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60 Percent Of Americans Will Have An Election Denier On The Ballot This Fall (1 Viewer)

I would almost be willing to see Trump run, win the election and see how many election deniers there would be on the left. It would be like 100%, I bet.

They couldn't believe it in 2016, after all.
 
To be honest, I'm not sure how much of the evidence being presented in the hearings would even be allowed in a court of law. Chain of possession, authentication, hearsay, etc. Trump's attorneys would tear a lot of this stuff to shreds. I'm sure the Democrats don't want this to go into a courtroom either because right now, the evidence is being presented in a light most favorable to their position. You think a Republican representative like Liz Cheney is going to ask tough questions, hell no, she's nothing more than a rubber stamp. That all changes when a defense team gets to sift through evidence, question witnesses, and present their own evidence.
How much of the hearings have you actually watched for yourself?

Didn't watch one second of the televised hearings.
OK, glad you know what's going on then. FYI, the testimony being given is probably more trustworthy than the 2nd and 3rd hand accounts you're being fed.

What are you basing that statement on?

Congressional Committees don't follow the Federal Rules of Evidence. The evidence being presented has not gone under any type of scrutiny. Therefore, it is unreliable at best, regardless of how compelling you may think it is.
You may want to ask yourself why this is the case. Trump and his team have largely been quiet other than to cast out blanket "witch hunt" allegations. The only thing I can think of that Trump directly refuted was the whole SS thing..... and it was such trivial moment that was more about his temperament than the allegations being laid out.
 
Ignoring/making light of these serious threats to democracy isn't a good look.
"Hey guys, they failed to oust the legitimate President so no big deal. Now if you try to make people accountable, that's a Banana Republic!"

A Congressional Committee isn't trying to hold people accountable since they don't follow the rule of evidence. If you want to hold people accountable you'd do that in a court of law.
That would be the next step if Garland feels there's enough evidence to indict. Certainly as a lawyer you would side with Garland's decision whatever that may be, right?

To be honest, I'm not sure how much of the evidence being presented in the hearings would even be allowed in a court of law. Chain of possession, authentication, hearsay, etc. Trump's attorneys would tear a lot of this stuff to shreds. I'm sure the Democrats don't want this to go into a courtroom either because right now, the evidence is being presented in a light most favorable to their position. You think a Republican representative like Liz Cheney is going to ask tough questions, hell no, she's nothing more than a rubber stamp. That all changes when a defense team gets to sift through evidence, question witnesses, and present their own evidence.
His attorneys would what? His attorneys thus far have not been faring so well when it comes to the stuff at MAL. I think Democrats are fine with any of this going to court...part of which is because trump's attorneys seem to be in over their head everywhere you look.
Voter fraud (that they don't actually allege)/election nonsense...do you think they looked good?
MAL documents? Care to take a guess how that has gone for his legal team thus far with their own special master?
 
Ignoring/making light of these serious threats to democracy isn't a good look.
"Hey guys, they failed to oust the legitimate President so no big deal. Now if you try to make people accountable, that's a Banana Republic!"

A Congressional Committee isn't trying to hold people accountable since they don't follow the rule of evidence. If you want to hold people accountable you'd do that in a court of law.
This is just flat out wrong. Special Committees have been convened in the House and Senate since the beginning of the Republic as one of the legislature's fundamental duties relates to oversight. Over any number of key important issues/events.
 
I would almost be willing to see Trump run, win the election and see how many election deniers there would be on the left. It would be like 100%, I bet.

They couldn't believe it in 2016, after all.
Couldn't believe it and denying the results based on zero evidence are two different things. I still can't believe it, to be honest. But I am not going to attack the integrity of any election without evidence. That is the fundamental difference.
 
But I swear to God...the more I hear or see the term "free and fair election" stuff from liberals I get more and more annoyed. I wish I knew why..I suppose it just seems to be some sort of mantra created by the democratic party, and their MSM puppets, and so many just parrot it over and over and over...This is one of the things that just irks me about liberals.

For another example...In Michigan, there is a ballot initiative called proposal 3 which would make abortions basically legal here. I am in support of that. But I swear if I see ONE MORE commercial talking about protecting this right in case of "rape or incest" which is SO small, I may just flip my vote. I hate the liberal parroting so much.
Ok rant over.
Just FYI, this is exactly how liberals feel about conservatives constantly yammering about CRT, grooming, etc.
 
