need2know
Footballguy
Damn wow
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2023 Philadelphia Eagles - Complete waste of a season finally comes to an end. (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter The Noid
- Start date
Damn wow
Insein
Footballguy
Well he's not retiring before he game. I mean he's thinking about it for the off-season.
Do you have the link for that? Thanks.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Barring a deep run, like NFCCG I think Nick is gone. And I think your new head coach is BB. Maybe Vrabel.
I do not think this is the right move. I just think the HC market has so many Ferraris out there, this is the year to grab a new one.
need2know
Footballguy
I hate for nick cause I do like him. But he can't help this team. He needs to go. He's had 2 months to show something. He's shown zip.
Deamon
Footballguy
Damn, they took the 'joke went over your head' emoji out.Nah, just playing off all the recent drama with A.J. deleting his socials and Eagles affiliations and how all you guys that have been telling us things 100% won't happen, and then they do.
Really? I thought that was a minor thing with him on the socials but didn't know. Which is why I asked.
Didn't really get the "outsiders" thing on the title. I try to follow things pretty closely. For the end of the year, it was hardly a hot take to think the Eagles would win 3 of the last 4 and beat Arizona and the Giants twice.
Damn, they took the 'joke went over your head' emoji out.Nah, just playing off all the recent drama with A.J. deleting his socials and Eagles affiliations and how all you guys that have been telling us things 100% won't happen, and then they do.
Really? I thought that was a minor thing with him on the socials but didn't know. Which is why I asked.
Didn't really get the "outsiders" thing on the title. I try to follow things pretty closely. For the end of the year, it was hardly a hot take to think the Eagles would win 3 of the last 4 and beat Arizona and the Giants twice.
Not really. I was more interested in the "outsider" part. I try to follow the NFL pretty closely.
Deamon
Footballguy
Yet you would rather switch to commercials/pre-game on another channel than a live NFL OT game simply because you claimed you already knew what was going to happen?Damn, they took the 'joke went over your head' emoji out.Nah, just playing off all the recent drama with A.J. deleting his socials and Eagles affiliations and how all you guys that have been telling us things 100% won't happen, and then they do.
Really? I thought that was a minor thing with him on the socials but didn't know. Which is why I asked.
Didn't really get the "outsiders" thing on the title. I try to follow things pretty closely. For the end of the year, it was hardly a hot take to think the Eagles would win 3 of the last 4 and beat Arizona and the Giants twice.
Not really. I was more interested in the "outsider" part. I try to follow the NFL pretty closely.
I think it's pretty clear what you're doing at this point, and I'm really not sure how you didn't figure out that the thread title was about you.
But let's get back to football talk, big playoff games happening this weekend.
rockaction
Footballguy
That you don't know how bad a look this is for you and the other fans is stunning.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Amazing ain’t it?
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
If you're not on the team's payroll, you're an outsider imo. Not much of an insult, really.
The Noid
Avoid me!
Most Eagles fans that follow the team closely, and have for years/decades, recognized a team that was in the midst of a disastrous collapse 2 months ago.
Fans of other teams (not just Joe) that saw it from the outside as just a little slump against decent teams repeatedly kept coming around stating with absolute certainty that what we were saying was happening and would happen was not a possibility.
Some were doing it due to naïveté. If you haven’t lived through the daily grind of the Kotite era, Bobby Hoying as your franchise QB, Andy Reid’s early career time management, etc., you just won’t have the same “insider” perspective. Stating 100% absolutes that are positive in nature about this team is a hubris only an “outsider” could possess.
From the outside, there’s a talented roster of offensive players, a cupcake schedule to end the year, and a coach/QB combo with an absurd winning percentage. So it will be all good, right? But from the inside, it was 11 weeks of “not playing a complete game yet.” The offense and defense both had multiple, questionable performances but not usually on the same day (except for the NYJ game), which kept up the illusion. The run game, and particularly the OLine, was not able to dominate when needed to sustain a drive after long defensive possession, or to close out in the 4th with a lead. Weapons like Goedert and Swift would disappear for stretches of GAMES, not series. The situational play calling, on both sides, was maddening since week 1. And on and on and on.
Now, others were doing the “They are fine. This team is great. They will win.” deliberately to be able to take shots at a rival team/fan base in a subversive way. And I respect it; I’m never above pulling out a classic reverse jinx.
