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WR Drake London, ATL (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Brent Sobleski@brentsobleski
One more... RE: Drake London
"I think he’s one of the best WRs I’ve ever seen. ... he runs routes like a little guy, getting in & out of his cuts. People may question his top-end & he probably won’t wow you, but his functional football speed, with his pads on, is really good."
One more... RE: Drake London
"I think he’s one of the best WRs I’ve ever seen. ... he runs routes like a little guy, getting in & out of his cuts. People may question his top-end & he probably won’t wow you, but his functional football speed, with his pads on, is really good."
Probably the right move for him, but as someone who holds him in very high regards, I hate it.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
These comps are getting ridiculous.Faust said:
TGonz was 6’5”, 240s at playing weight.
London is 6’4” 218
Totally different body type.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I could not possibly disagree more with this take.
Players are drafted. That is the system in which they participate for their very lucrative livelihood.
Participating in pre-draft fitness & skills drills either at the combine or in private workouts is how players increase (or decrease) their value to the prospective teams drafting them.
Opting out of such a drill is a terrible decision that no player should make. Especially a player who’s just missed half a season with a substantial leg injury. He was already considered sluggish compared to the other receivers atop this draft class, so there’s really no excuse to not prove he’s healthy / recovered.
My only take-away from London’s refusal to run is that he’s had a setback, or simply never fully recovered from his injury.
No team will see this as the sort of grand gesture, railing against an unfair system as you attempt to paint it. It should only be a massive red flag to any team considering him, and should absolutely take him out of 1st round consideration.
Maybe a slower Allen Lazard? London has better college tape, but Lazard was 4.55 forty and 38" vertical, and went undrafted. Neither one gets much separation, not quick or fast enough, but London is very good at contested catches. Teams must be seeing good route IQ, cause he's likely to be drafted in the first.
Chaka
Footballguy
I don't think London is making a statement. Never said he was. Said it was a good thing based on my own reasoning.
But all players, particularly the highly regarded prospects shouldn't be expected to assume additional uncompensated risk in a hiring process over which they have no control over their potential future employer.
London was a first rounder going into the off-season, what possible gain would he achieve by exposing himself to additional injury? Dropping from top 10 to top 20? Big deal. Frankly there is a strong argument that being a 1st round pick at all is a bad outcome for the player because they are subject to the 5th year option.
But even if you don't accept that (sound) logic ask David Ojabo about the risk/reward proposition of the combine & pro day. The reaction, or lack thereof, from the pro scouts after Ojabo went down says everything any future player needs to know.
In what other American industry do prospective employees not at least get the opportunity to apply to any potential employer?
As good as it is for parity, the NFL draft is starkly anti-, capitalist and, frankly, un-American. It is the embodiment of Socialist policy.
Players should tell NFL teams to watch the film.
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Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
It is the difference of 10 to 20 million dollars on the rookie contract to fall from the top 10 into the 20s
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Scouts thought Laquon Treadwell's game would translate to NFL despite the lack of speed. As a Viking fan, I am scared our unproven GM takes London at 12.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
London also played against pretty weak secondaries from what I’ve read. Not sure how Lazard’s level of competition measures up.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
every job interview ever is going to question and/or have you demonstrate a required skill set. If it’s an entry level job especially. C’mon man. Teams are gonna pony up millions for young players, they want to see how they perform. They aren’t risking anything in the underwear Olympics that they won’t be risking on the field 100-fold. This is a strange hill to die on.
A player who was hurt might need to prove he’s healthy to a prospective employer. . That is also sound logic, and should be completely obvious.
London played 7 games last season, and 3 were against good to great pass defenses.
In those 3 games, London went:
13-170-2 against Wash St
16-162-1 against Utah
15-171 against Notre Dame
The only truly bad pass defense he faced was Oregon St, in which he went 10-165.
London didn't face the very cream of the crop pass defenses, like Georgia, Washington, or Cincinnati, but he didn't beat up creampuffs either.
