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He really should have done this last offseason and employed the new motion as a senior if he wanted to maximize his chances at playing QB in the NFL.
I'd draft him, some people just get it. I'm not going to spout the cliched "he's a winner" because alot of people win through situations. He's just a smart kid who's willing to do the work to be sucessful, give me that over an athletic guy with no smarts or work ethic any day of the week.I'm sticking to my guns about the Patriots drafting him.....they are a team that gets it.I'd draft him, some people just get it. I'm not going to spout the cliched "he's a winner" because alot of people win through situations. He's just a smart kid who's willing to do the work to be sucessful, give me that over an athletic guy with no smarts or work ethic any day of the week.
Which round?I'm sticking to my guns about the Patriots drafting him.....they are a team that gets it.I'd draft him, some people just get it. I'm not going to spout the cliched "he's a winner" because alot of people win through situations. He's just a smart kid who's willing to do the work to be sucessful, give me that over an athletic guy with no smarts or work ethic any day of the week.
2.12 pick if he is there. I doubt they would take him in the 1'st, but I wouldn't be shocked if it happened.Which round?I'm sticking to my guns about the Patriots drafting him.....they are a team that gets it.I'd draft him, some people just get it. I'm not going to spout the cliched "he's a winner" because alot of people win through situations. He's just a smart kid who's willing to do the work to be sucessful, give me that over an athletic guy with no smarts or work ethic any day of the week.
Not crazy by any stretch, one mock I saw had them taking him in the 1st. (I'd be shocked if that happened)2.12 pick if he is there.Which round?I'm sticking to my guns about the Patriots drafting him.....they are a team that gets it.
Is it? I really have no idea and am legitimately curious as to whether this sort of thing will have impact on teams. I can see the side that says "this kid gets it" and is willing to do whatever it takes to succeed and I can see the side that says he should have worked on the mechanics while he still had competitive games to play and showcase these new mechanics. What will the teams think?I tend to believe one of the 32 will draft him before the third round begins, but I think they would have before this information came out. Is it possible that this attempt to change mechanics will make a team reach more for him than they would have otherwise? Possibly.JohnnyU said:
While I do think he has a good chance to turn into a decent QB at the next level, I am just shocked at the fact that he did not work on the throwing style/taking the ball from center over the past year. Guy wins the Heisman as a Jr., comes back as a Sr. - he knows what he has to work on to take it to the next level and he is unprepared to take a snap directly from the Center in the Sr. Bowl?? I just don't get it. I undertsand his school needed certain things from him etc. which did not necessarily translate into his being ready for the NFL, but at some point, the school and the player himself, have an obligation to find time to work on these things...
You do make a good point, but you seem to insinuate he needs to rush. I disagree.He started working on things immediately after his college career was over. He's listened to the critics and did not deflect his issues. It's February. He supposedly started working on this in December or so if I remember correctly. That gives him a lot of time, and if he's drafted by one of the better, smarter teams who don't listen to the draft morons then he'll probably end up having a year or two to be mentored and continue to be coached. He has the things you can't teach: arm strength, leadership, work ethic. He seems very coachable. I'd prefer him over Clausen, and I think he's right after Bradford in whom I think are the best QBs in the draft.I doubt he'll make it to the second round. I actually think the Pats would be the perfect location for him, although since I hate them since they draft smart, I hope they don't.
changing his mechanics at this stage is almost too late, imo. he'll get drafted for sure because of all the other things he brings to the table. however, he's not going to be worth much of anything for FF purposes for several years. he's going to need a few years to adjust to the pro game...JohnnyU said:
It is never to late to try and change his mechanics. Sure Tebow is undergoing a major change, but QB's are constantly working on their mechanics and making modifications and altering things all the time. They work on higher elbow, a sligthly different grip, different trunk rotation etc etc. The best QB's are always refining their mechanics. No one knows if it is to late, but how many of the top QB's in the game entered the NFL and were immediately starting off the hop anyway......Rogers? NoRivers? NoBrees? NoBrady? NoRomo? NoSchuab? NoEli? NoWarner? NoTebow has a chance and will be interesting to watch his development.
nope, none that I can think of
Can you name a single QB who TRIED to completely overhaul his mechanics?
No but I don't think that proves anything. I asked for even a single instance of success. I didn't ask for who tried and failed, but that would also be a fine list.
