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QB Zach Wilson, DEN (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
wgoldsph
Footballguy
Translation "we're starting to realize we made a big mistake and hope that an injury will cover it up in the short term."
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
wgoldsph
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Considering Big Ben is likely out week 11 & Stafford is on the BYE (gulp) Wilson returning could actually be the difference maker in my surviving another week in the subscriber contest.
wgoldsph
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Fields hasn't exactly looked bulletproof and had one good half this year. So has Zach, against the Titans. It's way, way too early to tell which QB is better. We can guess, but anybody doing victory laps is silly.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Never understood that either. Dude had one good year...playing a lousy schedule....with a roster full of super mature 23 year old teammates who were uniquely equipped (just based on that maturity) to play during a pandemic. Every team they played against had a bunch of unfocused 19-20 year olds who were all bummed out because they couldn't go out and chase girls after the game. Meanwhile, Wilson's LDS teammates just went about their business and went home to their wives.
As a Jet fan, I seriously hope I'm wrong (because if I'm right, nothing the franchise does for the next 3 years matters at all) but this one stunk to me from the beginning. IMO, the kid figured out how to do a poor mans Mahomes impression and everyone who missed the eval on the real Mahomes jumped in with 2 feet to avoid looking stupid again.
The thing that worries me the most is that short/mid range accuracy was supposedly one of his greatest strengths....but the kid struggled to complete pretty much anything within 10 yards of the LOS when he was in there. Even simple screen passes were a challenge.
Just praying that the rest, the emergence of Moore and some slightly better play calling get him on track. Just have to hope that the inaccuracy was the result of mechanical breakdowns (maybe some happy feet based on the beating he took the first 2 weeks) that can be fixed.
edit: Fields obviously hasn't looked great either. But his "badness" seems like more like an elite athlete who has always gotten by based on his natural ability finding his way at the highest level. Maybe he does...maybe he doesn't. But it wont be because he's not physically capable. Wilson just might not have much besides one or 2 "off platform throws" every couple of games.
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Fields has been trending up and had multiple impressive plays both running and throwing. I think it's more than a half, but I won't quibble. I've seen some of Zach's highlights and lowlights and agree it's too early to tell who'll be a franchise QB or not. Zach can make some throws that few can. The question for me is will Wilson continue to make Moore excel. I'm a believer in LaFluer and the passing game. He had a few good schemed plays vs Miami.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Haven't followed or seen the kid but heard Greenie say something derogatory about him and then see this.
Harsh.
----------------------------------------------------
Sigmund Bloom@SigmundBloom
“His rookie film doesn’t remind me of Baker Mayfield or Josh Allen, let alone Kyler Murray or Justin Herbert.
It reminds me of Daniel Jones or Dwayne Haskins.”
-----------------------------------------------------
Benjamin Solak@BenjaminSolak
Well guys. It was time. It had to be done. We had to talk about Zach Wilson. On the guy billed as Mahomes or Rodgers, who looks like anything but earlier in his NFL career. What can get better, and whether or not it will, moving forward:
Zach Wilson’s Been Bad. What Does that Mean for His NFL Future?
Harsh.
----------------------------------------------------
Sigmund Bloom@SigmundBloom
“His rookie film doesn’t remind me of Baker Mayfield or Josh Allen, let alone Kyler Murray or Justin Herbert.
It reminds me of Daniel Jones or Dwayne Haskins.”
-----------------------------------------------------
Benjamin Solak@BenjaminSolak
Well guys. It was time. It had to be done. We had to talk about Zach Wilson. On the guy billed as Mahomes or Rodgers, who looks like anything but earlier in his NFL career. What can get better, and whether or not it will, moving forward:
Zach Wilson’s Been Bad. What Does that Mean for His NFL Future?
Brutal.
If you've watched any game he's played this year, these evaluations are accurate. In my opinion he's been spectacularly bad. But in a weird way that gives me optimism that if he puts the work in and improves on all those things (fundamentals, footwork, studying, etc.) that he can turn it around. I guess because I don't think it's possible that his talent can be so different going from college to pro, so it must be that he's just in over his head and can work himself out of the hole. I think he's supposed to be a good worker, right?
Foosball God
Foos
Getting compared to Mahomes and Rodgers, two QBs that got the benefit of sitting for a year or more... This kid got thrown into the fire.
johnnyboy8102
Footballguy
He is very athletic and has a great arm but makes simple passes extremely difficult and never seems to get easy, clean completions.
In college he played a lot like Johnny Manziel with a stronger arm.
In dynasty I am holding for 1 more year and then figuring out what to do at that point.
In college he played a lot like Johnny Manziel with a stronger arm.
In dynasty I am holding for 1 more year and then figuring out what to do at that point.
Futeki
Footballguy
When I read the pro assessments of Wilson, it screamed ADHD. Not the common (mis-)portrayal in media.
Come to find out, Zach Wilson does have ADHD
DISCLAIMER: I'm not a trained neuroscientist, just a polymath with neurology being one of my interests.
