Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
I was going to offer Mike Williams for him, but that deal fell thru due to another trade. In the leagues I own him, that's the kind of value I'd be looking for.
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Joique Bell (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter swirvenirvin
- Start date
bostonfred
Footballguy
Bell 2012:
82 rush, 414 yards, 3 TDs, 5.0 YPC
52 receptions, 485 yards, 9.3 YPR
In 8.4 touches a game, he accumulated 899 yards and 3 TDs and over 3 receptions per game.
Bell 2013:
6 rushes, 25 yards, 2 TDs, 4.2 YPC
5 catches, 67 yards, 13.4 YPR
That's only one game, and the Lions won't feature both backs so heavily this season, but here are a few things in Bell's favor:
1) He looks like he will get more touches per game. 10 touches per game would be about a 20% boost in his stats - from 900 yards to 1080. 12 touches a game would bump him into 1400+ yard territory.
2) Bush is already injured. Twice. A dislocated thumb and a hip injury. It didn't slow him down, and he's not expected to miss time yet, but Bush has an injury history, including last year, when he played through pain for a month and a half and his stats suffered. If Bush missed time, Bell would be a legit RB1.
3) Even if Bush is healthy, Bell may be in line for more TDs. Last year, LeShoure had 9 of the Lions' 17 rushing TDs. Stafford had three. Bell had three. This year, Bell already has two in week one, and Bush, despite his 191 yard day, didn't get either rushing TD (he did get a receiving TD). The Lions have a high scoring offense and get a first and goal from the one every time someone interferes with Calvin in the end zone - there's room for Bell to get a big uptick in TDs if things go well
4) He is a receptions machine. In PPR, his 52 receptions last year made him a borderline RB2. With five catches in his first game, that seems like a floor, not a ceiling.
5) He's a 27 year old running back in his contract year. This is his one chance to get a big contract next season. The coaches were impressed by him all offseason, enough to not only move him into the #2 spot, but to leave LeShoure inactive week 1.
Bell looks very similar to a healthy Vereen to me - a guy who will racks up receptions, total yards, and the occasional TD, but who has legit upside if something happens to the starter. In PPR, he could be in for a monster season. In standard leagues, he's a borderline RB2 without an injury to the starter. And in keeper leagues, he's got the potential to take a starting role somewhere next year or get paid by the Lions and continue to be a valuable RB2 type.
I would offer a legit starting WR for him, and I wouldn't trade him unless somebody wowed me.
82 rush, 414 yards, 3 TDs, 5.0 YPC
52 receptions, 485 yards, 9.3 YPR
In 8.4 touches a game, he accumulated 899 yards and 3 TDs and over 3 receptions per game.
Bell 2013:
6 rushes, 25 yards, 2 TDs, 4.2 YPC
5 catches, 67 yards, 13.4 YPR
That's only one game, and the Lions won't feature both backs so heavily this season, but here are a few things in Bell's favor:
1) He looks like he will get more touches per game. 10 touches per game would be about a 20% boost in his stats - from 900 yards to 1080. 12 touches a game would bump him into 1400+ yard territory.
2) Bush is already injured. Twice. A dislocated thumb and a hip injury. It didn't slow him down, and he's not expected to miss time yet, but Bush has an injury history, including last year, when he played through pain for a month and a half and his stats suffered. If Bush missed time, Bell would be a legit RB1.
3) Even if Bush is healthy, Bell may be in line for more TDs. Last year, LeShoure had 9 of the Lions' 17 rushing TDs. Stafford had three. Bell had three. This year, Bell already has two in week one, and Bush, despite his 191 yard day, didn't get either rushing TD (he did get a receiving TD). The Lions have a high scoring offense and get a first and goal from the one every time someone interferes with Calvin in the end zone - there's room for Bell to get a big uptick in TDs if things go well
4) He is a receptions machine. In PPR, his 52 receptions last year made him a borderline RB2. With five catches in his first game, that seems like a floor, not a ceiling.
5) He's a 27 year old running back in his contract year. This is his one chance to get a big contract next season. The coaches were impressed by him all offseason, enough to not only move him into the #2 spot, but to leave LeShoure inactive week 1.
Bell looks very similar to a healthy Vereen to me - a guy who will racks up receptions, total yards, and the occasional TD, but who has legit upside if something happens to the starter. In PPR, he could be in for a monster season. In standard leagues, he's a borderline RB2 without an injury to the starter. And in keeper leagues, he's got the potential to take a starting role somewhere next year or get paid by the Lions and continue to be a valuable RB2 type.
I would offer a legit starting WR for him, and I wouldn't trade him unless somebody wowed me.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Well said, bostonfred. Bell's upside is as clear as day.
VaTerp
Footballguy
So catching passes on offense is now equivalent to not being able to cover someone on defense?----Outstanding logic to justify your personal feelings about FF scoring systems.
Sweetness_34
Footballguy
What about the adductors?