I'm not saying it does prove anything. I honestly don't know but I don't think there's been any. In other words, if that is indeed the case, then we're in unchartered waters. Saying no QB has ever done it and succeeded is disingenuous if no QB has ever even tried. If 20 QBs have tried and 0 succeeded, that's a lot different than 0 QBs ever trying and 0 succeeding. Not sure how you can look for a single instance of success if it's never even been tried.No but I don't think that proves anything. I asked for even a single instance of success. I didn't ask for who tried and failed, but that would also be a fine list.
No QB has ever tried to overhaul his mechanics and failedNo but I don't think that proves anything. I asked for even a single instance of success. I didn't ask for who tried and failed, but that would also be a fine list.
Seriously though. There are two guys in the league right now that everyone said would have to completely overhaul their mechanics, and didn't, and are now successful (Rivers and Young).
Tebow is not the kind of guy who's going to screw over dozens of teammates and tens of thousands of fans by wasting a year with a national championship caliber team that will likely be rebuilding the next year, by experimenting on something that benefits only him.
I'm not familiar with Young's mechanics issues. I am familiar with Rivers'. I said from the start that Rivers didn't need any overhaul, because he had a quick release, was accurate, had good velocity, made all the throws, didn't get balls batted down, etc. Some scouts agreed, some didn't. The Chargers agreed, and obviously they were right. I think it was accurate to say that his mechanics were quite different, but those different mechanics did not result in any real problems.To the best of my knowledge, that isn't the case with Tebow. I think his mechanics will result in problems. And I'm not aware of any scouts saying that he can succeed without changing them.No QB has ever tried to overhaul his mechanics and failedNo but I don't think that proves anything. I asked for even a single instance of success. I didn't ask for who tried and failed, but that would also be a fine list.
It will depend on how quickly he will be able to alter it and stay as accurate and as powerful as pre change. The only way that will happen is continued reps and even then there will be the questions of will he lose power and accuracy. I actually think he will be able to make the change and be a successful QB.
Yes, it's extremely hard. He's been doing it one way his entire life... probably tens of thousands of repetitions. And it's not just adjusting his throwing motion... it's taking snaps from under center and all of the associated footwork. So he needs to have new footwork and a new motion while being able to read defenses accurately--defenses that are an order of magnitude better than any he has ever faced--and make appropriate decisions. Oh yeah, and all of his teammates won't collectively be significantly better than all of their opponents... so his receivers will be getting less separation, windows will be closing a lot faster, etc.If it was trivial, scouts wouldn't care about it, because they would know it would be easily fixed. If that were the case, why wouldn't Tebow be a top 5 draft pick given his college success (personal and team), leadership, character, etc.
Working on his mechanics so he can get the ball out quicker and more accurately would screw over his teammates and fans?
I never suggested that, I just find it funny neither he nor someone on the staff who "cared" about his future, took the time to learn/teach him the basics for the next level...and some of this stuff is basics. I am not naive enough to think that FL would overhaul the offense into a pro-style for the benefit of one player, yet I find it funny that they would not take the time to better their "poster boy" for the NFL ranks. College is all about setting people up for the future, yet they seem to be more factory-like. Doesn't matter whether that baby rattle on the assembly line goes into a baby's hand or a stripper's tail.
Yeah, I would think completely changing the way someone throws the ball and letting them experiment with it in a situation where one mistake could cost a national championship contender their entire season would pretty accurately describe that.I mean, you're backtracking here. You implied that he should have worked on changing his throwing motion to better prepare himself for the NFL, not to make him a better quarterback in the short-term. If simply changing your throwing motion at will were something that could be done in a day, why wouldn't everyone who has an awkward motion just do it?Because in the short-term, it's highly unlikely that he would be a better player. There would be growing pains, and in college football in the SEC you don't get a chance to have growing pains because one slip up at any point during the year and you could be out of it.If it was suddenly discovered that throwing the ball side-armed was a better way to do it than throwing it overhand, do you think an NFL quarterback would make the switch to start throwing side-armed during the NFL playoffs? In college football, every game is like a playoff game. You lose and you may never get another shot.To imply that a player doesn't have a very high probability of being worse in the short-term while getting accustomed to a new throwing motion is what I find completely illogical. I thought this was as black and white as it gets.
