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RB Royce Freeman, LAR (2 Viewers)

Biabreakable said:
Maybe it was just a one time thing I don't know.

Just know it was disappointing he wasn't playing for the live game I tried to watch and the announcers said it was because of a fumble(s?). He did come in again later on in the game but only had a couple carries. The Ducks were being blown out in that game from early on, so they were in catch up mode by the time I started watching.
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I’ll be interested to see what your skill scale shows with freeman. Do you have a category for patience? When a guy actually waits for a block to set up? Or do you count that as vision? There are some runs that he shows lots of stuff. 

 
Snorkelson said:
I’ll be interested to see what your skill scale shows with freeman. Do you have a category for patience? When a guy actually waits for a block to set up? Or do you count that as vision? There are some runs that he shows lots of stuff. 
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I have thought about having a category for patience. 

Sometimes its good when the RB waits for their blocks to set up, some times its bad, depends on the blocks.

I generally would call that vision if I see him pick the right hole. Waiting for it is part of that spatial awareness type of category. Timing when to cut or when to hit the gap.

I dunno I am having fun with this. I think to do this better I should be counting the actual number of plays, so that I could actually average the players out in a fair way.

Do you think patience should be a category? There is a lot of cross over with these traits, but that is a pretty distinct one, and you can score it plus or minus, depending on if the patience led to a good result, or at least seemed like the best decision available.

I have a lot of plays where no real traits happen. Just kind of a dead play, but nothing really good or bad about it. I am mostly charting positives I see. The negatives have to be pretty bad for me to give a minus. Does happen though.

 
Biabreakable said:
I have thought about having a category for patience. 

Sometimes its good when the RB waits for their blocks to set up, some times its bad, depends on the blocks.

I generally would call that vision if I see him pick the right hole. Waiting for it is part of that spatial awareness type of category. Timing when to cut or when to hit the gap.

I dunno I am having fun with this. I think to do this better I should be counting the actual number of plays, so that I could actually average the players out in a fair way.

Do you think patience should be a category? There is a lot of cross over with these traits, but that is a pretty distinct one, and you can score it plus or minus, depending on if the patience led to a good result, or at least seemed like the best decision available.

I have a lot of plays where no real traits happen. Just kind of a dead play, but nothing really good or bad about it. I am mostly charting positives I see. The negatives have to be pretty bad for me to give a minus. Does happen though.
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There is good patience and bad patience. Getting the ball and being unable to pick out where to go so you just wait is bad vision and Bad patience. If you get to the 2nd level and slow down to let a guy get a better angle on the block that’s good patience. If you get to the hole and just run as fast as you can until you’re tackled could be bad patience. I see this a lot- teams drill it into rbs that they should get the ball and hit the hole as fast as possible and get what you can. Sometimes they outrun the block. 

Then theres wadley patience, where you dodge back and forth over and over until the guy trying to tackle you comes up with air and you run by him. 

 
Rhythmdoctor said:
Freeman runs with good-to-great power, patience and vision.  He's quick on his feet for a big guy.  He looks quicker than Fournette, maybe not as fast.  It's hard to gauge his speed but I think he's fast enough for the NFL.  

I did go back and re-watch Guice and came away a little more impressed.  Guise has impressive power for his size and he looks quick but I watched 4 game cuts and didn't really see a lot of speed or quickness.  I saw flashes but there just weren't enough of those plays.  Maybe I watched the wrong games?  I'd still rate Freeman higher based solely on the games I watched, which was 4 from each.
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Were you watching 2017?  He was hurt most of the year, watch his 2016 film instead.

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
The fact that the NFL is looking at this guy in the 4th/5th should make everyone slow their roll.  Backs that do what he's done and can play in the passing game at that size are typically valued more highly.  Something doesn't add up.
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What are you basing this on?  Has anyone from an NFL source published their draft plan?