To keep this less long, I won't go into the underlying causes.
He would have been much better off learning for a year. That lack of learning has multiple negative impacts.
1. ADHD requires more repetitions to integrate what is learned (often with a better understanding).
2. Everyone does better at sports if the don't have to think, but it is exacerbated for those with ADHD. [Think "meta-thinking" - difficulty fully getting into the task at hand].
3. The problems on "easy" throws is that ADHD is associated with "clumsy". That means something a bit different. Gross motor skills are fine. It's about being fully "wired in" down to the fingertips. Give an ADHD person added reason to be in their head and not "just do it", and they'll be less likely to be fully wired in. The inexplicably bad easy throws are not actually inexplicable.
4. Self-stress is a means of gaining the needed focus, but it causes delayed reactions. The result is being a beat late. With all of these negatives, he will be even more likely to do it.
Medication is helpful in many areas, but it does not appear to directly help with being more "wired in".
The plus side is he is reportedly a hard worker. He'll have plenty of time to get things figured out for next year. ADHD has positives. Their poor filters (particularly with the prominent visual field) gives them constant training on "seeing the entire field", but it comes in handy as a QB (or safety)! You've seen the natural talent when he was "wired in" and just doing it (college/pre-season).
It's not a given he'll get it figured out. But if he does, the difference will be tremendous.
Come to find out, Zach Wilson does have ADHD
DISCLAIMER: I'm not a trained neuroscientist, just a polymath with neurology being one of my interests.
To keep this less long, I won't go into the underlying causes.
He would have been much better off learning for a year. That lack of learning has multiple negative impacts.
1. ADHD requires more repetitions to integrate what is learned (often with a better understanding).
2. Everyone does better at sports if the don't have to think, but it is exacerbated for those with ADHD. [Think "meta-thinking" - difficulty fully getting into the task at hand].
3. The problems on "easy" throws is that ADHD is associated with "clumsy". That means something a bit different. Gross motor skills are fine. It's about being fully "wired in" down to the fingertips. Give an ADHD person added reason to be in their head and not "just do it", and they'll be less likely to be fully wired in. The inexplicably bad easy throws are not actually inexplicable.
4. Self-stress is a means of gaining the needed focus, but it causes delayed reactions. The result is being a beat late. With all of these negatives, he will be even more likely to do it.
Medication is helpful in many areas, but it does not appear to directly help with being more "wired in".
The plus side is he is reportedly a hard worker. He'll have plenty of time to get things figured out for next year. ADHD has positives. Their poor filters (particularly with the prominent visual field) gives them constant training on "seeing the entire field", but it comes in handy as a QB (or safety)! You've seen the natural talent when he was "wired in" and just doing it (college/pre-season).
It's not a given he'll get it figured out. But if he does, the difference will be tremendous.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
I mean this isnt shocking - he played at BYU against low grade competition. He had some preseason hype but this was about what most JEts fans were expecting....except for the horrific display against the Saints but that Def even made Brady look bad.
Give the kid a full offseason with QB coach, added OL and WR weapons and lets see how he is next year. If he looks the same then the worrying can start.
Give the kid a full offseason with QB coach, added OL and WR weapons and lets see how he is next year. If he looks the same then the worrying can start.
ffmail4me
Footballguy
So Jets fans who watched this kid all year, do you think he's a legit NFL franchise QB? What kind of expectations for year 2? Trying to decide his worth and if he's a draft worthy #2 QB in a flex league. His numbers don't look very good this year that's for sure, but I also realize the team was a mess with little bright spots on the offense...
TLEF316
Footballguy
He certainly has some arm talent. Can make some really nice throws as times (the TD he threw yesterday was a laser). He's a decent athlete. His ball security improved a lot after he came back from injury (in terms of throwing picks). I won't knock him too much for his stats, as they were decimated by injury (on the O-line and at WR) down the stretch.
But he's on the smaller side and his mechanics on short throws are REALLY sloppy (which has led to a lot of missed layups). Some of that is from the poor protection, but I really think he got away with a LOT at BYU last year. They played a bad schedule and they enjoyed a significant talent,experience and maturity advantage over all the teams they played.
As a Jets fan, I'm not writing him off. I feel better after the Tampa Bay performance and some other stuff he showed in December. But I'm still very worried (as I was before the season started) that he's the product of a weak schedule and a lot of "wow factor" based on all the off-platform throws he completed at BYU.(and his pro day) As a Jets fan, I'd much rather have a QB that completes 20 boring passes every week rather than 1 "OMG< DID YOU SEE THAT THROW!!!!?!?!" pass a month.
But he's on the smaller side and his mechanics on short throws are REALLY sloppy (which has led to a lot of missed layups). Some of that is from the poor protection, but I really think he got away with a LOT at BYU last year. They played a bad schedule and they enjoyed a significant talent,experience and maturity advantage over all the teams they played.
