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*** The 8-8 San Francisco 49ers - Let's forget 2014 thread *** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Wingnut
- Start date
Wingnut
Footballguy
Adam Schefters tweets during draft:
Watch what SF is about to do for it's run game. Here it comes....
SF just got Denver's 4th-round pick in 2015...so WR Stevie Johnson is coming to 49ers for free.
49ers get NaVorro Bowman insurance in round 3, at 77th overall pick, with Wisconsin LB Chris Borland. 49ers acing this draft.
So like 49ers to take Clemson G Brandon Thomas, who needs time to heal from torn ACL but can be superb.
Watch what SF is about to do for it's run game. Here it comes....
SF just got Denver's 4th-round pick in 2015...so WR Stevie Johnson is coming to 49ers for free.
49ers get NaVorro Bowman insurance in round 3, at 77th overall pick, with Wisconsin LB Chris Borland. 49ers acing this draft.
So like 49ers to take Clemson G Brandon Thomas, who needs time to heal from torn ACL but can be superb.
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Mark Davis
Footballguy
I liked a couple of the picks tonight. Personally I thought Roby would be the pick at 30. If I had to guess, his off field issues scared them off after all the issues with Aldon Smith. Like everyone else, I'm a little confused what all these late round picks are for. Unless you can package for stuff next year which I just don't see getting tons of value there. I'd much rather them have traded up in round 1 with some of that ammo to go after Dennard. Maybe Ward ends up better and the better fit, but I'd feel better with Dennard and a couple fewer later picks than Ward and having picks likely to be guys who won't make the team.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Schefter is a fool for this comment...This is the equivalent of saying "the Packers drafted Zach Mettenberger as Aaron Rodgers insurance"
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Wingnut
Footballguy
How so? Rodgers didn't wreck his knee in the playoffs and have uncertainty heading into the following season.Should Bowman not be ready, Borland can fill in, and he wont need to be the QB of the defense.
I get it, you hate this draft...Most opinions I've heard have talked about other than Ward, SFs picks have been great value picks. I haven't heard/read anything that says they aren't having a good draft. That said, I don't watch college so I have no clue, I have to go by what the quote unquote experts say.
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Like you, I don't follow college football, but am feeling the same thing. Looks like they are drafting best player but also filling need. Even the reaction to Ward being a reach is calming down. Seems to have been drafted in a 5 pick range of where he was expected to go.
Surprised they took Hyde, but realistically, Frank the Tank is probably done after 2014 and Hyde and Lattimore should make an excellent RBCC moving forward.
Wingnut
Footballguy
While I really wish they would have drafted a big, physical CB or WR early, Hyde was the #1 RB on a lot of peoples draft boards, and with Gores age and Lattimores uncertainty, I understand the pick.They also drafted the concensus #1 Center in the draft (Martin).
Getting 2 of the best players at their position, as well as filling needs elsewhere, as well as adding Stevie Johnson to the mix, I'm optimistic at this point.
I'd still like to have a WR who can stretch the field. All this 'middle of the field' talk is frustrating.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
The point of the comment is that there is no such thing as insurance for Bowman. He is young and one of the best in the game, a third round pick (who may have a bright future ahead), is a substitute, but as for actually "insuring" Bowman, well that's basically impossible. If Bowman isn't ready, even if Borland plays lights out, it still wouldn't even be close. Wasn't a jab at Borland, more so the lunacy of the comment from Schefter.
BaBastage
Footballguy
I don't watch college ball either, so I don't have strong opinions about individual players.
The 49ers may be getting great value at each position, but it seems odd for a team that starts with 6 sub-100 picks to only take 5 sub-100 players without moving up at least once.
That's my only objection, and I'll freely admit it's through an incomplete perspective.
Wingnut
Footballguy
Insurance, substitute, fill-in...semantics. I knew what Schaeffer was saying.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Instead of taking a guy to compete at nickel corner, they should've picked a clear cut number 2 to go alongside Brock, I don't love anyone else back there (CB's, happy with safeties). They could've gotten Jean Baptiste in the second and instead took Hyde, Baptiste went on the next pick. They didn't address WR until the 4th... I understand we picked up Stevie for a box of popcorn, but idk if that is the end all solution. While I like Bruce Ellington, I also think that we could've addressed WR earlier.
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Wingnut
Footballguy
I dont get it either, I think everyone thought they would trade up at some point. That said, I'm holding judgement in the draft for now, as I always do. Only time will tell if its been a good or bad draft.As Tom Petty once said, the waiting is the hardest part.
