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***OFFICIAL*** Washington Commanders Thread (4 Viewers)

MikeApf said:
DGreen I know you definitely understand football, so I'm not challenging your thinking but just wondering what you would do in this situation to address offensive line.  I feel with a young QB we are trying to develop, there is some level of urgency to provide a running game and QB protection in 2020 or we may ruin the kid.  So, I am not saying OL simply to "win now" but even to develop for the future.  You know?
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@ffmail4me and @Sidewinder16 had some good input here. I'll also add that "need" is a short-term thing. DE/Edge rusher may not be a need right now, but it could be next year or the year after or the year after. At some point it will be a need. But, if you draft a great talent like Chase Young (let's just assume he is a great talent who will succeed) then you've helped that future need even if it's not a current need.

Think about all the teams that draft for that all-important QB need. So many teams reach for a QB because that's what they need. They pass on some great players just to try to get that QB. And then the next year they still have a need at QB and they have a need at whatever player position they passed on the year before. Or, on the flip side, notice how GB drafted Aaron Rodgers despite keeping Favre around another three years. They used their first round pick on BPA and he sat for three years. Had they focused on immediate need, who knows where the franchise would've been post-Favre.

"Need" is a good tiebreaker in the draft. For example, if the Redskins have Chase Young and the best LT, whoever that is, with similar ratings and they are basically indifferent to who they want, and they believe they can't trade down and still get the LT, then go ahead and draft him. It's still a BPA situation with a "need" tiebreaker. BPA is Best Player Available, but it doesn't have to be singular. It can be pick one of the Best Players Available because the reality is that some players are probably rated so closely that they are virtually equal in value.

I'm a fan of using FA to fill needs. But, I'll also say I don't think the Redskins should be looking at "need" only in terms of positions. Their "need" is for youth and culture change. They have some good pieces to start a rebuild and I think they should look for even more.

 
MikeApf said:
I get the BPA argument but I fear if we go Young we're gonna have NOTHING at offensive line.
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Also, I think this line of thinking is diminishing the value of everything that's not your #1 pick. They still have five other picks in the 2020 draft, FA, trades, and future drafts. They don't have to solve all their problems with that first pick, nor can they.

And, I'm ok with trading down if that's what's the most valuable. I don't know what would make it worth it or could reasonably happen, but in theory I have no problem with trading down. If they really, really like someone above Chase Young and think the rest of the league doesn't, then they should definitely trade down.

 
dgreen said:
I heard he started today's PC off with "Happy Thanksgiving".
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Yeah, that was weird when I first heard about it (I didn’t catch that part live) but I don’t think it’s some kind of bumbling misspeak that most people seem to be making it out to be.  I think it’s a poorly told joke.

There is one video circulating that includes Rivera off to the side when Dan gets to the podium.  When he starts off with that phrase, Rivera laughs in a “knowing” way. He very much seems to be laughing “with” Dan, not at him. I thought there must have been some sort of inside joke between them. I double checked when Rivera got fired (after the WAS/CAR game) and it was the game right after Thanksgiving. IMHO, Dan was trying to reference that in a joking manner but it really wasn’t done in a way that everyone (anyone) would get the reference. 

 
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Sidewinder16 said:
Yeah, that was weird when I first heard about it (I didn’t catch that part live) but I don’t think it’s some kind of bumbling misspeak that most people seem to be making it out to be.  I think it’s a poorly told joke.

There is one video circulating that includes Rivera off to the side when Dan gets to the podium.  When he starts off with that phrase, Rivera laughs in a “knowing” way. He very much seems to be laughing “with” Dan, not at him. I thought there must have been some sort of inside joke between them. I double checked when Rivera got fired (after the WAS/CAR game) and it was the game right after Thanksgiving. IMHO, Dan was trying to reference that in a joking manner but it really wasn’t done in a way that everyone (anyone) would get the reference. 
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yea it was a joke about that game.  Someone confirmed it.

 
dgreen said:
I left Kerrigan out of the above depth chart. Saw a tweet where Kerrigan said he'd have to add 10-15 pounds to play a 4-3 DE. He's due $11m (?) in his last year on his contract. If they need/want that cap room, I'm afraid he's gone since he's starting to decline and he's not a great fit for the 4-3. But, he has made it clear he wants to be here. So maybe he's willing to take a significant cut and they can just use him as a pass rush specialist in nickel/dime and not sue him at all in 4-3.
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I can understand them trading him or asking him to take a salary cut, and I agree they should not sue him. That would just be too harsh. ;)

 
Six days after being fired, Snyder and Rivera spoke for 40 minutes on the phone, and then the next day for 20 more minutes. They met in person shortly thereafter. After that meeting, Rivera met with Gibbs. The Hall of Fame coach gave Rivera this message: Snyder is passionate and will do what you ask, but you must be upfront with him and keep him in the loop.