I'm not backtracking at all. I don't think he can do it and succeed in the NFL as a starting QB, period. If I was a NFL GM, no way would I even consider drafting him to play QB. I suppose it's possible he can fill some kind of Slash/Wildcat role, but all indications are that he doesn't want to go that route.But for those who think he can do it, then he should have done it sooner. Just as it would stand to make him better in the NFL, it would also have made him a better college QB.Yeah, I would think completely changing the way someone throws the ball and letting them experiment with it in a situation where one mistake could cost a national championship contender their entire season would pretty accurately describe that.I mean, you're backtracking here. You implied that he should have worked on changing his throwing motion to better prepare himself for the NFL, not to make him a better quarterback in the short-term. If simply changing your throwing motion at will were something that could be done in a day, why wouldn't everyone who has an awkward motion just do it?Because in the short-term, it's highly unlikely that he would be a better player. There would be growing pains, and in college football in the SEC you don't get a chance to have growing pains because one slip up at any point during the year and you could be out of it.If it was suddenly discovered that throwing the ball side-armed was a better way to do it than throwing it overhand, do you think an NFL quarterback would make the switch to start throwing side-armed during the NFL playoffs? In college football, every game is like a playoff game. You lose and you may never get another shot.To imply that a player doesn't have a very high probability of being worse in the short-term while getting accustomed to a new throwing motion is what I find completely illogical. I thought this was as black and white as it gets.Exactly. This line of defense is illogical.
I thought one of the main reasons they brought in Scott Loeffler was to fix Tebow's mechanics for his final season. For some reason there wasn't any improvement.
I'm not really sure how much more plainly I can put this for you.The national championship window in college football is extremely small. UF returned all 11 defensive starters and the best QB in their (and possibly all of college football's) history last year. This year, they lose practically all of that. So really they had one shot.Tebow is one of the (if not THE) highest rated passers in the history of college football. You would have to be some kind of extreme meddler (and extremely foolish to boot) to tinker with that when if it doesn't work it means you sacrifice everything for something that, in the COLLEGE game, would be a very minor improvement if any at all.No one is saying changing any of this will make Tebow a better quarterback. People are saying it MIGHT make Tebow a better PRO quarterback. His release was not an issue in college, especially in the system Florida ran. He barely ever fumbled in college, which is the main concern with his release in the pros. It would have been a marginal improvement if any at all for him in college, at the risk of ruining everything if it didn't work out.I'm not backtracking at all. I don't think he can do it and succeed in the NFL as a starting QB, period. If I was a NFL GM, no way would I even consider drafting him to play QB. I suppose it's possible he can fill some kind of Slash/Wildcat role, but all indications are that he doesn't want to go that route.But for those who think he can do it, then he should have done it sooner. Just as it would stand to make him better in the NFL, it would also have made him a better college QB.Yeah, I would think completely changing the way someone throws the ball and letting them experiment with it in a situation where one mistake could cost a national championship contender their entire season would pretty accurately describe that.I mean, you're backtracking here. You implied that he should have worked on changing his throwing motion to better prepare himself for the NFL, not to make him a better quarterback in the short-term. If simply changing your throwing motion at will were something that could be done in a day, why wouldn't everyone who has an awkward motion just do it?Because in the short-term, it's highly unlikely that he would be a better player. There would be growing pains, and in college football in the SEC you don't get a chance to have growing pains because one slip up at any point during the year and you could be out of it.If it was suddenly discovered that throwing the ball side-armed was a better way to do it than throwing it overhand, do you think an NFL quarterback would make the switch to start throwing side-armed during the NFL playoffs? In college football, every game is like a playoff game. You lose and you may never get another shot.To imply that a player doesn't have a very high probability of being worse in the short-term while getting accustomed to a new throwing motion is what I find completely illogical. I thought this was as black and white as it gets.