But I swear to God...the more I hear or see the term "free and fair election" stuff from liberals I get more and more annoyed. I wish I knew why..I suppose it just seems to be some sort of mantra created by the democratic party, and their MSM puppets, and so many just parrot it over and over and over...This is one of the things that just irks me about liberals.

For another example...In Michigan, there is a ballot initiative called proposal 3 which would make abortions basically legal here. I am in support of that. But I swear if I see ONE MORE commercial talking about protecting this right in case of "rape or incest" which is SO small, I may just flip my vote. I hate the liberal parroting so much.
Ok rant over.
Just FYI, this is exactly how liberals feel about conservatives constantly yammering about CRT, grooming, etc.
Not just liberals
 
But I swear to God...the more I hear or see the term "free and fair election" stuff from liberals I get more and more annoyed. I wish I knew why..I suppose it just seems to be some sort of mantra created by the democratic party, and their MSM puppets, and so many just parrot it over and over and over...This is one of the things that just irks me about liberals.

For another example...In Michigan, there is a ballot initiative called proposal 3 which would make abortions basically legal here. I am in support of that. But I swear if I see ONE MORE commercial talking about protecting this right in case of "rape or incest" which is SO small, I may just flip my vote. I hate the liberal parroting so much.
Ok rant over.
Just FYI, this is exactly how liberals feel about conservatives constantly yammering about CRT, grooming, etc.
Fair. At least we can agree it's dumb from both sides.
 
More Loons Potentially Winning Influential Positions

“Republicans Jim Marchant of Nevada and Mark Finchem of Arizona promote wild conspiracy theories about how the 2020 election was stolen from Donald Trump. A victory in November could allow them, as secretaries of state, to restrict voting access or seek to block certification of results in these two critical battlegrounds for presidential elections.”
 
I would almost be willing to see Trump run, win the election and see how many election deniers there would be on the left. It would be like 100%, I bet.

They couldn't believe it in 2016, after all.
Couldn't believe it and denying the results based on zero evidence are two different things. I still can't believe it, to be honest. But I am not going to attack the integrity of any election without evidence. That is the fundamental difference.
It went far, far, beyond 'o my gosh, I just can't believe it!'. Matt Taibbi just wrote about how this has been memory holed. It's astonishing. If you're angry and depressed about what happened on 1/6 you have to also realize the years-long sniping at the 2016 results are partially to blame. The 1/6 crashing of the Capitol didn't just happen, there was a long runway leading up to it. So many from all across the political spectrum are guilty.

Useful companion video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoMfIkz7v6s
 
538 Article on this terrible trend. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/republicans-trump-election-fraud/

There are a lot of election deniers on the ballot. Out of 552 total Republican nominees running for office, we found 201 who FULLY DENIED the legitimacy of the 2020 election. These candidates either clearly stated that the election was stolen from Trump or took legal action to overturn the results, such as voting not to certify election results or joining lawsuits that sought to overturn the election.

But not all Republicans running embrace Trump’s claims. A total of 77 have FULLY ACCEPTED the results of the 2020 election while another 90 have ACCEPTED WITH RESERVATIONS, meaning they think President Biden won, but still raised concerns about the integrity of the election.

Because of Joint Finance Agreements and Leadership PACs, every elected official in the Democratic Party who received a political donation through Act Blue had their pooled money redistributed to all campaigns. JFAs started under Obama and were leveraged by Hillary Clinton in the 2016 run. That means the DNC has massive power in how much money can be pumped into a specific campaign. Which is no wonder that Jaime Harrison had record breaking campaign dollars flowing as head of the DNC to fight Lindsey Graham but still lost. ( Off book, it's Hakeem Jefferies as a proxy for Nancy Pelosi that decides who gets to meet their Team Blue campaign's burn rate or not)

In effect, every elected official in the Democratic Party in 2018 donated to Stacey Abrams in her bid for Governor of Georgia in 2018. Let's look at that.

***********

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/28/magazine/stacey-abrams-election-georgia.html

I saw that recently you said something like you’d won your election but you just didn’t get to have the job. Yes.


Is there any fear on your part that using that kind of language fans the same flames that President Trump has fanned about "de-legitimizing" our elections? I see those as very different. Trump is alleging voter fraud, which suggests that people were trying to vote more than once. Trump offers no empirical evidence to meet his claims. I make my claims based on empirical evidence, on a demonstrated pattern of behavior that began with the fact that the person I was dealing with was running the election. If you look at my immediate reaction after the election, I refused to concede.6 It was largely because I could not prove what had happened, but I knew from the calls that we got that something happened. Now, I cannot say that everybody who tried to cast a ballot would’ve voted for me, but if you look at the totality of the information, it is sufficient to demonstrate that so many people were disenfranchised and disengaged by the very act of the person who won the election that I feel comfortable now saying, “I won.”


