The 2014 NFL Draft All-Overrated Team: Vanderbilt WR Jordan Matthews (6 Viewers)

[Leroy's Aces]

This is a classic case of numbers vs actual ability. I think it's pretty clear where Matthews stands in ability, yet some are choosing to ignore it and just stare at the numbers.

The numbers are not just pretty clear, they are 100% fact. Rating his actual ability is what is in dispute and is the subjective work that Bloom, you and the NFL scouts and teams are doing right now. Some of the posters here have watched his film and have disagreed with you.

Based on the general prognostication that Matthews is considered to be a top 40-50 overall pick at worst by most NFL-connected people, it seems like the NFL as a whole disagrees with your assessment. I am not saying you or Bloom are inherently wrong as there are highly drafted busts with great stats, just that you are intimating that you rate talent better than the billion dollar organizations that do this for a living. To me, that is like saying you could judge the viability of a singer better than Simon Cowell because you judge karaoke on the weekends.

 

[cstu]

This is a classic case of numbers vs actual ability. I think it's pretty clear where Matthews stands in ability, yet some are choosing to ignore it and just stare at the numbers.

The numbers are not just pretty clear, they are 100% fact. Rating his actual ability is what is in dispute and is the subjective work that Bloom, you and the NFL scouts and teams are doing right now. Some of the posters here have watched his film and have disagreed with you.

Based on the general prognostication that Matthews is considered to be a top 40-50 overall pick at worst by most NFL-connected people, it seems like the NFL as a whole disagrees with your assessment. I am not saying you or Bloom are inherently wrong as there are highly drafted busts with great stats, just that you are intimating that you rate talent better than the billion dollar organizations that do this for a living. To me, that is like saying you could judge the viability of a singer better than Simon Cowell because you judge karaoke on the weekends.

Makes me wonder why a 6-3, 212 lb. guy who runs a 4.46 and put up monster college stats isn't considered a 1st round lock.

 

[jurb26]

Based on the general prognostication that Matthews is considered to be a top 40-50 overall pick at worst by most NFL-connected people, it seems like the NFL as a whole disagrees with your assessment. I am not saying you or Bloom are inherently wrong as there are highly drafted busts with great stats, just that you are intimating that you rate talent better than the billion dollar organizations that do this for a living. To me, that is like saying you could judge the viability of a singer better than Simon Cowell because you judge karaoke on the weekends.

Huh? The highest I've seen Mathews on any ranking board is around prospect 40. I'm not sure how that equates to an "at worst" ranking. Not only that but who are the NFL connected people you speak of? Nobody issuing ranking is that connected and the only proof of his NFL valuation will come when he's drafted. I don't see anyone asserting their opinion is more valuable than the media herd here. People are just offering their personal insight on the player.

 

[Milkman]

This is a classic case of numbers vs actual ability. I think it's pretty clear where Matthews stands in ability, yet some are choosing to ignore it and just stare at the numbers.

The numbers are not just pretty clear, they are 100% fact. Rating his actual ability is what is in dispute and is the subjective work that Bloom, you and the NFL scouts and teams are doing right now. Some of the posters here have watched his film and have disagreed with you.

Based on the general prognostication that Matthews is considered to be a top 40-50 overall pick at worst by most NFL-connected people, it seems like the NFL as a whole disagrees with your assessment. I am not saying you or Bloom are inherently wrong as there are highly drafted busts with great stats, just that you are intimating that you rate talent better than the billion dollar organizations that do this for a living. To me, that is like saying you could judge the viability of a singer better than Simon Cowell because you judge karaoke on the weekends.

Makes me wonder why a 6-3, 212 lb. guy who runs a 4.46 and put up monster college stats isn't considered a 1st round lock.

He just ran that 4.46 last week. I'm not sure that has been priced into his projected ranking.

 

[Milkman]

He has a legit shot at sneaking into the first round.

 

[werdnoynek]

This is a classic case of numbers vs actual ability. I think it's pretty clear where Matthews stands in ability, yet some are choosing to ignore it and just stare at the numbers.

The numbers are not just pretty clear, they are 100% fact. Rating his actual ability is what is in dispute and is the subjective work that Bloom, you and the NFL scouts and teams are doing right now. Some of the posters here have watched his film and have disagreed with you.

Based on the general prognostication that Matthews is considered to be a top 40-50 overall pick at worst by most NFL-connected people, it seems like the NFL as a whole disagrees with your assessment. I am not saying you or Bloom are inherently wrong as there are highly drafted busts with great stats, just that you are intimating that you rate talent better than the billion dollar organizations that do this for a living. To me, that is like saying you could judge the viability of a singer better than Simon Cowell because you judge karaoke on the weekends.

I've said multiple times I'm not disputing the numbers. I'm not sure how I can make that any more clear. I'm just giving my opinion here, I don't mean to imply I know more than the talking heads in the media or other people in our beloved pool... I'm sorry you're getting that vibe. I like to form my own opinion on players, it seems like you're more of a follow the herd type of guy, I'm OK with that and I'd ask you be OK with me making my own assessments. Also as a side note, I'd really love to know who your guys are in the NFL giving their opinion on Matthews, and would also love to hear what they have to say on some of the other (more exciting?) prospects in this class.

Look, I think Matthews is one of the top 10 WR's in the this class... I'd take Watkins, Evans, Lee, Beckham Jr, Cooks, Adams, Abbrederis, and maybe Landry over him at this point. I think he can have success in the NFL but I'm not buying this talk that he's AJ Green or an elite WR prospect. I sure as #### wouldn't take him just because he put up "factually" good numbers in college and ran fast in his underwear.

