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I don't want anyone on my bench unless they have the upside of a top 7 QB/TE, top 20 WR, top 15 RB, and #1 defense (in those types of leagues). Each one of my leagues is structured differently, but I treat my bench the same in all of them. Building around average players ensures your team will be at best average, you'll be at a disadvantage against the best teams in your league, ones that took more gambles.
The guy who finished last year as a WR3 and is on pace for the exact same thing this year while the teams you're playing in the playoffs have a top 10 WR as their WR3.
What I have been debating with you this whole thread is that you I didn't expect to ride Hartline the whole way. I have been telling you that Hartline is a nice guy to have as a WR3 or a great WR4 while you took your other spots and swung for the fences. I play in leagues with deep rosters (19 or 20 deep) so I like to have one guy that can get me decent points and hold the fort while I look for that Alshon Jeffery or Keenan Allen.
You could still have Jeffery and company as well as Hartline. Teams in the playoffs are there for many reasons, but it would be simple to think there is/was only one way.
I littered my benches with guys like Jeffrey, Vereen, Foles, Andre Brown, Julius Thomas, etc. throughout the season - some were drafted, others were picked up off waivers. Having Hartline on the roster takes away from one of those guys.
Wait, how do you know who I'm playing and who their WR3 is? Just to clarify, I'm not sure my oppositions WR3, Kendall Wright, is a top 10 WR.
Actually, I wasn't. I said he had a ceiling of a guy that could get to 1K yards and 5 or 6 TD's. I also said I didn't want that sort of upside on my bench. It isn't enough.
Every league is different. Sure, there could be a team that slipped into the playoffs whose roster isn't as strong or they got killed by injuries late in the year, but you're putting yourself in a spot to be taken to the cleaners by a team with a loaded roster.
I guess it's simple, then - draft all the lotto tickets you know will hit. Then, yes, there is no reason to draft a Hartline. I'm not that good, so I'll have to settle for a chump WR like Hartline, who is only #22 overall.
I hear what you are saying, MAC, and I think both sides of the argument here have valid points of view, with neither being wrong - just different strategies. However, I dont think 5 or 6 TDs is Hartline's "ceiling". I think with better OL play, and QB play, that ceiling will rise. Hartline is a very good WR. Has solid speed, great hands, runs great routes, and has great rapport with his QB.MAC_32 said:
I think he is the type that needs 90-100 receptions to have value. Miami is one of the heaviest passing offenses in the league and he's going to fall short of that mark in what his defenders are calling a good year. I don't see the TD upside even in a better environment, how's that enviornment going to change in Miami where he just signed on for 5 years anyway? He's not going to out jump you or outrun you. When he does score it is because of his routes, setting up his defender to make a mistake. The problem is that doesn't happen very often. It's always a possibility he has that odd year in which the perfect storm happens allowing him to score 7 or 8 times, it just isn't all that likely. Kevin Walter 2008 immediately comes to mind. It can happen, but what's the likelihood? 1...2%? There are many other technician WR's like Walter that don't do fall ### backwards into 8 TD's.
The starting WRs for the 4 remaining playoff teams in my main league are:MAC_32 said:
Great, that's your prerogative.MAC_32 said:
I hear you. I will point out though that he ran a much faster 40 than Keenan Allen did. He also outran Brandon Marshall in a footrace while the 2 were in Miami (granted, a big size difference). Marshall called him "White Lightning". He is Caucasian, but he is still fast.
No it's not. I'm not a Gordon owner anywhere, but that team has a huge advantage over you if their 1-2 are still intact as he was drafted to be that team's 3 or more likely 4. Plus the two I already mentioned, Jeffrey and Allen. Teams that didn't miss with their early WR's and got one or more of them late have a huge advantage over the team starting Hartline.
You don't have 15-20 darts on your roster at the same time. You rotate them, burn and churn, until you find the right one.
Couple safe guys I can comfortably start if needed, and some lottery tickets. Both are important, no?
To everyone else in this thread? Yes.
In 2012, the WR that finished WR20 in my 1/2 PPR league.....Steve Smith. Smith had 73/1174/4 for 170.5 pointsMAC_32 said:
The problem with this analysis is you started it week 1. You're not starting these guys week 1 unless you botched your draft or have a bad dynasty team. You're not starting these guys until the bye weeks and injuries start to hit or some guys you drafted early didn't pan out.
If that's the case, then let me ask you......did you pick up all three of Allen, Cruz, and Austin early on speculation, or did you pick them up after they had a really good game? If it's the latter, then how were you able to acquire all of the them? Many leagues have a waiver priority and if you don't have the priority, you won't get them. Or do you have a bidding system for free agents?
A mix of before they blew up, FAAB bidding, and waiver priority. I'm a little less aggressive with acquiring players early in my FAAB leagues because I've noticed my competition seems to spend their $ in two waves - first one is week 1 and week 2 and the second one is right before the playoffs. I usually don't win players that blow up the first couple of weeks, but I usually get the ones in October because the others are trying to be careful with their spending saving it for late and don't want to go all in with what they have left. Then they have too much at the end of the year so they're spending 30% of their budget on Kirk Cousins and 10% on the Colts defense rather than using those funds earlier in the season.
You are kind of assuming here that nobody else in your league will also go after Cotchery, so you can just have him there waiting for you as a safety net. Only way to have that safety net is to have him on your bench waiting for you to actually need him. He is on a bench in my league - has been for a while.
There's always someone like Cotchery sitting out there. I don't know when he finally got picked up in my dynasty leagues, but he was still out there will into October and I think even November. One is 34 deep + a 7 man taxi and the other is 45 deep.
With rosters that deep, it is surprising to me that there is "always" someone on the waiver wires that is capable of coming in and putting up WR1/2 numbers. Kind of defies logic. It is also surprising that you don't feel that Hartline warrants a spot on a roster with 41-45 available spots.
Given how I build my teams he doesn't really fit. Also should note it's IDP, so it's more like the 24 man roster you referenced as far as an offensive perspective. Although I usually roster closer to 30 offensive players on each team. I have some depth, but I fill the last third of my roster with kids. Guys that are more likely to amount to nothing than a future star, but have that sort of physical upside. There's obviously some risk in only carrying five legitimate starters, but that's usually what I try t do. If I build an excess then I try to work a trade.