 
BigTex said:
I like Freeman I don’t care what he does at the Combine I’ve seen enough to like him. What I really want to see is him at around 210-220 instead of 240lbs. I felt the same way about Le’Veon Bell coming out of college and he is 2 inches taller at the same weight. Bell trimmed down before the NFL draft then worked on his speed and quickness and the rest is history. I think Freeman is a different runner but could have a similar impact if he trimmed down.

Tex
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Totally agree- f he weighs in under 230 it will bode well for him. If he’s around his listed 231 I want to see a solid 40 time (under 4.6) If he comes in 240+ he’s dropping like a rock. I don’t think he’s had a history of weight issues. If he comes in heavy though that would be a signal. Lacy and Trent to me just have bad habits, and Trent didn’t ever seem to grasp the pro game mentally. They struggled to keep their weight down- so what are they eating, are they not working out like they should, etc. Just because a guy plays at 230 in college doesn’t mean he will have the same issues. 

 
NFL.com Analyst Bucky Brooks ranks Oregon RB Royce Freeman fourth in his list of the top five running backs in the 2018 draft class.

To no one's surprise Penn State RB Saquon Barkley ranks first, and he's followed by LSU's Derrius Guice and USC's Ronald Jones. Freeman at four is a bit of a surprise, but Brooks has long been high on the former Duck star. "Freeman is a bruiser with the size, speed and power to thrive in a grind-it-out system," he writes. Some teams might be concerned with his health issues, but his ability to run between the tackles and also beat defenders to the outside is sure to intrigue teams.

Source: NFL.com

Feb 9 - 7:29 PM
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Oregon RB Royce Freeman measured 5-foot-11 4/8 inches and 229 pounds at the NFL Scouting Combine.

The weight's right on the money for what we're accustomed to with Freeman, though he did check in just under his school-listed height of six feet. Additional measurements for Freeman included a hand size of 9 4/8 inches, an arm length of 32 inches and a total wingspan of 76 6/8 inches. Rotoworld's Thor Nystrom sees Freeman's combine testing as critical to his ultimate draft slot. We already know that he's a sturdy back, but his 40-yard dash time is going to be one to watch. Freeman's trying to lock in a Day 2 selection with his performance in Indianapolis.

Source: Charles Robinson on Twitter 

Feb 28 - 12:38 PM
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Snorkelson said:
I suppose part of this would be the depth of talent in this draft.
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and in addition the amount of teams that currently have a good enough RB stable where they don't need to spend a second or third round pick at the position.

 
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Oregon RB Royce Freeman ran an official 4.59 40-yard dash at the NFL Combine.

A time in the 4.6s would have been a little concerning, so it's a definitive positive that Freeman cracked the 4.5s. The big guy isn't a burner, but he can move. Freeman measured in at 5-foot-11 4/8 inches and 229 pounds in Indy. He also had a hand size of 9 4/8 inches, an arm length of 32 inches and a total wingspan of 76 6/8 inches. In his pre-Combine rankings, Rotoworld's Thor Nystrom ranked Freeman as the class' No. 6 RB. "Freeman is a big, bruising back who can do a lot of different things," he wrote. "He gets dinged for having a lot of wear on his tires and for accruing his (monstrous) stats in Oregon’s wide-open offense against thin boxes, but the skill set is extremely intriguing."

Source: Chase Goodbread on Twitter 

Mar 2 - 4:21 PM
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David Johnson is another but he's 225. That's still a big back. He'd still be under 7 if he gained 5 pounds. LT was 223 and under 7. Ricky Williams was 244 at the combine when ge ran a 7.07 but 230 and he would be under 7.

I should have said 220+ pound RB but the point still stands.  Big explosive backs are rare but tend to be good. I love picking them up. Royce Freeman will be on all my teams if I can grab him.  Give me all those big backs like that. 

 
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Milkman said:
David Johnson is another but he's 225. That's still a big back. He'd still be under 7 still if he gained 5 pounds. LT was 223 and under 7. Ricky Williams was 244 at the combine when ge ran a 7.07 but 230 and he would be under 7.