 

[Brewtown]

This is a classic case of numbers vs actual ability. I think it's pretty clear where Matthews stands in ability, yet some are choosing to ignore it and just stare at the numbers.

The numbers are not just pretty clear, they are 100% fact. Rating his actual ability is what is in dispute and is the subjective work that Bloom, you and the NFL scouts and teams are doing right now. Some of the posters here have watched his film and have disagreed with you.

Based on the general prognostication that Matthews is considered to be a top 40-50 overall pick at worst by most NFL-connected people, it seems like the NFL as a whole disagrees with your assessment. I am not saying you or Bloom are inherently wrong as there are highly drafted busts with great stats, just that you are intimating that you rate talent better than the billion dollar organizations that do this for a living. To me, that is like saying you could judge the viability of a singer better than Simon Cowell because you judge karaoke on the weekends.

I like Matthews and his prospects for the NFL.

I don't think that blind faith in NFL organizations is the belief that we should have. The NFL is full of continued ineptness, nepotism, and bad organizational decisions. Having blind faith in that system is probably not a good idea.

Having blind faith in a particular analysts scouting opinions is also something that you shouldn't do. Scouting and projecting is an inexact science with many variables that can make or break a player. If we listened to every opinion that Bloom had as gospel we would have all been fighting with each other to grab Ronnie Hillman for our teams a couple of years back.

In trying to increase my batting average at this inexact science I take in a lot of information (watch games, listen to scouts/experts opinions, look at their performance in the combine, check to see how far back players have had success, look for Athletic traits) and make my own projection. This way I have no one to blame but myself.

To be fair Bloom was also very high on Julius Thomas and has forgotten more about scouting/projecting player performance than most people on this board. He probably has just as high of scouting batting average as anyone.

That being said - I think he has got this one wrong. Jordan Matthews is pretty talented and I think he has number one WR potential...

Time will tell...

 

[Milkman]

Yeah Matthews has def showed his 4.4 speed on the field too. You've watched his tape he's beaten DBs to the end zone several times.

 

[werdnoynek]

IF Matthews is taken in the first round, some team is taking him to be something he is not. It will be a mistake IMO.

 

[Leroy's Aces]

This is a classic case of numbers vs actual ability. I think it's pretty clear where Matthews stands in ability, yet some are choosing to ignore it and just stare at the numbers.

The numbers are not just pretty clear, they are 100% fact. Rating his actual ability is what is in dispute and is the subjective work that Bloom, you and the NFL scouts and teams are doing right now. Some of the posters here have watched his film and have disagreed with you.

Based on the general prognostication that Matthews is considered to be a top 40-50 overall pick at worst by most NFL-connected people, it seems like the NFL as a whole disagrees with your assessment. I am not saying you or Bloom are inherently wrong as there are highly drafted busts with great stats, just that you are intimating that you rate talent better than the billion dollar organizations that do this for a living. To me, that is like saying you could judge the viability of a singer better than Simon Cowell because you judge karaoke on the weekends.

I've said multiple times I'm not disputing the numbers. I'm not sure how I can make that any more clear. I'm just giving my opinion here, I don't mean to imply I know more than the talking heads in the media or other people in our beloved pool... I'm sorry you're getting that vibe. I like to form my own opinion on players, it seems like you're more of a follow the herd type of guy, I'm OK with that and I'd ask you be OK with me making my own assessments. Also as a side note, I'd really love to know who your guys are in the NFL giving their opinion on Matthews, and would also love to hear what they have to say on some of the other (more exciting?) prospects in this class.

Look, I think Matthews is one of the top 10 WR's in the this class... I'd take Watkins, Evans, Lee, Beckham Jr, Cooks, Adams, Abbrederis, and maybe Landry over him at this point. I think he can have success in the NFL but I'm not buying this talk that he's AJ Green or an elite WR prospect. I sure as #### wouldn't take him just because he put up "factually" good numbers in college and ran fast in his underwear.

My apologies if I took your post the wrong way.

I also agree that his game is not much like AJ Green and actually agree with some of the points about routes, separation. Bloom's article is a good one and I was glad to read it and get some differing opinions.

For me, as of right now, I would take Watkins, Evans, and Lee over him and two other WRs that I can draft later over him (I am in 8 dynasty leagues and won't name them because some of those players read these boards). Maybe Cooks. Not Beckham, Abbrederis or Landry for me. Cooks, Lee, Beckham, Abbrederis and Landry face much longer odds of becoming NFL WR1s than Matthews just do to their size. How many guys that are under 6'2" and under 205 lbs are WR1s in any given NFL year, especially lately? Answer: 1-2 and they usually change. Antonio Brown one year, Welker another and so on. So Matthews size is a big positive for me just as a factor of pure odds to "win" by drafting a potential WR1 over smaller guys that need to beat the odds to get there.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Yeah Matthews has def showed his 4.4 speed on the field too. You've watched his tape he's beaten DBs to the end zone several times.

IF he has a lane. he has build-up speed. he is not running at 4.46 right out of his stance. he's not elusive enough to create a lane on his own, but well-blocked screens and defensive lapses allowed him to show that speed in games.

 

[Leroy's Aces]

Based on the general prognostication that Matthews is considered to be a top 40-50 overall pick at worst by most NFL-connected people, it seems like the NFL as a whole disagrees with your assessment. I am not saying you or Bloom are inherently wrong as there are highly drafted busts with great stats, just that you are intimating that you rate talent better than the billion dollar organizations that do this for a living. To me, that is like saying you could judge the viability of a singer better than Simon Cowell because you judge karaoke on the weekends.