***********

So that's EVERYONE. Everyone on the DNC's financial roll call in 2018 technically funded an election denier in Stacey Abrams. EVERYONE. You what is even more hilarious? Beyond that, Elizabeth Warren made a personal donation to Abrams. The same Elizabeth Warren who joined Amy Klobuchar, in public, and in writing, denouncing Dominion Voting Systems as a high risk threat to elections and democracy.

Do you see myself, as a matter of substance, calling everyone in the Democratic Party as funding an election denier on a regular basis?

The problem with purity tests is they work both ways. Your purity test is cheap and without actual context. When you open that door, the same purity tests can be used against you.

Your tribalism lacks actual competence. But that's par for course.
 
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I would almost be willing to see Trump run, win the election and see how many election deniers there would be on the left. It would be like 100%, I bet.

They couldn't believe it in 2016, after all.
Couldn't believe it and denying the results based on zero evidence are two different things. I still can't believe it, to be honest. But I am not going to attack the integrity of any election without evidence. That is the fundamental difference.
It went far, far, beyond 'o my gosh, I just can't believe it!'. Matt Taibbi just wrote about how this has been memory holed. It's astonishing. If you're angry and depressed about what happened on 1/6 you have to also realize the years-long sniping at the 2016 results are partially to blame. The 1/6 crashing of the Capitol didn't just happen, there was a long runway leading up to it. So many from all across the political spectrum are guilty.

Useful companion video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoMfIkz7v6s
Exactly. How easily they forget. But then again, hypocrites gonna' hyprocrite.
 
I would almost be willing to see Trump run, win the election and see how many election deniers there would be on the left. It would be like 100%, I bet.

They couldn't believe it in 2016, after all.
Couldn't believe it and denying the results based on zero evidence are two different things. I still can't believe it, to be honest. But I am not going to attack the integrity of any election without evidence. That is the fundamental difference.
But...but...but....but what again?

Useful companion video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoMfIkz7v6s

HTH (but I know you won't watch it). :thumbup:
 
They're going to try to toss results on the flimsiest of pretexts this November and in 2024.

They are grossly overestimating the opposition's complacence when it happens. But I rest assured that the actions will be defended on this board.
Warming up the crowd...

 
I would almost be willing to see Trump run, win the election and see how many election deniers there would be on the left. It would be like 100%, I bet.

They couldn't believe it in 2016, after all.

The left attempts to demonize and even criminalize whenever the right get together for protests. It really scares the hell out of them. It does not matter of it is Trump support, election fraud, gun rights, covid policies, abortion, sexualization of children. It absolutely scares them to death. They make laws and twist laws and hyper-prosecute them exhausting every law enforcement resource they can muster. The different responses by politicians, media, prosecutors to extremely violent leftwing protests versus relative peaceful protests by the right shows a gross politically bias in enforcing laws and controlling the narrative. The only firebombings today are occurring at pro-life clinics and are being completely ignored, but yet we are hyper-prosecuting non-violent pro-life protestors.
 
This could be fun and awful at the same time come November:

"During early voting in Arizona's Pima County, an election observer was told to put away binoculars; another was caught looking at private voter data, and another was asked to stop making comments about “fraudulent elections,” according to a September report by the county recorder's office reviewed by Reuters. State law forbids voter intimidation and obstructing election workers."


They will start feeding on themselves.
 
What do you do when it’s election denier vs a party you despise?
Choose the party that allows actual elections to count, so you can have your vote count next time?
Everyone’s vote counts. There are more elections that affect your everyday life than the president.
The point is that everyone's vote won't count in the future if people like Doug Mastriano, Kari Lake, Mark Finchem, et.al. are elected this go round.
 
I view it as at least 60 percent of the country has at least one candidate who supports free speech.
60 percent of the country believes in the intellectual equivalence of the moon landing was a hoax

jon - I view it as just people expressing their first amendment rights
 
American democracy has a lot of flaws. The voting process generally isn't one of them.

Democracy means that sometimes your side loses elections. But if you don't like American democracy now, you're gonna like American non-democracy even less.

We can go two ways right now: we can make democracy better or we can jettison it. I know which way I want to go.
 
