steelcityman
Footballguy
I still think Freeman gets a shot in ATL. They might share time, but I would hardly hand over the starting job to Coleman, yet.
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RB Tevin Coleman, SF (1 Viewer)
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Shutout
Footballguy
Thinking you must be a long-time Freeman holder.
I'm not an owner and I don't plan to go after Coleman-just trying to be unbiased here but why would you draft a RB where they did if you thought at the end of the day that they would just continue with what they had? If you need depth, there are plenty of UDFA rbs out there. Heck, bring Pierre Thomas in or somebody that you KNOW very weel if you're that comfy with Freeman. So I think that indicates they are not and they spent a reasonably valuable pick to change that situation.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
Shutout
Footballguy
Good comp. Last year there was a lot of talk about how Mason couldn't block and this and that and it DID have an effect early. But, by the time the point comes when fantasy leagues are to be won or lost and going into the next season, Stacy was all but a forgotten player.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
RBBC maybe? Maybe they'll get each of them 150-200 carries. It's not like they spent a 1st round pick on Coleman. He went in the 3rd, Freeman was drafted in the 4th last year. Personally don't see either as anything great and certainly don't think either is a long term feature back.
Shutout
Footballguy
Yeah, I really don't see too much here that would make me think Coleman dominates carries. I think Kyle S. has shown flexibility to use it when you have it and don't sweat it when you don't. I guess it will depend if Coleman comes in and just takes the job by the throat. Who knows? But I'm sure he'll get an opportunity and if he isn't dominat, there should be a lot of situational ball being played with the RBS.
All that said, I wouldn't fault a person for drafting Coleman high, especially if they have Freeman because IF Coleman comes in and just does all those things right, he could be extremely valuable. No one really thought Alfred Morris would carve out as much a slice of the pie as he did but sometimes it happens.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
texasbirdfan
Footballguy
For certain RBBC. Freeman gets a shot for sure. The also have A. Smith back who was lethal last season. The whole running game goes up a couple notches with the newly installed zone blocking and more qb play action if the Oline can stay healthy after 2 years of unusual injuriy bugs.
Shutout
Footballguy
I always wonder how much of statements like that are genuine and how much of them are back-handed ways of pumping themselves up like they got a steal.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
I wouldn't take any media released statement at face value, but it's certainly plausible, in this case.
atl had one of the worst defenses in the league, last year, and their secondary is a wreck.
also, I could see 3 failed drug tests scare teams off investing a first round pick in somebody.
this is the nfl.com blurb on that corner
it could even be taken as a vote of confidence that they took coleman in the 3rd rather than another defensive player.
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Hankmoody
Footballguy
It will depend a lot on your owners drafting, but he's in play starting at 1.06. If those owners are the kind to fall in love with situation, this is one that could catch a fish.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I wasn't one of them, but I saw a lot of people list Coleman as the No. 3 RB in their pre-draft rankings - so I wouldn't put it all on situation if he's drafted in that range.Hankmoody said:
Braktastic
Footballguy
It seems like the smart thing to do would be to steer clear of RBs in round one after Gurley and Gordon are off the board, but it will be very hard to resist Coleman and Yeldon for RB needy teams like myself.Hankmoody said:
Uncle Grandpa
Footballguy
Agreed. Dude doesn't run patiently. Gets ball, makes quick twitch, and then shoots straight up field. If his own lineman is in the way, so be it. It's like his peripheral vision is 10 yards across. I recall the disaster that was D-Mac in Oakland when they tried to install the ZBS. Didn't fit his game at all.
Coincidentally, here's an article explaining the issue:
"For all McFadden’s athleticism — almost anyone would tell you he’s one of the most naturally-gifted athletes to come into the NFL since the dawn of the 21st century — he’s never had the patience for a zone-blocking scheme. In the ZBS, runners follow linemen. They wait for their blockers to move the pile laterally, creating running lanes for patient runners to exploit. They go left and right before going north and south.