Huh? The highest I've seen Mathews on any ranking board is around prospect 40. I'm not sure how that equates to an "at worst" ranking. Not only that but who are the NFL connected people you speak of? Nobody issuing ranking is that connected and the only proof of his NFL valuation will come when he's drafted. I don't see anyone asserting their opinion is more valuable than the media herd here. People are just offering their personal insight on the player.

Obviously his precise value is difficult to peg, but here are a few articles that have him in the late first to early 2nd.

http://fansided.com/2014/02/27/feldman-jordan-matthews-underrated-wr-2014-nfl-draft/#!x08mw

If he slips out of the first round, which appears likely, some team in the second round is going to get themselves a player who can make an immediate impact as a rookie because of his size, speed and hands, but what separates him from others in this class is his crisp route-running ability.

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/02/i_feel_like_i_am_the_best_guy.html

This is Pre-combine, where Matthews did well: After a stellar week at the Senior Bowl, Matthews is ranked as high as No. 8 (CBSSports.com) at his position. If that's how the chips fall in the May NFL Draft, he'd likely be a second-round selection.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/mock-draft-1-0-picks-for-entire-first-round-with-combine-now-complete-022614

Mock draft #32. Seattle Seahawks

Jordan Matthews, WR, Vanderbilt: .

http://www.allmediany.com/news/19128-nfl-draft-watch-vanderbilt-commodores-jordan-matthews-amp-kenny-ladler

He is projected as a middle-to-late first round pick.

http://kckingdom.com/2014/03/02/2014-nfl-draft-kansas-city-chiefs-potential-day-one-pick/

This article lists Matthews as a potential day one pick to the Chiefs.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1978006-nfl-mock-draft-2014-filling-every-teams-biggest-draft-day-need

Mock draft at #30. San Francisco 49ers: Jordan Matthews, WR, Vanderbilt

http://nflmocks.com/2014/02/28/top-2014-nfl-draft-sleepers-nobody-talking/

If he was a borderline first rounder before, he is a definite one now.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

This is a classic case of numbers vs actual ability. I think it's pretty clear where Matthews stands in ability, yet some are choosing to ignore it and just stare at the numbers.

The numbers are not just pretty clear, they are 100% fact. Rating his actual ability is what is in dispute and is the subjective work that Bloom, you and the NFL scouts and teams are doing right now. Some of the posters here have watched his film and have disagreed with you.

Based on the general prognostication that Matthews is considered to be a top 40-50 overall pick at worst by most NFL-connected people, it seems like the NFL as a whole disagrees with your assessment. I am not saying you or Bloom are inherently wrong as there are highly drafted busts with great stats, just that you are intimating that you rate talent better than the billion dollar organizations that do this for a living. To me, that is like saying you could judge the viability of a singer better than Simon Cowell because you judge karaoke on the weekends.

Yes, because these billion dollar organizations never make mistakes and draft busts, and they certainly would never make such mistakes year in and year out, that's for sure.

 

[Leroy's Aces]

This is a classic case of numbers vs actual ability. I think it's pretty clear where Matthews stands in ability, yet some are choosing to ignore it and just stare at the numbers.

The numbers are not just pretty clear, they are 100% fact. Rating his actual ability is what is in dispute and is the subjective work that Bloom, you and the NFL scouts and teams are doing right now. Some of the posters here have watched his film and have disagreed with you.

Based on the general prognostication that Matthews is considered to be a top 40-50 overall pick at worst by most NFL-connected people, it seems like the NFL as a whole disagrees with your assessment. I am not saying you or Bloom are inherently wrong as there are highly drafted busts with great stats, just that you are intimating that you rate talent better than the billion dollar organizations that do this for a living. To me, that is like saying you could judge the viability of a singer better than Simon Cowell because you judge karaoke on the weekends.

Yes, because these billion dollar organizations never make mistakes and draft busts, and they certainly would never make such mistakes year in and year out, that's for sure.

Obviously you ignored the bolded.

I have no problem with someone paying little attention to draft position and having no faith in the NFL scouting process, it is your money. The #1 correlated stat of fantasy wide receiver success is draft position. Sure, I could get on a high horse and say I know better, and I watched a bunch of film so my scouting is superior. And I am sure I will draft players outside of the slot from where they were drafted. But I would never be so obtuse as to ignore it as being valuable. And don't forget that draft position is determined by those same billion dollar organizations you deride.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

This is a classic case of numbers vs actual ability. I think it's pretty clear where Matthews stands in ability, yet some are choosing to ignore it and just stare at the numbers.

The numbers are not just pretty clear, they are 100% fact. Rating his actual ability is what is in dispute and is the subjective work that Bloom, you and the NFL scouts and teams are doing right now. Some of the posters here have watched his film and have disagreed with you.

Based on the general prognostication that Matthews is considered to be a top 40-50 overall pick at worst by most NFL-connected people, it seems like the NFL as a whole disagrees with your assessment. I am not saying you or Bloom are inherently wrong as there are highly drafted busts with great stats, just that you are intimating that you rate talent better than the billion dollar organizations that do this for a living. To me, that is like saying you could judge the viability of a singer better than Simon Cowell because you judge karaoke on the weekends.

Yes, because these billion dollar organizations never make mistakes and draft busts, and they certainly would never make such mistakes year in and year out, that's for sure.

Obviously you ignored the bolded.

I have no problem with someone paying little attention to draft position and having no faith in the NFL scouting process, it is your money. The #1 correlated stat of fantasy wide receiver success is draft position. Sure, I could get on a high horse and say I know better, and I watched a bunch of film so my scouting is superior. And I am sure I will draft players outside of the slot from where they were drafted. But I would never be so obtuse as to ignore it as being valuable. And don't forget that draft position is determined by those same billion dollar organizations you deride.

