Brian Hartline....It has been discussed but.... (1 Viewer)

[MAC_32]

Hartline had 3 good weeks and one not so good week. With that track record, I'd be giving a little leeway to anyone who crows about him. Especially when you look at his year to date production and compare him to the list of WR's that are in his area code. All guys taken several rounds ahead of him. All WR's have poor weeks, till Hartline has a string of them, don't expect anyone to shut up about Hartline. One week isn't going to do it, sorry Hartline hater.

Actually, I don't hate him at all. Local guy, people I know speak very highly of him. Hard worker, good head on his shoulders, never heard a bad word about him.

My issue has always been him not being an asset in fantasy football. Right now, even after a great start (relatively speaking), he is still just a WR3.

You guys must have different philosophies than me because I try not to roster players with WR3 upside.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Hartline had 3 good weeks and one not so good week. With that track record, I'd be giving a little leeway to anyone who crows about him. Especially when you look at his year to date production and compare him to the list of WR's that are in his area code. All guys taken several rounds ahead of him. All WR's have poor weeks, till Hartline has a string of them, don't expect anyone to shut up about Hartline. One week isn't going to do it, sorry Hartline hater.

Actually, I don't hate him at all. Local guy, people I know speak very highly of him. Hard worker, good head on his shoulders, never heard a bad word about him.

My issue has always been him not being an asset in fantasy football. Right now, even after a great start (relatively speaking), he is still just a WR3.

You guys must have different philosophies than me because I try not to roster players with WR3 upside.

Yes I am sure your roster is littered with only WR1 guys and WR 1 upside.

This is the definition of the hate I am referring to.

I started this thread long ago to show how many Hartline is an underrated player in real life and in fantasy.

Through 4 weeks he is still very much underrated.

 

[MAC_32]

Hartline had 3 good weeks and one not so good week. With that track record, I'd be giving a little leeway to anyone who crows about him. Especially when you look at his year to date production and compare him to the list of WR's that are in his area code. All guys taken several rounds ahead of him. All WR's have poor weeks, till Hartline has a string of them, don't expect anyone to shut up about Hartline. One week isn't going to do it, sorry Hartline hater.

Actually, I don't hate him at all. Local guy, people I know speak very highly of him. Hard worker, good head on his shoulders, never heard a bad word about him.

My issue has always been him not being an asset in fantasy football. Right now, even after a great start (relatively speaking), he is still just a WR3.

You guys must have different philosophies than me because I try not to roster players with WR3 upside.

Yes I am sure your roster is littered with only WR1 guys and WR 1 upside.

This is the definition of the hate I am referring to.

I started this thread long ago to show how many Hartline is an underrated player in real life and in fantasy.

Through 4 weeks he is still very much underrated.

No, but it's littered with WR4's with WR1 upside.

You take your Hartline's. I'll take my Gordon's, Edelman's, Boldin's, Thompkins, D Jacks, Michael Floyd's, Nuk's, Robert Woods', 2012 Danario's, 2012 Cobb's, 2011 Jordy's, 2011 Cruz, etc. while understanding among the several darts I throw I am going to have some misses.

All that matters is one of them hitting.

I prefer to find my Hartline's in season if all of my darts miss or too many of my starters get hurt/suck.

 

[zoonation]

lol.

right. I'm sure you drafted all those guys. i agree...with hindsight I'd rather have them in those years too.

Hartline was drafted in the 10-13th round. He is on pace for 80 balls, 1200 yards and 6-8 scores. Those aren't WR3 numbers.

But I'll wait until the end of the year and then look at what other flyers perfromed better and then come in here and say I would have preferred to have them instead.

Edit: He was the 54th WR off the board this year. Right with guys like DHB and Kendall Wright in the 13th round. The guy will aboslutely blow that ADP out of the water. Pretty good for those of us who don't draft in the 13th round expecting to land a WR1 (which is non-sense anyway).

 

[fightingillini]

Hartline had 3 good weeks and one not so good week. With that track record, I'd be giving a little leeway to anyone who crows about him. Especially when you look at his year to date production and compare him to the list of WR's that are in his area code. All guys taken several rounds ahead of him. All WR's have poor weeks, till Hartline has a string of them, don't expect anyone to shut up about Hartline. One week isn't going to do it, sorry Hartline hater.

Actually, I don't hate him at all. Local guy, people I know speak very highly of him. Hard worker, good head on his shoulders, never heard a bad word about him.

My issue has always been him not being an asset in fantasy football. Right now, even after a great start (relatively speaking), he is still just a WR3.

You guys must have different philosophies than me because I try not to roster players with WR3 upside.

Yes I am sure your roster is littered with only WR1 guys and WR 1 upside.

This is the definition of the hate I am referring to.

I started this thread long ago to show how many Hartline is an underrated player in real life and in fantasy.

Through 4 weeks he is still very much underrated.

No, but it's littered with WR4's with WR1 upside.

You take your Hartline's. I'll take my Gordon's, Edelman's, Boldin's, Thompkins, D Jacks, Michael Floyd's, Nuk's, Robert Woods', 2012 Danario's, 2012 Cobb's, 2011 Jordy's, 2011 Cruz, etc. while understanding among the several darts I throw I am going to have some misses.

All that matters is one of them hitting.

I prefer to find my Hartline's in season if all of my darts miss or too many of my starters get hurt/suck.

You make it sound like it's so easy to hit that home run WR4 that turns out to be a WR1.

BTW, please list the other WR4s that missed being a WR1. The hit ratio is pretty low. For every Victor Cruz, lies 10 other WRs that missed (like say, Denarius Moore or Darrius Heyward-Bey). The odds are stacked against you.

Now I agree with you that Hartline doesn't have WR1 potential. But to say his ceiling is WR3 is flat out wrong in PPR leagues. Hartline is on pace to catch 84 passes for 1090 yards and 8 TDs. Now I don't think he will actually catch 8 TDs, but if you don't think 84/1090/8 is value, I don't know what to tell you.

Hartline is definitely a startable WR in start 3 WR leagues. And many drafted him as a WR4 or WR5, and Hartline becomes a great bench player to plug in during byes and injuries.

 

[zoonation]

^

stop making sense in here.

 

[MAC_32]

Hartline had 3 good weeks and one not so good week. With that track record, I'd be giving a little leeway to anyone who crows about him. Especially when you look at his year to date production and compare him to the list of WR's that are in his area code. All guys taken several rounds ahead of him. All WR's have poor weeks, till Hartline has a string of them, don't expect anyone to shut up about Hartline. One week isn't going to do it, sorry Hartline hater.

Actually, I don't hate him at all. Local guy, people I know speak very highly of him. Hard worker, good head on his shoulders, never heard a bad word about him.

My issue has always been him not being an asset in fantasy football. Right now, even after a great start (relatively speaking), he is still just a WR3.

You guys must have different philosophies than me because I try not to roster players with WR3 upside.

Yes I am sure your roster is littered with only WR1 guys and WR 1 upside.

This is the definition of the hate I am referring to.

I started this thread long ago to show how many Hartline is an underrated player in real life and in fantasy.

Through 4 weeks he is still very much underrated.

No, but it's littered with WR4's with WR1 upside.

