Tre Mason (1 Viewer)

[monk]

Alot of people seem to think because Mason is much more talented than Stacy, i don't see it.

He's a good back but i don't see a special back in there.

That's because you own Stacy.

I agree with Brewtown ... as usual people are over thinking the situation.

If Fantasy Football did not exist there would be nothing to discuss here .... 90% of us would all agree that Mason is more talented then Stacy.

Stacy was a 5th round pick with limited talent. He ended up in a perfect situation but still only put up OK numbers.

Tre Mason would have been a 1st or 2nd round talent if RBs had not been so devalued ... put him in the same situation that Stacy was in last year and you will see some excellent all around #s

I disagree with most everything you said here and I think Mason is the best back in this years' class. That is because I think Stacy was the best back in last years' class and Mason would not have had any better numbers. Given the circumstances, I think Stacy performance was impressive. If Bradford starts as he did last year, Stacy's job will be that much easier. The Rams have added Britt, and Givens was non-existent without Bradley, and Austin is a year wiser. I think Stacy is a top 15 lock with top 5 potential.

wut

Top 5 isn't as special as it used to be when 300 carry backs were common. Moreno snuck in there last year. You either have to be a special player (5 ypc, 9 ypr), heavily used in the receiving game, or a goal line back. 1500 combined yards and 15 touchdowns should do the trick. From weeks 5-16, Stacy was on pace for 1559/12. With an improved line and better offense, it isn't a stretch of the imagination.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not predicting a top 5 finish, just pointing out that it isn't as special as you think. He would need health, over 300 total touches, and plenty of goal line work. Plus, there's usually an injury or two to the guys you are expecting to finish top 5.

That would also mean 375 touches which is not going to happen and it would also mean that his worst game of the season never happened ... but it did.

So yes it is a stretch

 

[Mr Non Sequitur]

Let's try to separate fact from fiction as this seems like a tug of war between Stacy and potential Mason owners. I'll go thru some facts before I state my opinion here.

Stacy

Fact: Stacy entered ino last year's camp with a battle between he and Daryl Richardson who had shown some flashes the year prior in St Louis competing with Steven Jackson who left for Atlanta. Stacy is 5-9 and about 215/220, pretty nice frame and build for a lead RB in this league. I always like the LT frame of about 5-10/220, Stacy is about an inch short but many have done well in this league at about his size.

Fact: Stacy started 12 games for St louis coming up just short of 1,000 yds rushing and 7 rushing TDs. He had a ypc of 3.9 which is low in this league for an "impact back" if that is what you are looking for.

Fact: Stacy enters camp as the RB1 on the depth charts. Stacy was drafted in the 5th round out of the NFL training ground SEC, in this case Vanderbilt but still he saw a lot of NFL prospects on defense he faced.

Mason

Fact: Was drafted in the 3rd round out of Auburn. Mason had a sensational Senior season rushing for 1,800 yards and 23 Touchdowns!!! Sorry but that needs a triple exclamation point. He did all this at the Univ of Auburn en route to one of the most amazing seasons coming up just short against FSU in the big bowl.

Fact: He is listed anywhere form 5-8 to 5-10, that means he is probably covering up the fact he is short. 205? Perhaps but he could use some added pounds if he is going to touch the ball a lot in the NFL.

Fact: His father was/is part of the musical group, De la Soul

Fact: Mason runs about a 4.5 in the 40 but has been clocked anywhere from the 4.4s to 4.6s He is not Chris Johnson fast but it seems he can excelerate and move when he needs to. If he was running a 4.4 consistently I believe he would have been gone in the 2nd round.

Opinion: Mason carried the ball over 300 times as a Senior in only a 12 game season. He can touch the ball 15-20 times a game in the NFL and I believe the Rams will find ways to get him involved in the offense. I don't believe he comes in week 1 and tosses Stacy to the side. i don't believe Mason will be running the game clock out when the Rams are ahead, that falls on Stacy for now.

I do think Mason can be the lightning in the offense and on a team that lacks playmakers, I see him taking on a Giovani Bernard role here. Problem is we don't really know if Mason can catch the ball. He didn't do a lot of it in college.

Things I don't like about Mason or have questions about...8 fumbles the last 2 years, he is a little small but we have seen other small backs like Rice, MJD, many others do some damage. He is bigger than those backs but he lacks ideal size for now. Spread offense in college, great OL, he hd a nice supporting cast there.

Bottom Line: I like him to have an impact, more than Stacy owners want to admit or talk about. He was not drafted in the 3rd round to never be used IMO. He will have a few games that really get the focus of FF owners during the year and I think he will lay the tracks for a big chunk of this offense come 2015. He has speed and can make plays, I think he will be given 10-12 touches a game in the beginning, nothing over the top. Nice flex guy to have you can grab right now for peanuts. I like the asking price.

I still think Stacy will be the guy but he might be at about 240 carries for the season, still plenty for Mason to gobble up maybe 160 carries. Room for both I feel.

 

[msommer]

And with that post Mr Non Sequitur joins the Mason camp

Bottom line: No one has seen Mason pass block a rushing NFL player in even a preseason game (for obvious reasons).

Let's see him handle that and then decide on his potential for 2014 and possibly beyond

 

[Nero]

And with that post Mr Non Sequitur joins the Mason camp

Bottom line: No one has seen Mason pass block a rushing NFL player in even a preseason game (for obvious reasons).

Let's see him handle that and then decide on his potential for 2014 and possibly beyond

Fact

 

[Mr Non Sequitur]

And with that post Mr Non Sequitur joins the Mason camp

Bottom line: No one has seen Mason pass block a rushing NFL player in even a preseason game (for obvious reasons).

Let's see him handle that and then decide on his potential for 2014 and possibly beyond

And I completely dismissed Benny Cunningham who is running with the 1st team, Mason is running with the 2nd along with Pead.