That’s just not McFadden’s style, who for all his athletic prowess prefers to operate like a true power back, seeing the hole and hitting the hole. DMC likes to make one cut and get up field. He doesn’t like to read blocks. It’s this interfusion of aggression, power and athleticism that led him to an elite 5.3 yards per carry the two years Hue Jackson was employing a power-blocking scheme and calling the Raiders’ plays.
McFadden confirmed as much in an interview earlier this month. "I am the type of guy who likes to go downhill,make a cut and go; that's my thing," McFadden said as he explained his struggles in the ZBS. Why the Raiders didn’t heed this obvious truth last season will remain a mystery forever more."
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/43031/352/what-went-wrong-mcfadden
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Donnybrook
Footballguy
Obviously it was kinda of lost on people that Coleman measured in at the combine at 5'11" 206 lbs rather than 6'1" 206 lbs. That makes him closer to Lesean McCoy size than Darren Mcfadden but feel free to continue to knock him for his stature.
And his legs really look like twigs here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Zsr_FBvEdE I am surprised he doesn't just tip over - right?
And his legs really look like twigs here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Zsr_FBvEdE I am surprised he doesn't just tip over - right?
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Yea but that article was wrote in 2013 and they changed the scheme back to a power running scheme and DMC went for 3.3 and 3.4 YPC. Not of the opinion his struggles had to do with the scheme.
cstu
Footballguy
Here's the thing about Coleman - he's built like Demarco Murray but runs stiff like McFadden.
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
Very under-rated RB. He does run a bit high but is very tough through the hole and once he sees daylight goodbye.
This is a tough RB who can break off long runs like they're nothing. Probably not a 300 carry type guy, but can handle 225-270 with a high YPC.
got him as the 4th RB in the class behind Gurley/Gordon/Yeldon.
This is a tough RB who can break off long runs like they're nothing. Probably not a 300 carry type guy, but can handle 225-270 with a high YPC.
got him as the 4th RB in the class behind Gurley/Gordon/Yeldon.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
For dynasty purposes, Antone Smith turns 30 this year, so shouldn't be a long term obstacle.
I think Coleman could be seriously underrated. Just got caught up on the thread in the past few minutes.
1 - How many yards would he have had in Wisconsin?
2 - If he had blown scouts away at the combine (say, been the only one to run a sub-4.5?), might have gone higher.
3 - Played with a broken foot last year (final 1,200 yards?), tough, plays through pain.
4 - As noted upthread (Dr. Octopus?), Freeman was a fifth rounder picked by the old HC - though same GM.
5 - Shanahan is the new OC, he has turned other RBs into stars that may not have been as talented as Coleman.
6 - Will he ever see stacked boxes, on the same team with Ryan, Julio and White?
7 - Some may be laying off due to concern about Freeman (misplaced, imo), murky situations always tend to drive value down in early drafts, which can be exploited - if he beats out Freeman for lead back role, his value could surge closer to the start of the season.
Names like McFadden (ubiquitous comp) and Murray have been thrown around, but a more old school one I liked was Robert Smith. Though physical stature-wise, Smith was a lanky 6'2", 210 lbs., Coleman a thicker, stockier 5'11", 206 lbs. Smith had elite speed (Ohio State sprinter?), also an upright running style and a checkered medical file in the NFL.
Coleman had nearly 170 rushing yards per game, was fourth fastest to 2,000 yards in FBS/Div 1 history (264 carries) and his average TD distance (15 scores) was a ridiculous 40+ yards. Home run hitter that may be a little bigger and stronger than given credit for (he is narrow waisted and has a somewhat thin lower body, a concern, not sure lateral agility, contact balance or tackle breaking ability will ever be strengths - somewhat straightlinish, so I can see the McFadden comparisons there, along with the upright running style, which could always make him more vulnerable to injury, presenting a bigger target to defenders), some scouts think he is a functional receiver out of the backfield, with pass pro ability that could have three down, feature RB ability.
* Just got him at 1.13, as the fifth RB taken (also after Abdullah as well as Yeldon), and consider myself fortunate.