TL;DR - Should not happen >>> Will not happen.
Fans of other teams (not just Joe) that saw it from the outside as just a little slump against decent teams repeatedly kept coming around stating with absolute certainty that what we were saying was happening and would happen was not a possibility.
Some were doing it due to naïveté. If you haven’t lived through the daily grind of the Kotite era, Bobby Hoying as your franchise QB, Andy Reid’s early career time management, etc., you just won’t have the same “insider” perspective. Stating 100% absolutes that are positive in nature about this team is a hubris only an “outsider” could possess.
From the outside, there’s a talented roster of offensive players, a cupcake schedule to end the year, and a coach/QB combo with an absurd winning percentage. So it will be all good, right? But from the inside, it was 11 weeks of “not playing a complete game yet.” The offense and defense both had multiple, questionable performances but not usually on the same day (except for the NYJ game), which kept up the illusion. The run game, and particularly the OLine, was not able to dominate when needed to sustain a drive after long defensive possession, or to close out in the 4th with a lead. Weapons like Goedert and Swift would disappear for stretches of GAMES, not series. The situational play calling, on both sides, was maddening since week 1. And on and on and on.
Now, others were doing the “They are fine. This team is great. They will win.” deliberately to be able to take shots at a rival team/fan base in a subversive way. And I respect it; I’m never above pulling out a classic reverse jinx.
TL;DR - Should not happen >>> Will not happen.
The Noid
Avoid me!
I love BBQ. Enjoy all kinds. Know enough to fire up the smoker and do a little Carolina style pulled pork or St. Louis ribs.
So let’s say I’m attending a BBQ competition and one of the contestants tells me they taste something off in the salt to sugar ratio of their sauce, right before judging.
I take a hunk of meat, give it a try, and it tastes like good BBQ to me and my palate. So I state, matter of factly, “Look at the bark on this. It’s great. And that smoke ring is up there with any other entry in the competition. You will win this competition.”
But the contestant insists there should be some concern, because the sauce is off and they might not only lose, but maybe not even get a ribbon.
I insist, “That won’t happen. You finished 2nd overall last year.”
The contestant finishes 5th.
Maybe I could have been a bit more deferential to the contestant’s concerns or allowed for the possibility winning wasn’t a sure thing.
So let’s say I’m attending a BBQ competition and one of the contestants tells me they taste something off in the salt to sugar ratio of their sauce, right before judging.
I take a hunk of meat, give it a try, and it tastes like good BBQ to me and my palate. So I state, matter of factly, “Look at the bark on this. It’s great. And that smoke ring is up there with any other entry in the competition. You will win this competition.”
But the contestant insists there should be some concern, because the sauce is off and they might not only lose, but maybe not even get a ribbon.
I insist, “That won’t happen. You finished 2nd overall last year.”
The contestant finishes 5th.
Maybe I could have been a bit more deferential to the contestant’s concerns or allowed for the possibility winning wasn’t a sure thing.
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JAA
Footballguy
Podcasts arent reporting. They are rewarded for speed to market and "hot takes". I hate them
JAA
Footballguy
Lurie has never hired a re-tread coach. He has always looked for "the next big thing"
JAA
Footballguy
THey are not moving on from Nick. This is ridiculous. Super Bowl appearance, lose BOTH coordinators, then still make the playoffs with such poor talent/depth on defense. No way. If anything Nick should be coach of the year.
Sometimes people act like all smart choices work out. Its very possible both coordinators Nick chose fissile out. It happens. It doesnt mean fire the coach on first mistake. I would wager Nick gets at least 2 more years even if he misses the playoffs next season.
JAA
Footballguy
Prolly both coordinators
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
Yep. Though Doug was kind of a "the hot candidates all picked other destinations" move, plus a desire to have some of the Reid system back after the Kelly years, and to have someone who wasn't going to insist on calling all the shots like Kelly did (and Reid did in his final years with us).
JAA
Footballguy
No Blankenship is a big deal. He is the QB of the defense.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
JAA
Footballguy
why do coaches need to be fired because we lose in the first round of the playoffs? Why do order of wins matter?
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
JAA
Footballguy
This is such defeatest crazy talk
SB appearnace
Lose both coordinators to HC positions
Make playoffs
Fired
Sometimes it feels like no one understands how hard leadership is. Nicks job this season was hard. I havnt even mentioned injuries yet as every team faces them, but its hard regardless
JAA
Footballguy
Couple of pointsMost Eagles fans that follow the team closely, and have for years/decades, recognized a team that was in the midst of a disastrous collapse 2 months ago.