You take your Hartline's. I'll take my Gordon's, Edelman's, Boldin's, Thompkins, D Jacks, Michael Floyd's, Nuk's, Robert Woods', 2012 Danario's, 2012 Cobb's, 2011 Jordy's, 2011 Cruz, etc. while understanding among the several darts I throw I am going to have some misses.

All that matters is one of them hitting.

I prefer to find my Hartline's in season if all of my darts miss or too many of my starters get hurt/suck.

You make it sound like it's so easy to hit that home run WR4 that turns out to be a WR1.

BTW, please list the other WR4s that missed being a WR1. The hit ratio is pretty low. For every Victor Cruz, lies 10 other WRs that missed (like say, Denarius Moore or Darrius Heyward-Bey). The odds are stacked against you.

Now I agree with you that Hartline doesn't have WR1 potential. But to say his ceiling is WR3 is flat out wrong in PPR leagues. Hartline is on pace to catch 84 passes for 1090 yards and 8 TDs. Now I don't think he will actually catch 8 TDs, but if you don't think 84/1090/8 is value, I don't know what to tell you.

Hartline is definitely a startable WR in start 3 WR leagues. And many drafted him as a WR4 or WR5, and Hartline becomes a great bench player to plug in during byes and injuries.

It isn't easy to find those pieces of gold, but if you throw several of those darts your chance of a connection is much greater. I would rather miss trying to hit a home run then have to scratch and claw midseason. My style, doesn't have to be yours, it works for me. I seem to do a good job avoiding the young landmines, so maybe I just trust my eye more than others. Sometimes you find Miles Austin 2009 or Sidney Rice 2009, sometimes you find Sidney Rice every other year. Whatever, move on, try to find someone else.

Hartline is WR25 in PPG in PPR right now. He was WR38 last year (technically WR40 but I removed Jordan Norwood and Stallworth for obvious reason). He has played well according to your standards (a Hartline supporter), which is currently on pace to be a good WR3. A good season last year resulted in a WR4.

 

[MAC_32]

lol.

right. I'm sure you drafted all those guys. i agree...with hindsight I'd rather have them in those years too.

Draft? No, not all of them. Some of them. The others I picked up in season. These types seem to be the common denominators on my championship teams.

 

[Judge Smails]

I'm cutting him today after watching last night. Granted, I have AJ Green, Cruz, Antonio Brown, Jordan Cameron, Julius Thomas and a returning Blackmon in a 3WR start, 1 flex, non TE mandatory league so I'm loaded. I'll never start him over those guys.

 

[zoonation]

let's be clear. he is playing lights out for a 13th round pick. WR55 off the board. Currently WR24 in PPR.

and, your argument would have more purchase if you were less bias. He is WR24 which is low end WR2 numbers. He is 4 points (1 point a week) behind guys like Decker, who were drafted 6-8 rounds earlier.

also, he was WR28 in PPR last year and 6 total points (1TD) removed from puting up low end WR2 numbers. Right there with guys like Torrey Smith, Mike Wallace and the like.

he has played more than "well" according to anyone who applies a modicum of objectivity to the analysis. Last year and again to start out this year. The guy is the definition of value and an excellent WR3 or bye week plug in.

but don't let the actual numbers derail you here...

 

[zoonation]

lol.

right. I'm sure you drafted all those guys. i agree...with hindsight I'd rather have them in those years too.

Draft? No, not all of them. Some of them. The others I picked up in season. These types seem to be the common denominators on my championship teams.

I have Hartline as my WR4 (behind Graham, Welker and Garcon). I think he will do nicely as a fill-in this week when Garcon is out. Floor of about 6-8. Ceiling of 20ish. Works for me.

 

[Casting Couch]

let's be clear. he is playing lights out for a 13th round pick. WR55 off the board. Currently WR24 in PPR.

and, your argument would have more purchase if you were less bias. He is WR24 which is low end WR2 numbers. He is 4 points (1 point a week) behind guys like Decker, who were drafted 6-8 rounds earlier.

also, he was WR28 in PPR last year and 6 total points (1TD) removed from puting up low end WR2 numbers. Right there with guys like Torrey Smith, Mike Wallace and the like.

he has played more than "well" according to anyone who applies a modicum of objectivity to the analysis. Last year and again to start out this year. The guy is the definition of value and an excellent WR3 or bye week plug in.

but don't let the actual numbers derail you here...

 

[fightingillini]

Hartline had 3 good weeks and one not so good week. With that track record, I'd be giving a little leeway to anyone who crows about him. Especially when you look at his year to date production and compare him to the list of WR's that are in his area code. All guys taken several rounds ahead of him. All WR's have poor weeks, till Hartline has a string of them, don't expect anyone to shut up about Hartline. One week isn't going to do it, sorry Hartline hater.

Actually, I don't hate him at all. Local guy, people I know speak very highly of him. Hard worker, good head on his shoulders, never heard a bad word about him.

My issue has always been him not being an asset in fantasy football. Right now, even after a great start (relatively speaking), he is still just a WR3.

You guys must have different philosophies than me because I try not to roster players with WR3 upside.

Yes I am sure your roster is littered with only WR1 guys and WR 1 upside.

This is the definition of the hate I am referring to.

I started this thread long ago to show how many Hartline is an underrated player in real life and in fantasy.

Through 4 weeks he is still very much underrated.

No, but it's littered with WR4's with WR1 upside.

You take your Hartline's. I'll take my Gordon's, Edelman's, Boldin's, Thompkins, D Jacks, Michael Floyd's, Nuk's, Robert Woods', 2012 Danario's, 2012 Cobb's, 2011 Jordy's, 2011 Cruz, etc. while understanding among the several darts I throw I am going to have some misses.

All that matters is one of them hitting.

I prefer to find my Hartline's in season if all of my darts miss or too many of my starters get hurt/suck.

You make it sound like it's so easy to hit that home run WR4 that turns out to be a WR1.

BTW, please list the other WR4s that missed being a WR1. The hit ratio is pretty low. For every Victor Cruz, lies 10 other WRs that missed (like say, Denarius Moore or Darrius Heyward-Bey). The odds are stacked against you.

Now I agree with you that Hartline doesn't have WR1 potential. But to say his ceiling is WR3 is flat out wrong in PPR leagues. Hartline is on pace to catch 84 passes for 1090 yards and 8 TDs. Now I don't think he will actually catch 8 TDs, but if you don't think 84/1090/8 is value, I don't know what to tell you.

Hartline is definitely a startable WR in start 3 WR leagues. And many drafted him as a WR4 or WR5, and Hartline becomes a great bench player to plug in during byes and injuries.

It isn't easy to find those pieces of gold, but if you throw several of those darts your chance of a connection is much greater. I would rather miss trying to hit a home run then have to scratch and claw midseason. My style, doesn't have to be yours, it works for me. I seem to do a good job avoiding the young landmines, so maybe I just trust my eye more than others. Sometimes you find Miles Austin 2009 or Sidney Rice 2009, sometimes you find Sidney Rice every other year. Whatever, move on, try to find someone else.