** What if (BIG IF) he could be a McFadden-like talent but more resilient with less injuries, or at least able to play through them at a higher level - how valuable would McFadden have been, as a healthier iteration in some parallel fantasy football universe? I see him as better than former Falcon Jerious Norwood (point taken he had a great Y/C average), though they have near identical triangle numbers (height/weight/40 time), physical stature and same third round pedigree. Norwood was always a complementary RB, and I don't think ever got a shot at being a feature RB, which it looks like Coleman might.
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ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
Ive seen the 5th round pick thrown around a couple times with regard to Freeman. Not that its all that important, but in the interest of accuracy he was a 4th round pick. I was pretty sure this was the case, but confirmed it with a Wikipedia search:Bob Magaw said:
"Devonta Freeman (born March 15, 1992) is an American football running back for the Atlanta Falcons of the National Football League (NFL). He was drafted by the Falcons in the fourth round of the 2014 NFL Draft. He played college football at Florida State."
So a 4th round pick vs a 3rd round pick is what this boils down to. I think that this somewhat mitigates the whole "draft spot" aspect of the discussion. This will shake out in camp, but with Freeman having a year in the NFL under his belt I think it is irresponsible to assume that Coleman walks into this job.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Thanks for the correction, I saw it upthread and noted it without vetting.
Agreed not as big a difference between third and fourth (compared to fifth).
Based on what I have seen, I wasn't that impressed with Freeman last year, and am far more so with Coleman. I think there is enough gap in talent that it will take precedence over Freeman's one year advantage. Is there risk that Freeman could win the job? Of course (which is why I phrased it, misplaced concerns, imo). I'm just not as worried about it because of the aforementioned gap in talent I see. I expect when things "shake out in camp", he has a good shot to emerge on top (and if not immediately, imo it is more of a matter of when, not if). Unfortunately, most don't have the luxury (at least in dynasty drafts) of waiting until the depth chart is more finalized and concrete. There is some risk, but if someone has conviction that his talent is more elevated than that of Freeman, than momentary current confusion about their respective roles (with ongoing drafts) and how the depth chart pecking order could eventually play out, could again be an opportunity to exploit. Because if he wins, his value could surge closer to the season. I don't see that as irresponsible if the risk is acknowledged, and scouting leads one to a judgement or decision that it is outweighed by the potential reward.
Agreed not as big a difference between third and fourth (compared to fifth).
Based on what I have seen, I wasn't that impressed with Freeman last year, and am far more so with Coleman. I think there is enough gap in talent that it will take precedence over Freeman's one year advantage. Is there risk that Freeman could win the job? Of course (which is why I phrased it, misplaced concerns, imo). I'm just not as worried about it because of the aforementioned gap in talent I see. I expect when things "shake out in camp", he has a good shot to emerge on top (and if not immediately, imo it is more of a matter of when, not if). Unfortunately, most don't have the luxury (at least in dynasty drafts) of waiting until the depth chart is more finalized and concrete. There is some risk, but if someone has conviction that his talent is more elevated than that of Freeman, than momentary current confusion about their respective roles (with ongoing drafts) and how the depth chart pecking order could eventually play out, could again be an opportunity to exploit. Because if he wins, his value could surge closer to the season. I don't see that as irresponsible if the risk is acknowledged, and scouting leads one to a judgement or decision that it is outweighed by the potential reward.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
In regards to the draft position comparison between Tevin Coleman and Devonta Freeman.
2014 draft
2 54 TEN Bishop Sankey RB 22
2 55 CIN Jeremy Hill RB 21
2 57 SFO Carlos Hyde RB 24
3 69 TAM Charles Sims RB 24
3 75 STL Tre Mason RB 21
3 94 CLE Terrance West RB 23
3 96 MIN Jerick McKinnon RB 22
4 103 ATL Devonta Freeman RB 22
4 113 NYG Andre Williams RB 22
4 117 CHI Ka'Deem Carey RB 21
4 124 KAN De'Anthony Thomas 21
4 130 NWE James White RB 23
4 138 BAL Lorenzo Taliaferro 22
6 181 HOU Alfred Blue RB 23
6 186 WAS Lache Seastrunk RB 23
6 201 SDG Marion Grice RB 23
6 204 CAR Tyler Gaffney RB 23
7 222 JAX Storm Johnson RB 22
7 227 SEA Kiero Small RB 25
Freeman was the 8th RB selected. He was the first RB selected in the fourth round.