Seriously, this is why I did not want anything to do with Bush in all my PPR leagues. He is too fragile and has too much tread on his tires especially when teams insist on running him into the middle too.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Groin is comprised of adductor muscles
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
ftfy
But yes, I'm happy I was so bullish on all three during drafts as they are all blatant RB1s when given the opportunity and flex worthy regardless (although Tate/Pierce are more match-up dependent).
bagger
Footballguy
given that rice and gore were my first two RBs taken, pierce and bell may be my starting two RBs this week
WilsonTheVolleyball
Footballguy
Just trying to get an idea of Bell's value: I can get Knowshon off the waivers. Bell or Knowshon?
Um, both? Drop someone else.
Bell is going to be dynamite this week with a hobbled Bush. They play the Redskins, whom just gave up 160 yards to James Starks. I'm starting Joique over Ridley and a host of other RBs.
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SameSongNDance
Footballguy
To call WAS's run defense porous at this point would be a huge understatement. Both McCoy and Starks had career games versus them.
A lot of this has to do with the game states, as they went down big to both PHI and GB in the first half, but again, there's no denying WAS's defense is very exploitable. If Bush were to sit out this week, I'd have no problem labeling Bell a top 5 play.
He's performing like a RB1 regardless of the format anyway, which makes me feel like I'm not even stretching.
StopTradingMeTebow
Footballguy
Yeah, I picked up Bell in every league I could _last_ week and gambled.
Now the trade offers are coming in. Problem is I'm not sure if I'd be selling high or low - or if I even want to sell.
Until we know the true state of Bush, I don't want to pull the trigger. And especially not next week against the Skins.
Now the trade offers are coming in. Problem is I'm not sure if I'd be selling high or low - or if I even want to sell.
Until we know the true state of Bush, I don't want to pull the trigger. And especially not next week against the Skins.
This is a good thing if you're trying to acquire Bell. If there was bad news on Bush, his owners would feel like he's untouchable.
False Start
Footballguy
Isn't Bell still pretty much untouchable due to the fact the Bush is made of Glass? I would anticipate another injury for Bush at the rate this is going, and even if he doesn't get hurt again, Bell has a lot of value as he is a factor in the offense with Bush in the mix.
rockaction
Footballguy
As a Bush owner, Bell is indeed still rather untouchable, unless you're offering something really sweet.
Yeah you're right, but I think some less savvy owners of Bell who are also not Bush owners, might not quite realise his value.
Rick James
Footballguy
Barring some crazy offer Bell basically is untouchable. He's not even starting and he's an elite PPR flex at worst. If bush misses time he moves to RB1 IMO.
False Start
Footballguy
He is not a big name and has very little appeal to the novice fantasy owner, I am trying to acquire on all fronts, redraft and dyno. It is a long season and injuries will happen, maybe even to Bell, but his potential has a rare value currently which every Bush owner should be trying to acquire him at all costs. It will be a lot cheaper now then later.
False Start
Footballguy
Looks like a possibility that Bell could get the Lions share against an awful defense. Sorry about the pun.
Although coach Jim Schwartz confirmed Reggie Bush's left knee injury is not "long term," Schwartz added "I guess it could be medium term."
"If we're going to be without him, we're going to need to find other ways to move the ball and other ways to score because we didn't get that done in the second half," Schwartz said, referred to Detroit's Week 2 offensive stall with Bush sidelined all but two second-half snaps. "He's a good fit in our offense, and we're going to work to get him back as soon as we can." Bush has emerged from each of the Lions' first two games fairly severely beat up. Facing the reeling Redskins, it might not be a bad idea to give Bush a week off.
Although coach Jim Schwartz confirmed Reggie Bush's left knee injury is not "long term," Schwartz added "I guess it could be medium term."
"If we're going to be without him, we're going to need to find other ways to move the ball and other ways to score because we didn't get that done in the second half," Schwartz said, referred to Detroit's Week 2 offensive stall with Bush sidelined all but two second-half snaps. "He's a good fit in our offense, and we're going to work to get him back as soon as we can." Bush has emerged from each of the Lions' first two games fairly severely beat up. Facing the reeling Redskins, it might not be a bad idea to give Bush a week off.
Sweetness_34
Footballguy
dcgangstas
Footballguy
"Medium Term" sure sounds a lot like 2-3 weeks for Bush being out of the lineup. Being in DC and knowing just how bad the field in JKC is, I don't see Reggie playing in all honesty.
Joique Bell should put up big-time numbers against a sieve-like defense like the Redskins.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
There's no way to rationally place Bell outside of the top 5 if he gets the nod this week. Words cannot express just how bad WAS's run defense is this year.
T with T
Footballguy
is there anyone else besides spiller you can sit???? I would probably try to keep spiller in the line up.