Hartline is WR25 in PPG in PPR right now. He was WR38 last year (technically WR40 but I removed Jordan Norwood and Stallworth for obvious reason). He has played well according to your standards (a Hartline supporter), which is currently on pace to be a good WR3. A good season last year resulted in a WR4.

I certainly try to hit the homeruns as well. But you also need guys that can help you hold down the fort while you look for that homerun. Hartline is that kind of guy.

It really depends on the makeup of your team. If you feel that you have an advantage at other positions other than the WR3, Hartline helps in protecting that advantage, becuase while he usually won't blow up, but he also usually doesn't crap the bed.....you know about what you're getting......4-6 catches for 50-80 yards, and if he scores a TD, even better. Well.....he did crap the bed last night, but all WRs do on occasion.

But his current pace of 84/1090/8 is better than your typical WR3. Currently he's a fringe WR2 in a 12-team PPR league.

 

[fightingillini]

I'm cutting him today after watching last night. Granted, I have AJ Green, Cruz, Antonio Brown, Jordan Cameron, Julius Thomas and a returning Blackmon in a 3WR start, 1 flex, non TE mandatory league so I'm loaded. I'll never start him over those guys.Tj

Then why not throw him in some deal to sweeten the pot a little? Or trade one of your other WRs/TEs to get an upgrade at RB or QB and use Hartline as a WR3 or WR4?

And BTW, in a 3WR/1 Flex start league, you can't have enough WR options. Sure Hartline is behind the guys that you have (except maybe Blackmon), you have nice injury protection.

Also, NO D is actually pretty good. I wouldn't use that game as a total barometer as to what to expect in MIA going forward.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Also, NO D is actually pretty good. I wouldn't use that game as a total barometer as to what to expect in MIA going forward.

No kidding. I picked them up as a rent-a-defense, but looking over their weekly scores, I am convinced I need to hold on to them.

 

[MAC_32]

and, your argument would have more purchase if you were less bias.

also, he was WR28 in PPR last year and 6 total points (1TD) removed from puting up low end WR2 numbers.

How am I bias? Because I don't like to roster 4-50 WR's that don't score touchdowns?

PPG is a much more meaningful metric than total points scored. It doesn't paint the whole picture, but it fills in more of the cracks.

 

[MAC_32]

Hartline had 3 good weeks and one not so good week. With that track record, I'd be giving a little leeway to anyone who crows about him. Especially when you look at his year to date production and compare him to the list of WR's that are in his area code. All guys taken several rounds ahead of him. All WR's have poor weeks, till Hartline has a string of them, don't expect anyone to shut up about Hartline. One week isn't going to do it, sorry Hartline hater.

Actually, I don't hate him at all. Local guy, people I know speak very highly of him. Hard worker, good head on his shoulders, never heard a bad word about him.

My issue has always been him not being an asset in fantasy football. Right now, even after a great start (relatively speaking), he is still just a WR3.

You guys must have different philosophies than me because I try not to roster players with WR3 upside.

Yes I am sure your roster is littered with only WR1 guys and WR 1 upside.

This is the definition of the hate I am referring to.

I started this thread long ago to show how many Hartline is an underrated player in real life and in fantasy.

Through 4 weeks he is still very much underrated.

No, but it's littered with WR4's with WR1 upside.

You take your Hartline's. I'll take my Gordon's, Edelman's, Boldin's, Thompkins, D Jacks, Michael Floyd's, Nuk's, Robert Woods', 2012 Danario's, 2012 Cobb's, 2011 Jordy's, 2011 Cruz, etc. while understanding among the several darts I throw I am going to have some misses.

All that matters is one of them hitting.

I prefer to find my Hartline's in season if all of my darts miss or too many of my starters get hurt/suck.

You make it sound like it's so easy to hit that home run WR4 that turns out to be a WR1.

BTW, please list the other WR4s that missed being a WR1. The hit ratio is pretty low. For every Victor Cruz, lies 10 other WRs that missed (like say, Denarius Moore or Darrius Heyward-Bey). The odds are stacked against you.

Now I agree with you that Hartline doesn't have WR1 potential. But to say his ceiling is WR3 is flat out wrong in PPR leagues. Hartline is on pace to catch 84 passes for 1090 yards and 8 TDs. Now I don't think he will actually catch 8 TDs, but if you don't think 84/1090/8 is value, I don't know what to tell you.

Hartline is definitely a startable WR in start 3 WR leagues. And many drafted him as a WR4 or WR5, and Hartline becomes a great bench player to plug in during byes and injuries.

It isn't easy to find those pieces of gold, but if you throw several of those darts your chance of a connection is much greater. I would rather miss trying to hit a home run then have to scratch and claw midseason. My style, doesn't have to be yours, it works for me. I seem to do a good job avoiding the young landmines, so maybe I just trust my eye more than others. Sometimes you find Miles Austin 2009 or Sidney Rice 2009, sometimes you find Sidney Rice every other year. Whatever, move on, try to find someone else.

Hartline is WR25 in PPG in PPR right now. He was WR38 last year (technically WR40 but I removed Jordan Norwood and Stallworth for obvious reason). He has played well according to your standards (a Hartline supporter), which is currently on pace to be a good WR3. A good season last year resulted in a WR4.

I certainly try to hit the homeruns as well. But you also need guys that can help you hold down the fort while you look for that homerun. Hartline is that kind of guy.

I don't agree with this strategy. Draft 3 starters, throw 4 darts, if better darts become available early in the season replace them, if none of the darts hit by the time the bye weeks roll around then go to waivers and see what you can uncover. I fill my bench with upside, not someone to hold down the fort.

 

[fightingillini]

Hartline had 3 good weeks and one not so good week. With that track record, I'd be giving a little leeway to anyone who crows about him. Especially when you look at his year to date production and compare him to the list of WR's that are in his area code. All guys taken several rounds ahead of him. All WR's have poor weeks, till Hartline has a string of them, don't expect anyone to shut up about Hartline. One week isn't going to do it, sorry Hartline hater.

Actually, I don't hate him at all. Local guy, people I know speak very highly of him. Hard worker, good head on his shoulders, never heard a bad word about him.

My issue has always been him not being an asset in fantasy football. Right now, even after a great start (relatively speaking), he is still just a WR3.

You guys must have different philosophies than me because I try not to roster players with WR3 upside.

Yes I am sure your roster is littered with only WR1 guys and WR 1 upside.

This is the definition of the hate I am referring to.

I started this thread long ago to show how many Hartline is an underrated player in real life and in fantasy.

Through 4 weeks he is still very much underrated.

No, but it's littered with WR4's with WR1 upside.

You take your Hartline's. I'll take my Gordon's, Edelman's, Boldin's, Thompkins, D Jacks, Michael Floyd's, Nuk's, Robert Woods', 2012 Danario's, 2012 Cobb's, 2011 Jordy's, 2011 Cruz, etc. while understanding among the several darts I throw I am going to have some misses.

All that matters is one of them hitting.

I prefer to find my Hartline's in season if all of my darts miss or too many of my starters get hurt/suck.

You make it sound like it's so easy to hit that home run WR4 that turns out to be a WR1.

BTW, please list the other WR4s that missed being a WR1. The hit ratio is pretty low. For every Victor Cruz, lies 10 other WRs that missed (like say, Denarius Moore or Darrius Heyward-Bey). The odds are stacked against you.