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Wingnut
Footballguy
I think all of us fans would have loved to see then take Baptiste...but Gore had his worst season last year in terms of YPC, and his production tailed off later in the season. If he continues to decline, there's no guarantee Lattimore would be the answer...and only the 49ers truly know how his progress is coming along. Being a run first team, I completely get why they took Hyde. If SF can't run the ball effectively, they can't win. Call Hyde insurance for Gore. LolAs for WR, I agree Stevie isn't gonna be a savior, but he's had success against some of the best corners in the league (Sherman and Revis before his injury), so I'm gonna let that one play out. I think we all agree that we still need a deep threat WR.
I think it was a very solid draft overall. It seems clear they are hedging toward losing Iupati next year and with Aldon most likely missing time early, Bowman being out and a new center starting they made moves to put solid competition in play at all those spots.
WR and CB depth were the most pressing needs discussed going into the draft and they addressed WR IMO with the trade for Johnson and grabbing a tough, speedy slot WR in Ellington to go with Crabtree, Boldin and Patton. Thats a much better looking depth chart heading into camp than last year.
Drafting Ward was pretty savvy since he can start right away at nickel and give depth at both safety spots. I agree that I wish they made a move or two for some of the higher rated CB's but they must be confident in the squad they have. I am not sold on the current depth at the position and really hope that some of those reclamation projects work out (Cook, Wright).
In the end I think they did a great job stocking the cupboard with the bread and butter spots the team is built on. I think we all thought there would be more movement up and not back but if the draft is as deep as they say it makes sense to keep your picks and stack the roster. There could be 3 guys who start opening day (Martin, Ward, Borland) and a few others that contribute right away in Hyde and Lynch. Still need a solid outside CB and agree that a blazing fast WR would be nice but the problem was never moving the ball, it's been scoring inside the 20. Not sure a homerun guy helps with that. We need someone who has a nose for the end zone. Tired of the failed jump balls to Crabtree.
WR and CB depth were the most pressing needs discussed going into the draft and they addressed WR IMO with the trade for Johnson and grabbing a tough, speedy slot WR in Ellington to go with Crabtree, Boldin and Patton. Thats a much better looking depth chart heading into camp than last year.
Drafting Ward was pretty savvy since he can start right away at nickel and give depth at both safety spots. I agree that I wish they made a move or two for some of the higher rated CB's but they must be confident in the squad they have. I am not sold on the current depth at the position and really hope that some of those reclamation projects work out (Cook, Wright).
In the end I think they did a great job stocking the cupboard with the bread and butter spots the team is built on. I think we all thought there would be more movement up and not back but if the draft is as deep as they say it makes sense to keep your picks and stack the roster. There could be 3 guys who start opening day (Martin, Ward, Borland) and a few others that contribute right away in Hyde and Lynch. Still need a solid outside CB and agree that a blazing fast WR would be nice but the problem was never moving the ball, it's been scoring inside the 20. Not sure a homerun guy helps with that. We need someone who has a nose for the end zone. Tired of the failed jump balls to Crabtree.
There have been rumblings that they were not that sold on the top CB's in the draft. The defense is not built around CB's, it's the front 7 and the premium for DB's is put on the safety spots. I don't like the depth either but the nickel CB is a key piece for them and putting a guy in that spot who can tackle like a safety and cover like a CB is a good move when you are starting the year without your top LB and OLB.
Wingnut
Footballguy
Here it is. OP updated.