You bring up an excellent point and one that prevents many from seeing the field at RB, the ever looming pass blocking skills.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Let's try to separate fact from fiction as this seems like a tug of war between Stacy and potential Mason owners. I'll go thru some facts before I state my opinion here.

Stacy

Fact: Stacy entered ino last year's camp with a battle between he and Daryl Richardson who had shown some flashes the year prior in St Louis competing with Steven Jackson who left for Atlanta. Stacy is 5-9 and about 215/220, pretty nice frame and build for a lead RB in this league. I always like the LT frame of about 5-10/220, Stacy is about an inch short but many have done well in this league at about his size.

Fact: Stacy started 12 games for St louis coming up just short of 1,000 yds rushing and 7 rushing TDs. He had a ypc of 3.9 which is low in this league for an "impact back" if that is what you are looking for.

Fact: Stacy enters camp as the RB1 on the depth charts. Stacy was drafted in the 5th round out of the NFL training ground SEC, in this case Vanderbilt but still he saw a lot of NFL prospects on defense he faced.

Mason

Fact: Was drafted in the 3rd round out of Auburn. Mason had a sensational Senior season rushing for 1,800 yards and 23 Touchdowns!!! Sorry but that needs a triple exclamation point. He did all this at the Univ of Auburn en route to one of the most amazing seasons coming up just short against FSU in the big bowl.

Fact: He is listed anywhere form 5-8 to 5-10, that means he is probably covering up the fact he is short. 205? Perhaps but he could use some added pounds if he is going to touch the ball a lot in the NFL.

Fact: His father was/is part of the musical group, De la Soul

Fact: Mason runs about a 4.5 in the 40 but has been clocked anywhere from the 4.4s to 4.6s He is not Chris Johnson fast but it seems he can excelerate and move when he needs to. If he was running a 4.4 consistently I believe he would have been gone in the 2nd round.

Opinion: Mason carried the ball over 300 times as a Senior in only a 12 game season. He can touch the ball 15-20 times a game in the NFL and I believe the Rams will find ways to get him involved in the offense. I don't believe he comes in week 1 and tosses Stacy to the side. i don't believe Mason will be running the game clock out when the Rams are ahead, that falls on Stacy for now.

I do think Mason can be the lightning in the offense and on a team that lacks playmakers, I see him taking on a Giovani Bernard role here. Problem is we don't really know if Mason can catch the ball. He didn't do a lot of it in college.

Things I don't like about Mason or have questions about...8 fumbles the last 2 years, he is a little small but we have seen other small backs like Rice, MJD, many others do some damage. He is bigger than those backs but he lacks ideal size for now. Spread offense in college, great OL, he hd a nice supporting cast there.

Bottom Line: I like him to have an impact, more than Stacy owners want to admit or talk about. He was not drafted in the 3rd round to never be used IMO. He will have a few games that really get the focus of FF owners during the year and I think he will lay the tracks for a big chunk of this offense come 2015. He has speed and can make plays, I think he will be given 10-12 touches a game in the beginning, nothing over the top. Nice flex guy to have you can grab right now for peanuts. I like the asking price.

I still think Stacy will be the guy but he might be at about 240 carries for the season, still plenty for Mason to gobble up maybe 160 carries. Room for both I feel.

Stacy is currently listed at about 225 lbs., he has gotten bigger since entering the league. As to his 3.9 yard per carry average, Tomlinson's was 3.6 as a rookie. There are plenty of other examples where RBs that did very well had a similar average as rookies. He led the SEC in rushing on a team that wasn't as good as Auburn. He ran a 4.53 40.

Mason measured 5'8", 208 lbs. at the combine. He clocked a 4.50. Bernard is expected to be the lead RB in CIN, despite being nearly 30 lbs. lighter than Hill. He may get about 12-15 carries a game, but augment that with 60-70 receptions. Mason is unlikely to do that, and therefore have that kind of role, imo, even if he is a competent pass catcher. Bernard excels in this area.

I think Stacy gets more than 240 carries (15 per game) this season, health permitting. I agree Mason's third round pedigree is intriguing, and don't think he will never be used either, but it is hard to say he will get a big chunk of the offense in 2015 at this point. If Stacy improves on his rookie season, and looks like the better blocker for instance, Mason could have the lesser role in a RBBC for the foreseeable future.

Of course, if Stacy is injured, or Mason looks noticeably more explosive with an appreciably superior yards per carry average and handles all his blocking and pass catching assignments, that could change.

 

[Todem]

Talent and situation. Mason has both. Mason is clearly a big time play maker and capable of putting up insane PPR numbers in an offense starving for big plays.

Stacy was decent last year and showed he is capable of giving a team blue collar like results. Tre Mason IMO will find his way into this offense and long term is a far better RB prospect for the Rams. They took a bonafide super star from Auburn an SEC conference team that plays against NFL like defenses.

Look for Mason to become more and more the main focal point of The Rams over the course of this season and beyond. Size is a concern, but give him a full NFL off-season and going into his second year I think he will be one of the highest sought after dynasty RB's.

Redraft? Rounds 8-12 flyer in PPR.

Dynasty rookie drafts? Top 7 pick IMO.

 

[Todem]

Let's try to separate fact from fiction as this seems like a tug of war between Stacy and potential Mason owners. I'll go thru some facts before I state my opinion here.

Stacy

Fact: Stacy entered ino last year's camp with a battle between he and Daryl Richardson who had shown some flashes the year prior in St Louis competing with Steven Jackson who left for Atlanta. Stacy is 5-9 and about 215/220, pretty nice frame and build for a lead RB in this league. I always like the LT frame of about 5-10/220, Stacy is about an inch short but many have done well in this league at about his size.

Fact: Stacy started 12 games for St louis coming up just short of 1,000 yds rushing and 7 rushing TDs. He had a ypc of 3.9 which is low in this league for an "impact back" if that is what you are looking for.

Fact: Stacy enters camp as the RB1 on the depth charts. Stacy was drafted in the 5th round out of the NFL training ground SEC, in this case Vanderbilt but still he saw a lot of NFL prospects on defense he faced.