Overall, Snyder and Rivera met three times at undisclosed locations totaling 35 hours
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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28411228/redskins-ron-rivera-envision-right-fit-new-era-begins-dc

 
He's not promising Haskins the starting job, saying he has to earn it. And I think that's exactly what will happen. Got a kick out of this:

Hogs Haven‏Verified account @HogsHaven

"We had Dwayne Haskins Jr. rated as a 1st round pick" @RiverboatRonHC on @team980
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JP Finlay‏Verified account @JPFinlayNBCS 7h7 hours ago

Rivera says he’s going to collaborate with all the personnel people because of “what they’ve done in the last 3 drafts.” Bodes well for scouts and Alex Santos/Kyle Smith
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I like Rivera's attitude and players seem to like him.  Del Rio is a HUGE improvement even if he turns out to be only average.  Manusky was easily the weakest link on the old coaching staff.  O'Connell as OC is fine.  I'd let him walk and get the whole coaching staff out of the building, but I could care less either way.  I think much of that disfunction was on Gruden's practice habits combined with some weird decisions by Bruce.

Good coaches can overcome bad stuff above them.  No owner is perfect, and other than Mike Brown, Snyder is possibly the worst in the league.  But all organizations - football, corporate and otherwise - have to overcome bad decisions from above to a certain extent.

I assume they are going to promote some talent scouts from within to more important roles.  And Rivera will have a big say in the personnel.  That's fine by me.  Just wanted Bruce gone for like 5+ years.

At least there is some light at the end of the tunnel, where only a week ago there was complete darkness.  I may be fooled yet again, but with Bruce gone, I will at least make watching more than 5 minutes of a game part of my Sunday routine again.

 
I'll br interested to see if Rivera remains engaged with the media between now and the draft, and whether he then clams up around draft time. Most teams clam up a bit around draft time, but if someone besides Rivera and the scouting staff is making decisions I think there will be a "tell" in what's revealed and not revealed in the media coverage.

I don't picture Rivera as being a bull ####ter.

 
fatness said:
I'll br interested to see if Rivera remains engaged with the media between now and the draft, and whether he then clams up around draft time. Most teams clam up a bit around draft time, but if someone besides Rivera and the scouting staff is making decisions I think there will be a "tell" in what's revealed and not revealed in the media coverage.

I don't picture Rivera as being a bull ####ter.
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If I was guessing they keep D Wiliams and E Shaeffer with the exact same titles, and let Williams do all the personnel Q&As.  They really don't need a "GM" if they do that.  Williams can be the talking head.  He does fine at it.  Better than I ever thought he would.  After the dog and pony show, I don't think you'll see Rivera until right at the draft.  But he'll be integral behind the scenes.

They do need a team President/COO to oversee tickets, finances, stadium, game experience, etc.  Perhaps someone from within.  Frankly I think this is where Allen screwed things up more than even on the field.  People hate going to FedEx even if the team was 12-4.  It's terrible and they treat fans like crap.  FedEx will never be good due to its location so far away from Ashburn where the players live and practice, and so far away from where the majority of DC money is.  But they need a strategy to make it at least palpable.  

Trent is the biggest factor because if he's out, they need to get him traded and find a solution.  Plus there's another wrench that could be thrown in this come August if Alex Smith comes back and is clearly better than Haskins.  For the sake of the next 3 years I hope that doesn't happen.  But it's certainly possible.  I'm sure developing Haskins was important to Snyder hiring Rivera, but if Smith is clearly better Rivera isn't going to be forced into playing him IMO.

