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Should Spotify Remove Joe Rogan's Podcast? (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
djmich
Footballguy
That’s it.
What I find puzzling is we have a “book banning thread” (and it’s not really banning as the books are widely available through many mediums) where people, myself included, seem to be pretty unanimous in support that it’s the wrong direction. Period. You included Massraider.
But here, there’s this soft defense of “well yah but it’s Neil Young’s right to try to get Rogan cancelled”. I don’t see that in the other thread.
Everyone knows Young has the right, but it’s interesting when the context changes of the issue…people aren’t quite as upset with the poisonous approach of individuals using their leverage to cancel content. Canceling not good…period.
I suppose there could be side benefit from publicity and such. And I'm sure he'd land somewhere else.
But I don't know any podcaster who would say being kicked off of Spotify wouldn't hurt their business/brand/revenue.
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massraider
Footballguy
Local school boards and elected officials, not the same as Neil Young.That’s it.
What I find puzzling is we have a “book banning thread” (and it’s not really banning as the books are widely available through many mediums) where people, myself included, seem to be pretty unanimous in support that it’s the wrong direction. Period. You included Massraider.
But here, there’s this soft defense of “well yah but it’s Neil Young’s right to try to get Rogan cancelled”. I don’t see that in the other thread.
Everyone knows Young has the right, but it’s interesting when the context changes of the issue…people aren’t quite as upset with the poisonous approach of individuals using their leverage to cancel content. Canceling not good…period.
It's just not. And I'm not really interested in arguing it.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
Aren't the book bannings generally being performed by public entities?That’s it.
What I find puzzling is we have a “book banning thread” (and it’s not really banning as the books are widely available through many mediums) where people, myself included, seem to be pretty unanimous in support that it’s the wrong direction. Period. You included Massraider.
But here, there’s this soft defense of “well yah but it’s Neil Young’s right to try to get Rogan cancelled”. I don’t see that in the other thread.
Everyone knows Young has the right, but it’s interesting when the context changes of the issue…people aren’t quite as upset with the poisonous approach of individuals using their leverage to cancel content. Canceling not good…period.
I understand the argument against "cancelling", but this really seems to be a two-way street in most cases. People are arguing that Neil Young should shut up and be quiet. Isn't that cancelling in the opposite direction? This really seems simple. We should support Young's right to speech. We should support Rogan's right to speech. We should support Spotify's right to speech.
HellToupee
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
He's probably the only one.
And in fact, going on Spotify exclusively might have lessened his reach.
https://www.morningbrew.com/daily/stories/2021/08/25/joe-rogan-influence-diminished-move-spotify-verge-reports
dozer
Footballguy
I'm sure that's being said but that's not what I hear most people saying. I think they are saying they don't agree with Young's opinion that he doesn't want Rogan to have free speech on Spotify.
I also think there's the audience factor. People are laughing a bit as it would be like me demanding Twitter remove Adam Schefter or I'm going to quit Twitter. I don't think Twitter would think very long about that one.
HellToupee
Footballguy
His numbers were reportedly down after making the switch. I don’t think the show would miss a beat being deplatformed from spotify
massraider
Footballguy
But I'm not trying to make the point that leaving Spotify wouldn't hurt someone's business. Rogan an outlier.
Sure. That was always the gamble for him. Take a huge chunk of money but limit yourself to other audiences.
For the bigger picture though, my point was in general, I don't think we can minimize the impact on the content creator for them to be kicked off a platform as huge as Spotify.
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
Did a little bit of a deep dive on Neil Young and Joni Mitchell. Yikes..they both have led very troubled lives. Probably should keep their own houses in order.
Young stalked an actress "Carrie Snograss" after seeing her on TV. Ended up hooking up with her and having a son who has cerebral palsey . After a couple years Young said the "family thing" did not work for him and split on his family. Leaving Carrie to raise their sick son on her own. Young paid support but as the son grew older and needed more care Carrie sued Young and won. Young still never had much to do with the son.
Mitchell had a daughter and put her up for adoption. Years later tried to connect and they did but it was hostile as the daughter never accepted Mitchell as her mom. They got into an argument and Mitchell hit her daughter and the police were called for a domestic issue. This ended the mother-daughter reunion chances. To this day they are still estranged.