Mason

Fact: Was drafted in the 3rd round out of Auburn. Mason had a sensational Senior season rushing for 1,800 yards and 23 Touchdowns!!! Sorry but that needs a triple exclamation point. He did all this at the Univ of Auburn en route to one of the most amazing seasons coming up just short against FSU in the big bowl.

Fact: He is listed anywhere form 5-8 to 5-10, that means he is probably covering up the fact he is short. 205? Perhaps but he could use some added pounds if he is going to touch the ball a lot in the NFL.

Fact: His father was/is part of the musical group, De la Soul

Fact: Mason runs about a 4.5 in the 40 but has been clocked anywhere from the 4.4s to 4.6s He is not Chris Johnson fast but it seems he can excelerate and move when he needs to. If he was running a 4.4 consistently I believe he would have been gone in the 2nd round.

Opinion: Mason carried the ball over 300 times as a Senior in only a 12 game season. He can touch the ball 15-20 times a game in the NFL and I believe the Rams will find ways to get him involved in the offense. I don't believe he comes in week 1 and tosses Stacy to the side. i don't believe Mason will be running the game clock out when the Rams are ahead, that falls on Stacy for now.

I do think Mason can be the lightning in the offense and on a team that lacks playmakers, I see him taking on a Giovani Bernard role here. Problem is we don't really know if Mason can catch the ball. He didn't do a lot of it in college.

Things I don't like about Mason or have questions about...8 fumbles the last 2 years, he is a little small but we have seen other small backs like Rice, MJD, many others do some damage. He is bigger than those backs but he lacks ideal size for now. Spread offense in college, great OL, he hd a nice supporting cast there.

Bottom Line: I like him to have an impact, more than Stacy owners want to admit or talk about. He was not drafted in the 3rd round to never be used IMO. He will have a few games that really get the focus of FF owners during the year and I think he will lay the tracks for a big chunk of this offense come 2015. He has speed and can make plays, I think he will be given 10-12 touches a game in the beginning, nothing over the top. Nice flex guy to have you can grab right now for peanuts. I like the asking price.

I still think Stacy will be the guy but he might be at about 240 carries for the season, still plenty for Mason to gobble up maybe 160 carries. Room for both I feel.

Stacy is currently listed at about 225 lbs., he has gotten bigger since entering the league. As to his 3.9 yard per carry average, Tomlinson's was 3.6 as a rookie. There are plenty of other examples where RBs that did very well had a similar average as rookies. He led the SEC in rushing on a team that wasn't as good as Auburn. He ran a 4.53 40.

Mason measured 5'8", 208 lbs. at the combine. He clocked a 4.50. Bernard is expected to be the lead RB in CIN, despite being nearly 30 lbs. lighter than Hill. He may get about 12-15 carries a game, but augment that with 60-70 receptions. Mason is unlikely to do that, and therefore have that kind of role, imo, even if he is a competent pass catcher. Bernard excels in this area.

I think Stacy gets more than 240 carries (15 per game) this season, health permitting. I agree Mason's third round pedigree is intriguing, and don't think he will never be used either, but it is hard to say he will get a big chunk of the offense in 2015 at this point. If Stacy improves on his rookie season, and looks like the better blocker for instance, Mason could have the lesser role in a RBBC for the foreseeable future.

Of course, if Stacy is injured, or Mason looks noticeably more explosive with an appreciably superior yards per carry average and handles all his blocking and pass catching assignments, that could change.

With all due respect. Stacy does not run like LT.

I don't care what YPC say. What does the kid look like on the field. He is not anywhere close to LT. Tomlinson was a once in a decade RB like ADP.

 

[Mr Non Sequitur]

Let's try to separate fact from fiction as this seems like a tug of war between Stacy and potential Mason owners. I'll go thru some facts before I state my opinion here.

Stacy

Fact: Stacy entered ino last year's camp with a battle between he and Daryl Richardson who had shown some flashes the year prior in St Louis competing with Steven Jackson who left for Atlanta. Stacy is 5-9 and about 215/220, pretty nice frame and build for a lead RB in this league. I always like the LT frame of about 5-10/220, Stacy is about an inch short but many have done well in this league at about his size.

Fact: Stacy started 12 games for St louis coming up just short of 1,000 yds rushing and 7 rushing TDs. He had a ypc of 3.9 which is low in this league for an "impact back" if that is what you are looking for.

Fact: Stacy enters camp as the RB1 on the depth charts. Stacy was drafted in the 5th round out of the NFL training ground SEC, in this case Vanderbilt but still he saw a lot of NFL prospects on defense he faced.

Mason

Fact: Was drafted in the 3rd round out of Auburn. Mason had a sensational Senior season rushing for 1,800 yards and 23 Touchdowns!!! Sorry but that needs a triple exclamation point. He did all this at the Univ of Auburn en route to one of the most amazing seasons coming up just short against FSU in the big bowl.

Fact: He is listed anywhere form 5-8 to 5-10, that means he is probably covering up the fact he is short. 205? Perhaps but he could use some added pounds if he is going to touch the ball a lot in the NFL.

Fact: His father was/is part of the musical group, De la Soul

Fact: Mason runs about a 4.5 in the 40 but has been clocked anywhere from the 4.4s to 4.6s He is not Chris Johnson fast but it seems he can excelerate and move when he needs to. If he was running a 4.4 consistently I believe he would have been gone in the 2nd round.

Opinion: Mason carried the ball over 300 times as a Senior in only a 12 game season. He can touch the ball 15-20 times a game in the NFL and I believe the Rams will find ways to get him involved in the offense. I don't believe he comes in week 1 and tosses Stacy to the side. i don't believe Mason will be running the game clock out when the Rams are ahead, that falls on Stacy for now.