Whatever. I already stated my primary point, which is that I don't think he will ever be a successful starting NFL QB.And the primary concern is not that he will fumble a lot. That is a concern, because he will stand to get hit and sacked a lot due to the slow delivery, but there are bigger issues. I would rate his problems in order of importance as follows:1. Has to learn how to take snaps from center and master all associated footwork and ability to read defenses while dropping back.2. Has to fix his delivery or it will be too slow for him to get the ball to his receivers while they are open... which will likely result in a poor completion percentage and/or poor ypa along with plenty of interceptions, due to late arriving throws.3. Has to fix his delivery to avoid excessive sacks and hits while throwing, which could result in more turnovers (both interceptions and fumbles).I'm not really sure how much more plainly I can put this for you.The national championship window in college football is extremely small. UF returned all 11 defensive starters and the best QB in their (and possibly all of college football's) history last year. This year, they lose practically all of that. So really they had one shot.Tebow is one of the (if not THE) highest rated passers in the history of college football. You would have to be some kind of extreme meddler (and extremely foolish to boot) to tinker with that when if it doesn't work it means you sacrifice everything for something that, in the COLLEGE game, would be a very minor improvement if any at all.No one is saying changing any of this will make Tebow a better quarterback. People are saying it MIGHT make Tebow a better PRO quarterback. His release was not an issue in college, especially in the system Florida ran. He barely ever fumbled in college, which is the main concern with his release in the pros. It would have been a marginal improvement if any at all for him in college, at the risk of ruining everything if it didn't work out.I'm not backtracking at all. I don't think he can do it and succeed in the NFL as a starting QB, period. If I was a NFL GM, no way would I even consider drafting him to play QB. I suppose it's possible he can fill some kind of Slash/Wildcat role, but all indications are that he doesn't want to go that route.But for those who think he can do it, then he should have done it sooner. Just as it would stand to make him better in the NFL, it would also have made him a better college QB.Yeah, I would think completely changing the way someone throws the ball and letting them experiment with it in a situation where one mistake could cost a national championship contender their entire season would pretty accurately describe that.I mean, you're backtracking here. You implied that he should have worked on changing his throwing motion to better prepare himself for the NFL, not to make him a better quarterback in the short-term. If simply changing your throwing motion at will were something that could be done in a day, why wouldn't everyone who has an awkward motion just do it?Because in the short-term, it's highly unlikely that he would be a better player. There would be growing pains, and in college football in the SEC you don't get a chance to have growing pains because one slip up at any point during the year and you could be out of it.If it was suddenly discovered that throwing the ball side-armed was a better way to do it than throwing it overhand, do you think an NFL quarterback would make the switch to start throwing side-armed during the NFL playoffs? In college football, every game is like a playoff game. You lose and you may never get another shot.To imply that a player doesn't have a very high probability of being worse in the short-term while getting accustomed to a new throwing motion is what I find completely illogical. I thought this was as black and white as it gets.
Maybe his work ethic was lacking because it is apparently easy to fix.
I have to disagree with this nicely written response. Comparing leadership in the FBS and the NFL is like comparing good leadership of a college's student council and a good leadership of a Fortune 500 company. Sure, some of the good student council leaders will make good Fortune 500 leaders but not all. Let's look at some great college QBs who played decent competition and had nice releases and good leadership:
That's an understatement.It's like a substance abuser of 20 years going through the motions in rehab because his family is demanding it. The chances of correcting the many years of doing it the wrong way in just a month or two are slim and none.If anyone takes this kid in the top 2 rounds I'll laugh.
Better not be the Packers. For Tebow's sake I hope you are wrong. I am sure there must be scenarios where that has worked but I am not thinking of any off hand. One that seems fairly similar that did not work out was Scott Frost of Nebraska. He was a great athlete in college but ran out of the option (not a good passer) so they tried to convert him to DB. Did not work out. Obviously Tebow is a significantly better passer which is why he is attempting to refine those skills (perhaps too late) now. But if a team tried to do this, I would be surprised if it worked out for him.GordonGekko said:
He will be going in the first 2 rounds so you can start laughing now. I mean P. White was the 12 pick in round 2 last year and you would have to guess that Tebow offers every bit of upside of a guy like White and then some if he does end up making the transition into the NFL.That's an understatement.It's like a substance abuser of 20 years going through the motions in rehab because his family is demanding it. The chances of correcting the many years of doing it the wrong way in just a month or two are slim and none.If anyone takes this kid in the top 2 rounds I'll laugh. :( Better not be the Packers.
-That was a massive reach for White last year. Everyone was surprised. Most draft gurus agreed it was a huge reach.-White ran the spread in college and just happened to be a fit for what Miami wanted to do. 2nd round was awfully early for a guy that sees the field only 3-5 times per game though.-White runs a 4.5 forty, Tebow a 4.8 forty.Tebow was a great college QB. He will not be even a serviceable pro QB imo.He will be going in the first 2 rounds so you can start laughing now. I mean P. White was the 12 pick in round 2 last year and you would have to guess that Tebow offers every bit of upside of a guy like White and then some if he does end up making the transition into the NFL.That's an understatement.It's like a substance abuser of 20 years going through the motions in rehab because his family is demanding it. The chances of correcting the many years of doing it the wrong way in just a month or two are slim and none.If anyone takes this kid in the top 2 rounds I'll laugh.Better not be the Packers.