Now I agree with you that Hartline doesn't have WR1 potential. But to say his ceiling is WR3 is flat out wrong in PPR leagues. Hartline is on pace to catch 84 passes for 1090 yards and 8 TDs. Now I don't think he will actually catch 8 TDs, but if you don't think 84/1090/8 is value, I don't know what to tell you.

Hartline is definitely a startable WR in start 3 WR leagues. And many drafted him as a WR4 or WR5, and Hartline becomes a great bench player to plug in during byes and injuries.

It isn't easy to find those pieces of gold, but if you throw several of those darts your chance of a connection is much greater. I would rather miss trying to hit a home run then have to scratch and claw midseason. My style, doesn't have to be yours, it works for me. I seem to do a good job avoiding the young landmines, so maybe I just trust my eye more than others. Sometimes you find Miles Austin 2009 or Sidney Rice 2009, sometimes you find Sidney Rice every other year. Whatever, move on, try to find someone else.

Hartline is WR25 in PPG in PPR right now. He was WR38 last year (technically WR40 but I removed Jordan Norwood and Stallworth for obvious reason). He has played well according to your standards (a Hartline supporter), which is currently on pace to be a good WR3. A good season last year resulted in a WR4.

I certainly try to hit the homeruns as well. But you also need guys that can help you hold down the fort while you look for that homerun. Hartline is that kind of guy.

I don't agree with this strategy. Draft 3 starters, throw 4 darts, if better darts become available early in the season replace them, if none of the darts hit by the time the bye weeks roll around then go to waivers and see what you can uncover. I fill my bench with upside, not someone to hold down the fort.

Then what do you do during bye weeks/injuries?

I am sure why not draft 3 starters, Hartline, and throw 3 darts? Now you have the best of all worlds....your starters, your main backup to cover injuries/bye weeks, and you have 3 spots to search for the diamond in the rough.

Now if your league has shallow benches and a guy like Hartline is typically on the wire every week, then take your approach and use your bench to house high upside guys, since then you could pick up a guy like Hartline if you needed him in a pinch.

But most leagues I play in are deeper in benches, so I better have a decent option on the bench that can be ready to play if called upon, because the WRs on my league's WW are all desperation plays.

 

[zoonation]

I don't agree with this strategy. Draft 3 starters, throw 4 darts, if better darts become available early in the season replace them, if none of the darts hit by the time the bye weeks roll around then go to waivers and see what you can uncover. I fill my bench with upside, not someone to hold down the fort.

See, this is what I don't understand. How is Hartline not the definition of "upside" at his ADP? Look at the list of guys drafted behind him and give me 2 examples of the type of guys you are talking about. TIA.

 

[Judge Smails]

I'm cutting him today after watching last night. Granted, I have AJ Green, Cruz, Antonio Brown, Jordan Cameron, Julius Thomas and a returning Blackmon in a 3WR start, 1 flex, non TE mandatory league so I'm loaded. I'll never start him over those guys.Tj

Then why not throw him in some deal to sweeten the pot a little? Or trade one of your other WRs/TEs to get an upgrade at RB or QB and use Hartline as a WR3 or WR4?

And BTW, in a 3WR/1 Flex start league, you can't have enough WR options. Sure Hartline is behind the guys that you have (except maybe Blackmon), you have nice injury protection.

Also, NO D is actually pretty good. I wouldn't use that game as a total barometer as to what to expect in MIA going forward.

Nobody wants a Hartline in a relatively short bench league. Call it a bias against white receivers not named Welker or Nelson. I dunno. I just get no bites at all even including him in packages, and I need to make space for an RB pickup after Morris/McFadden got dinged. I do think he has value, but if my fellow owners don't I can't trade with myself.

 

[MAC_32]

Hartline had 3 good weeks and one not so good week. With that track record, I'd be giving a little leeway to anyone who crows about him. Especially when you look at his year to date production and compare him to the list of WR's that are in his area code. All guys taken several rounds ahead of him. All WR's have poor weeks, till Hartline has a string of them, don't expect anyone to shut up about Hartline. One week isn't going to do it, sorry Hartline hater.

Actually, I don't hate him at all. Local guy, people I know speak very highly of him. Hard worker, good head on his shoulders, never heard a bad word about him.My issue has always been him not being an asset in fantasy football. Right now, even after a great start (relatively speaking), he is still just a WR3.

You guys must have different philosophies than me because I try not to roster players with WR3 upside.

Yes I am sure your roster is littered with only WR1 guys and WR 1 upside.This is the definition of the hate I am referring to.

I started this thread long ago to show how many Hartline is an underrated player in real life and in fantasy.

Through 4 weeks he is still very much underrated.

No, but it's littered with WR4's with WR1 upside.You take your Hartline's. I'll take my Gordon's, Edelman's, Boldin's, Thompkins, D Jacks, Michael Floyd's, Nuk's, Robert Woods', 2012 Danario's, 2012 Cobb's, 2011 Jordy's, 2011 Cruz, etc. while understanding among the several darts I throw I am going to have some misses.

All that matters is one of them hitting.

I prefer to find my Hartline's in season if all of my darts miss or too many of my starters get hurt/suck.

You make it sound like it's so easy to hit that home run WR4 that turns out to be a WR1.

BTW, please list the other WR4s that missed being a WR1. The hit ratio is pretty low. For every Victor Cruz, lies 10 other WRs that missed (like say, Denarius Moore or Darrius Heyward-Bey). The odds are stacked against you.

Now I agree with you that Hartline doesn't have WR1 potential. But to say his ceiling is WR3 is flat out wrong in PPR leagues. Hartline is on pace to catch 84 passes for 1090 yards and 8 TDs. Now I don't think he will actually catch 8 TDs, but if you don't think 84/1090/8 is value, I don't know what to tell you.

Hartline is definitely a startable WR in start 3 WR leagues. And many drafted him as a WR4 or WR5, and Hartline becomes a great bench player to plug in during byes and injuries.

It isn't easy to find those pieces of gold, but if you throw several of those darts your chance of a connection is much greater. I would rather miss trying to hit a home run then have to scratch and claw midseason. My style, doesn't have to be yours, it works for me. I seem to do a good job avoiding the young landmines, so maybe I just trust my eye more than others. Sometimes you find Miles Austin 2009 or Sidney Rice 2009, sometimes you find Sidney Rice every other year. Whatever, move on, try to find someone else. Hartline is WR25 in PPG in PPR right now. He was WR38 last year (technically WR40 but I removed Jordan Norwood and Stallworth for obvious reason). He has played well according to your standards (a Hartline supporter), which is currently on pace to be a good WR3. A good season last year resulted in a WR4.

I certainly try to hit the homeruns as well. But you also need guys that can help you hold down the fort while you look for that homerun. Hartline is that kind of guy.

I don't agree with this strategy. Draft 3 starters, throw 4 darts, if better darts become available early in the season replace them, if none of the darts hit by the time the bye weeks roll around then go to waivers and see what you can uncover. I fill my bench with upside, not someone to hold down the fort.