I should have said 220+ pound RB but the point still stands.  Big explosive backs are rare but tend to be good. I love picking them up. Royce Freeman will be on all my teams if I can grab him. 
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Good info.  Is there a way to find all the guys that qualify so we can see how large a list we're picking these guys out of?  Genuinely interested as it may change my views on Freeman.

 
FreeBaGeL said:
Good info.  Is there a way to find all the guys that qualify so we can see how large a list we're picking these guys out of?  Genuinely interested as it may change my views on Freeman.
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PFR has the combine data from 2000 in their database. 

I found this list by doing a search of RB over 220lbs and sorted by 3 cone times.

Notable players from this list are LeVeon Bell, David Johnson, DeShaun Foster, Doug Martin, LaDainian Tomlinson, LeGarrett Blount

I dunno it seems like having a second capital letter in your first name helps here also. There are a bunch of players here with similar metrics who were not good as well.

I still haven't watched Freeman yet, but the 3 cone time he put up at the combine does make him worth a closer look.

 
An AFC personnel director said that Oregon RB Royce Freeman "might be better than people are [giving] him credit for."

"With better blocking in front of him, I'm not so sure that he's not still that same kid we saw as a sophomore," the personnel director said. CBS Sports' Chris Trapasso has comped the 5-foot-11, 229-pounder to Bears RB Jordan Howard, while NFL Media's Lance Zierlein sees some D'Onta Foreman in his game. A Round 2 pick might be just beyond Freeman's grasp, but he's very much a candidate to be selected before Day 2 is out. Early on Day 3 if he just misses that cut.

Source: NFL.com 

Apr 6 - 7:03 PM
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Bleacher Report's Brad Gagnon believes that Oregon's Royce Freeman could become the next Alvin Kamara or Kareem Hunt.

That's awfully high praise -- and maybe asking too much -- but Freeman has the talent to certainly be a contributor to an NFL offense. "...at the combine, no potential Day 2 running back posted a better time than Oregon product Royce Freeman (6.90 seconds)," writes Gagnon. "That alone isn't enough to make Freeman a draft dark horse, but it's icing on the cake for an underrated back who rushed for 1,300-plus yards in three of his four seasons in the Pac-12. " Teams will be concerned about his injuries in his junior and senior season, but he could pay big dividends to a team that takes him in round two or three. 

Mar 19 - 7:20 PM

Source: Bleacher Report
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CBS Sports' Chris Trapasso compared RB Royce Freeman to Chicago Bears RB Jordan Howard.

Trapasso says their main similarities are being "Big, powerful, with deceptive agility." He also mentions that "both don't appear to be moving overly fast through the second level yet would-be tacklers slip off them due to the tremendous amount of momentum they create with deceptive speed at their size." Freeman (5'11/229) was one of the most productive runners in Oregon's history, rushing for 5621 yards and 60 touchdowns in his career. Similarly to Howard, he isn't as polished as a receiver and only caught 14 passes as a senior. Freeman will likely be taken in rounds 2-to-3 and can be an immediate upgrade for many teams as an early-down back. 

Apr 5 - 9:41 PM

Source: CBS Sports
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Milkman said:
David Johnson is another but he's 225. That's still a big back. He'd still be under 7 if he gained 5 pounds. LT was 223 and under 7. Ricky Williams was 244 at the combine when ge ran a 7.07 but 230 and he would be under 7.

I should have said 220+ pound RB but the point still stands.  Big explosive backs are rare but tend to be good. I love picking them up. Royce Freeman will be on all my teams if I can grab him.  Give me all those big backs like that. 
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Not sure about the numbers or if they qualify but do guys like Jeremy Hill, Trent Richardson, Eddie Lacy, Jay Ajayi make that cut off?  Only guys I could think of recently that weighed in as big backs.

 
Zyphros said:
Not sure about the numbers or if they qualify but do guys like Jeremy Hill, Trent Richardson, Eddie Lacy, Jay Ajayi make that cut off?  Only guys I could think of recently that weighed in as big backs.
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Matt Jones was one of those big guys with a great 3 cone. I think Freeman has shown a lot more in college than Jones ever did though.