Yeah I ignored it because you contradicted the bolded with your next statement. werdnoynek never said or implied that he is a better at rating talent than NFL franchises. Nor did he say or imply that draft order information is valueless; those are strawman arguments that you're creating. All he said was if a team drafts Jordan Matthews in the first round it'd be a mistake. So all that would imply is that werdnoynek thinks he did a better job of rating Jordan Matthews, and him alone, than whatever NFL team drafts Matthews in the first round, assuming that happens.

 

[BuzzCagney]

Didn't Sammy Watkins take a ton of screens last year too?

Yes.

Thanks. If someone can tell me the difference is, that would be great.

Watkins displays consistent clear ability to create separation vs man coverage and run the full route tree effectively

This running of a full route tree seems like a pretty basic skill for a WR that can be taught/learned (especially with someone of Matthews athletic ability and bloodline). You think Jerry Rice's cousin won't be able to run decent routes : )

So, in your film study, you did not see the full route tree, and in your opinion he did not demonstrate this in college. Part of what we do in evaluating is predicting how talent translates to the NFL. Wouldn't any reasonable scout/man think that a very good athlete like Matthews would probably have no problem running the full route tree?

the biggest mistake a scout can make is assume a player will continue to develop. Reality is, most don't.

would you factor in a player's work ethic and intelligence, specifically football i.q., into the probability of a player being able to continue to develop?

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

Yeah Matthews has def showed his 4.4 speed on the field too. You've watched his tape he's beaten DBs to the end zone several times.

IF he has a lane. he has build-up speed. he is not running at 4.46 right out of his stance. he's not elusive enough to create a lane on his own, but well-blocked screens and defensive lapses allowed him to show that speed in games.

I'm completely on the fence with Matthews right now and to me, he's the most difficult to evaluate from this class. He's one of those guys who I won't be shocked if he becomes a perennial pro-bowler, nor would I be shocked if he fails to become a reliable fantasy starter.

That being said, big plays in the NFL also come in the form of flawless execution and/or defensive breakdowns. Pointing that out shouldn't be considered a negative, imo.

 

[MAC_32]

Didn't Sammy Watkins take a ton of screens last year too?

Yes.

Thanks. If someone can tell me the difference is, that would be great.

Watkins displays consistent clear ability to create separation vs man coverage and run the full route tree effectively

This running of a full route tree seems like a pretty basic skill for a WR that can be taught/learned (especially with someone of Matthews athletic ability and bloodline). You think Jerry Rice's cousin won't be able to run decent routes : )

So, in your film study, you did not see the full route tree, and in your opinion he did not demonstrate this in college. Part of what we do in evaluating is predicting how talent translates to the NFL. Wouldn't any reasonable scout/man think that a very good athlete like Matthews would probably have no problem running the full route tree?

the biggest mistake a scout can make is assume a player will continue to develop. Reality is, most don't.

would you factor in a player's work ethic and intelligence, specifically football i.q., into the probability of a player being able to continue to develop?

absolutely, but us on the outside dont have nearly as much of this information. Plus tere are cases like Arian Foster in which coaches have it out for a former player and will spread false rumors, hurting their stock. I try to limit factoring this in unless i really trust my sources of information.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Yeah Matthews has def showed his 4.4 speed on the field too. You've watched his tape he's beaten DBs to the end zone several times.

IF he has a lane. he has build-up speed. he is not running at 4.46 right out of his stance. he's not elusive enough to create a lane on his own, but well-blocked screens and defensive lapses allowed him to show that speed in games.

I'm completely on the fence with Matthews right now and to me, he's the most difficult to evaluate from this class. He's one of those guys who I won't be shocked if he becomes a perennial pro-bowler, nor would I be shocked if he fails to become a reliable fantasy starter.

That being said, big plays in the NFL also come in the form of flawless execution and/or defensive breakdowns. Pointing that out shouldn't be considered a negative, imo.

its just a like a running back with long speed but little elusiveness. it's nice to be fast, but you have to have other skills to get it into play.

 

[Faust]

SI 64, Nos. 49-45: Trent Murphy, Jordan Matthews, Stephon Tuitt and more

Chris Burke

Excerpt:

No. 48: Jordan Matthews, WR, VanderbiltBio: Vanderbilt’s quarterback play was, at best, average during Matthews’ four years there. He deserves extremely high marks then for finding a way to catch 112 passes for 1,477 yards last season. Those numbers topped the 94/1,323 spread he produced in 2012 catching passes from Jordan Rodgers, brother of Green Bay’s Aaron and who recently signed with the Dolphins. For all the hype surrounding big receivers, Matthews — an athletic 6-foot-3, 212 pounds — has somehow slid a bit under the radar. He scored 24 touchdowns for the Commodores. That he is the cousin of Jerry Rice may not matter in reality, but it will not hurt his perceived value.

Strengths: Can be effective from any spot on the field. Able to find openings due to his exceptional route-running, even when faced with physical cornerbacks at the line. Adjusts well to the ball downfield and gets his body in position for the catch. Should be better after the catch than he really had the opportunity to be in Vanderbilt’s offense; the 4.46 speed is no fluke. Had no issues handling the No. 1 receiver role against SEC competition, with the aforementioned shaky QB play. Good height, strength and leaping ability, all factors that should allow him to do some damage in the red zone. Solid hands.