Fans of other teams (not just Joe) that saw it from the outside as just a little slump against decent teams repeatedly kept coming around stating with absolute certainty that what we were saying was happening and would happen was not a possibility.
Some were doing it due to naïveté. If you haven’t lived through the daily grind of the Kotite era, Bobby Hoying as your franchise QB, Andy Reid’s early career time management, etc., you just won’t have the same “insider” perspective. Stating 100% absolutes that are positive in nature about this team is a hubris only an “outsider” could possess.
From the outside, there’s a talented roster of offensive players, a cupcake schedule to end the year, and a coach/QB combo with an absurd winning percentage. So it will be all good, right? But from the inside, it was 11 weeks of “not playing a complete game yet.” The offense and defense both had multiple, questionable performances but not usually on the same day (except for the NYJ game), which kept up the illusion. The run game, and particularly the OLine, was not able to dominate when needed to sustain a drive after long defensive possession, or to close out in the 4th with a lead. Weapons like Goedert and Swift would disappear for stretches of GAMES, not series. The situational play calling, on both sides, was maddening since week 1. And on and on and on.
Now, others were doing the “They are fine. This team is great. They will win.” deliberately to be able to take shots at a rival team/fan base in a subversive way. And I respect it; I’m never above pulling out a classic reverse jinx.
TL;DR - Should not happen >>> Will not happen.
Eagles fans who lived through Kotite should be grateful for Lurie, Roseman, and now Nick.
Our schedule this year was record hard IIRC.
Since when is winning games ugly a bad thing?
No one is saying the team is fine, not even rainbow homer pants me. However, there is a difference between a late season collapse and firing an entire staff because of when in the season we lost games and /only/ making the playoffs.
PLEASE PHILLY FANS, I LIVE IN NEW ENGLAND AND IM BEGGING YOU ALL NOT TO TURN INTO UNGRATEFUL PATRIOTS FANS
glll peas!!1!!11!
JAA
Footballguy
Wasnt Doug like coaching HS football a couple years before being Eagles HC?
BTW - he is doing pretty well in Jax, just what they needed.
JAA
Footballguy
Its been my observation that if anything, Lurie is a patient and 'late to act' manager
JAA
Footballguy
And what ive heard from the players is that they love Nick, especially AJB
JAA
Footballguy
I believe we beat TB. There is nothing about Baker which scares me. I dont like no Blakenship on defense. I believe Sydney is also out. WhoTF is going to play on defense? Is Troy Vincent going to swap out the Armani for pads?
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
JAA
Footballguy
I think the Kelly thing was a lot worse than most knew. What I remember being a big thing was Kelly being a control freak. Something about some traditional yearly party and it happen to fall on a practice day and Kelly refused to let the team to go to the party.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
It’s more like:
Get hired as an offensive guru and immediately have to give up offensive play calling duties-strike 1
SB appearnace
Lose both coordinators to HC positions
Win 10 games in 11 weeks and then turn into statistically one of the worst teams in the league for the last 6 weeks, showing no ability to right the ship and indicating that you’ve lost the team. Strike 2
Make playoffs
Lose to a crap team as the favorite in embarrassing fashion. If that happens it’s Strike 3
Fired
Context matters here. The way the Eagles limped into the playoffs while losing 5/6 IS DIFFERENT than spreading those losses out over the year and winning the last few games with some momentum heading into the playoffs.
This team has a short SB window -I fear that last year was the year and we didn’t make it happen. Either way, this is a win now league and if Lurie thinks that the players are out on Sirriani then he’ll move on. Especially with the available crop of coaches out there.
One man’s opinion.
JAA
Footballguy
Lemme see if I understand this
- Coach acknowledges the team would be better off if someone else takes over play calling. Coach pushing his ego aside ends up being right choice and team goes to Super Bowl.
Thats a bad thing?
Leadership isnt always about winning, leadership is often about playing +EV. You make the best decisions you can when you can.
JAA
Footballguy
I dont agree its a "win now league", at least with my definition.
How do you define "win now league"?