I do think Mason can be the lightning in the offense and on a team that lacks playmakers, I see him taking on a Giovani Bernard role here. Problem is we don't really know if Mason can catch the ball. He didn't do a lot of it in college.

Things I don't like about Mason or have questions about...8 fumbles the last 2 years, he is a little small but we have seen other small backs like Rice, MJD, many others do some damage. He is bigger than those backs but he lacks ideal size for now. Spread offense in college, great OL, he hd a nice supporting cast there.

Bottom Line: I like him to have an impact, more than Stacy owners want to admit or talk about. He was not drafted in the 3rd round to never be used IMO. He will have a few games that really get the focus of FF owners during the year and I think he will lay the tracks for a big chunk of this offense come 2015. He has speed and can make plays, I think he will be given 10-12 touches a game in the beginning, nothing over the top. Nice flex guy to have you can grab right now for peanuts. I like the asking price.

I still think Stacy will be the guy but he might be at about 240 carries for the season, still plenty for Mason to gobble up maybe 160 carries. Room for both I feel.

Stacy is currently listed at about 225 lbs., he has gotten bigger since entering the league. As to his 3.9 yard per carry average, Tomlinson's was 3.6 as a rookie. There are plenty of other examples where RBs that did very well had a similar average as rookies. He led the SEC in rushing on a team that wasn't as good as Auburn. He ran a 4.53 40.

Mason measured 5'8", 208 lbs. at the combine. He clocked a 4.50. Bernard is expected to be the lead RB in CIN, despite being nearly 30 lbs. lighter than Hill. He may get about 12-15 carries a game, but augment that with 60-70 receptions. Mason is unlikely to do that, and therefore have that kind of role, imo, even if he is a competent pass catcher. Bernard excels in this area.

I think Stacy gets more than 240 carries (15 per game) this season, health permitting. I agree Mason's third round pedigree is intriguing, and don't think he will never be used either, but it is hard to say he will get a big chunk of the offense in 2015 at this point. If Stacy improves on his rookie season, and looks like the better blocker for instance, Mason could have the lesser role in a RBBC for the foreseeable future.

Of course, if Stacy is injured, or Mason looks noticeably more explosive with an appreciably superior yards per carry average and handles all his blocking and pass catching assignments, that could change.

With all due respect. Stacy does not run like LT.

I don't care what YPC say. What does the kid look like on the field. He is not anywhere close to LT. Tomlinson was a once in a decade RB like ADP.

I agree but I liked his other points after the 1st paragraph where he compares LT and Zac Stacy As usual Bob does a thorough job of explaining and we are always free to disagree on differing points, neither side has to concede or be wrong in these discussions.

 

[Bob Magaw]

As I said, there are plenty of other examples if you look for them.

The point isn't that Stacy is as good as LT (that is a pretty literal reading - just illustrating the point), but that a 3.9 yard per carry average as a rookie doesn't doom a RB to a career of mediocrity. There could be room for improvement, without any attendant Hall of Fame expectations.

 

[Todem]

As I said, there are plenty of other examples if you look for them.

The point isn't that Stacy is as good as LT (that is a pretty literal reading - just illustrating the point), but that a 3.9 yard per carry average as a rookie doesn't doom a RB to a career of mediocrity. There could be room for improvement, without any attendant Hall of Fame expectations.

Absolutely agree Bob. I think Stacy is a decent player. I think the Rams drafting Mason shows they want more dynamic play making from the position and it would not surprise most of us if Mason eventually takes over as the primary back in the future. I think this year will be more of Stacy unless Mason really blows up and or Stacy goes backwards.

 

[Biabreakable]

Tre Mason had issues blocking in this game.

 

[bulger2holt]

Mason wasn't asked to block much at Auburn because that wasn't their scheme. Once the Rams work with him, I'm sure he will pick it fine. It's not that hard to learn.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Based on some polls I've seen here, Todem, the consensus does seem to be that Stacy will be the lead RB this year, and Mason is expected by many to take that role in the future.

I think if Stacy finishes in or close to the top 10 this year (and if he doesn't, imo, it won't be because Mason stole a lot of carries from him as a rookie), the dynasty community may reevaluate him as being better than decent. Drafting Mason COULD be interpreted as you have (I have characterized Mason as more explosive - look at their respective VJs, for instance), but doesn't necessarily have to be. It could also be interpreted as not too many teams roll with one RB (the pick could speak more to their confidence level in Benny Cunningham than Stacy). I do think STL will run a LOT. They did say they felt the value in the third for Mason was too good to pass up* (it wouldn't have been a surprise if he had been the first RB taken, in the second round). IF Stacy finishes around top 10 this year, though, it would probably be fair to say he was underdrafted and should have been taken higher, as well.

Mason could have been taken to initially spell Stacy and keep him fresh in game and over the course of the season. Also, like you said, to bring a different style and game to the table. I could see Mason being unleashed against tired defenses in the second half worn down by tackling the bruising, hard-nosed, 225 lb. Stacy and contending with the STL OL, with the hope that he can break some long runs.

Based on the polls projecting beyond this season, I think Stacy could be underrated (and the corollary, Mason overrated). I have said consistently, Mason has the kind of talent to be a formidable competitor with Stacy for the starting job, but I would be surprised if it happened as soon as this year. There are a lot of variables in play, too many for me to assign with a greater than 2-1 degree of confidence that Mason will emerge by 2015 as the pollsters have (I think it should be closer to even money, and maybe even slightly favor Stacy). Does Stacy improve? Can Mason handle the blocking and receiving assignments (I have more questions about the former than latter).