 
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dgreen said:
And, I'm ok with trading down if that's what's the most valuable. I don't know what would make it worth it or could reasonably happen, but in theory I have no problem with trading down. If they really, really like someone above Chase Young and think the rest of the league doesn't, then they should definitely trade down.
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I think it's very likely that the upcoming scouting and combine process will create massive headwinds behind at least two QBs.  The Redskins are in a perfect position to take advantage of that hype and should be looking to move back a reasonable number of picks in exchange for a pretty massive haul in return.

 
Rivera had the ping-pong and shuffleboard tables removed from the locker room.

edited for humor:

Matthew Paras‏ @Matthew_Paras

In honor of the Redskins scrapping their ping pong table, here is a ranking of the best ping pong players in the locker room: 1. Tress Way 2. Nick Sundberg 3. Dustin Hopkins 4. Case Keenum (started playing more after benched) 5. Jonathan Allen (only saw him play once, was good)
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Brunell4MVP said:
Plus there's another wrench that could be thrown in this come August if Alex Smith comes back and is clearly better than Haskins.  For the sake of the next 3 years I hope that doesn't happen.  But it's certainly possible.  I'm sure developing Haskins was important to Snyder hiring Rivera, but if Smith is clearly better Rivera isn't going to be forced into playing him IMO.
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I think there's less than a 20% chance Smith will ever be cleared to play again. If he is, I think there's less than a 50% chance he'll outplay Haskins. Smith was struggling in the (new for him) offense when he got hurt. Haskins is picking that offense up, with a noticeable improvement in the last several games of the year. By the time Smith is cleared (if that happens) Haskins will have even more experience, and he makes throws Smith cannot make.

 
tangfoot said:
I think it's very likely that the upcoming scouting and combine process will create massive headwinds behind at least two QBs.  The Redskins are in a perfect position to take advantage of that hype and should be looking to move back a reasonable number of picks in exchange for a pretty massive haul in return.
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QB's draft values rise out of proportion to their skill level as the draft gets close, so you're probably right. And with some strategic "anonymously-sourced" stories planted in the press the Skins could inflate the value of those QB's even more. If ony they had someone who knew how to do that.................

 
fatness said:
Decent article about the OC search and interviews, including Scott Turner and Kevin O'Connell (who may or may not want to stay).

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/kevin-oconnells-future-uncertain-redskins-interview-norv-turners-son-report
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From the article: 

O'Connell "was calling plays for interim head coach Bill Callahan, and while O'Connell never outright said he felt his hands were tied by the type of offense Callahan wanted to see, it was clear that the old-school run-first approach of Callahan and O'Connell's vision for play action and pre-snap motion didn't always mesh."

I noticed that as the season progressed, the Redskins moved away from the run all the time mentality that Callahan had when he first became interim head coach.

 
Marvelous said:
I noticed that as the season progressed, the Redskins moved away from the run all the time mentality that Callahan had when he first became interim head coach.
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I saw the same. I believe O'Connell had all the playcalling responsibility for the last 3 games.

 
fatness said:
I think there's less than a 20% chance Smith will ever be cleared to play again. If he is, I think there's less than a 50% chance he'll outplay Haskins. Smith was struggling in the (new for him) offense when he got hurt. Haskins is picking that offense up, with a noticeable improvement in the last several games of the year. By the time Smith is cleared (if that happens) Haskins will have even more experience, and he makes throws Smith cannot make.
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Do you think it's a given that O'Connell will be retained and have control of the offense?  I think it's more likely that all the QBs on the roster are learning (at least some elements of) a new system next season.  I'm not going to try to argue that Smith and Haskins can make the same kind of throws, but wasn't Smith historically accurate his last few seasons?   And one was very aggressive in KC.

 
tangfoot said:
Do you think it's a given that O'Connell will be retained and have control of the offense?  I think it's more likely that all the QBs on the roster are learning (at least some elements of) a new system next season.  I'm not going to try to argue that Smith and Haskins can make the same kind of throws, but wasn't Smith historically accurate his last few seasons?   And one was very aggressive in KC.
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It’s not a given.  But he is in the mix.  Rivera is interviewing other people as we speak.  I would like it to be o’Connell though.

 
I think the Skins have to take Young.  He's clearly the BPA at #2 and I'd much rather take my chances with him than trusting the front office (whatever that looks like at the time) to make good on the couple extra picks they'd get by trading down.  If they had #3 I'd probably feel differently, and obviously if they get some sort of crazy Ricky Williams offer that changes things.