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
Yep. And the party was organized and sponsored by Lurie himself. Lurie saw that as an affront to him and it was one of two pivotal moments that led to Kelly's firing. The other was when Jason Peters sat next to Lurie on a team flight home late in the season and told him all about how Kelly had lost the team.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
No it wasn’t a bad thing and I respect it. And again, to be clear I do not want Nick fired. But from Luries perspective he hired Nick to be an offensive HC and call his offense. By the third or fourth week the guy you hired to call plays basically admits he can’t do it and gives up that role. I’m sure in luries mind he’s like WTF Nick that was why I brought you in here.
Again I might be wrong, I one knows and I’m speculating. But winning cures all ills and frankly they haven’t been winning for a long time.
Again I might be wrong, I one knows and I’m speculating. But winning cures all ills and frankly they haven’t been winning for a long time.
Insein
Footballguy
I don't think Lurie fires Nick either way. Even a blow out it would take severe internal turmoil for him to pull the trigger. Lurie is all about appearances. It makes him look bad if he fires a coach that went to the playoffs in his only 3 years coaching and once to the super bowl. No other coach is going to want to come here if the expectations are that ridiculous.
He'll give him a chance to fix this, probably recommend new coordinators but ultimately Nick has 2 more years on his deal. If anything, Lurie isn't going to waste money for a bad 7 weeks.
He'll give him a chance to fix this, probably recommend new coordinators but ultimately Nick has 2 more years on his deal. If anything, Lurie isn't going to waste money for a bad 7 weeks.
ProstheticRGK
Footballguy
If I were Lurie, No way I fire Nick. He has a good, winning track record and IMHO deserves another year, at least.
But the team DOES look like it quit. Or they don't know what their identity is. I don't think they can flip the switch and turn it on, and I predict they lose this game to Tampa. Todd Bowles calls up blitz after blitz and the Offense will have no answer. I'd put the likelihood of Lurie firing Nick low: <5%, but still, a very real possibility. Especially if they get blown out by a frankly not very good Tampa team.
But the team DOES look like it quit. Or they don't know what their identity is. I don't think they can flip the switch and turn it on, and I predict they lose this game to Tampa. Todd Bowles calls up blitz after blitz and the Offense will have no answer. I'd put the likelihood of Lurie firing Nick low: <5%, but still, a very real possibility. Especially if they get blown out by a frankly not very good Tampa team.
Deamon
Footballguy
EXACTLY THIS!!!Most Eagles fans that follow the team closely, and have for years/decades, recognized a team that was in the midst of a disastrous collapse 2 months ago.
Fans of other teams (not just Joe) that saw it from the outside as just a little slump against decent teams repeatedly kept coming around stating with absolute certainty that what we were saying was happening and would happen was not a possibility.
Some were doing it due to naïveté. If you haven’t lived through the daily grind of the Kotite era, Bobby Hoying as your franchise QB, Andy Reid’s early career time management, etc., you just won’t have the same “insider” perspective. Stating 100% absolutes that are positive in nature about this team is a hubris only an “outsider” could possess.
From the outside, there’s a talented roster of offensive players, a cupcake schedule to end the year, and a coach/QB combo with an absurd winning percentage. So it will be all good, right? But from the inside, it was 11 weeks of “not playing a complete game yet.” The offense and defense both had multiple, questionable performances but not usually on the same day (except for the NYJ game), which kept up the illusion. The run game, and particularly the OLine, was not able to dominate when needed to sustain a drive after long defensive possession, or to close out in the 4th with a lead. Weapons like Goedert and Swift would disappear for stretches of GAMES, not series. The situational play calling, on both sides, was maddening since week 1. And on and on and on.
Now, others were doing the “They are fine. This team is great. They will win.” deliberately to be able to take shots at a rival team/fan base in a subversive way. And I respect it; I’m never above pulling out a classic reverse jinx.
TL;DR - Should not happen >>> Will not happen.
It is so obvious when certain posters are talking about how great they are and how they will win so big. Also the same posters that just "casually" (not really casually), slip in how bad their opponent is (some even going as far as almost obsessively posting just how bad our competition is, opposing QB is, etc). They're not fooling anyone.
All these "won't happen", "no way" posts where if they are right, they can say "anyone could have seen this happening, it wasn't hard to call"... and if they're wrong, it's "wow what an epic collapse". I expected better from some of the people doing this. But if you're trying to take a stance of a neutral observer, at least don't talk in such absolutes, as it comes across.... I don't know a nice word for it so I won't say it.