 
Zyphros said:
Not sure about the numbers or if they qualify but do guys like Jeremy Hill, Trent Richardson, Eddie Lacy, Jay Ajayi make that cut off?  Only guys I could think of recently that weighed in as big backs.
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If he is strictly looking at three cone Jay Ajayi would be the only one of those guys to fit that profile. Hill and Lacy have reported three cone’s from a pro day (so not completely reliable) but neither’s was good and Richardson only ran a 40.

 
Just looked it up and apparently Josh Adams, Notre Dame had a 6.75 3 cone at 6'2" 215 for his pro day.  Both guys strike me near the same type of guy, solid but unspectacular but could be one of those underappreciated RB's in the league.  

 
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fruity pebbles said:
I’ll admit to only watching a few highlight videos of him but to my untrained eye they couldn’t be any less impressive.
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Bad place to plant your flag before we see where he lands. Great feet for a big back. If he lands right and is drafted on day 2 he could be a RB1 right out the gate. Lots of big ifs though......

 
I am with @fruity pebbles, the last week I've been watching highlights of all the rookies and Freeman just screamed "meh" to me.

Obviously a good landing spot can change things, but as a player I was unimpressed and I am not one of those guys that's only impressed by players with 4.3 speed/burst.

 
FreeBaGeL said:
I am with @fruity pebbles, the last week I've been watching highlights of all the rookies and Freeman just screamed "meh" to me.

Obviously a good landing spot can change things, but as a player I was unimpressed and I am not one of those guys that's only impressed by players with 4.3 speed/burst.
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Yeah unfortunately I’m in the same boat of “not interested” with Royce. 

Runs too high. He doesn’t show enough burst when he comes to a stop. He gets tackled high and doesn’t get enough forward falls at the end of runs. It also seems like he either misses outside lanes or doesn’t think he has the speed to get there. I only watched a few games though (Wash, Wash St(?), Stanford, one other that I forget). 

 
I still like freeman. Combine results were a plus for him, and while I agree that he has some flaws (upright running for one) I think he checks a lot of boxes as well. I love the way he sets himself up when approaching a defender, seems hits glance off him. He’s a solid 230 LBs at 5’11”, which I consider “ideal” size. He sets up his blocks well, sees the hole and gets to the 2nd level. He’s not going to be the guy ripping off 50 yd tds. For teams that need a good 2 down back I think he’s going to be a good value. Detroit, carolina, Seattle come to mind if they pass on backs early. 

 
I've watched him live a few times and have never been impressed. Not an Oregon fan, we live close to Eugene so it's easy to go games, but the UofO fans I know are high on him. I don't get it.

 
Snorkelson said:
I still like freeman. Combine results were a plus for him, and while I agree that he has some flaws (upright running for one) I think he checks a lot of boxes as well. I love the way he sets himself up when approaching a defender, seems hits glance off him. He’s a solid 230 LBs at 5’11”, which I consider “ideal” size. He sets up his blocks well, sees the hole and gets to the 2nd level. He’s not going to be the guy ripping off 50 yd tds. For teams that need a good 2 down back I think he’s going to be a good value. Detroit, carolina, Seattle come to mind if they pass on backs early. 
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I agree with you about his positives but it’s always the same thing of when he’s already moving. Once he gets on his track he’s a good runner. There’s definitely reasons to like Royce. Hence him being a guy that’s about to get drafted. 

However, I saw a few examples of him not running effectively in short yardage situations. So, to me, he’s now a back that needs a runway, isn’t an elite receiver or speed guy, has sub par pass pro and still needs to improve his short yardage work. 

That’s just what I think. I like Bo Scarbrough and think arguably the best coach in college football didn’t know how to use him properly. So how valid is my opinion?

 
Borden said:
I agree with you about his positives but it’s always the same thing of when he’s already moving. Once he gets on his track he’s a good runner. There’s definitely reasons to like Royce. Hence him being a guy that’s about to get drafted. 