Then what do you do during bye weeks/injuries?I am sure why not draft 3 starters, Hartline, and throw 3 darts? Now you have the best of all worlds....your starters, your main backup to cover injuries/bye weeks, and you have 3 spots to search for the diamond in the rough.

Now if your league has shallow benches and a guy like Hartline is typically on the wire every week, then take your approach and use your bench to house high upside guys, since then you could pick up a guy like Hartline if you needed him in a pinch.

But most leagues I play in are deeper in benches, so I better have a decent option on the bench that can be ready to play if called upon, because the WRs on my league's WW are all desperation plays.

to cover byes, injuries, and suckiness ideally I start one of the darts. If I need to go dumpster diving on waivers then so be it. Usually don't have to but it happens.

 

[MAC_32]

I don't agree with this strategy. Draft 3 starters, throw 4 darts, if better darts become available early in the season replace them, if none of the darts hit by the time the bye weeks roll around then go to waivers and see what you can uncover. I fill my bench with upside, not someone to hold down the fort.

See, this is what I don't understand. How is Hartline not the definition of "upside" at his ADP? Look at the list of guys drafted behind him and give me 2 examples of the type of guys you are talking about. TIA.

what list?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I don't agree with this strategy. Draft 3 starters, throw 4 darts, if better darts become available early in the season replace them, if none of the darts hit by the time the bye weeks roll around then go to waivers and see what you can uncover. I fill my bench with upside, not someone to hold down the fort.

See, this is what I don't understand. How is Hartline not the definition of "upside" at his ADP? Look at the list of guys drafted behind him and give me 2 examples of the type of guys you are talking about. TIA.

10th-11th round selection, a WR4/5 at best for many owners going into the season, Hartline gets a solid B+/A- for where he was selected to this point.

 

[davearm]

No, but it's littered with WR4's with WR1 upside.

You take your Hartline's. I'll take my Gordon's, Edelman's, Boldin's, Thompkins, D Jacks, Michael Floyd's, Nuk's, Robert Woods', 2012 Danario's, 2012 Cobb's, 2011 Jordy's, 2011 Cruz, etc. while understanding among the several darts I throw I am going to have some misses.

All that matters is one of them hitting.

I prefer to find my Hartline's in season if all of my darts miss or too many of my starters get hurt/suck.

The guys you listed that have more upside than Hartline were also drafted several rounds earlier (Gordon, Boldin, Jackson). The guys drafted at or after Hartline have WR1 potential in your imagination only... Assuming by WR1 you mean players in the top 12 in the league.

 

[fightingillini]

No, but it's littered with WR4's with WR1 upside.

You take your Hartline's. I'll take my Gordon's, Edelman's, Boldin's, Thompkins, D Jacks, Michael Floyd's, Nuk's, Robert Woods', 2012 Danario's, 2012 Cobb's, 2011 Jordy's, 2011 Cruz, etc. while understanding among the several darts I throw I am going to have some misses.

All that matters is one of them hitting.

I prefer to find my Hartline's in season if all of my darts miss or too many of my starters get hurt/suck.

The guys you listed that have more upside than Hartline were also drafted several rounds earlier (Gordon, Boldin, Jackson). The guys drafted at or after Hartline have WR1 potential in your imagination only... Assuming by WR1 you mean players in the top 12 in the league.

Exactly.

I thought the goal of drafting was to draft players that would outperform their draft slot. Sure, it would be nice to get a player drafted in Rounds 9 or later or off the WW that would become a WR1 (top 12 WR), but that doesn't happen very often. And it's not like I don't try to hit that homerun.

Hartline isn't a sexy player, but he's outperformed his draft slot easily. He's a startable WR in PPR leagues, even though MAC_32 won't admit that.

 

[fightingillini]

Hartline had 3 good weeks and one not so good week. With that track record, I'd be giving a little leeway to anyone who crows about him. Especially when you look at his year to date production and compare him to the list of WR's that are in his area code. All guys taken several rounds ahead of him. All WR's have poor weeks, till Hartline has a string of them, don't expect anyone to shut up about Hartline. One week isn't going to do it, sorry Hartline hater.

Actually, I don't hate him at all. Local guy, people I know speak very highly of him. Hard worker, good head on his shoulders, never heard a bad word about him.My issue has always been him not being an asset in fantasy football. Right now, even after a great start (relatively speaking), he is still just a WR3.

You guys must have different philosophies than me because I try not to roster players with WR3 upside.

Yes I am sure your roster is littered with only WR1 guys and WR 1 upside.This is the definition of the hate I am referring to.

I started this thread long ago to show how many Hartline is an underrated player in real life and in fantasy.

Through 4 weeks he is still very much underrated.

No, but it's littered with WR4's with WR1 upside.You take your Hartline's. I'll take my Gordon's, Edelman's, Boldin's, Thompkins, D Jacks, Michael Floyd's, Nuk's, Robert Woods', 2012 Danario's, 2012 Cobb's, 2011 Jordy's, 2011 Cruz, etc. while understanding among the several darts I throw I am going to have some misses.

All that matters is one of them hitting.

I prefer to find my Hartline's in season if all of my darts miss or too many of my starters get hurt/suck.

You make it sound like it's so easy to hit that home run WR4 that turns out to be a WR1.

BTW, please list the other WR4s that missed being a WR1. The hit ratio is pretty low. For every Victor Cruz, lies 10 other WRs that missed (like say, Denarius Moore or Darrius Heyward-Bey). The odds are stacked against you.

Now I agree with you that Hartline doesn't have WR1 potential. But to say his ceiling is WR3 is flat out wrong in PPR leagues. Hartline is on pace to catch 84 passes for 1090 yards and 8 TDs. Now I don't think he will actually catch 8 TDs, but if you don't think 84/1090/8 is value, I don't know what to tell you.

Hartline is definitely a startable WR in start 3 WR leagues. And many drafted him as a WR4 or WR5, and Hartline becomes a great bench player to plug in during byes and injuries.

It isn't easy to find those pieces of gold, but if you throw several of those darts your chance of a connection is much greater. I would rather miss trying to hit a home run then have to scratch and claw midseason. My style, doesn't have to be yours, it works for me. I seem to do a good job avoiding the young landmines, so maybe I just trust my eye more than others. Sometimes you find Miles Austin 2009 or Sidney Rice 2009, sometimes you find Sidney Rice every other year. Whatever, move on, try to find someone else. Hartline is WR25 in PPG in PPR right now. He was WR38 last year (technically WR40 but I removed Jordan Norwood and Stallworth for obvious reason). He has played well according to your standards (a Hartline supporter), which is currently on pace to be a good WR3. A good season last year resulted in a WR4.

I certainly try to hit the homeruns as well. But you also need guys that can help you hold down the fort while you look for that homerun. Hartline is that kind of guy.

I don't agree with this strategy. Draft 3 starters, throw 4 darts, if better darts become available early in the season replace them, if none of the darts hit by the time the bye weeks roll around then go to waivers and see what you can uncover. I fill my bench with upside, not someone to hold down the fort.

Then what do you do during bye weeks/injuries?I am sure why not draft 3 starters, Hartline, and throw 3 darts? Now you have the best of all worlds....your starters, your main backup to cover injuries/bye weeks, and you have 3 spots to search for the diamond in the rough.