 
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Yep.  The better the defense the more pressure it takes off Haskins.  And you can win with a good def and average qb play.

 
Here is a link with a projection on compensation picks for the 2020 draft:

https://overthecap.com/compensatory-draft-picks-cancellation-chart/

The Redskins are likely to get a 4th round pick for Jamison Crowder.

They would have gotten a 3rd round pick for Preston Smith, but lost it when they signed Landon Collins.  So you can look at it as the Redskins traded a 3rd round draft pick for Landon Collins.

They also would have gotten a 6th round pick for Ty Nysekhe and a 7th rounder for Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, both lost those when they signed Erick Flowers and Dominique Rogers-Cromartie.

I originally thought trading for Clinton-Dix was a good move since they would get a comp pick if he left.  But in retrospect, the Redskins did not get one.

 
tangfoot said:
Do you think it's a given that O'Connell will be retained and have control of the offense?  I think it's more likely that all the QBs on the roster are learning (at least some elements of) a new system next season.  I'm not going to try to argue that Smith and Haskins can make the same kind of throws, but wasn't Smith historically accurate his last few seasons?   And one was very aggressive in KC.
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I don't think it's a given that O'Connell will be retained. I won't be surprised if he is, however, since he's had multiple meetings with Rivera already.

As for the QB's on the roster, Smith, Keenum, and Haskins were all learning a new system. McCoy was not. Smith has always been accurate but usually with short and mid-range throws. He did have one superior season in KC which featured deep balls (and some excellent receivers), but only one, and it is the aberration in his career. He does not fire the ball with the authority Haskins does.

 
I hope we know our OC on Monday or Tuesday, and then the full coaching staff can be filled out. I'd be surpised to see any defensive holdovers.

Getting Rivera this early has given the Skins a leg up on the Giants and Cowboys, who are floundering in their searches. The Skins will get to interview quality low-level coaches to fill the coaching staff before either of those teams will. That is a very good thing.

 
The Washington Redskins reached an agreement to hire Ryan Vermillion, formerly of the Carolina Panthers, as their head athletic trainer, and they intend to use the overhaul of their training staff as a key element of Coach Ron Rivera’s attempt to get star left tackle Trent Williams to return to the team, according to a person familiar with the situation.

“One of Ron’s top goals is to get Trent back,” the person said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because the Redskins had not announced the staff addition. “I know for certain that Ron is going to try to get him back.”
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Vermillion is said to have a very good reputation within the league, among players and with the NFL Players Association. “This is good for player health and safety,” the person said.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/01/04/redskins-hire-respected-trainer-part-ron-riveras-plan-bring-back-trent-williams/

Nice to see Rivera (and Snyder) wanting to put the good pieces back together. I'm listening to "Brokedown Palace" while I type this.

 
Apparently we are looking at Shurmur as OC?  That makes me very sad. 

https://twitter.com/granthpaulsen/status/1213633761369378816

One surprising name being discussed internally for the #Redskins' OC job is Pat Shurmur, I'm told. The recently fired Giants head coach is one of the names being considered in the event that Kevin O'Connell doesn't return.
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More on Shurmur: Chip Kelly ran #Eagles O in 13/14, Shurmur’s only yrs in top 10 of any O category as OC. He took over (2015)-the offense dropped 3rd to 13th in ppg & 1st to 21st running. Remove two good years w/Chip & Shurmur’s avgs: -O:21 -run:24 -pass:24 -TO:22
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I still wouldn't bet against O'Connell. Meanwhile

Adam Schefter‏Verified account @AdamSchefter

Redskins now are planning to wait until after the draft to hire a general manager, per league sources. The team’s thinking is that it still has people in place for now, though anyone in the front office is in jeopardy after the draft and there will be more changes.
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And in reaction

John Keim‏Verified account @john_keim

Two names that will still make sense at this time if go outside: Louis Riddick and Morocco Brown. Has been Smoke around both. Both respectful of chain of command/also smart.
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Adam Schefter‏Verified account @AdamSchefter

Redskins’ HC Ron Rivera is hiring his former LB coach in Carolina, Steve Russ, to do the same job in Washington, per source. So Rivera reaching back to Carolina connections as he establishes himself in Washington.
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John Keim‏Verified account @john_keim

The Redskins have indeed shown interest in Pat Shurmur as @granthpaulsen tweeted. However: no interview as of yet and not sure if there will be one. Not yet a two way street in regards to interest. Could depend on happens with KOC. Even then, not sold on PS interest.
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This is a good article about the front office. I won't include a lot of quotes, just the most important one.