Rnd 1, pick 30 - SS Jimmy Ward, Northern Illinois
Rnd 2, pick 57 - RB Carlos Hyde, Ohio State
Rnd 3, pick 70 - C Marcus Martin, USC
Rnd 3, pick 77 - ILB Chris Borland, Wisconsin
Rnd 3, pick 100 - OT Brandon Thomas, Clemson
Rnd 4, pick 106 - WR Bruce Ellington, S Carolina
Rnd 4, pick 129 - CB Dontae Johnson, NC State
Rnd 5, pick 150 - DE Aaron Lynch, South Florida
Rnd 5, pick 170 - CB Keith Reaser, Florida Atlantic
Rnd 6, pick 180 - CB Kenneth Acker, SMU
Rnd 7, pick 243 - DE Kaleb Ramsey, Boston College
Rnd 7, pick 245 - FB Trey Millard, Oklahoma
Rnd 1, pick 30 - SS Jimmy Ward, Northern Illinois
Rnd 2, pick 57 - RB Carlos Hyde, Ohio State
Rnd 3, pick 70 - C Marcus Martin, USC
Rnd 3, pick 77 - ILB Chris Borland, Wisconsin
Rnd 3, pick 100 - OT Brandon Thomas, Clemson
Rnd 4, pick 106 - WR Bruce Ellington, S Carolina
Rnd 4, pick 129 - CB Dontae Johnson, NC State
Rnd 5, pick 150 - DE Aaron Lynch, South Florida
Rnd 5, pick 170 - CB Keith Reaser, Florida Atlantic
Rnd 6, pick 180 - CB Kenneth Acker, SMU
Rnd 7, pick 243 - DE Kaleb Ramsey, Boston College
Rnd 7, pick 245 - FB Trey Millard, Oklahoma
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Their draft is getting very positive reviews. Maybe I need to reevaluate.
Yeah, they are grading out the highest on every analysis I have seen. Seems like Baalke really nailed it. The trades down that were being criticized by some netted them some really good prospects like Ellington and Lynch. I didn't realize that Thomas was such a highly rated prospect prior to the ACL injury. One report stated he would have "easily" been a first round pick.
The more I read about Ward, the more I like the pick. Can cover and hit. Gives them options similar to when they drafted Ronnie Lott. Started as a corner and moved to safely later on. Not saying he will be a HOF player of course, but in that same mold anyway.
Add 2013 red shirts Carradine and Lattimore to this rookie class and this roster is stacked. If Kaep takes the next step in his progress, look out.
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Spin
Footballguy
Agree, the more I read about Ward, the more comparisons to Earl Thomas he gets. Watching his highlight videos, he's all over the field. Happy with the Stevie / Ellington . My brother in law is a South Carolina alum, so I watched a ton of SC games this year and Ellington can play. He was their starting PG for their basketball team as well, so he was splitting time between both sports. He's incredibly quick, but a tad small. He finished top 5 in the vert and both shuttle drills at the combine too. I was thrilled with that pick.efactor said:
The situation I'm most concerned about is Culliver. He was playing so well up until the Superbowl, and I was looking forward to see his improvements last year when he blew his ACL out. His legal troubles are very concerning, as he's now apparently being sued for threatening the 15 year old as well as using racial slurs. If he could get his act together, he'd be great on the outside.
Can't wait to see Tank this offseason. Overall, the more I read into it, the more excited I get about this draft (Then again, I seem to find myself saying that every year....) and can't wait for the offseason to really start.
Faust
MVP
It would have been more fun to discuss how Mike Evans is going to revolutionize the offense, but overall I think it looks like a good draft that will set them up for sustained success. With the notable exception of CB, they are deeper and more talented than last year's squad, on paper at least.
Spin
Footballguy
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
I'm a little concerned about DL/DE and I thought they would address this. I think Aldon takes a healthy unpaid vacation this season & Justin is no spring chicken.
These are my key concerns upfront.
RUSF18
Footballguy
McDonald, Smith, Dorsey, Williams, and Carradine - if healthy that's a much deeper group than last year. And they still have Dobbs, Jerod Eddie, Dial, and Ramsey (late round pick) competing for another spot or two. The latter group has some talent and the winner of that competition will probably be capable of being a solid rotational guy.
drummer
Footballguy
I've been on the road, so I haven't really payed much attention. But I figure it grades out like the 2012 and 2013 draft did. All we need to know is that ehomer chimed in to slobber Baalkes. That should say everything.
ETA: LOL, Baalke drafts another sub 6' WR, the only WR drafted. Just too comical.
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Did you miss the trade for Stevie Johnson? Any other WR drafted would have a tough time making the roster. And Ellington was a great pickup by them. I'm pretty happy going into the season with Crabtree, Boldin, Johnson, Patton and Elligton as the top 5. It's obviously too early to truly know but on paper it was a pretty solid draft. 2012 was not, it was awful then and worse now. I really liked last years draft and still think it will pan out well for them. Not sure how they could be compared even when grading them on paper right after each occurred.
drummer
Footballguy
I dunno, Johnson could be a solid pickup, or just another Manningham. Each season they pickup a vet WR or draft one, and the passing offense still is in the bottom third of the league. Besides that, you only really look at rounds 1-4 anyway, since at least during Baalke's tenure as GM rounds 5-7 are just fodder with only one pick in Miller having any impact, and that's due to Harbaugh's staff.SF409ers said:
The good thing is that they drafted offensive line for depth.