What do you do when it’s election denier vs a party you despise?
Choose the party that allows actual elections to count, so you can have your vote count next time?
Everyone’s vote counts. There are more elections that affect your everyday life than the president.
The point is that everyone's vote won't count in the future if people like Doug Mastriano, Kari Lake, Mark Finchem, et.al. are elected this go round.
Just maybe if people voted for better candidates in the primaries, a lot of this can be avoided. People can’t be bothered, so here we are.
 
Just maybe if people voted for better candidates in the primaries, a lot of this can be avoided. People can’t be bothered, so here we are.
This seems like a deflection. Fact is, the GOP is running candidates this year that have outright stated they will overturn election results they don't like. Those candidates simply cannot be allowed to win, regardless of party or other policy beliefs.
 
Just maybe if people voted for better candidates in the primaries, a lot of this can be avoided. People can’t be bothered, so here we are.
This seems like a deflection. Fact is, the GOP is running candidates this year that have outright stated they will overturn election results they don't like. Those candidates simply cannot be allowed to win, regardless of party or other policy beliefs.
Can you link to a few of those?
 
Just maybe if people voted for better candidates in the primaries, a lot of this can be avoided. People can’t be bothered, so here we are.
This seems like a deflection. Fact is, the GOP is running candidates this year that have outright stated they will overturn election results they don't like. Those candidates simply cannot be allowed to win, regardless of party or other policy beliefs.
Those people are nuts also and don’t deserve the time of day. That doesn’t earn D’s my vote when I hate their entire platform.
 
Just maybe if people voted for better candidates in the primaries, a lot of this can be avoided. People can’t be bothered, so here we are.
This seems like a deflection. Fact is, the GOP is running candidates this year that have outright stated they will overturn election results they don't like. Those candidates simply cannot be allowed to win, regardless of party or other policy beliefs.
Can you link to a few of those?
I’m Doug Mastriano, and I get to appoint the secretary of state, who’s delegated from me the power to make the corrections to elections, the voting logs, and everything. I could decertify every machine in the state with the, you know, with the stroke of a pen via my secretary of state. I already have the secretary of state picked out. It’s a world-class person that knows voting integrity better than anyone else in the nation, I think, and I already have a team that’s gonna be built around that individual.
 
What do you do when it’s election denier vs a party you despise?
Treat the GOP like the cancer it is, put your country first, and eradicate it before it metastasizes.
Do you think the D’s put the country first?
The nicest thing I can say about the Dems at this point is, "at least they are attempting to self serve themselves within the confines of our democratic principles"....seriously, that's where the bar has been set at this point...it's pathetic.
 
Wait, are we using "election denier" like we use "anti vaxxer" in that we don't really mean that but it's an easy way to insult/vilify political opponents? Or are we using "election denier" like it's really bad for the other side to question an outcome but totally OK when our side does it?
 
Wait, are we using "election denier" like we use "anti vaxxer" in that we don't really mean that but it's an easy way to insult/vilify political opponents? Or are we using "election denier" like it's really bad for the other side to question an outcome but totally OK when our side does it?

We should clarify if what they mean by "election denier" is "only elections where Biden won and your side questioned it". Because if we go back 6 short years ago or 22 long years ago then I guess we'll all have election deniers on our ballots. :lol:
 
What do you do when it’s election denier vs a party you despise?
Treat the GOP like the cancer it is, put your country first, and eradicate it before it metastasizes.


Direct Headline: A Combat Veteran Runs for Congress, and the Scrutiny Intensifies

By Emmarie Huetteman May 18, 2016

....Still, more candidates use their military background as a foundation of a campaign. In the House of Representatives, about 18 percent of lawmakers are veterans, and about 20 percent of the Senate have served in the military. Strategists advise veterans hoping to make the jump from serving in one of the nation’s most trusted institutions to serving in one of the least — Congress — to steel themselves for the scrutiny....

Mr. Mast does not mind the questions about his legs if they are asked in the right spirit...He explains why he wears shorts .... His prosthetics have sharp edges that tear his pants when he falls — a daily occurrence, but “I just suck it up,” .....— and he cannot bend his feet....“Put your leg out straight, turn your foot up 90 degrees, leave your shoes on — because my shoes don’t come off — and try putting on a pair of pants and see how that works out for you,” he said....

Mr. Mast was serving in Kandahar, Afghanistan, on the night of Sept. 19, 2010, when he took a wrong step while crossing a bridge and a roadside bomb tore through his body....“I can remember it rattled my teeth,” he said. “I didn’t even know if I had teeth left in my mouth because the concussion of this explosion that took off both of my legs and nearly took off my arm.”