Now if your league has shallow benches and a guy like Hartline is typically on the wire every week, then take your approach and use your bench to house high upside guys, since then you could pick up a guy like Hartline if you needed him in a pinch.

But most leagues I play in are deeper in benches, so I better have a decent option on the bench that can be ready to play if called upon, because the WRs on my league's WW are all desperation plays.

to cover byes, injuries, and suckiness ideally I start one of the darts. If I need to go dumpster diving on waivers then so be it. Usually don't have to but it happens.

So say you have to start 3WRs and they each have a different bye, you plan on starting some diamond in the rough for 3 weeks? So for 3 weeks you will be likely be at a bigger disadvantage than if you drafted a decent WR4 like Hartline (where Hartline was drafted as a WR4). To me that's a lot of points to give up in those weeks while looking for the homerun.

Fine.....I personally think that puts you in a bigger disadvantage that you need to, but you do have one extra spot to hit that homerun. But the problem is.....you don't know when that WR is going to hit the jackpot. It may occur in Week 10, but by that time, you're 3-6 and your lottery ticket isn't going to pay off for you when you miss the playoffs. If you somehow get through the 1st 9 weeks 5-4 or so, then you're golden. The WR could hit the jackpot in Week 10, but you picked them up in Week 5 and cut them by Week 8 and lost out on them. How long do you wait?

What I am trying to say is.....it takes a lot of luck to hit these homeruns. You need depth to get you to the playoffs.

 

[MAC_32]

I thought the goal of drafting was to draft players that would outperform their draft slot.

It's more than that. I don't want to roster a WR on my bench whose upside is around #30. I don't want to roster a RB whose upside is around #25. I don't want to roster a QB whose upside is around #12. I want to roster WR's who I think could be in that 15-20 range or higher, RB's who could be top 15, QB's who could be top 7.

Just outperforming your draft slot doesn't necessarily mean a weekly advantage at the position or trade leverage. Look at your opponent most weeks, would you rather have their weak link at WR? or Hartline? 9 times out of 10 I'm saying the other guy.

 

[MAC_32]

No, but it's littered with WR4's with WR1 upside.

You take your Hartline's. I'll take my Gordon's, Edelman's, Boldin's, Thompkins, D Jacks, Michael Floyd's, Nuk's, Robert Woods', 2012 Danario's, 2012 Cobb's, 2011 Jordy's, 2011 Cruz, etc. while understanding among the several darts I throw I am going to have some misses.

All that matters is one of them hitting.

I prefer to find my Hartline's in season if all of my darts miss or too many of my starters get hurt/suck.

The guys you listed that have more upside than Hartline were also drafted several rounds earlier (Gordon, Boldin, Jackson). The guys drafted at or after Hartline have WR1 potential in your imagination only... Assuming by WR1 you mean players in the top 12 in the league.

You're allowed to have a different opinion, but I think you're dead wrong about guys like Thompkins, Floyd, Nuk, Woods, etc. not having that sort of upside. They have the makeup of a potential WR1 - guys that can make plays between the 20's, down field, and in the red zone. They're not a role player like Hartline, they all have star potential.

 

[MAC_32]

Then what do you do during bye weeks/injuries?I am sure why not draft 3 starters, Hartline, and throw 3 darts? Now you have the best of all worlds....your starters, your main backup to cover injuries/bye weeks, and you have 3 spots to search for the diamond in the rough.

Now if your league has shallow benches and a guy like Hartline is typically on the wire every week, then take your approach and use your bench to house high upside guys, since then you could pick up a guy like Hartline if you needed him in a pinch.

But most leagues I play in are deeper in benches, so I better have a decent option on the bench that can be ready to play if called upon, because the WRs on my league's WW are all desperation plays.

to cover byes, injuries, and suckiness ideally I start one of the darts. If I need to go dumpster diving on waivers then so be it. Usually don't have to but it happens.

So say you have to start 3WRs and they each have a different bye, you plan on starting some diamond in the rough for 3 weeks? So for 3 weeks you will be likely be at a bigger disadvantage than if you drafted a decent WR4 like Hartline (where Hartline was drafted as a WR4). To me that's a lot of points to give up in those weeks while looking for the homerun.

Fine.....I personally think that puts you in a bigger disadvantage that you need to, but you do have one extra spot to hit that homerun. But the problem is.....you don't know when that WR is going to hit the jackpot. It may occur in Week 10, but by that time, you're 3-6 and your lottery ticket isn't going to pay off for you when you miss the playoffs. If you somehow get through the 1st 9 weeks 5-4 or so, then you're golden. The WR could hit the jackpot in Week 10, but you picked them up in Week 5 and cut them by Week 8 and lost out on them. How long do you wait?

What I am trying to say is.....it takes a lot of luck to hit these homeruns. You need depth to get you to the playoffs.

It usually has a way of working itself out. Miles Austin in 2009. I missed Lloyd in 10, but Wallace and Collie (while healthy) were solid. Cruz in 11. Danario last year.

Would you rather start them or Hartline?

I'm not arguing that your method is a failure, but you're crazy for saying my method doesn't work.

 

[davearm]

Hartline's upside isn't WR30. Therein lies the flaw in your premise.

 

[davearm]

No, but it's littered with WR4's with WR1 upside.

You take your Hartline's. I'll take my Gordon's, Edelman's, Boldin's, Thompkins, D Jacks, Michael Floyd's, Nuk's, Robert Woods', 2012 Danario's, 2012 Cobb's, 2011 Jordy's, 2011 Cruz, etc. while understanding among the several darts I throw I am going to have some misses.

All that matters is one of them hitting.

I prefer to find my Hartline's in season if all of my darts miss or too many of my starters get hurt/suck.

The guys you listed that have more upside than Hartline were also drafted several rounds earlier (Gordon, Boldin, Jackson). The guys drafted at or after Hartline have WR1 potential in your imagination only... Assuming by WR1 you mean players in the top 12 in the league.

You're allowed to have a different opinion, but I think you're dead wrong about guys like Thompkins, Floyd, Nuk, Woods, etc. not having that sort of upside. They have the makeup of a potential WR1 - guys that can make plays between the 20's, down field, and in the red zone. They're not a role player like Hartline, they all have star potential.

I suppose any NE WR has WR1 upside, but then again Thompkins is an undrafted rookie not by accident.

The others, no flippin way. A rookie QB (Manuel) and a subpar offense is not going to make a rookie WR a WR1 (Woods), especially with a more established guy ahead of him (Stevie Johnson).

Ditto virtually all of that, less the rookie part, for Floyd. Honestly, the #2/3 WR in Arizona is suddenly going to explode? C'mon.

And I don't even know who Nuk is.

 

[MAC_32]

Hartline's upside isn't WR30. Therein lies the flaw in your premise.

He's in his 5th year and his best PPG ranking is his current WR25 through 4 games, so yeah, his upside is WR30...in my opinion...I'm allowed to have a different one than you. Groupthink is no way to win at anything. We'll see how the next 12 games go. I expect him to not end up any higher than the WR30something range. I expect one or more of my guys to be a top 20 play come playoffs, maybe sooner.

We'll see.

 

[davearm]

Hartline's upside isn't WR30. Therein lies the flaw in your premise.