Young stalked an actress "Carrie Snograss" after seeing her on TV. Ended up hooking up with her and having a son who has cerebral palsey . After a couple years Young said the "family thing" did not work for him and split on his family. Leaving Carrie to raise their sick son on her own. Young paid support but as the son grew older and needed more care Carrie sued Young and won. Young still never had much to do with the son.
Mitchell had a daughter and put her up for adoption. Years later tried to connect and they did but it was hostile as the daughter never accepted Mitchell as her mom. They got into an argument and Mitchell hit her daughter and the police were called for a domestic issue. This ended the mother-daughter reunion chances. To this day they are still estranged.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Which also means that they should be careful not to do anything that hurts the business/brand/revenue of Spotify. Capitalism is a two way street.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Does Spotify have some moral, cultural need to remove his podcast for the "greater good of society"? No, absolutely not.
If the PR backlash of having Rogan's podcast on Spotify becomes greater than the profitability, and Spotify pulls the podcast as a business move, would I be upset? No, not really.
I'm not really sure how to answer the poll, to be honest.
If the PR backlash of having Rogan's podcast on Spotify becomes greater than the profitability, and Spotify pulls the podcast as a business move, would I be upset? No, not really.
I'm not really sure how to answer the poll, to be honest.
djmich
Footballguy
Absolutely nobody is arguing that Neil Young should shut up. He can say Rogan is a lunatic all he wants.
It is possible to believer that AND simultaneously say that him and anybody else that uses their economic leverage to try to cancel the speech of others is not good. Before you go there, I’m not saying it is not legal, I’m saying it is bad for us, it is the wrong direction.
massraider
Footballguy
dkp993
Footballguy
The issue with this becomes the other platforms he used prior to get big could/would? follow suit. YouTube and the apple podcast app were essential to his growth.
Of course. Is anyone saying differently?
But that brings up a bigger point.
I totally agree they have to look after/steward the business/brand/revenue of Spotify.
But that's very different from making the most money they can.
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Hot Diggity Dog
Footballguy
Yeah God knows what drug addled conspiracy theory he subcribes to. I don't need rock stars moralizing about anything to me.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Not sure what censorship or the government have to do with anything here.
The First Amendment and lots of other laws say that a private person can say (and even do, mostly) just about anything they want to. The government can't stop him.
But other private people have the same rights as Rogan. I don't see what the issue is or why, even if you think he's abusing the public good, Young is somehow worse than Rogan (who also abuses it).
Likewise Spotify has the right to do whatever they think is best for Spotify.
No harm no foul. They're all big boys and girls and can handle this themselves.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Is it? Because as soon as Rogan costs them more than he makes them, he's gone. Not for any social justice but for cold cash.
The General
Footballguy
This is a tough one. Much like Twitter deciding that they can’t allow certain posts to be up.
Part of the JRE has always been that he doesn’t really know what he’s talking about with his many of his guests because he has such a wide variety of people and they talk for like 3 hours.
With this Covid stuff the stakes are a bit higher.than when he’s talking to a chef about sous vide deer meat.
IMO they need to flag episodes somehow. If artists want to leave, so be it. I’d prefer that it didn’t come to that.
Part of the JRE has always been that he doesn’t really know what he’s talking about with his many of his guests because he has such a wide variety of people and they talk for like 3 hours.
With this Covid stuff the stakes are a bit higher.than when he’s talking to a chef about sous vide deer meat.
IMO they need to flag episodes somehow. If artists want to leave, so be it. I’d prefer that it didn’t come to that.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
This is an excellent post, and I was going to post something along the lines of the bolded part.
I don't listen to Rogan, but as a person who lives on the planet earth in 2022, I know who Joe Rogan is and I'm vaguely familiar in a second-hand way with what the guy is about. He's an ex-MMA guy who does 3-hour interviews with kind of a random assortment of people. He more or lets let them have their say, with some respectful back-and-forth. I like long-form arguments, but I'm not in the market for podcasts in general, let alone one that runs that long. Just not my thing.
But at the same time, my understanding is that Rogan has a platform that exceeds that of anyone in legacy media. Depending on what metrics you use, my understanding is that Rogan is bigger than Tucker Carlson and Rachel Maddow. I don't know if he's bigger than the New York Times, but he's certainly bigger than any individual at the New York Times.