...Bill White, 73, who briefly served in the Navy. He said he appreciated the commitment veterans had demonstrated to their country, a willingness to make sacrifices that spoke volumes about them....“If I don’t know either candidate that was running for Congress, the veteran would get my vote,” he said.


https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/19/...or-congress-and-the-scrutiny-intensifies.html


******


Brian Mast is a decorated Combat Engineer ( Bronze Star, Purple Heart and more) turned Congressman for Florida's 18th District.

Again, your sweeping generalizations of the "GOP" are unsettling. It is NOT a monolith. The Republican Party is NOT a monolith. The Conservative base is NOT a monolith.

Are you still willing to associate Brian Mast, a Republican and part of the current GOP, as a "cancer"? Did he "put his country first"? Does he need to be "eradicated" before whatever he has to offer "metastasizes"?

"Treat the [FILL IN THE BLANK] like the cancer it is, put your country first, and eradicate it before it metastasizes."

I'd like you to [FILL IN THE BLANK] , regarding your very own words, a few times. See how it sounds if you started putting in groups based on race, religion, gender, culture, disability and on and on and on. How would that sound? Do you think you sound any better right now?
 
What do you do when it’s election denier vs a party you despise?
You vote against the election deniers to fix the party you love for the future. You follow and support Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger.( country over party)
Not much can be done when outside money is dictating elections now. Some of it is from the other party to get the preferred candidate knowing they won’t win.
 
Wait, are we using "election denier" like we use "anti vaxxer" in that we don't really mean that but it's an easy way to insult/vilify political opponents? Or are we using "election denier" like it's really bad for the other side to question an outcome but totally OK when our side does it?
No. Election Denier = somebody who still does not accept the results of the election and believe Trump won.

That is not nearly the same thing as people initially questioning the results of an election, especially close elections like this.
 
Wait, are we using "election denier" like we use "anti vaxxer" in that we don't really mean that but it's an easy way to insult/vilify political opponents? Or are we using "election denier" like it's really bad for the other side to question an outcome but totally OK when our side does it?
No. Election Denier = somebody who still does not accept the results of the election and believe Trump won.

That is not nearly the same thing as people initially questioning the results of an election, especially close elections like this.
@NorvilleBarnes and @BladeRunner do you accept the results of the 2020 election and do you view Biden as your legitimate president?

It is extremely sad that this question needs to be asked
 
Wait, are we using "election denier" like we use "anti vaxxer" in that we don't really mean that but it's an easy way to insult/vilify political opponents? Or are we using "election denier" like it's really bad for the other side to question an outcome but totally OK when our side does it?
No. Election Denier = somebody who still does not accept the results of the election and believe Trump won.

That is not nearly the same thing as people initially questioning the results of an election, especially close elections like this.
@NorvilleBarnes and @BladeRunner do you accept the results of the 2020 election and do you view Biden as your legitimate president?

It is extremely sad that this question needs to be asked
yes and Yes, but I've answered this before. Multiple times. Well, if I recall correctly, anyways.
 
The number
What do you do when it’s election denier vs a party you despise?
You vote against the election deniers to fix the party you love for the future. You follow and support Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger.( country over party)
Not much can be done when outside money is dictating elections now. Some of it is from the other party to get the preferred candidate knowing they won’t win.
The number of candidates the Democrats actually helped win is highly exaggerated.
 
The number
What do you do when it’s election denier vs a party you despise?
You vote against the election deniers to fix the party you love for the future. You follow and support Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger.( country over party)
Not much can be done when outside money is dictating elections now. Some of it is from the other party to get the preferred candidate knowing they won’t win.
The number of candidates the Democrats actually helped win is highly exaggerated.
The fact that they are even doing it can't be loud enough.
 
Wait, are we using "election denier" like we use "anti vaxxer" in that we don't really mean that but it's an easy way to insult/vilify political opponents? Or are we using "election denier" like it's really bad for the other side to question an outcome but totally OK when our side does it?
No. Election Denier = somebody who still does not accept the results of the election and believe Trump won.

That is not nearly the same thing as people initially questioning the results of an election, especially close elections like this.
@NorvilleBarnes and @BladeRunner do you accept the results of the 2020 election and do you view Biden as your legitimate president?

It is extremely sad that this question needs to be asked
I remember all the posters in 2016-17 saying "Not my President". Sad
 

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