Weaknesses: May not project as a No. 1 option in the pros unless he really adds some muscle or better translates that speed to stretch the field. Considering how many passes he plucks from defenders, Matthews does occasionally make some frustrating drops. NFL corners may have more success jamming him at the line. Is his ceiling any higher than where he’s at right now? Matthews should be a productive pro, but teams may be hesitant to project him out as a superstar.

Conclusion: Matthews will draw a lot of Keenan Allen comparisons (including 50 percent of one below) because, similar to the Chargers’ rookie sensation, he does not necessarily blow you away on film, but all the traits are there to be a reliable NFL receiver from the get-go. Where that scouting report falls in line with a flashy class of receivers will be interesting to follow as the draft approaches.

NFL player comparison: A mix of Brian Hartline, Miami Dolphins (4th round, 2009, Ohio State) and Keenan Allen, San Diego Chargers (3rd round, 2013, California)

 

[Faust]

2014 NFL Draft Profile: Jordan Matthews, WR Vanderbilt

 

[Faust]

Daily draft dish: Jordan's drops

By Rich Cimini | ESPNNewYork.com

Every morning, from now until draft day (May 8), we'll provide a draft factoid, courtesy of ESPN Stats & Information. We'll keep it New York Jets-centric, sticking to team needs, possible selections, trends, etc.

Vanderbilt's Jordan Matthews is a big, fast, smart and productive wide receiver, yet he hasn't garnered much first-round buzz. Many scouts project him as a second-round choice, certainly a possibility for the Jets at No. 49. So why isn't he getting more love?

Here's why: Matthews had the second-most drops (10) of any receiver last season in a BCS automatic-qualifier conference (AQ). Only Utah’s Dres Anderson had more drops (11). Matthews also accumulated a lot of his production on screen passes, as he led all AQ receivers with 44 catches for 421 yards on screen passes last season.

 

[Milkman]

That's interesting because Watkins accumulated a lot of his production on screen passes as well but he's the consensus #1wr in this draft and a can't miss prospect by many.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

I'm still not sure where I rank Matthews, he's a tough player to evaluate. For me he's fluctuated between 3 and 8 among WRs. This is interesting:

If you compare Matthews to Mike Evans or Sammy Watkins. Evans had the benefit of working with a QB who may be the #1 overall pick in the NFL Draft. Watkins worked with one of the better, faster-paced offenses in college...and with a nice college QB. Whereas Matthews got to work with three QBs who combined for 15 TDs/16 INTs though the air in 2013.Matthews-Evans-Watkins in-conference performance comparison in 2013:

9.5 rec., 113.4 yards, 0.25 TDs per game = Jordan Matthews in the SEC

5.8 rec., 122.5 yards, 1.13 TDs per game = Mike Evans in the SEC

7.8 rec., 117.5 yards, 1.00 TDs per game = Sammy Watkins in the ACC

Obviously, Matthews has performance numbers that equal or blow away the others until you get to the TDs per game. Remember, Matthews was stuck with junk at QB. For the entire 2013 season, when you look at the proportion of their QBs TD passes caught...you may be more impressed with Matthews. The percentage of their QBs TD passes caught this past season:

46.7% = Matthews, Vandy

30.7% = Watkins, Clemson

30.0% = Evans, Texas A&M

Evans and Matthews had two opponents in common in 2013: Missouri and Ole Miss. Their per game comparisons versus those two opponents:

8.5 rec., 150.5 yards, 1.00 TDs per game = Matthews

4.0 rec., 27.0 yards, 0.00 TDs per game = Evans

 

[werdnoynek]

That's interesting because Watkins accumulated a lot of his production on screen passes as well but he's the consensus #1wr in this draft and a can't miss prospect by many.

You seemed to have skimmed over the part about drops... go figure.

 

[Milkman]

That's interesting because Watkins accumulated a lot of his production on screen passes as well but he's the consensus #1wr in this draft and a can't miss prospect by many.

You seemed to have skimmed over the part about drops... go figure.

See the post above yours. Matthews hands are fine.

Also it still doesn't change the fact that one of the reasons they downgrade Matthews is he caught a lot of screen passes. These same people completely disregard that Watkins caught a lot of screen passes too. Why is that? Is it because they already made their mind up Watkins is the best WR in this draft class. Screen passes be damned?

 

[werdnoynek]

That's interesting because Watkins accumulated a lot of his production on screen passes as well but he's the consensus #1wr in this draft and a can't miss prospect by many.

You seemed to have skimmed over the part about drops... go figure.

See the post above yours. Matthews hands are fine.

So drops don't bother you when it comes to WR prospects?

 

[Milkman]

I think he has great/elite hands. Bad QB play.

 

[werdnoynek]

I think he has great/elite hands. Bad QB play.

What about the drops though. Drops are catchable balls... what does that have to do with bad QB's?

Can someone have great/elite hands, yet still have one of the worst drop rates in this class?

 

[Milkman]

It's a fair question but people define catchable balls differently. I don't have his drop rate that high.

 

[werdnoynek]

Ignoring the drops, he just looks like an oversized slot receiver to me. As Bloom pointed out - he can find the holes in a zone with ease, but struggles against man coverage. He's built like an outside receiver but doesn't play like one. Could he develop into one? Maybe... but watching him play, I'd bet against it. If you're drafting him because you think he's going to be a stud in the NFL, I think you're going to be way off the mark. If you draft him with the idea that he could develop into a solid #2 guy and maybe a top 20 performer, I could get behind that.