For Redskins fans concerned by the delay in major changes, don't be. The NFL operates on almost two distinct calendars. For players and coaches, things revolve around the season. For the front office, the draft is always the conclusion of the year. This is normal. It's not worth disrupting a large group of people that are already well into their work cycle. It would be like firing a group of accountants in early March knowing the tax deadline comes April 15th. 

One thing is clear: Don't expect any changes with the Redskins power structure until after the draft. Rivera will fill out his coaching staff, and that could be completed by the end of the week. Beyond that, the folks inside the building get to keep working and try to impress the new boss.
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Hindsight information: Redskins considered hiring GM before hiring Ron Rivera, per report

Redskins owner Dan Snyder got close to hiring former Texans general manager Rick Smith to run football operations before the Washington owner instead decided to hire head coach Ron Rivera, according to a new ESPN report. 

The report explains that Smith and Snyder met many times on the owner's yacht while in the Bahamas as the 2019 season drew to a close. Snyder and Smith talked about rebuilding the Redskins and the best methods to do so, but eventually, Snyder instead decided to go with Rivera and a "coach-centric" approach.

In remarks made during Rivera's introductory press conference, Rivera explained that Snyder's vision in Washington would reflect coach-centric cultures like those in New England, Seattle and Kansas City. 
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Rivera will bring in John Matsko to coach the offensive line and Jim Hostler to coach wide receivers, The Athletic Carolina has reported. It was already clear that former interim head coach Bill Callahan would not be back with the Redskins to coach the offensive line, but the Hostler move means the end for Ike Hilliard as Redskins receivers coach. He had been with the Redskins since 2014. 

More reports show that Rivera could bring in Sam Mills III to coach the defensive line, the son of former Panthers linebacker legend Sam Mills. If Mills joins the staff would formally boot out the team's most beloved former assistant coach in Jim Tomsula. 
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https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/whos-report-shows-rivera-hiring-new-coaches-booting-some-redskins-favorites

 
fatness said:
Adam Schefter‏Verified account @AdamSchefter

Redskins now are planning to wait until after the draft to hire a general manager, per league sources. The team’s thinking is that it still has people in place for now, though anyone in the front office is in jeopardy after the draft and there will be more changes
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fatness said:
The NFL operates on almost two distinct calendars. For players and coaches, things revolve around the season. For the front office, the draft is always the conclusion of the year. This is normal. It's not worth disrupting a large group of people that are already well into their work cycle. It would be like firing a group of accountants in early March knowing the tax deadline comes April 15th. 
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Hmmn. 

Washington has a no-brain decision to take DE Chase Young at the top of the draft but for anyone 'thinking' they could trade-down.

I've noticed personal relationships between GMs play a pivotal role in many of the 'bigger' trades that have gone down.  

Saw the no-GM till after the draft and wasn't sure about that move.

  I guess the guy who has been doing the work 'might' get promoted to GM if things go well so it might work out.

 
Alex Marvez‏Verified account @alexmarvez

Source tells @SiriusXMNFL that @Chargers asst DBs coach Chris Harris will be leaving to become new @Redskins DBs coach. Chris played in the NFL for eight years (2005-2012) before branching into coaching.
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He interviewed here a couple years ago under Gruden I think.

 
Cowboys are going to hire Mike McCarthy as HC. I guess Jerry Jones used Dan's sleepover strategy and it worked.

Adam Schefter‏Verified account @AdamSchefter

New Cowboys’ HC Mike McCarthy stayed over Jerry Jones’ house on Saturday night, per source. “Once you stay at Jerrry’s house, he doesn’t lose his guy,” said source.
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Any chance Washington finally atones for its mistake from five years ago and hires Wade Phillips as DC? I know Rivera himself is a defensive guy, so he's not likely to simply hand over the keys the way McVay or Kubiak did at Phillips' previous stops. Still, he hired legit DCs when he was in Carolina; two of them (McDermott and Wilkes) went on to become HCs.

Not holding my breath. And maybe it wouldn't make sense stylistically/personality-wise. But would love to know if it's a possibility.

 
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