He was picked 9 spots after Terrance West and 7 spots after Jerrick McKinnon.
Andre Williams was picked 10 spots after Freeman so he is about as close to West/McKinnon in draft position as he was to Williams.
1 10 STL Todd Gurley RB 21
1 15 SDG Melvin Gordon RB 22
2 36 JAX T.J. Yeldon RB 21
2 54 DET Ameer Abdullah RB 22
3 73 ATL Tevin Coleman RB 22
3 77 CLE Duke Johnson RB 21
3 86 ARI David Johnson RB 23
3 95 WAS Matt Jones RB
4 106 CHI Jeremy Langford RB 23
4 125 BAL Javorius Allen RB 24
4 126 SFO Mike Davis RB 22
5 138 TEN David Cobb RB 22
5 149 MIA Jay Ajayi RB 21
5 155 BUF Karlos Williams RB 22
5 174 CAR Cameron Artis-Payne 23
6 205 IND Josh Robinson RB 23
7 230 NOR Marcus Murphy RB
7 235 HOU Kenny Hilliard RB 23
Coleeman was the fifth RB selected. He was the first RB selected in the third round.
He was picked 19 spots after Ameer Abdullah.
Duke Johnson was picked four spots after Coleeman. David Johnson was picked 13 spots after Coleman so he is as closer to the two Johnsons in draft position as he was to Ameer Abdullah.
If we combine draft position of the two draft classes:
1 10 STL Todd Gurley RB 21
1 15 SDG Melvin Gordon RB 22
2 36 JAX T.J. Yeldon RB 21
2 54 DET Ameer Abdullah RB 22
2 54 TEN Bishop Sankey RB 22
2 55 CIN Jeremy Hill RB 21
2 57 SFO Carlos Hyde RB 24
3 69 TAM Charles Sims RB 24
3 73 ATL Tevin Coleman RB 22
3 75 STL Tre Mason RB 21
3 77 CLE Duke Johnson RB 21
3 86 ARI David Johnson RB 23
3 94 CLE Terrance West RB 23
3 95 WAS Matt Jones RB
3 96 MIN Jerick McKinnon RB 22
4 103 ATL Devonta Freeman RB 22
4 106 CHI Jeremy Langford RB 23
4 113 NYG Andre Williams RB 22
4 117 CHI Ka'Deem Carey RB 21
4 124 KAN De'Anthony Thomas 21
4 125 BAL Javorius Allen RB 24
4 126 SFO Mike Davis RB 22
4 130 NWE James White RB 23
4 138 BAL Lorenzo Taliaferro 22
5 138 TEN David Cobb RB 22
5 149 MIA Jay Ajayi RB 21
5 155 BUF Karlos Williams RB 22
5 174 CAR Cameron Artis-Payne 23
6 181 HOU Alfred Blue RB 23
6 186 WAS Lache Seastrunk RB 23
6 201 SDG Marion Grice RB 23
6 204 CAR Tyler Gaffney RB 23
6 205 IND Josh Robinson RB 23
7 222 JAX Storm Johnson RB 22
7 227 SEA Kiero Small RB 25
Tevin Coleman is sandwiched between Chales Sims and Tre Mason. Freeman between Jerrick McKinnon and Jeremy Langford.