He's in his 5th year and his best PPG ranking is his current WR25 through 4 games, so yeah, his upside is WR30...in my opinion...I'm allowed to have a different one than you. Groupthink is no way to win at anything. We'll see how the next 12 games go. I expect him to not end up any higher than the WR30something range. I expect one or more of my guys to be a top 20 play come playoffs, maybe sooner.

We'll see.

Couple points:

A) Hartline caught 74 balls on 131 targets last year, but managed only 1 TD. That's an anomaly. The league average for WRs is a TD every ~14 catches, and ~23 targets, according to data dominator. At a league-average pace, he would have had between 5 and 6 TDs, and that would have ranked him between WR19 and WR23. This year the TDs have normalized, and he's sitting at WR23. I see no reason to expect the targets and receptions to dip, so sticking in that WR20-25ish range seems pretty reasonable.

B) Hartline only takes one roster spot. You can't sit here and say, "I expect one of my 3/4/5 guys to be better than him". I'd rather have 5 flyers than one Hartline too. But I'd rather have one Hartline than one flyer. If you want to pick one guy from your list that you think will outperform Hartline, then let's hear who it is.

 

[zoonation]

Hartline's upside isn't WR30. Therein lies the flaw in your premise.

Empirical data is not his thing. His argument completely derailed on this page.

Again, based on the consensus ADP for this year, as of September 4, (free on the footballguys website), Hartline had an ADP of 150. That is round 12-13. Through the first quarter of the season he is currently WR24 (where he finished last year), putting up weekly point totals of 26, 11, 15, 6. That is good for low end WR2 numbers. He was drafted as WR55.

But MAC 32 would rather go dumpster diving or throw a dart than take those numbers in a flex position on a bye week...

All of the guys he listed (Nuk, Flloyd, Woods, Thompkins) are currently behind Hartline in total points. Nuk and Thompkins went WAY earlier in drafts and aren't even a proper barometer for gaging his value.

This argument is over. To suggest that Hartline isn't a complete winner value pick this year is willful blindness.

 

[MAC_32]

Hartline's upside isn't WR30. Therein lies the flaw in your premise.

He's in his 5th year and his best PPG ranking is his current WR25 through 4 games, so yeah, his upside is WR30...in my opinion...I'm allowed to have a different one than you. Groupthink is no way to win at anything. We'll see how the next 12 games go. I expect him to not end up any higher than the WR30something range. I expect one or more of my guys to be a top 20 play come playoffs, maybe sooner.

We'll see.

Couple points:

A) Hartline caught 74 balls on 131 targets last year, but managed only 1 TD. That's an anomaly. The league average for WRs is a TD every ~14 catches, and ~23 targets, according to data dominator. At a league-average pace, he would have had between 5 and 6 TDs, and that would have ranked him between WR19 and WR23. This year the TDs have normalized, and he's sitting at WR23. I see no reason to expect the targets and receptions to dip, so sticking in that WR20-25ish range seems pretty reasonable.

B) Hartline only takes one roster spot. You can't sit here and say, "I expect one of my 3/4/5 guys to be better than him". I'd rather have 5 flyers than one Hartline too. But I'd rather have one Hartline than one flyer. If you want to pick one guy from your list that you think will outperform Hartline, then let's hear who it is.

A - You and I aren't using the same baselines. Who's to say Hartline is league average when it comes to red zone effectiveness? Given his history of not getting in the end zone and how he is used in the offense 1 is low but I think 5-6 is his ceiling.

B - Then who do you have on your bench?

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Hartline's upside isn't WR30. Therein lies the flaw in your premise.

Empirical data is not his thing. His argument completely derailed on this page.

Again, based on the consensus ADP for this year, as of September 4, (free on the footballguys website), Hartline had an ADP of 150. That is round 12-13. Through the first quarter of the season he is currently WR24 (where he finished last year), putting up weekly point totals of 26, 11, 15, 6. That is good for low end WR2 numbers. He was drafted as WR55.

But MAC 32 would rather go dumpster diving or throw a dart than take those numbers in a flex position on a bye week...

All of the guys he listed (Nuk, Flloyd, Woods, Thompkins) are currently behind Hartline in total points. Nuk and Thompkins went WAY earlier in drafts and aren't even a proper barometer for gauging his value.

This argument is over. To suggest that Hartline isn't a complete winner value pick this year is willful blindness.

This should end Mac_32's argument, but it won't.

 

[MAC_32]

All of the guys he listed (Nuk, Flloyd, Woods, Thompkins) are currently behind Hartline in total points. Nuk and Thompkins went WAY earlier in drafts and aren't even a proper barometer for gauging his value.

Scoring more points weeks 1-4 on your bench doesn't mean anything. What are they going to do going forward? Way more important as we approach the bye weeks. Of all those darts in different leagues except for Edelman I have started exactly one of them one time so far. Floyd over Vincent Jackson last week. I'm starting him again this week to cover Jackson's bye, it doesn't look like I'm starting any others yet though.

I'm not a big ADP guy, ADP here is different than Yahoo which is different than ESPN which is different than MFL etc. I can't comment on who went before and after who when it what draft based on what ADP. In my leagues I picked Blackmon, Harvin, Crabtree, Nuk, Randle, Floyd, Woods, and Edelman between picks 120 and the end of the draft. I liked, and still like, all of them more than Hartline. Woods is close though, still not sold the playbook will be open enough for Manuel by the time I might need him to make him anything more than a #3.

 

[MAC_32]

Hartline's upside isn't WR30. Therein lies the flaw in your premise.

Empirical data is not his thing. His argument completely derailed on this page.

Again, based on the consensus ADP for this year, as of September 4, (free on the footballguys website), Hartline had an ADP of 150. That is round 12-13. Through the first quarter of the season he is currently WR24 (where he finished last year), putting up weekly point totals of 26, 11, 15, 6. That is good for low end WR2 numbers. He was drafted as WR55.

But MAC 32 would rather go dumpster diving or throw a dart than take those numbers in a flex position on a bye week...

All of the guys he listed (Nuk, Flloyd, Woods, Thompkins) are currently behind Hartline in total points. Nuk and Thompkins went WAY earlier in drafts and aren't even a proper barometer for gauging his value.

This argument is over. To suggest that Hartline isn't a complete winner value pick this year is willful blindness.

This should end Mac_32's argument, but it won't.

When has my argument ever been Hartline hasn't presented value so far at his ADP?

I'm not the greatest written communicator, so my point often gets lost, but that absolutely is not the point I have been making.

I think I have a better chance at a title by swinging for home runs when it comes to bench options on my roster. You guys prefer singles. It's a difference in philosophy.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Hartline's upside isn't WR30. Therein lies the flaw in your premise.

Empirical data is not his thing. His argument completely derailed on this page.

Again, based on the consensus ADP for this year, as of September 4, (free on the footballguys website), Hartline had an ADP of 150. That is round 12-13. Through the first quarter of the season he is currently WR24 (where he finished last year), putting up weekly point totals of 26, 11, 15, 6. That is good for low end WR2 numbers. He was drafted as WR55.

But MAC 32 would rather go dumpster diving or throw a dart than take those numbers in a flex position on a bye week...