Deamon
Footballguy
Exactly this. Which makes me feel like it's kind of a win win situation (or a lose lose I guess).
We don't know if he's lost the locker room or not. No idea. But we all agree that IF he has, he should go. And I'm positive Lurie knows if he has or not. Players would have talked to him about it. So IF he fires him, then I'm on board with it because it means he's lost the locker room. And if he doesn't fire him, I'm also on board because it means he hasn't lost the locker room.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Some other organization will give BB total control. If he comes here, he's not displacing Howie as GM.
Of course rosters matter a lot.
But I find it fascinating there is fan talk about Sirianni's future while other fans are shocked Vrabel was fired who went just 13-21 the past two seasons, losing 18 of his last 24 games.
But I find it fascinating there is fan talk about Sirianni's future while other fans are shocked Vrabel was fired who went just 13-21 the past two seasons, losing 18 of his last 24 games.
EXACTLY THIS!!!Most Eagles fans that follow the team closely, and have for years/decades, recognized a team that was in the midst of a disastrous collapse 2 months ago.
Fans of other teams (not just Joe) that saw it from the outside as just a little slump against decent teams repeatedly kept coming around stating with absolute certainty that what we were saying was happening and would happen was not a possibility.
Some were doing it due to naïveté. If you haven’t lived through the daily grind of the Kotite era, Bobby Hoying as your franchise QB, Andy Reid’s early career time management, etc., you just won’t have the same “insider” perspective. Stating 100% absolutes that are positive in nature about this team is a hubris only an “outsider” could possess.
From the outside, there’s a talented roster of offensive players, a cupcake schedule to end the year, and a coach/QB combo with an absurd winning percentage. So it will be all good, right? But from the inside, it was 11 weeks of “not playing a complete game yet.” The offense and defense both had multiple, questionable performances but not usually on the same day (except for the NYJ game), which kept up the illusion. The run game, and particularly the OLine, was not able to dominate when needed to sustain a drive after long defensive possession, or to close out in the 4th with a lead. Weapons like Goedert and Swift would disappear for stretches of GAMES, not series. The situational play calling, on both sides, was maddening since week 1. And on and on and on.
Now, others were doing the “They are fine. This team is great. They will win.” deliberately to be able to take shots at a rival team/fan base in a subversive way. And I respect it; I’m never above pulling out a classic reverse jinx.
TL;DR - Should not happen >>> Will not happen.
It is so obvious when certain posters are talking about how great they are and how they will win so big. Also the same posters that just "casually" (not really casually), slip in how bad their opponent is (some even going as far as almost obsessively posting just how bad our competition is, opposing QB is, etc). They're not fooling anyone.
All these "won't happen", "no way" posts where if they are right, they can say "anyone could have seen this happening, it wasn't hard to call"... and if they're wrong, it's "wow what an epic collapse". I expected better from some of the people doing this. But if you're trying to take a stance of a neutral observer, at least don't talk in such absolutes, as it comes across.... I don't know a nice word for it so I won't say it.
I didn't think this needed to be said but I guess I need to say it.
Nobody knows anything with 100% certainty in the NFL. There is no "sure thing".
I thought that was understood.
When I said no way does Philadelphia have an epic meltdown and lose to Giants twice and Arizona, of course there's a chance I could be wrong.
Also, predicting they would not lose to the Giants twice and Arizona was hardly a hot take.
And to try and insinuate I'm "not fooling anyone" as if I were trying to fool anyone is disappointing. We're not going to accuse others here of lying when you have zero idea what you're talking about. Please don't do that.
And that has zero to do with a "neutral observer". It may come as a surprise I guess, but neutral observers can have opinions they feel strongly will happen.
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Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
I think a better comparison would be two spectators judging someone else's barbecue, with one person having watched people cook longer than the other.
JAA
Footballguy
Name multiple coaches available who took their team to the Super Bowl last year and the playoffs this year.
Deamon
Footballguy
I think if you feel this way, then using terms like "no way", "won't happen", and "0.0%" don't really match that point of view. As someone who people (myself included) trust and listen to for advice on this sport, it's disappointing to hear you talk in such absolute terms like this.
"0.0% Chance" just seems like an odd take for someone who also says "Nobody knows anything with 100% certainty in the NFL"... do you agree?
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