Lazard comps are silly, he's twice the talent Lazard ever was. I really think people are grossly overrating speed. London checks every other box, and not just checks, but excels. He wins before, during, and after the catch. He's just not likely to have 50 yard TD's unless they are jump balls. He's a future 100 catch WR. I think people saw his size and thought Mike Evans or Vincent Jackson, but that's never been his game. He's much more Brandon Marshall or Michael Thomas.
I can see an argument for the top 3 WR's in any order. I'd clarify I think those top-3 WRs are London, Wilson, and Williams. I think Wilson probably has the highest floor and lowest ceiling of the trio, and Williams likely has the lowest floor and highest ceiling. It depends on what a team wants. #1 high volume WR? London is your guy. Field flipping deep threat? Williams is for you. Big play RAC weapon? Wilson is for you.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Good post, and very thorough. The only exception is the “grossly overrating speed” comment.
Speed is in no way overrated, and a slower WR who’s not an elite route runner may struggle against NFL-caliber secondaries.
That’s a legitimate concern. Some seem to be underrating it’s importance, but that doesn’t mean it’s not important.
But the point is, he isn’t running so teams don’t really know how fast he is, or if he’s fully recovered. They just have to take his word for it, which IMO is ludicrous. The assertion by @Chaka that teams should just go watch college tape & draft (a player) in the 1st based on that seems equally so.
But as I often say, we all have our takes. That’s just one I happen to vehemently disagree with.
Perhaps I should clarify. What I mean is we know London isn't fast, I think its being overrated in the sense that its being double counted against him. He's likely a 4.6 guy, always was. Though, I was surprised by a few 40 times this year, for example, I thought Burks would be much faster, and thought Wilson would be slower.
That slower 40 time really sunk Burks for me, because speed is often how he won in college, where as it wasn't with London, so even assuming London's slower, it matters less in my opinion.
I guess my thing is I think London IS an elite route runner. Its him and Olave at the top of the class in that regard for me, which considering size, probably means its London. Its a big reason why I keep sticking to the Marshall/Thomas comps.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
ok, that’s a fair take. Appreciate the clarification.
That said, for a dude who hurt his leg so long ago to not run, thus failing to prove that he’s even at his (4.6 or whatever it is) playing speed, I don’t so much see it as a double penalty, as much as a legitimate concern that he isn’t 100%.
obviously 40-times aren’t the end-all be-all, or we’d have a long list of Raiders HOF receivers that ran a 4.3 40.
agreed. I think a lot of people are out on him now because he was being targeted for elite speed, but was considered kind of a 1-trick pony. If he can’t do that trick, that’s problematic. That said, anyone can have a bad day at the combine.
He’s good at what he does. I wish I could find the video, but an analyst did a pretty solid breakdown of London’s route running. And to be clear; he liked London more than I do, so he wasn’t lookin to fault him.
His take-away was that London has good twitch, and can run the button hook, break the route on a dime & excels at coming back & driving to the ball. But the criticism was that he isn’t great at running the sidelines and making catches in-stride. He used several examples from London’s college tape, and said he would need to prove that he could win at every level, and against man; and not just at the short & intermediate routes or against zone.
I thought it was fair, and please keep in mind that I’m not an analyst so my recitation from memory of what he said is me paraphrasing because i can’t find the video. He was more poignant, and again, is still high on London, warts and all. He just pointed out the possibility that London would have to broaden his repertoire to have success in the pro game & broaden his route repertoire.
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Chaka
Footballguy
They're risking everything at the combine. They haven't signed contracts, at best some of them have insurance policies, they're not getting paid.
No employer asks prospective employees.to risk career ending injuries before paying them.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
All employers want the skill set of the job to be demonstrated. All employers.
You’re actually saying players should all boycott the combine, despite potentially losing millions of dollars. Because they’re “risking everything”. After playing *an entire college career literally risking everything just to get to that point & have that opportunity* because they might get hurt working out for 1 day?
And moreover, that teams should be ok with this, and simply refer to the college film, even in cases like London’s where the player had a significant injury?