As a Rams fan, I don't have a vested interest in one RB being better than the other (though for the record and what it is worth, I do have Mason in one and Stacy in zero of the five dynasty leagues I play in), I hope they are both great. Stacy did have a lot of opportunity (led the NFL in carries per game at over 20?), but he didn't start the first four games which hurt his totals. If he had 1,300 yards and 10 TDs, even with the same efficiency metrics, would as many be saying he is a plodder (not that you are, but some are)? The OL was not as good last year. Chris Williams or Shelley Smith at LG, now Greg Robinson. Harvey Dahl at RG for part of the season, now Saffold at his more natural position. Having the starting QB miss over the half the season wasn't an ideal situation for him. The NFL West has a brutal lineup of defenses (though SF and ARI look like they will be weaker at LB for part or all of the season) which hindered Stacy at times, but he did fine in the first game against SEA at home. But this is a factor Mason will have to deal with, too.

* If you take this at face value, it doesn't sound like they went into the draft determined to take a RB with as high as a third round pick, it just worked out that Mason was available there. Based on how they described the circumstances and context of the pick, I didn't read into it that the organization is in any way down on Stacy.

 

[bulger2holt]

Tre Mason had

I only saw a couple misses. Not that bad at all. With a little work, I bet he will be pretty good at it. He looks willing and that's half the battle.

 

[Touchdown There]

Tre Mason had

If you don't like a RB, you say he has pass protection issues.

 

[HarddTimezz]

Mason looks like nothing but an Ingram clone to me. Stacy is the total package and this is a rather easy situation to discern. Stacy is in a rare situation and one of a handful of rb's set to receive 300+ carries. I can see 1500yrds and 15td. The rushing title could easily go to Stacy, this is a perfect storm, don't sleep on this situation.

 

[False Start]

Mason looks like nothing but an Ingram clone to me. Stacy is the total package and this is a rather easy situation to discern. Stacy is in a rare situation and one of a handful of rb's set to receive 300+ carries. I can see 1500yrds and 15td. The rushing title could easily go to Stacy, this is a perfect storm, don't sleep on this situation.

Own Stacy do you? Perfect storm? Drafting a RB early to compete is the perfect storm?

 

[HarddTimezz]

I'm acquiring Stacy wherever possible and I strongly encourage you to do the same. He remains the best value on the entire board and has currently settled in the predraft rb 15-20 range. 300+ carries is a certainty and this Rams team is built to RUN. Don't over think this.

 

[EBF]

I'm acquiring Stacy wherever possible and I strongly encourage you to do the same. He remains the best value on the entire board and has currently settled in the predraft rb 15-20 range. 300+ carries is a certainty and this Rams team is built to RUN. Don't over think this.

Don't under think it either. We've seen some situations where a team invests a high pick in a rookie RB only to keep him on the sidelines in favor of the veteran, but all the same I think Mason represents a bigger threat to Stacy's workload than you're implying here. I don't see 300+ carries as a "certainty" for a guy who may or may not even be the best back on his team. I'll probably avoid this situation in my redraft league.

 

[monk]

Mason looks like nothing but an Ingram clone to me. Stacy is the total package and this is a rather easy situation to discern. Stacy is in a rare situation and one of a handful of rb's set to receive 300+ carries. I can see 1500yrds and 15td. The rushing title could easily go to Stacy, this is a perfect storm, don't sleep on this situation.

Stacy #'s last year which may have been the perfect storm project to 1385 and 10 over a full season and over 340 touches

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I'm acquiring Stacy wherever possible and I strongly encourage you to do the same. He remains the best value on the entire board and has currently settled in the predraft rb 15-20 range. 300+ carries is a certainty and this Rams team is built to RUN. Don't over think this.

I'm sure some people probably said the same about lunchpail white in the summer of '08 after his 1100/7 on 300 carries in '07.

edit: that made me want to look up his 2008 player spotlight thread

most had him down as a lock for 280-300 carries, while he finished the year at 200.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Tre Mason had

I agree want to is important, not that it is easy and we should assume he will get there quickly no problem.

Physical ability is a component (and he seems to have at least requisite size and strength), technique, the awareness to execute the right assignment in the game, etc.

Maybe it is usually easy, I don't know, Mason is unusually inexperienced in this part of the game, even for a rookie, due to the Auburn scheme (ESPN's STL beat reporter Wagoner recently speculated that Robinson may not play LT until 2016, part of that could be due to the presence of Jake Long, but also to how raw his technique is coming from the same Auburn scheme). Some RBs get it in a year or less, some take longer. David Wilson seemed to still have issues in his second year.

Even if Mason becomes proficient in pass protection and gets up to speed quickly, if Stacy is better at it, it COULD be a factor in how the snaps are distributed going forward (I wouldn't assume it won't - especially given Bradford's checkered medical history, it could be a big point of emphasis with the STL coaching staff), unless Mason is so much more dominant of a runner that it renders the point moot, which I'm sceptical of. Mason is a little faster, more explosive and elusive. Stacy is a lot bigger, nearly as fast, also has relatively quick feet and shiftiness and they seem to have pretty similar contact balance.

* Even in one on one blocking drills where you know where the rush is coming from, some young RBs struggle with blocking technique. But with stunts and twists, even some vet OL struggle with pass rush games. While it may be easy to learn the rudiments, it may not necessarily be easy to become good at it.

 

[Biabreakable]

Tre Mason had

I linked 3 missed blocks from that game and I only saw him succeed once blocking in that game.

It is only one game. No need for you or anyone to get defensive about me pointing it out.

If you are interested in investing into the Rams running game in FF you might want to know that this player has struggled with pass protection before jumping in with both feet.

Adrian Peterson is very willing to pass block too, that does not mean he has mastered it. Just wanting to do it is not always enough.

It is also something that the coaching staff and the QB have to get comfortable with trusting a RB with these assignments. That may take time. If it does take time that means less opportunity until everyone one concerned is comfortable with the RB handling that assignment.

They can still get around it by using Mason as a receiver. His hands seem fine. That is what Arians did with Ellington last season, is have him release into a pass route on 90% of the passing plays he was involved with.

 

[Biabreakable]

Tre Mason had

If you can't have a conversation just throw out passive aggressive generalizations.

I like Mason a lot. That does not change the fact that he has shown deficiencies in his pass protection.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Tre Mason had

I didn't see that he got defensive, he just seems to have a difference of opinion with pass blocking difficulty.