 

[LawFitz]

Jordan Matthews -

Height: 6031

Weight: 212
40 Yrd Dash: 4.46
20 Yrd Dash:
10 Yrd Dash: 225 Lb. Bench Reps: 21
Vertical Jump: 35 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'00"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.18
3-Cone Drill: 6.95

Sammy Watkins -

Height: 6006
Weight: 211
40 Yrd Dash: 4.43
20 Yrd Dash:
10 Yrd Dash: 225 Lb. Bench Reps: 16
Vertical Jump: 34
Broad Jump: 10'06"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.34
3-Cone Drill: 6.95

Mike Evans -

Height: 6046
Weight: 231
40 Yrd Dash: 4.53
20 Yrd Dash:
10 Yrd Dash: 225 Lb. Bench Reps: 12
Vertical Jump: 37
Broad Jump:
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.26
3-Cone Drill: 7.08

Odell Beckham Jr. -

Height: 5112
Weight: 198
40 Yrd Dash: 4.43
20 Yrd Dash:
10 Yrd Dash: 225 Lb. Bench Reps: 07
Vertical Jump: 38 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'02"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 3.94
3-Cone Drill: 6.69

Marqise Lee -

Combine Results

Height: 5116
Weight: 192
40 Yrd Dash: 4.52
20 Yrd Dash:
10 Yrd Dash: 225 Lb. Bench Reps:
Vertical Jump: 38
Broad Jump: 10'07"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.01
3-Cone Drill:

Pro Day Results
Height: 5116
Weight: 192
40 Yrd Dash:
20 Yrd Dash:
10 Yrd Dash: 225 Lb. Bench Reps: 11
Vertical Jump:
Broad Jump:
20 Yrd Shuttle:
3-Cone Drill: 6.96

 

[Milkman]

I respect your opinion and never take any of the back and forth personally here. I enjoy it really. That being said Matthews is the all time leader in receptions in the SEC. He can catch the football. I know bulk stats aren't the best to go by but for him to do that lining up against future NFL CBs every week, with a crap QB, and being the only offensive threat on the team is very impressive. imo He has all the makings of a future #1 wr in the NFL. Size, speed, hands, strength, and work ethic.

Throws up on the field 30 seconds earlier and then makes this catch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adzFVhNqFwo#t=333

That's 4th and 18 and guess what? Everybody knows who they are throwing the football to.

 

[werdnoynek]

I respect your opinion and never take any of the back and forth personally here. I enjoy it really. That being said Matthews is the all time leader in receptions in the SEC. He can catch the football. I know bulk stats aren't the best to go by but for him to do that lining up against future NFL CBs every week, with a crap QB, and being the only offensive threat on the team is very impressive. imo He has all the makings of a future #1 wr in the NFL. Size, speed, hands, strength, and work ethic.

Throws up on the field 30 seconds earlier and then makes this catch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adzFVhNqFwo#t=333

That's 4th and 18 and guess what? Everybody knows who they are throwing the football to.

Then we fast forward to 6:33 and we see one of his characteristic drops which causes an INT. Fancy that.

 

[Milkman]

lol yeah he was terrible that game.

10-178-1

I mean if he doesn't do what he did they lose by 20.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

I respect your opinion and never take any of the back and forth personally here. I enjoy it really. That being said Matthews is the all time leader in receptions in the SEC. He can catch the football. I know bulk stats aren't the best to go by but for him to do that lining up against future NFL CBs every week, with a crap QB, and being the only offensive threat on the team is very impressive. imo He has all the makings of a future #1 wr in the NFL. Size, speed, hands, strength, and work ethic.

Throws up on the field 30 seconds earlier and then makes this catch.

I think you are putting too much emphasis on his drops. You act as if no other WR drops catchable balls. Every WR has dropped balls, it sorta comes with the territory.

 

[werdnoynek]

I respect your opinion and never take any of the back and forth personally here. I enjoy it really. That being said Matthews is the all time leader in receptions in the SEC. He can catch the football. I know bulk stats aren't the best to go by but for him to do that lining up against future NFL CBs every week, with a crap QB, and being the only offensive threat on the team is very impressive. imo He has all the makings of a future #1 wr in the NFL. Size, speed, hands, strength, and work ethic.

Throws up on the field 30 seconds earlier and then makes this catch.

He's above average in that category and some in here continue to say his hand's are elite. Something doesn't fit.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

I respect your opinion and never take any of the back and forth personally here. I enjoy it really. That being said Matthews is the all time leader in receptions in the SEC. He can catch the football. I know bulk stats aren't the best to go by but for him to do that lining up against future NFL CBs every week, with a crap QB, and being the only offensive threat on the team is very impressive. imo He has all the makings of a future #1 wr in the NFL. Size, speed, hands, strength, and work ethic.

Throws up on the field 30 seconds earlier and then makes this catch.

So who from this class does have elite hands in your opinion? Even the most elite hands drop balls.

 

[jurb26]

Landry has the best hands in this class IMO.

 

[Abrantes]

That's interesting because Watkins accumulated a lot of his production on screen passes as well but he's the consensus #1wr in this draft and a can't miss prospect by many.

You seemed to have skimmed over the part about drops... go figure.

See the post above yours. Matthews hands are fine.

Also it still doesn't change the fact that one of the reasons they downgrade Matthews is he caught a lot of screen passes. These same people completely disregard that Watkins caught a lot of screen passes too. Why is that? Is it because they already made their mind up Watkins is the best WR in this draft class. Screen passes be damned?

It's not "screen passes are good for one, but bad for the other". What's assessed is what the player does with the plays. Matthews isn't downgraded for catching a lot of screen passes in and of itself. He's downgraded because of what he did with those screen passes, and the assessment that if the play wasn't well-blocked, he generally couldn't make things happen on his own. On the other hand, people understand that Watkins caught plenty of screen passes, but his individual skills are evident on those plays, even when the setup doesn't work as intended.