All due respect, but this a truly awful take. No team in their right mind is going to take a player’s word that they’re all better, no problem. “I’m even faster than before. Go check my college film! I can be 1st round pick?”
Just an absolute fantasy.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
So he’s 6’5” 210 again?
Not 6’4, as another article mentioned a few posts up?
Or 6’ 3 7/8” 118 as the combine measured?
Why can’t anyone nail down this dude’s size/weight?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
They have that original number in their database and some sights never update so all the blurbs come out with those numbers - sometimes even into the careers.
rockaction
Footballguy
Polarizing player. Interesting debate.
I would have advised him not to test, either, but I hate it as as a fan and as a dynasty guy who has to put his value somewhere within some sort of context.
If he's not running, he's been told he's a surefire first-round pick, and that comes with a lot for the player.
I would have advised him not to test, either, but I hate it as as a fan and as a dynasty guy who has to put his value somewhere within some sort of context.
If he's not running, he's been told he's a surefire first-round pick, and that comes with a lot for the player.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I mean, it sounds like you’re saying he’s more likely than not to test poorly.
So if you’re an NFL GM, do you care that he hasn’t run since his somewhat significant injury? No effect to his draft stock?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
As a Z.Wilson shareholder, I sure hope London is the real deal if he gets drafted in the 1st. At the least he’d be a big, reliable short and mid-range target, which would be helpful to the young QB’s game.
so if you're are a dinosaur GM locked into your "we always do it this way" protocols, don't draft him.
take him off your board.
don't waste any time on him
problem solved.
will only leave the message board experts to complain about it
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Weird narrative. Pretty much every NFL GM wants to see players perform prior to drafting them, especially coming off injury. That doesn’t mean they are “dinosaurs “.
I’m far more interested in the response from the person I asked the question of, thanks.
Chaka
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Najee didn't run for the same reasons and was rewarded. It's getting to be where they'll take you even if you don't test if you're that sure-fire. So I'd tell him not to run even on the chance he'd test poorly. The slim chance.
Yes, I care. That's baked into the cake. But he's still going somewhere in the first, so as an agent, you don't chance that he runs a David Bell-esque time.
Another guy who shouldn't have run, along with Kyren Williams.
If there's a chance you test outside parameters, you don't test. It's going to be that way from now on, one supposes. Look at the agility drill. They walked away from it en masse, the RBs did. Just nobody ran the three-cone test.
Chaka
Footballguy
Yup. Heck there was almost a boycott of the combine entirely over the circus like Covid protocols.
Future players, and their agents, have seen what kind of power they have if they act as a bloc. Considering there is no clear link between combine results and on field performance, if there was no NFL team would ever draft a bust and we would all win our fantasy leagues every year, I would expect more and more players to not participate in these perfunctory all-risk/limited reward exercises.
rockaction
Footballguy
Breece Hall stands to make quite a lot of money from his testing. He's also RB5 overall on Keeptradecut.com, if we're talking fantasy value.
So there's something to it having a potential payday and changing the perception of an athlete in a positive sense.
really
Breece Hall was going to make money based on his performance on the field
if an NFL front office can't figure out if a RB can run the ball from watching his entire college career,
they will be bound to draft from the infinite number of players who busted in the league, but impressed with raw testing
Chaka
Footballguy
I'm not saying NFL teams should be okay with potential employees not performing arbitrary drills.
I'm saying the future employees shouldn't give a damn what NFL teams would prefer when asking them to assume yet another risk to their livelihood after spending 2, 3, 4 years already assuming that virtually uncompensated risk.
The combine and pro days happen because they have always happened. That is a terrible reason to continue any practice. Life demands constant evaluation and reevaluation. The combine is no different.
Do you support the new NIL rules in the NCAA? Or do you hate Capitalism?
Chaka
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Pretty soon they’ll do the same with college. Just get out of HS & refuse to participate in all risk/no reward scenarios. Just tell teams to “watch the film” from their HS games.
rockaction
Footballguy
Pierre Strong and Elijah Mitchell (among others) want to remind everyone about a level playing field within which to find athletes.