Maybe next time, mention the 3-1 miss to success ratio in the initial post (though the main point is, thanks for sharing the information with the thread).

I agree that some may be underestimating how important blocking could be to STL.

 

[Touchdown There]

Tre Mason had

He hasn't shown anything yet. His snap count is zero.

 

[bulger2holt]

Tre Mason had

Almost every play on that video it seemed like his job was to wiggle through the line and get open.

 

[bulger2holt]

A lot of pass blocking for a RB is recognizing who to block. He just needs to be taught where the pressure is coming from. I doubt they even taught him that at Auburn. His full time job is now football and he can focus on these types of things. Plus, the Rams have great coaches, some of the best in the NFL.

 

[MAC_32]

I haven't been pYing attention because I have been very meh on this guys talent, why is his stock falling?

 

[Sleeper 43]

I'm not surprised by the Stacy doubts, same thing happened last season when he was a rookie and most thought he couldn't break through the competition (Pead and friends). Now its a rookie pick whose just going to come in a steamroll him out of a job. Mason is under-sized and frankly.. I just don't see anything special in the tape. in the NFL. I doubt he will ever be a 3 down back unless he makes a specific effort to add some pounds and it certainly wont happen this season. Do I see Mason coming in and adding a spark on 3rd downs, sure, but not enough to warrant him being a RB2 of anything.

Lets also not forgot Stacy had this off-season to grow as a player and learn the system that much more. Even thinking about the 3.9 YPC from last season, its not bad when you consider the QB play and the defenses in the division.

 

[SproutDaddy]

I haven't been pYing attention because I have been very meh on this guys talent, why is his stock falling?

since when has it been falling?

 

[domvin]

Mason looks like nothing but an Ingram clone to me. Stacy is the total package and this is a rather easy situation to discern. Stacy is in a rare situation and one of a handful of rb's set to receive 300+ carries. I can see 1500yrds and 15td. The rushing title could easily go to Stacy, this is a perfect storm, don't sleep on this situation.

Mason and Ingram are nothing alike. mason is far more shiftier.

 

[MAC_32]

I haven't been pYing attention because I have been very meh on this guys talent, why is his stock falling?

since when has it been falling?

someone I follow on twitter posted his adp falling over the last few weeks.

 

[ffgiant]

Mason looks like nothing but an Ingram clone to me. Stacy is the total package and this is a rather easy situation to discern. Stacy is in a rare situation and one of a handful of rb's set to receive 300+ carries. I can see 1500yrds and 15td. The rushing title could easily go to Stacy, this is a perfect storm, don't sleep on this situation.

Mason and Ingram are nothing alike. mason is far more shiftier.

I am sure Ingram was much better prospect, the rest is history.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Tre Mason had

Not in college.

Assuming you aren't throwing out his running production in college, it would be consistent to also include blocking struggles (albeit in limited opportunities) in his NFL projection.

 

[Bob Magaw]

A lot of pass blocking for a RB is recognizing who to block. He just needs to be taught where the pressure is coming from. I doubt they even taught him that at Auburn. His full time job is now football and he can focus on these types of things. Plus, the Rams have great coaches, some of the best in the NFL.

Knowing that if two blitzers break free that you block the one that is closer to the QB is different from actually doing it. If it were that simple, every RB would be good at it (lots of RBs have failed at particular skills, despite football also having been a full time job for them as well, in which they could "focus on those types of things"). We have no idea if Mason will be good at it or even competent, this year or next. Stacy has the edge in size, strength and experience, and the benefit of the same coaches.

 

[EBF]

Mason looks like nothing but an Ingram clone to me. Stacy is the total package and this is a rather easy situation to discern. Stacy is in a rare situation and one of a handful of rb's set to receive 300+ carries. I can see 1500yrds and 15td. The rushing title could easily go to Stacy, this is a perfect storm, don't sleep on this situation.

Mason and Ingram are nothing alike. mason is far more shiftier.

Mason really isn't a big time juker. If you watch his games, he can make one move, but he's not the type to string together a lot of sharp cuts. He often seems to lose momentum when forced to make a difficult cut. That's what separates him from Ray Rice, IMO. They have a lot of similarities, but Rice was a more elusive runner.

IMO Ingram is a lot better than his current reputation would indicate. He showed some nice flashes last season and could still have a decent career on another team. He's just not a fit in New Orleans. All that aside, I don't see Mason and Ingram as being very similar in any way besides coming from the SEC.

 

[Nero]

Mason's size is the biggest reason I think he will not overtake Stacy. I was surprised to see him come in at 207 for the combine. He seemed to shy away from contact when asked to block, so I thought he'd be little, about 195. Conversely, I was almost certain Stacy dropped weight to get to 216 for his combine to be a bit quicker. I like Mason a lot and think he'd be successful if given the opportunity. However, I think it will mirror the 49ers with Gore and Hunter. Ironically they are very similar players and I expect a similar split, with Mason getting a few more receptions than Hunter usually got.

 

[Touchdown There]

Tre Mason had

No one knows what his responsibility is on any given play. What may look like a missed block could be him sliding off for a dump pass. Scouts can research that and talk to his position coach\coordinator, but a bunch of amateurs watching tape have no idea what his job was on those plays.

 

[TheFanatic]

Mason looks like nothing but an Ingram clone to me. Stacy is the total package and this is a rather easy situation to discern. Stacy is in a rare situation and one of a handful of rb's set to receive 300+ carries. I can see 1500yrds and 15td. The rushing title could easily go to Stacy, this is a perfect storm, don't sleep on this situation.

Own Stacy do you? Perfect storm? Drafting a RB early to compete is the perfect storm?

Drafting a RB early? The guy wasn't a first rounder. Hell, even before the RB's were devalued, 2nd round RB's had little or no guarantee of much of anything. A 3rd rd RB is nothing more than a depth move. If the guy shows up and outperforms the starter, then good for the scouts, but it doesn't happen all that often...