Here are all of the RB drafted from 1989-2014 who were picked within 10 picks before or after pick 73 where Coleman was drafted:
Brandon Jackson
Jay Graham
Kevin Smith
Detron Smith
James Jackson
Frank Gore
Shonn Greene
Ronnie Hillman
Skip Hicks
Charles Sims
Elroy Harris
Duce Staley
Lorenzo Booker
DeMarco Murray
Tevin Coleman
Russell White
Lamar Smith
Winslow Oliver
Vernand Morency
Jamaal Charles
Stevan Ridley
Curtis Martin HOF
Brian Calhoun
Glen Coffee
Moe Williams
Tre Mason
Robert Drummond
Ricky Ervins
Ahman Green
J.R. Redmond
Musa Smith
Ryan Moats
Terry Kirby
Jerious Norwood
Robert Wilson
Calvin Jones
Karim Abdul-Jabbar
Kevan Barlow
Chris Floyd
Reuben Droughns
James Bostic
Jerald Moore
Here are all of the RB drafted from 1989-2014 who were picked within 10 picks before or after pick 103 where Devonta Freeman was drafted:
Lewis Tillman
Chris Brown
Garrett Wolfe
Derrick Lassic
Terrance West
Gary Downs
Michael Pittman
Amos Zereoue
Alex Green
Knile Davis
Jerick McKinnon
Curvin Richards
Curtis Keaton
Lamar Miller
Dri Archer
Jonathan Wells
Artose Pinner
Eddie Fuller
Rudi Johnson
Michael Bush
Tavian Banks
Domanick Williams
Maurice Clarett
Stephen Davis
Edgar Bennett
Larry Jones
Ricky Whittle
Sedrick Irvin
Devonta Freeman
Aaron Hayden
Leon Johnson
Darnell Autry
Onterrio Smith
Roy Helu
Robert Turbin
Antonio Pittman
George Layne
Quentin Griffin
Derek Brown
Marion Barber
Brandon Jacobs
Dwayne Wright
Mike Goodson
Jon Vaughn
Sean Bennett
Ciatrick Fason
Joe McKnight
Maury Toy
Andre Williams
2014 draft
2 54 TEN Bishop Sankey RB 22
2 55 CIN Jeremy Hill RB 21
2 57 SFO Carlos Hyde RB 24
3 69 TAM Charles Sims RB 24
3 75 STL Tre Mason RB 21
3 94 CLE Terrance West RB 23
3 96 MIN Jerick McKinnon RB 22
4 103 ATL Devonta Freeman RB 22
4 113 NYG Andre Williams RB 22
4 117 CHI Ka'Deem Carey RB 21
4 124 KAN De'Anthony Thomas 21
4 130 NWE James White RB 23
4 138 BAL Lorenzo Taliaferro 22
6 181 HOU Alfred Blue RB 23
6 186 WAS Lache Seastrunk RB 23
6 201 SDG Marion Grice RB 23
6 204 CAR Tyler Gaffney RB 23
7 222 JAX Storm Johnson RB 22
7 227 SEA Kiero Small RB 25
Freeman was the 8th RB selected. He was the first RB selected in the fourth round.
He was picked 9 spots after Terrance West and 7 spots after Jerrick McKinnon.
Andre Williams was picked 10 spots after Freeman so he is about as close to West/McKinnon in draft position as he was to Williams.
1 10 STL Todd Gurley RB 21
1 15 SDG Melvin Gordon RB 22
2 36 JAX T.J. Yeldon RB 21
2 54 DET Ameer Abdullah RB 22
3 73 ATL Tevin Coleman RB 22
3 77 CLE Duke Johnson RB 21
3 86 ARI David Johnson RB 23
3 95 WAS Matt Jones RB
4 106 CHI Jeremy Langford RB 23
4 125 BAL Javorius Allen RB 24
4 126 SFO Mike Davis RB 22
5 138 TEN David Cobb RB 22
5 149 MIA Jay Ajayi RB 21
5 155 BUF Karlos Williams RB 22
5 174 CAR Cameron Artis-Payne 23
6 205 IND Josh Robinson RB 23
7 230 NOR Marcus Murphy RB
7 235 HOU Kenny Hilliard RB 23
Coleeman was the fifth RB selected. He was the first RB selected in the third round.
He was picked 19 spots after Ameer Abdullah.
Duke Johnson was picked four spots after Coleeman. David Johnson was picked 13 spots after Coleman so he is as closer to the two Johnsons in draft position as he was to Ameer Abdullah.