Legacy media types obviously hate that, and I'm sure they would enjoy seeing Rogan taken down a peg or two*. But the fact that an ex-MMA fighter can just start up a podcast and build a bigger platform than any of these over-educated professional types should really be cause for a little introspection and self-awareness. As in "How did our credibility get to the point where people are ignoring us and listening to people like Rogan instead?" But of course absolutely none of that self-reflection is taking place.
* There's a cultural thing here too. The modal member of the legacy media seems to somebody in their early- or mid-30s who grew up in a top 1% household. Mom and dad paid for an Ivy League college and a year at Columbia for J-school. They're living in NYC or DC on a salary in the $65K range, which is possible thanks to support from mom and dad. Seeing a guy like Rogan do what he's doing is probably really grating to that type of person.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Exactly. Why anyone is surprised or outraged by Rogan is baffling. This is Rogan. This is Jerry Seinfeld saying he's done with Netflix because Jesilnik is on it and he makes fun of killing babies...... like really?
But if Jerry gets a few more big names to follow him that are current stars? Jesilnik is gone.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
I did not listen to Dr. Malone`s interview so I have no idea what he said.
Science changes, new things are discovered over time, things are proven and disproven
as we have more data to access and bigger sample sizes.
If any of Malones views are proven to have some merit, then what?
Science changes, new things are discovered over time, things are proven and disproven
as we have more data to access and bigger sample sizes.
If any of Malones views are proven to have some merit, then what?
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Yes, we need to silence Joe Rogan.
I can’t even comprehend thinking that’s remotely close to something we should do. There’s s #### ton of harmful movies, songs, books we should ban while we’re at it.
And if misinformation is the bar, most of the leadership of the CDC and NIH while we’re at it.
Funny thing is the folks that want to ban Rogan or think he’s bad were probably in the “Rage Against The Machine” crowd in their 20’s
Where were all these "we need to ban misinformation" during the Trump/Russia collusion and The Dossier conspiracy that the MSM blared out to the heavens 24 hours a day, 7 days a week?
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Rich Conway
Footballguy
HellToupee
Footballguy
Di
These things take time. In 2015 Young put out an anti- gmo propaganda album. Should that piece of misinformation be removed from spotify?
Thanks. She's wildly popular. I'm sure her audience is more skewed towards women but she has a broad reach.
Her Ted Talk has over 56 million views and put her on the map. https://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_the_power_of_vulnerability?language=en
Her following is not just loyal but intense. She's the kind of person who's not just popular, but influential.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Neil quit HS while in the 10th grade at 15. So he should not be considered much of an expert on GMO. Neils education on GMO is probably the same as mine from what I have read.
The General
Footballguy
This is interesting question and I come on the side that comedians, artists should get very wide area to work in. If people don’t like it, tough ####. Don’t listen or support it. Rogam doing these interviews kind of skirts this definition for me.
Neil Young or whoever doesn’t want to be a part of this for whatever reason that is perfectly fine.
Spotify likewise determines what’s in their best interests. Them booting people shoves them somewhere else ultimately. But they’ll do what pretty much any business does in the long run.
Yes. I think it is.
I think looking after and stewarding the business/brand/revenue of Spotify or any business is very different from simply making the most money they can.
But I'm also fully open to the idea I've been doing business wrong for all this time. The CEO of Spotify is a zillion times more successful than I am by most measures.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
I think perspectives change dramatically once a business goes public.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
They don’t have to remove him either. There is a middle ground where they decide paying $100 million for the exclusive rights is no longer worth it as Rohan descends further down this path
squistion
Footballguy
Yes if following that misinformation could potentially cost some people their lives.
The General
Footballguy
Without getting it to the argument of Covid misinformation was there some specific comments made by Rogan that led to this or just a accumulation of guest or something?
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Rich Conway
Footballguy
Isn't there an argument that looking after and stewarding the brand is just taking a long run view towards making the most money one can?
djmich
Footballguy
Can we just agree to not have to change auto-correct each time and we’ll just call him Rohan for the rest of the thread.
Ethically, the left should support free speech and shove this idea of using misinformation to suppress free speech up their authoritarian butts. We all know for a fact that this is about conservative speech and the left does not give one care to misinformation being spread by the left.
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Don't know - but I just pulled up my podcast app on Apple - and searched for the Joe Rogan experience - and there it was.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
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