 

[BruceAlmighty]

Les Snead is an Auburn grad from Eufala. Jeff Fisher's son Trent plays on the Auburn team. They know exactly what they drafted. Mason steals Stacy's cookies by week 5.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Tre Mason had

I like Mason a lot (and in the only league I own Stacy, I also own Mason), but it was well documented during the pre-draft process that Mason was poor in pass protection. That doesn't mean he can't improve, but being poor in pass protection has been a roadblock to rookie backs seeing the field a lot in the past.

I don't think every time some one is critical about a certain ability of a prospect/player it makes them a "hater" or it means they own the other guy. You constantly throw that around in every thread instead of offering a real rebuttal.

Do you think Mason is a good pass blocker? I'll admit I really don't know, but the draft experts sure didn't think so.

 

[Todem]

Mason looks like nothing but an Ingram clone to me. Stacy is the total package and this is a rather easy situation to discern. Stacy is in a rare situation and one of a handful of rb's set to receive 300+ carries. I can see 1500yrds and 15td. The rushing title could easily go to Stacy, this is a perfect storm, don't sleep on this situation.

Own Stacy do you? Perfect storm? Drafting a RB early to compete is the perfect storm?

Drafting a RB early? The guy wasn't a first rounder. Hell, even before the RB's were devalued, 2nd round RB's had little or no guarantee of much of anything. A 3rd rd RB is nothing more than a depth move. If the guy shows up and outperforms the starter, then good for the scouts, but it doesn't happen all that often...

RB's drafted in the first round is fast becoming a thing of the past. The shift in the NFL to full blown RBBC is equivalent to Major League Baseball's move to set up men (middle relief) to ease the workloads on their starters. A shift has occurred over the past 2 years and this trend will continue. RB's are now becoming niche roles. Unless your a godly talent like ADP or LT, your not being taken in the first round anymore.

You have the starting back

The third down back

The short yardage back

Backs lining up in the slot (Sproles, Bush, Dexter McCluster)

It is getting very specialized.

Unless you are truly elite and those are not often a find, you are seeing more and more defined roles for RB's.

What round was Jamal Charles drafted in (3rd round)

What round was Lesean McCoy drafted in (second round)

What round was Stacy drafted in for that matter (5th round)

Draft position does not = status anymore.

Tre mason was drafted to be a play maker. A home run hitter. I don't doubt Stacy is a solid NFL back, and in fact I expect him to be the starter this year and hold onto the job for the most part. But don't fool yourself into thinking that taking Mason in the 3rd round was a depth move. When you take a guy in the 2nd or 3rd round you have an expectation of impact. The Rams drafted Mason because of his explosiveness and pass catching ability. No doubt he will play a role on this team this year and if he develops, can be a big impact RB.

I think The Rams would like nothing more than punishing defenses with Stacy, then trot Mason on the field to break loose for a 60 yard TD after getting hit in the mouth for 3 quarters to close a game.

I gotta believe if Mason is a fast learner, he can easily see 10-12 touches a game. Impact touches.

Much like Andre Ellington had last season.

I see this like Buffalo when Fred Jackson was healthy. They would pound Jackson then let loose Spiller on them. I can almost assure you Green bay was hoping for the same thing with Lacy and Franklin. But injuries derailed that thinking. Make no mistake, finding a second back a lighting to a thunder is a huge trend building in the NFL.

It makes FF drafting tougher sledding, that's for sure. And the premium on 3 down PPR backs has never been higher.

 

[JFS171]

I'll admit I haven't read every single post in this thread, but no one seems to mention the Auburn running scheme as even a slight cause for concern for Mason. I personally don't get that...

 

[bulger2holt]

I'll admit I haven't read every single post in this thread, but no one seems to mention the Auburn running scheme as even a slight cause for concern for Mason. I personally don't get that...

I mentioned it, but also said that just because he wasn't asked to block doesn't mean he can't be taught. The Rams have great coaches and will teach him. It's not rocket science. His job at Auburn was to wiggle through the line and get open. The Rams will use him that way too. He's a great weapon out of the backfield. Also, let him run behind Long - Robinson - Wells - Saffold - Barksdale. That's a potentially great run blocking o-line.

 

[Touchdown There]

Do you think Mason is a good pass blocker? I'll admit I really don't know, but the draft experts sure didn't think so.

I don't see any links in your post to the draft experts.

I have no idea about Mason and his pass blocking. What I do know is that shorter, thicker RBs tend to fare better with pass blocking once they learn where they are supposed to be. I also know that many times guys on this board think a college "whiff" is just a chip block or a way to slide off for a dump pass. I do not think anyone on this board is qualified to watch tape and assume they know what a players' responsibility was on the play.

The guy has zero snaps in the NFL, people can hit pause on scrutinizing the smaller aspects of his game. With that said, I think Stacy becomes the bell cow but I am interested in this thread because Mason could be really good.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Tre Mason had

You are jumping around.

First it was, questioning blocking makes a critic a hater.

Than it was, we can't know anything because he has no pro snaps.

Next it was amateurs don't know his assignment and can't know anything (I assume you include yourself in this category as not knowing anything about this matter, which isn't the most positive basis on which to recommend him).