If we combine draft position of the two draft classes:
1 10 STL Todd Gurley RB 21
1 15 SDG Melvin Gordon RB 22
2 36 JAX T.J. Yeldon RB 21
2 54 DET Ameer Abdullah RB 22
2 54 TEN Bishop Sankey RB 22
2 55 CIN Jeremy Hill RB 21
2 57 SFO Carlos Hyde RB 24
3 69 TAM Charles Sims RB 24
3 73 ATL Tevin Coleman RB 22
3 75 STL Tre Mason RB 21
3 77 CLE Duke Johnson RB 21
3 86 ARI David Johnson RB 23
3 94 CLE Terrance West RB 23
3 95 WAS Matt Jones RB
3 96 MIN Jerick McKinnon RB 22
4 103 ATL Devonta Freeman RB 22
4 106 CHI Jeremy Langford RB 23
4 113 NYG Andre Williams RB 22
4 117 CHI Ka'Deem Carey RB 21
4 124 KAN De'Anthony Thomas 21
4 125 BAL Javorius Allen RB 24
4 126 SFO Mike Davis RB 22
4 130 NWE James White RB 23
4 138 BAL Lorenzo Taliaferro 22
5 138 TEN David Cobb RB 22
5 149 MIA Jay Ajayi RB 21
5 155 BUF Karlos Williams RB 22
5 174 CAR Cameron Artis-Payne 23
6 181 HOU Alfred Blue RB 23
6 186 WAS Lache Seastrunk RB 23
6 201 SDG Marion Grice RB 23
6 204 CAR Tyler Gaffney RB 23
6 205 IND Josh Robinson RB 23
7 222 JAX Storm Johnson RB 22
7 227 SEA Kiero Small RB 25
Tevin Coleman is sandwiched between Chales Sims and Tre Mason. Freeman between Jerrick McKinnon and Jeremy Langford.
Here are all of the RB drafted from 1989-2014 who were picked within 10 picks before or after pick 73 where Coleman was drafted:
Brandon Jackson
Jay Graham
Kevin Smith
Detron Smith
James Jackson
Frank Gore
Shonn Greene
Ronnie Hillman
Skip Hicks
Charles Sims
Elroy Harris
Duce Staley
Lorenzo Booker
DeMarco Murray
Tevin Coleman
Russell White
Lamar Smith
Winslow Oliver
Vernand Morency
Jamaal Charles
Stevan Ridley
Curtis Martin HOF
Brian Calhoun
Glen Coffee
Moe Williams
Tre Mason
Robert Drummond
Ricky Ervins
Ahman Green
J.R. Redmond
Musa Smith
Ryan Moats
Terry Kirby
Jerious Norwood
Robert Wilson
Calvin Jones
Karim Abdul-Jabbar
Kevan Barlow
Chris Floyd
Reuben Droughns
James Bostic
Jerald Moore
Here are all of the RB drafted from 1989-2014 who were picked within 10 picks before or after pick 103 where Devonta Freeman was drafted:
Lewis Tillman
Chris Brown
Garrett Wolfe
Derrick Lassic
Terrance West
Gary Downs
Michael Pittman
Amos Zereoue
Alex Green
Knile Davis
Jerick McKinnon
Curvin Richards
Curtis Keaton
Lamar Miller
Dri Archer
Jonathan Wells
Artose Pinner
Eddie Fuller
Rudi Johnson
Michael Bush
Tavian Banks
Domanick Williams
Maurice Clarett
Stephen Davis
Edgar Bennett
Larry Jones
Ricky Whittle
Sedrick Irvin
Devonta Freeman
Aaron Hayden
Leon Johnson
Darnell Autry
Onterrio Smith
Roy Helu
Robert Turbin
Antonio Pittman
George Layne
Quentin Griffin
Derek Brown
Marion Barber
Brandon Jacobs
Dwayne Wright
Mike Goodson
Jon Vaughn
Sean Bennett
Ciatrick Fason
Joe McKnight
Maury Toy
Andre Williams
Unwrittenlaw
Footballguy
Do you think it's a red flag Tevin Coleman never did the 3 cone, vert, and broad jump? I"m looking at the top RBs now and past and almost ALL of them performed these drills at the combine.