LittlePhatty
Footballguy
If Bush sits, Bell is definitely in my lineup or traded. Unfortunately, the only league I have him in was a deep one where I drafted him, but I have Morris, Sproles and CJ, so it is the only one I don't really need him. That said, I had to play him a few times last season and it was clear how much better than LeShoure that he was and if Bush is out, I would start Bell over all 3. He could disappoint, but for those of us in PPR leagues, he would get a minimum of 5-50 receiving based on the fact that through two games Bush and Bell have 17, yes 17 receptions for 241 yards and 1 TD. That means that the Lions RBs are #3 in yards, #4 in receptions and a top 10 WR or TE in PPR leagues without even looking at their rushing totals.
ETA: Now I know this cannot be pro-rated this way and the pace probably will slow down, but the Lions RB in PPR leagues would be the #1 player combined with 25% more points than DJax. That is why if Bush is out, Bell is a must start. Right now Bush is the #5 RB in PPR and Bell is the #7 RB in PPR. If Bush is healthy, I don't think Bell will keep up that pace (he won't have 16 rushing TDs for the full year), but I think Bush would be top 10 and Bell top 20. If Bush goes down for an extended period, Bell would be top 10 easy.
ETA: Now I know this cannot be pro-rated this way and the pace probably will slow down, but the Lions RB in PPR leagues would be the #1 player combined with 25% more points than DJax. That is why if Bush is out, Bell is a must start. Right now Bush is the #5 RB in PPR and Bell is the #7 RB in PPR. If Bush is healthy, I don't think Bell will keep up that pace (he won't have 16 rushing TDs for the full year), but I think Bush would be top 10 and Bell top 20. If Bush goes down for an extended period, Bell would be top 10 easy.
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sandlotshrink
Footballguy
Ideally, you want one or the other to play the majority if you own both. Hopefully Reggie can rest for a couple weeks then come back full strength as opposed to what happened last week when he tried to play through injury.
Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
We'll see what comes out in today's injury report, but I'm sensing that Bush will be questionable but more towards GTD by Friday. If so that kind of stinks, as I would love to exert leverage on Reggie Bush owners this week. I'll probably send out trade offers today anyway, and worst-case, Bell is strong RB2 option this week.
Rick James
Footballguy
I was planning on starting Bell at flex this week anyway, even if Bush was 100%. If Bell gets all the snaps that's just a bonus, imo.
Reading between the lines it certainly sounds like bush is going to miss some games.
Shwartz confirmed the injury is not long term but guessing medium term.
If we are going to be without him ...
... we're going to work to get him back as soon as we can.
If he is out this week like I suspect he will be I will be starting Bell but with tempered expectations.
Shwartz confirmed the injury is not long term but guessing medium term.
If we are going to be without him ...
... we're going to work to get him back as soon as we can.
If he is out this week like I suspect he will be I will be starting Bell but with tempered expectations.
Khy
Footballguy
What are 'tempered expectations' at this point when you have a RB facing Washington? I feel like if James Starks can do 20 carries 132 yards 1 TD, 4 receptions 36 yards. That Bell can easily put up those numbers. Probably something more along the lines of 16 carries, 100 yards 1 TD, 6 receptions 60 yards though. I'm just not even sure what we call tempered anymore after watching LeSean McCoy and James Starks carve up this Washington front seven like it's seven plastic dummies on the field.qimqam said:
Rick James
Footballguy
Khy
Footballguy
I suppose it's a possibility? I don't know though, Bell saw 6 carries to Bush's 21 in Week 1 and 6 Receptions to Bush's 8. Then he had 8 carries to Bush's 9 and 5 receptions to Bush's 3 against Arizona. Obviously Bush went down in this game. I'd expect if Bush is out completely that Bell gets at least 12 carries and probably another 6-10 receptions out of the backfield. All in all I'd say he's a safe bet for 20 touches in total if Bush is out and probably a RB2 floor with RB1 upside. Even if Bush is in this week, I'm not sure you have a better flex option in the league than Bell this week.
I'm in all PPR leagues, so maybe I look at it a little different than some, but the rushing attempts are a bonus. I am looking at the 8.5-120-0.5TD line that the Lions RB position has put up just receiving the last two weeks. Bell would split time, but I would think in PPR, he has a 10 point floor just from receptions.
Also, the fact that Bell got the GL touches (and delivered) in week 1, sets his ceiling really high if Bush misses time. LeShoure was the GL back last year and I think the Lions realized by the end of last year that Bell was just better.
That is my only concern. If Bush is out, I would not be surprised at all if LeShoure is active and the GL back. That should still leave plenty for Bell to be a RB1 in ppr, but it's a little less certain in non-ppr.
Khy
Footballguy
Honestly, I don't see this as a concern at all. LeShoure has been a healthy scratch this season in favor of Bell. I'm not sure how he'd be a goal-line threat to Bell all of a sudden if Bush went down. If anything he'd be put out there simply to give Bell a breather. But steal opportunities from him? No way. I imagine we'd see what Charles saw in KC. Where even when he was on the bench he saw 100% of the actual carries in the game.