So lets go with the most recent point. At best, Mason is inexperienced and hasn't shown he can pass block consistently, due to the Auburn scheme (not unlike Greg Robinson). A lot of what people are doing here are speculating. But when RBs more experienced and more proven in this area in college have struggled initially, it doesn't seem a stretch to think that Mason could. One of the arguments put forth in the thread was that we should expect it will be easy for Mason to pass protect in the NFL, because it is simply a matter of knowing what to do (desire and want to also mentioned). That seemed like a cavalier dismissal of the complexity and difficulty involved, and not the most compelling argument, imo. For one thing, a RB doesn't always know in advance who he will have to block, he has to react. A coach could draw diagrams for a RB, WR or QB and say, just hit the biggest hole, just run this route adjustment or just throw to the most open WR. But clearly there can be a big difference between knowing what you are supposed to do on the chalk board, and executing on the field in real time against 11 defenders (and 21 other players including the offense) moving in different directions and at different speeds relative to each other, or RBs would always hit the right hole, WRs would always make the right route adjustment and QBs would always throw to the most open WR. If a RB, WR or QB misses a rushing, receiving or passing assignment, the results could range from leaving yards on the field to no gain, negative yardage or even a turnover. If a RB misses a pass protection assignment, the QB could be injured, a negative impact that could reverberate much more widely and lastingly on the team's overall fortunes.

So IF there is a significant difference in this skill between Stacy (who has the size, strength and experience advantage) and Mason, I seriously doubt the coaches will dismiss it as cavalierly as some have here. I think they are going to put a heavy emphasis on protecting Bradford, and not think, what's the worst that can happen if we play a RB not ready in this department, Bradford blows his knee out, in which case we go with Hill.

Sure, maybe Mason will be a natural and effortlessly overcome his lack of experience and technique reps, and be like a Willie Mays of RB pass protectors. Anything is possible. But there have already been reports in camp that he has missed assignments and completely whiffed on blocks, which corroborates concerns that have been a consensus in the scouting community (not just the amateur community).

* Just for the record, I'm stating Mason is likely to struggle in this area, at least initially. Also, I'm not stating Mason can't become competent, proficient or even good with diligent practice, maybe even better than Stacy. Just that *IF* that doesn't happen, and there is a significant skill/ability gap between Stacy and Mason, it could limit his opportunities going forward, even beyond this season unless/until this is corrected, UNLESS he is such a vastly superior pure rusher that it renders the point moot (which I'm sceptical of - in which case it reverts to the preceding point).

 

[Touchdown There]

questioning blocking makes a critic a hater.

Exactly, because it is way too easily tossed around by the hater who has the other guy on their dynasty team. In this case, you really like Stacy.

 

[TheFanatic]

Mason looks like nothing but an Ingram clone to me. Stacy is the total package and this is a rather easy situation to discern. Stacy is in a rare situation and one of a handful of rb's set to receive 300+ carries. I can see 1500yrds and 15td. The rushing title could easily go to Stacy, this is a perfect storm, don't sleep on this situation.

Own Stacy do you? Perfect storm? Drafting a RB early to compete is the perfect storm?

Drafting a RB early? The guy wasn't a first rounder. Hell, even before the RB's were devalued, 2nd round RB's had little or no guarantee of much of anything. A 3rd rd RB is nothing more than a depth move. If the guy shows up and outperforms the starter, then good for the scouts, but it doesn't happen all that often...

RB's drafted in the first round is fast becoming a thing of the past. The shift in the NFL to full blown RBBC is equivalent to Major League Baseball's move to set up men (middle relief) to ease the workloads on their starters. A shift has occurred over the past 2 years and this trend will continue. RB's are now becoming niche roles. Unless your a godly talent like ADP or LT, your not being taken in the first round anymore.

You have the starting back

The third down back

The short yardage back

Backs lining up in the slot (Sproles, Bush, Dexter McCluster)

It is getting very specialized.

Unless you are truly elite and those are not often a find, you are seeing more and more defined roles for RB's.

What round was Jamal Charles drafted in (3rd round)

What round was Lesean McCoy drafted in (second round)

What round was Stacy drafted in for that matter (5th round)

Draft position does not = status anymore.

Tre mason was drafted to be a play maker. A home run hitter. I don't doubt Stacy is a solid NFL back, and in fact I expect him to be the starter this year and hold onto the job for the most part. But don't fool yourself into thinking that taking Mason in the 3rd round was a depth move. When you take a guy in the 2nd or 3rd round you have an expectation of impact. The Rams drafted Mason because of his explosiveness and pass catching ability. No doubt he will play a role on this team this year and if he develops, can be a big impact RB.

I think The Rams would like nothing more than punishing defenses with Stacy, then trot Mason on the field to break loose for a 60 yard TD after getting hit in the mouth for 3 quarters to close a game.

I gotta believe if Mason is a fast learner, he can easily see 10-12 touches a game. Impact touches.

Much like Andre Ellington had last season.

I see this like Buffalo when Fred Jackson was healthy. They would pound Jackson then let loose Spiller on them. I can almost assure you Green bay was hoping for the same thing with Lacy and Franklin. But injuries derailed that thinking. Make no mistake, finding a second back a lighting to a thunder is a huge trend building in the NFL.

It makes FF drafting tougher sledding, that's for sure. And the premium on 3 down PPR backs has never been higher.

The perfect storm here seems to me, is that there are going to be a lot of carries in this offense this year. The draft showed me that the Rams are not going to rely on Sam Bradford to carry the team. Otherwise they would've gotten him something to throw to beyond Kenny Britt.

They are going to rely on a punishing D, punishing running, and ask Bradford not to punish the team with low percentage passes. He will be a game manager which to me means, when in doubt, run. That means extra carries for everyone. That means that 10-12 to Mason is not going to hurt Stacy all that much in that he will still get 15-20 a game.

You can argue that the league is all about the aerial assault now, but the team that was the best at it last year came up short against a run first team with a punishing D in the Super Bowl. It's hard to score in bunches while the other team chews up clock, grinding down the field.

Also, Mason has to learn a play book, blocking, terminology, etc. Anyone thinking he's taking Stacy's bacon by week 5 is fooling themselves. Guys in pro style offenses in college that can pass pro can hit the ground running in the NFL. But guys that have to learn as much as he does don't generally do much early.

I fully expect someone other than Stacy to have 10-12 carries a game for the Rams. Austin might get 1-2. Benny Cunningham might get 6-8. Someone else might get a couple. Hell, all the stuff you Mason guys are throwing at Tre may in fact be Cunningham's role.