Jeremy's Spoken
Footballguy
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Definite knack for breaking long runs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r32w8hF9PTM
Freeman and Antone Smith had just 88 carries COMBINED between them in 2014.
https://www.numberfire.com/nfl/news/5113/tevin-coleman-to-the-atlanta-falcons-these-birds-just-got-explosive
"Both backs figure to share time with Coleman and contribute to the Falcons' passing attack, but Coleman should be able to win the starting job and be the workhorse back early in season, if not by Week 1."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r32w8hF9PTM
Freeman and Antone Smith had just 88 carries COMBINED between them in 2014.
https://www.numberfire.com/nfl/news/5113/tevin-coleman-to-the-atlanta-falcons-these-birds-just-got-explosive
"Both backs figure to share time with Coleman and contribute to the Falcons' passing attack, but Coleman should be able to win the starting job and be the workhorse back early in season, if not by Week 1."
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JohnnyU
Footballguy
He's being taken ahead of Abdullah and Ajayi in most leagues and head of Yeldon in some, so I don't think he's being underrated at all.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Bia, while that's interesting stuff, I'm just not sure how to value it. I might be misremembering, but it seems last year's draft was on the whole, a lot stronger than this year's. At least a few players who were drafted last year would likely have gone higher in this year's draft. It's entirely possible that Freeman would have gone in the 3rd this year.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Bia, while that's interesting stuff, I'm just not sure how to value it. I might be misremembering, but it seems last year's draft was on the whole, a lot stronger than this year's. At least a few players who were drafted last year would likely have gone higher in this year's draft. It's entirely possible that Freeman would have gone in the 3rd this year.
As I already pointed out Freeman was the 8th RB selected in the 2014 draft class. The 2015 RB class was valued more than the 2014 class as evidenced by the two 1st round selections. Also TJ Yeldon was selected (pick 36) significantly higher than Sankey, Hill or Hyde. This is why I showed the full 2014-2015 RB lists combined in hopes that this would be made clear.
Considering that Gurley, Gordon and Yeldon were all selected by at least 18 slots before the first RB was picked in 2014 that makes Colemans draft position relative to the 2014 class to be just before Tre Mason was selected means that Coleman would have been the fifth RB selected in 2014 compared to Freeman who was the 8th RB selected in 2014.
So I do not see the logic behind how Freeman would have been selected in the 3rd round of the 2015 draft? He was the 8th RB selected in 2014 draft which was clearly a weaker RB group (by draft position) than 2015 .By draft position Freeman would have been the 9th overall RB in 2015 draft, not the 8th.
Now you seem to be suggesting that the 2015 draft class is weaker overall than the 2014 class? That would require a deeper evaluation. I think in some areas like offensive line, safety, tight end and wide receiver, that the 2014 draft class was a stronger group. But the 2015 draft class is stronger at running back defensive line. In any case I don't really see how Freeman would have been drafted even at the end of round three in the 2015 draft class because there were eight running backs selected higher than Freeman was in 2015
steelcityman
Footballguy
If you had Freeman, and Coleman was there when you picked(not a top 3 pick), would you take him and hope to fill any other holes later or in trades?
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bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
I noticed later you already answered with something more substantive than my behind above, or I wouldn't have asked.
Post #120 - "Couple his upright running style and twig legs, I see a Red Cross in his future."
He does have an upright running style (so did the taller Dickerson, but it is true scouts don't consider it ideal), twigs might be a slight exaggeration, but he doesn't have mammoth, three trunk, Robert Newhouse, Theotis Brown (couldn't wear off the rack slacks, as his thigh size was bigger than his waist!!