Faust
MVP
drummer
Footballguy
I like this year's receivers better. Still Davis and Crabtree. Moss was over the hill at that point. Boldin still has it. Manningham was never better than an average WR, then he got hurt. Steve Johnson was a borderline stud before last season, is still young and has never had a good QB.
Of course you like this years receivers better than 2012. As you pointed out, Moss was done by that time (didn't play in the NFL again) and Boldin is a far superior player at this point than Moss of 2012. Johnson is much better than Manningham and the fact that he even brought up Kyle Williams kind of says it all. Best thing to do is ignore his obvious hate (envy perhaps) of Baalke and take his posts for what they are. Dummer just can't handle anything positive said about Baalke or the direction of the team. Kind of sad and pathetic really, but the way of life on the internet for that boy...................
drummer
Footballguy
You're using hindsight with this. Before, on paper, I remember a lot of us thinking even with an older Moss that this squad could put up bigger numbers, especially with the speculation of Peyton coming to SF.
Does Stevie Johnson now have a better QB as far as a passer? Kaep is still raw and at times horrid as one. Fitz while INT prone (and that's an understatement considering last season) still was in Martz's system where he had to throw a lot early in his career, as opposed to Kaep where he doesn't have to throw as much. Fitz got 1000 yards a season from Johnson. Boldin was the only 1000 yard WR last year and that was almost by default since there was no other WR out there most of the season.
Again, whatever additions made on the roster still does not translate onto the field as a top passing offense, and there are various reasons why, but the 2012 roster again on paper is chock full of first round picks and even more so, speed. It would take a huge leap for the 49er to become a top 10 passing offense. Because they would have to leap from the bottom third of it.
drummer
Footballguy
ehomer is still reeling at the fact that he called Aldon Smith a "nice balanced young man" who wouldn't get into trouble, ever again.
BTW, the 2012 draft says
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drummer
Footballguy
BTW, Moss was considered DONE while in OAK. Guess what he did after.
Oh and: 2 starts with limited snaps in SF in 2012: 28 rec for 434 yards and 3 TDs.
Johnson last season with 12 starts: 52 for 597, 3 TDs.
yeah, I had to go as far as compare Moss to Johnson for a few here. Next thing you know, I will have to compare their respective careers. Sheesh.
Oh and: 2 starts with limited snaps in SF in 2012: 28 rec for 434 yards and 3 TDs.
Johnson last season with 12 starts: 52 for 597, 3 TDs.
yeah, I had to go as far as compare Moss to Johnson for a few here. Next thing you know, I will have to compare their respective careers. Sheesh.
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drummer
Footballguy
One more morsel as food for thought before ehomer craps the bed in here again:
The person responsible for the 2012 WR roster additions: Trent Baalke! Oh noes, I brought up Kyle Williams! Who is responsible for Williams? Trent Baalke!
At least they got to the Super Bowl, only to be the first 49er team to lose one. Still not a watershed year in the draft or FA for Trent Baalke!
The person responsible for the 2012 WR roster additions: Trent Baalke! Oh noes, I brought up Kyle Williams! Who is responsible for Williams? Trent Baalke!
At least they got to the Super Bowl, only to be the first 49er team to lose one. Still not a watershed year in the draft or FA for Trent Baalke!
Wingnut
Footballguy
lol...why not...in his defense, he wasnt 100% most of the year, and losing Gailey and Fitz hurt him, especially with a rookie QB throwing to him. The 3 previous years he had 3000+ yards and 23 total TDs. In those 3 years, Buffalos offense was ranked 28th, 14th, and 21st and Fitzpatrick passed for 3000, 3800, and 3400 yards....so Johnson does have the ability to put up numbers in an average offense if healthy. That said, he was the #1 WR in Buffalo, which he wont be in SF where theres plenty of other weapons.
I agree with drummers point that it doesnt really matter WHO they bring in at WR, the offense isnt gonna suddenly vault into the top 15 in passing. Its just not.
So drummer, what do you think about SFs first 4 picks? And they also snagged what many consider to be the best fullback in the draft in the 7th round...I wonder if that says anything about Bruce Miller's progress.