As a Jets fan, I'm not writing him off. I feel better after the Tampa Bay performance and some other stuff he showed in December. But I'm still very worried (as I was before the season started) that he's the product of a weak schedule and a lot of "wow factor" based on all the off-platform throws he completed at BYU.(and his pro day) As a Jets fan, I'd much rather have a QB that completes 20 boring passes every week rather than 1 "OMG< DID YOU SEE THAT THROW!!!!?!?!" pass a month.
Recently, I read somewhere that the Jets had hired John Beck during the season which correlated to the improvements he showed at the end of the season. Agree with @zed2283 that a focus on fundamentals this off-season should be compulsory if he is to have a chance to reach his potential.
Saw this interesting video by JT O'Sullivan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8vxBYTGyBQ
With Wilson rostered in a couple of dynasty superflex leagues, I am hoping that he improves into a reliable QB2 in 2022 and beyond. It will be interesting to if/how the Jets use either/both of their top 10 draft picks to support Wilson.
Saw this interesting video by JT O'Sullivan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8vxBYTGyBQ
With Wilson rostered in a couple of dynasty superflex leagues, I am hoping that he improves into a reliable QB2 in 2022 and beyond. It will be interesting to if/how the Jets use either/both of their top 10 draft picks to support Wilson.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Not a Jets fan, but I did invest in him as a QB2 in a SF dynasty league.
I love his leg talent, and I feel like the arm will come along as he acclimates to the game. He has all the tools - it's a shame & a tragedy that he lost his QB coach Greg Knapp to a horrific accident. And not to make light of that tragedy at all, because this certainly isn't the biggest take-away from his death, but peripherally I have to believe that tragedy hurt Wilson's development this season.
Hopefully with an off-season to both study & practice, and a draft to shore up some needs of the team, Wilson can progress in his 2nd season. Based on the uptick in production he showed in the couple of games after he returned from his injury, I feel like he's capable of making a decent jump.
Todem
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Excellent news. Hopefully with meaningful results. I could see him take a significant step forward in year 2.
I have high hopes for Wilson, this season and beyond. From all the pre-draft stories about him driving 10 hours to work with John Beck and working food delivery to earn gas money and being a film geek to the stories this off-season about him flying out to his receivers to work out with them rather than simply inviting them to work out with him, I think he has the right mentality to take that next step. I think staying in the same system is huge for a young QB and having Beck really know what the Jets want and expect from the position can really help Wilson refine his off-season work. Hopefully it translates onto the field. The game benefits from more good QBs.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Jet fan here - but no real bias - I was hard on Darnold - Wilson's price is still low based on the anti Jet bias - but now is the time to get him - odds are Jets land a few more weapons for him at the draft - maybe even a big time WR - they are doing him right and giving him every chance to succeed. All it takes is one good season to make him much more difficult to trade for - Id strike now if you are a fan while the price is low.
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cloppbeast
Footballguy
A lot of fluff pieces for Wilson. What were people saying about Darnold when he was for the Jets?
sheerterror
Footballguy
A lot of talk about how young and nice he was. Which he still is. So he's got that going for him.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
cloppbeast
Footballguy
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Kiddnets
Footballguy
I think most Jets fans already see the difference between Sam and Wilson -Sam had his moments but looked like a deer in headlights way too much....Wilson has shown far more glimpses of having franchise QB traits. In addition, nothing as to the QBs themselves but Wilson has WAY more to work with than Darnold ever did. He is set up to succeed - if he fails its on him. I personally think he takes a big step forward - nowhere near Burrow and Herbert but at least establishes as a legit franchise QB this year.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Jets fans would also say things like "What the ####?', "gosh darnit", and "that stupid mother####er" a lot when watching him play.
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TLEF316
Footballguy
Not sure we'll ever know whether Sam darnold was always bad or whether the Jets just ruined him. I tend to lean towards "always bad", but the idiot adam gase(and the lack of talent around him) obviously didn't help.
I was probably the biggest Zach Wilson skeptic among the Jets fans on this board. While I feel SLIGHTLY better than I did a year ago (based on the way Zach finished the season) I'm still worried. I saw a LOT of bad stuff last year (mainly with short range accuracy) and it needs to show drastic improvement this year. If he's still missing 7 yard patterns on a consistent basis this year, the Jets are in trouble.
I was probably the biggest Zach Wilson skeptic among the Jets fans on this board. While I feel SLIGHTLY better than I did a year ago (based on the way Zach finished the season) I'm still worried. I saw a LOT of bad stuff last year (mainly with short range accuracy) and it needs to show drastic improvement this year. If he's still missing 7 yard patterns on a consistent basis this year, the Jets are in trouble.
steelcityman
Footballguy
I took ZW in my rookie/FA draft. Late 3rd rd. Have Mac Jones, but Traquon Thorton and DeVante Parker....you serious Bill? They are a run first, second and third team. I think ZW has a lot more potential, and some nice young WRs to grow with.
Herbert my QB1, so its basically an audition for my QB2 during camps.
Herbert my QB1, so its basically an audition for my QB2 during camps.