 

[John Paul]

Matthews is still fighting pre-combine bias. What tv/internet scouts wrote about him before the combine has not gone away in spite of him proving otherwise.

He's got the physical profile, his game tape shows a smooth athlete. I think that he looks so natural at times, people's eyes are fooled and he doesn't get the physical compliments he deserves.

I wish I had a 10 split on him, but the rest looks good to me. It looks like he is going to be a value in the NFL Draft and dynasty drafts, I'm fine with that.

The most impressive part of his production is that he was the only weapon in a pedestrian passing attack in a tough conference, the only one the D had to key on, and he still produced week-in week-out. That is what I am looking for.

 

[GeeYouknit]

I have him rated as my WR4 in my rankings and I don't see that changing regardless of draft spot. This guy is a great athlete with a great skill set that will translate to the NFL pretty well. I can see his career as something similar to Stevie Johnson, by repeating 1000 yd seasons with 6-8 TD's per year. He is very fluid and knows how to get open, intelligent guy with an incredible work ethic, I can't see him as a "failure." His ceiling however is not as high as others. If he can bulk up a little and improve quickness a little he can be an elite asset for a NFL squad but without doing that, his ceiling may be capped at around 1200/10.

 

[LawFitz]

I respect your opinion and never take any of the back and forth personally here. I enjoy it really. That being said Matthews is the all time leader in receptions in the SEC. He can catch the football. I know bulk stats aren't the best to go by but for him to do that lining up against future NFL CBs every week, with a crap QB, and being the only offensive threat on the team is very impressive. imo He has all the makings of a future #1 wr in the NFL. Size, speed, hands, strength, and work ethic.

Throws up on the field 30 seconds earlier and then makes this catch.

TO used to drop a lot of passes, but that didn't stop him from becoming an elite WR.

 

[duaneok66]

milkman -

I enjoy your contribution to the pool.

Maybe I skimmed over it, but I haven't really seen you talk about the contention that Jordan cannot separate from man coverage?

Do you think he can??

 

[Brewtown]

milkman -

I enjoy your contribution to the pool.

Maybe I skimmed over it, but I haven't really seen you talk about the contention that Jordan cannot separate from man coverage?

Do you think he can??

He was double covered most of the year. I think he can....

I absolutely hate when people talk about how an athletic young, man can't run the full route tree....

This guy rolled up the SEC and ran a 4.4 40 - let's call a spade a spade...... This guy is good and talented!

 

[Milkman]

milkman -

I enjoy your contribution to the pool.

Maybe I skimmed over it, but I haven't really seen you talk about the contention that Jordan cannot separate from man coverage?

Do you think he can??

Thanks for the kind words but there is a lot of guys in this forum that know a lot more than me that don't see Matthews as a WR1. I disagree and if he falls to the second or third round he will fall in FF rookie drafts too. I don't mind I will jump on him any chance I get. If he sneaks into the first round then you'll probably have it used a top ten pick on him.

As far as separating from man check out the Florida game in 2012 http://draftbreakdown.com/video/jordan-matthews-vs-florida-2012/ . He beats man several times. He beats a 1st round DB for a TD in the game linked.

Look he's the all time SEC leader in receptions. On a team with a crap QB and no help offensively. He is not as sudden as a Watkins but he's super efficient with his movements. Great route runner. Great football IQ. Plus he's bigger and more athletic than Watkins. People say he can't separate but then nobody in the SEC could stop him. 90+ receptions two years in a row. He beat man, zone, double teams you name it.

Also when you're a legit 6'3 like Matthews separation is not "as" important. When you are 6'0 and can't jump then separating is everything.

 

[duaneok66]

thanks for the link.

I didn't quite see what you did. The TD catch was a great play but it was just one instance.

It's difficult (maybe others can do it much better) to scout WRs without the coaching tape because most of the WRs work occurs off camera (unless they happen to show a replay at a different angle).

I need to watch more.

 

[jurb26]

Yeah, I watched the link and didn't really see what milkman did, either. Actually I came away terribly unimpressed with Mathews. Seems that happens every time I watch him.

Here's what I saw vs. man coverage;

I only noticed it occurring 4 times. Once vs. a S as he was lined up in the slot. This is the play where you say he beat a 1st rounder? OK, I suppose that's true. The fact remains he beat a Safety who played horribly out of position. It was a decent route and he high pointed the ball well. Still, I'm not seeing this as a great indicator of his man beating ability. Getting your WR1 matched vs. a S 1 on 1 is a dream come true for any team. The 2nd time was a stacked WR formation where the other WR ran a clear pick creating the separation for Mathews to get open. The 3rd time was again a situation where he was lined up inside and only this time he got isolated on a LB. He beats the LB easily up the sideline on a wheel route. This should happen 100% of the time. The 4th time was the only time he displayed an ability to beat a CB. He ran a nice double move, hitch and go though I have problems with this route I won't get into now, got the CB to commit and made a nice catch down field.

Other general observations;

Had one of the worst plays of the game that cost Vandy huge momentum. Stacy broke free for a long TD run but it was called back due to Mathews holding. That play would have given Vandy a lead. It was a lazy block attempt by Mathews as he didn't attack the BpDB and let the DB initiate. Which brings me to his blocking in general. He looked like a weak blocker IMO. Seems to not like contact and is content to just get in the way of DBs as they run to the ball rather than taking the contact to them. He doesn't play with leverage when contact is made and I think this is one of his large problems beating man coverage, especially at the LOS when pressed. I like his hands and he makes most catches look easy.