), Earl Campbell legs, and he has been injured, in 2013 and a broken foot in 2014, which is why he wasn't able to participate in most of the combine. It is to his credit that he toughed it out and played through pain last year, but the injury pattern (not sure if it extends to prep days?) is a concern. OTOH, I wonder if he would have done even better last year, in by all accounts a stellar year, if no foot injury?Anyways, glad I asked, because I haven't looked at too much ADP data yet. In my league that I took him, he went after Abdullah and Yeldon, though before Ajayi. Abdullah went in the in the mid-second, Yeldon early second and Coleman early third, so that fits based on pedigree (and expected opportunity). Ajayi went in the fifth, and there was talk that he may have a bone-on-bone condition, which would explain his precipitous drop in the actual draft, and may cause him to fall below the trio above in current dynasty drafts.
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Shutout
Footballguy
Freudian slip or autocorrect?I noticed later you already answered with something more substantive than my behind above, or I wouldn't have asked.
Post #120 - "Couple his upright running style and twig legs, I see a Red Cross in his future."
He does have an upright running style (so did the taller Dickerson, but it is true scouts don't consider it ideal), twigs might be a slight exaggeration, but he doesn't have mammoth, three trunk, Robert Newhouse, Theotis Brown (couldn't wear off the rack slacks, as his thigh size was bigger than his waist!!
Anyways, glad I asked, because I haven't looked at too much ADP data yet. In my league that I took him, he went after Abdullah and Yeldon, though before Ajayi. Abdullah went in the in the mid-second, Yeldon early second and Coleman early third, so that fits based on pedigree (and expected opportunity). Ajayi went in the fifth, and there was talk that he may have a bone-on-bone condition, which would explain his precipitous drop in the actual draft, and may cause him to fall below the trio above in current dynasty drafts.
werdnoynek
Footballguy
Interesting. Coleman in a zone scheme is a pretty polarizing topic. Some feel it would be why he succeeds. Some feel it would be why he fails.Faust said:
I think the main question here will be if he has the patience to be successful in it. They mentioned McFadden in the article... a guy who couldn't handle being patient.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
I don't think they'd have made this pick without Shanahan signing off on his fit in the ZBS.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Is it possible that the lack of visual evidence of Coleman displaying elusiveness in his last season was due in part to him playing with a toe injury?
To make extreme cuts you need to be able to plant hard and push off. This may have been something he wanted to do more, but didn't because of the pain and perhaps a lack of confidence in such moves being effective in his condition.
The Shanahan ZBS generally didn't need an ankle breaker to be effective. Just a RB who can press the hole then cut at the right moment when the blocking presents an opening. Even Ron Dayne was effective in this type of system.
I think it is more about vision and timing. Which are traits I think Tevin Coleman has.
To make extreme cuts you need to be able to plant hard and push off. This may have been something he wanted to do more, but didn't because of the pain and perhaps a lack of confidence in such moves being effective in his condition.
The Shanahan ZBS generally didn't need an ankle breaker to be effective. Just a RB who can press the hole then cut at the right moment when the blocking presents an opening. Even Ron Dayne was effective in this type of system.
I think it is more about vision and timing. Which are traits I think Tevin Coleman has.
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Bob Magaw
Footballguy
I guess you could look at some of the early games before he hurt his toe in order to help make that determination, but I suspect what you would find is he isn't as elusive.
I kind of agree with what you are saying, I was just addressing the point because sometimes expectations are built on comps. I see why the speed comparison was made, and that should serve him similarly well in the NFL. He could still succeed, even at a high level, but it may be for different reasons than Portis did, if the comp breaks down there, and he isn't as elusive.
* BTW, I did see a degree of elusiveness in the open field, but I thought Portis was far more natural in short areas, juking defenders in a phone booth.
I kind of agree with what you are saying, I was just addressing the point because sometimes expectations are built on comps. I see why the speed comparison was made, and that should serve him similarly well in the NFL. He could still succeed, even at a high level, but it may be for different reasons than Portis did, if the comp breaks down there, and he isn't as elusive.
* BTW, I did see a degree of elusiveness in the open field, but I thought Portis was far more natural in short areas, juking defenders in a phone booth.
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Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
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VarsityBlues123
Footballguy
call me the minority but a rb coming of a surgically repaired toe is a huge red flag to stay away from for me at his price.
buck naked
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I have 6 and 10 in different leagues. I don't see taking him 6, but I'm all over him at 10.