All of the guys he listed (Nuk, Flloyd, Woods, Thompkins) are currently behind Hartline in total points. Nuk and Thompkins went WAY earlier in drafts and aren't even a proper barometer for gauging his value.

This argument is over. To suggest that Hartline isn't a complete winner value pick this year is willful blindness.

This should end Mac_32's argument, but it won't.

When has my argument ever been Hartline hasn't presented value so far at his ADP?

I'm not the greatest written communicator, so my point often gets lost, but that absolutely is not the point I have been making.

I think I have a better chance at a title by swinging for home runs when it comes to bench options on my roster. You guys prefer singles. It's a difference in philosophy.

Fair enough.

I guess what many are trying to say is you could have had Hartline super cheap and still swung for the fences which would could have got you the best of both worlds. If you perfer the extra dart to hit on well of course that is your choice and it may end up well for you and no one is saying it is wrong. There are various ways to draft and think which makes fantasy fun.

The way you have been coming across though is a Hartline hater. But as outlined numberous times in the thread there is a place for Hartline and where he was drafted.

 

[MAC_32]

The way you have been coming across though is a Hartline hater.

I get that a lot. Disagreeing = hating in internet jargon.

Doesn't help that I'm an #######, but most of us are.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

You take your Hartline's. I'll take my Gordon's, Edelman's, Boldin's, Thompkins, D Jacks, Michael Floyd's, Nuk's, Robert Woods', 2012 Danario's, 2012 Cobb's, 2011 Jordy's, 2011 Cruz, etc. while understanding among the several darts I throw I am going to have some misses.

All that matters is one of them hitting.

I prefer to find my Hartline's in season if all of my darts miss or too many of my starters get hurt/suck.

Gordon ~ 6th to 7th round

Edelman ~ very late or undrafted, (only was going to hit big based on Amendola injury, and Gronk's slow healing)

Boldin ~6th to 7th round

DJacks ~ 5th to 6th round

M Floyd ~ 11th round

Nuk ~ 9th round

Robert Woods ~ very late

So checking your list of WR with upside, you would have to invest a premium for Gordon, Boldin, or DJacks. Those aren't WR4's in any format. Edelman, Floyd, Nuk, and Woods are all WR4's or WR5's. There's a good chance that all of these guys finish behind Hartline at season's end. And Hartline has no less upside on PPG basis than any of these. Last year, had a 48 point game IIRC.

 

[davearm]

Who the F is "Nuk"?

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Who the F is "Nuk"?

Deandre Hopkins

 

[davearm]

Hartline's upside isn't WR30. Therein lies the flaw in your premise.

He's in his 5th year and his best PPG ranking is his current WR25 through 4 games, so yeah, his upside is WR30...in my opinion...I'm allowed to have a different one than you. Groupthink is no way to win at anything. We'll see how the next 12 games go. I expect him to not end up any higher than the WR30something range. I expect one or more of my guys to be a top 20 play come playoffs, maybe sooner.

We'll see.

Couple points:

A) Hartline caught 74 balls on 131 targets last year, but managed only 1 TD. That's an anomaly. The league average for WRs is a TD every ~14 catches, and ~23 targets, according to data dominator. At a league-average pace, he would have had between 5 and 6 TDs, and that would have ranked him between WR19 and WR23. This year the TDs have normalized, and he's sitting at WR23. I see no reason to expect the targets and receptions to dip, so sticking in that WR20-25ish range seems pretty reasonable.

B) Hartline only takes one roster spot. You can't sit here and say, "I expect one of my 3/4/5 guys to be better than him". I'd rather have 5 flyers than one Hartline too. But I'd rather have one Hartline than one flyer. If you want to pick one guy from your list that you think will outperform Hartline, then let's hear who it is.

A - You and I aren't using the same baselines. Who's to say Hartline is league average when it comes to red zone effectiveness? Given his history of not getting in the end zone and how he is used in the offense 1 is low but I think 5-6 is his ceiling.

B - Then who do you have on your bench?

A - If you think that 5-6 TDs is within reach, then your stated upside of WR30something is clearly wrong. We can be pretty confident that if Hartline scores that many TDs, he will have the yardage to go with it to place in the WR20-25 range.

B - Not sure why it matters, but my starters are Demaryius Thomas, Cruz, and D Jackson. Hartline is the safety net/bye week guy. Harvin is my swing for the fences. Then I have one other slot that is a bit of a revolving door, where I "throw darts" as you say.

 

[MAC_32]

If you think that 5-6 TDs is within reach, then your stated upside of WR30something is clearly wrong.

In PPG? Doubt it. Feel free to run the numbers and prove me wrong though.

If it is it'd probably then be beneficial to estimate upside #'s for every other WR in the league. I'd estimate I come up with > 40 names, probably 50.

 

[MAC_32]

Re-visiting this thread. So, instead of Hartline by my dart throwing technique I ended up with Keenan Allen (all 4 leagues), Michael Floyd (two leagues), and Alshon Jeffrey (only one league). Sure, there were several misses, but that doesn't matter when all you need is one or two to hit.

Since week 4 when bye weeks began - Jeffrey 3rd, Allen 11th, Floyd 23rd, Hartline 36th.

 

[jabarony]

Re-visiting this thread. So, instead of Hartline by my dart throwing technique I ended up with Keenan Allen (all 4 leagues), Michael Floyd (two leagues), and Alshon Jeffrey (only one league). Sure, there were several misses, but that doesn't matter when all you need is one or two to hit.

Since week 4 when bye weeks began - Jeffrey 3rd, Allen 11th, Floyd 23rd, Hartline 36th.

Now that's some cherry-picking, right there.

 

[MAC_32]

Re-visiting this thread. So, instead of Hartline by my dart throwing technique I ended up with Keenan Allen (all 4 leagues), Michael Floyd (two leagues), and Alshon Jeffrey (only one league). Sure, there were several misses, but that doesn't matter when all you need is one or two to hit.

Since week 4 when bye weeks began - Jeffrey 3rd, Allen 11th, Floyd 23rd, Hartline 36th.

Now that's some cherry-picking, right there.

It isn't cherry picking. It's the product of the philosophy. You throw 15...20 darts and expect 1 or 2 to hit. Find those darts then ride them out. Come playoff time the team with those darts is in a better spot than the team relying on a guy like Hartline.

 

[davearm]

The issue is whether Hartline is better than 1 dart. We're talking about one roster spot.

 

[jabarony]

Re-visiting this thread. So, instead of Hartline by my dart throwing technique I ended up with Keenan Allen (all 4 leagues), Michael Floyd (two leagues), and Alshon Jeffrey (only one league). Sure, there were several misses, but that doesn't matter when all you need is one or two to hit.

Since week 4 when bye weeks began - Jeffrey 3rd, Allen 11th, Floyd 23rd, Hartline 36th.

Now that's some cherry-picking, right there.

It isn't cherry picking. It's the product of the philosophy. You throw 15...20 darts and expect 1 or 2 to hit. Find those darts then ride them out. Come playoff time the team with those darts is in a better spot than the team relying on a guy like Hartline.

Last 2 week rankings (playoff time):

Hartline = #5 overall WR.