 

[Milkman]

If you guy honestly think Matthews broke all those records in the SEC, while he was the only weapon on vandy, with a crap qb, against future NFL DBs, then I don't know what to tell you. I don't think he only beat zone, got lucky for 112 catches and 1300+ yards, or had every play he made blocked perfectly.

 

[Biabreakable]

I think suggesting that Matthews has a problem with catching the ball is an exaggeration. As far as I can tell he caught close to 100 in 2012 and 2013 seasons. In 13 games. That tells me he can catch, and from what I have seen he catch one handed, over his shoulder, pretty much any catch you might want a player to make, even when the catch is contested.

I also wanted to say something about the criticism that he got too many easy screen passes.

Some receivers get a lot of screen passes because they are not good at running any other routes. This is not the case with Matthews who is often mentioned as a solid route runner with a variety of ways he can beat a defense.

Some times the reason for a screen pass may be because of the QB being able to complete that easier than a lot of other throws. This seems more likely the case here in regards to Matthews.

I will give an example. Percy Harvin with the Vikings. Harvin is not the best route runner at WR in the NFL but when he played with Favre, Harvin ran a variety of different routes and more importantly he was targeted downfield, over the middle as well as slants/screens.

Percy Harvin with Christian Ponder on the other hand? The types of throws Ponder to get to Harvin were limited to screens and dump off passes for the most part. So are you going to fault the WR for limitations caused by the QB/offensive system?

Here is a nice blog I found on Matthews - http://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/1y5mp4/draft_cutups_6_jordan_matthews_wr_vanderbilt/

Thoughts and Observations

• Has very ideal WR frame and knows how to use his body extremely well. Can take contact and still make the catch. Could easily add 5-10 lbs.
• Was moved around the formation into a variety of places, especially in 2013 when he was the sole receiving threat. To avoid double teams, he was put into motion, lined up in the slot, or even lined up very tight to the formation.
• Extremely smart WR. Great ability to read defenses and to understand how to run against either man or zone defenses. Was brutal against zones.
• Very good polished route runner. Gets into and out of breaks without losing much speed. Leverages defenders in a particular direction and then cuts against that on deeper routes. Feels gaps in zone defenses and and understands what to do in them. Knows how to speed up or slow down in his routes. On sideline routes, keeps solid buffer between himself and the sideline; ie., does not get trapped at the boundary.
• Has deceptively good football speed but it is not great speed. Has good but not great burst. Gets off the line well, gets into and out of breaks well, but not explosive. Creates separation with route running rather than running away from defenders.
• Is able to catch the ball in the air in full stride; when the ball is placed well, he can accelerate smoothly after the catch. Seems to have a better 1st-to-2nd gear acceleration rather than initial off-the-line burst.
• Good leaping ability and long arms. He will go up and get a ball in a crowd.
• Has good strength to go after balls traffic, but does not have tackle-breaking strength. Was taken down relatively easily by first tackler and was ankle-tackled quite often. His long, thin legs may have something to do with it. Also is not an elusive runner and will not make defenders miss.
• Tracks the ball in the air extremely well. On deep balls, has a great sense to know exactly where the ball is going very early in the ball's arc and is able to adjust to it.
• Massive hands. He is a reliable pass catcher. Had a few drops, but most were on mis-thrown balls and difficult catches; many passes were thrown behind him or just at the edge of his reach. The Game-Ender against Ole Miss is a notable exception.
• Reportedly a very hard-worker.
• Very neutral stutter steps, making it difficult to determine in which direction he will break.
• In 2012, he was part of a very potent Vanderbilt offense featuring 4 NFL-caliber players (Zac Stacy, Jordan Rodgers, and WR Chris Boyd). With Aaron Rodgers' younger brother throwing the ball, Matthews was very effective in a variety of routes, including numerous downfield ones.
• In 2013, Stacy, Rodgers, and Boyd were all gone and Matthews' QBs were Austyn Cartar-Samuels, Josh Grady, and Patton Robinette. In this offense, Matthews was the focal point. As the year progressed and backup QBs were playing, Matthews ran more short routes and lots of WR screens.
• Had VERY inconsistent QB play; sometimes it was outright poor play. Even Jordan Rodgers had trouble with consistency and accuracy. With an accurate QB in the NFL, Matthews might explode.
• Uses his big frame well and is physical in a finesse way. He is excellent and positioning his body against a defender to create space for a reception. He will ward off a defender, slow down just enough so that he can reach the ball and the defender cannot. His use of his body with the ball in the air is excellent. However, at times, he very obviously uses his arm to push off on the defender, though he benefitted from no-calls.
• Ran shallow drag routes and slants in the middle. Went up for balls in the middle and took some punishment, but wasn't asked to do so very often.
• Perhaps the most polished and fundamentally sound of the WRs. Think of him as the Tim Duncan of WRs. Is not a physical freak that will instantly amaze you; his measurables should be very good, but it won't be at ridiculous levels like (say) Sammy Watkins or perhaps Kelvin Benjamin. He does everything very well and game knowledge/football IQ, skills, and Pro Readiness are top level.
• He's not flashy. He wins with skill over raw physical ability, like Larry Fitzgerald. Fitz was 6'2", 218lbs, and ran 4.6, but was as polished a WR as there has been at the college level. Matthews has similar traits and if he became the best WR out of this class, I would not be surprised.

Cutups

There are two sets of cutups here. The first are from the just-ended 2013 season. Of those 13 games, there are cutups for 10 of them here, missing only Austin Peay, Mizzou, and Wake Forest.

The second set are from the 2012 season which featured a more effective and reliable offense.

See the link for the cutups. Most of the games from 2012-2013 are posted there.