That a girl, hang your hat on the 2012 draft because that's all you got. No arguing it was a bad one, but got to let it go and move on...............ehomer is still reeling at the fact that he called Aldon Smith a "nice balanced young man" who wouldn't get into trouble, ever again.
BTW, the 2012 draft says
Way to para phase too. Pretty pathetic as usual............
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Oh please. Moss was in Oakland in 2005 and 2006 so 6 years older when he came to SF and nobody seemed interested in him after SF released him. Reason? Because he was done and disinterested. You can't seriously be trying to make the point that Moss had the kind of juice left in him in 2012 that he had in 2006, because it kind of sounds like you are.
Actually, nobody is comparing Moss to Johnson, except you of course trying to make your misguided point. Moss was an all time great at one time, but not in 2012 and you're the one who brought it up that the Niner receivers were better in 2012. You are clearly wrong and now trying to move in another direction when you realize how foolish you sound.
I actually enjoy popping on to this site occasionally and getting the pulse of Niner fans and talking a little football, but your rants are like a ####### broken record every time. Good moves are Harbaugh and Singletary. Bad moves all Baalke.
Now continue to tell us how Baalke shouldn't even have a job in football. Waiting with great anticipation..............
I agree that they are probably not going to suddenly become a top 10 or even top 15 passing team. But IMO that's not what's really needed. They need to focus on converting more FG's to TD's in the red zone. I feel like their red zone woes have been their biggest Achilles heel. And I blame much of that on Roman. Kap probably won't ever become a prolific passing QB. But he can make plays when needed and win big games. If he can improve even marginally they will continue to excel. This years WR depth will give him the best set of weapons since the 2011 run started. If they can move the needle a little on scoring more TD's in the RZ I think they will stay in the hunt with a real shot at winning one in the next few years.
drummer
Footballguy
I suppose I could post something like how the 49er have assembled the best roster in the NFL (despite numbers still showing they still aren't a passing powerhouse, going into year 4 of Baalke), but I can't on a board full of posters who outside of yourself actually have a pragmatic viewpoint with data attached to that would make that assumption laughable.
Look, I get it. You're emotional. Not very astute at talking football, much less 49er football. I posted Moss' numbers to show that even with a very limited role he still put up 434 yards on only 28 receptions. This with 2 QB's and a very shaky passing offense. Oh BTW, his only year in the offense as well. Of course these aren't HOF Moss numbers, but neither are Johnson's 2013 numbers, which he had 10 more starts than Moss did in 2012. You know what a start means in the NFL don't you? So even in a supplemental role that Moss had in 2012, he still was able to post similar numbers to a much younger WR. Now, we don't want to go further into their respective careers. That wouldn't suit your purpose. It would suit mine of course.
Funny thing is post 2009, he posted only 393 yards with each team before going to SF. So in SF, he posted better numbers as far as yards again in a very limited role. How many yards did 1st round pick AJ Jenkins post in SF?
You're just not very smart. We've been over this time and time again, and you just wind up getting too emotional over this. I can PM you a forum where again 49 fans say they have the best team in the NFL, the best roster, the best GM, the best FO, etc. That simply isn't true, but they are just as emotional as you are, and you can also date one of their Mom's.
ETA: I left out HC here, but I think Carroll trumps Harbaugh, since he won Championships on both the NCAA level as well as the NFL now.
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drummer
Footballguy
Kaep is still the starting QB for the 49ers, and unless he finally shakes off his one read WR myopia (see: Crabs), they still can post a revolving door at WR to which he might not throw to anyway. Crabs, Boldin, and Davis all had one of their best seasons with Kaep, but even so, Kaep posted games of 127, 150, 167, 113, 164, 91!, 127, 175, and 191 yards in a game yardage wise. That's not prolific, albeit the WR corp was injured.
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drummer
Footballguy
I'll go through the picks later for that novel you were waiting for, as well as recap again the past few because the 2011 draft now all of the sudden is a bust. Booze is a bad thing for this team. So is ego.
Miller is safe because he knows the offense and is a proven safety valve for Kaep.
drummer
Footballguy
When booze is your Achilles heel, it's a bad thing when they serve it at airports.That a girl, hang your hat on the 2012 draft because that's all you got. No arguing it was a bad one, but got to let it go and move on...............ehomer is still reeling at the fact that he called Aldon Smith a "nice balanced young man" who wouldn't get into trouble, ever again.
BTW, the 2012 draft says
Way to para phase too. Pretty pathetic as usual............