However, I saw a few examples of him not running effectively in short yardage situations. So, to me, he’s now a back that needs a runway, isn’t an elite receiver or speed guy, has sub par pass pro and still needs to improve his short yardage work. 

That’s just what I think. I like Bo Scarbrough and think arguably the best coach in college football didn’t know how to use him properly. So how valid is my opinion?
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Hmm I was watching Freeman for awhile last night. I disagree about him needing a runway to get going. He shows some good vision and footwork to find the hole. He finds the right hole pretty consistently and is good at giving defenders bad angles, the first defender with the opportunity to tackle him often fails. He has patience and will press the hole to throw off the defense.

He does run too high or he would do a better job of getting yards after contact. However I have seen him do well at the goal line in the game against Wyoming I watched last night. Which game did he get stuffed in goal line or short yardage situation? He has good vision and I have seen him do well in this situation.

He rarely loses yards.

I am really not sure about his abilities as a receiver, I haven't charted any of Freemans games yet. Doing a little digging however I see that Sam Monson of PFF says"Freeman caught 80 of 89 passes thrown his way over his college career and is one of the most effective receivers in this running back class." LINK

I think your opinion is as valid as anyone else. I saw one guy comparing Freeman to Jordan Howard, something I guess both of us would likely disagree with.

 
Biabreakable said:
Hmm I was watching Freeman for awhile last night. I disagree about him needing a runway to get going. He shows some good vision and footwork to find the hole. He finds the right hole pretty consistently and is good at giving defenders bad angles, the first defender with the opportunity to tackle him often fails. He has patience and will press the hole to throw off the defense.

He does run too high or he would do a better job of getting yards after contact. However I have seen him do well at the goal line in the game against Wyoming I watched last night. Which game did he get stuffed in goal line or short yardage situation? He has good vision and I have seen him do well in this situation.

He rarely loses yards.

I am really not sure about his abilities as a receiver, I haven't charted any of Freemans games yet. Doing a little digging however I see that Sam Monson of PFF says"Freeman caught 80 of 89 passes thrown his way over his college career and is one of the most effective receivers in this running back class." LINK

I think your opinion is as valid as anyone else. I saw one guy comparing Freeman to Jordan Howard, something I guess both of us would likely disagree with.
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Wash St

Wash

Stanford

ASU

Those are the games that I watched. 

 
An AFC personnel director said that Oregon RB Royce Freeman "might be better than people are [giving] him credit for."

"With better blocking in front of him, I'm not so sure that he's not still that same kid we saw as a sophomore," the personnel director said. CBS Sports' Chris Trapasso has comped the 5-foot-11, 229-pounder to Bears RB Jordan Howard, while NFL Media's Lance Zierlein sees some D'Onta Foreman in his game. A Round 2 pick might be just beyond Freeman's grasp, but he's very much a candidate to be selected before Day 2 is out. Early on Day 3 if he just misses that cut. Apr 6 - 7:03 PM

Source: NFL.com
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Borden said:
I agree with you about his positives but it’s always the same thing of when he’s already moving. Once he gets on his track he’s a good runner. There’s definitely reasons to like Royce. Hence him being a guy that’s about to get drafted. 

However, I saw a few examples of him not running effectively in short yardage situations. So, to me, he’s now a back that needs a runway, isn’t an elite receiver or speed guy, has sub par pass pro and still needs to improve his short yardage work. 

That’s just what I think. I like Bo Scarbrough and think arguably the best coach in college football didn’t know how to use him properly. So how valid is my opinion?
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I think bo or some back that goes in the 2nd of ffl drafts will outproduce their draft slot. I like what I see of BS but he’s just such an odd body type for a rb I have a hard time putting my finger on someone similar- he’s long and lanky, kind of tall, Long arms. At the end of the 2nd if you’re not looking for a te or qb bo is a guy I might take a look at.

As far as freeman goes I’ve been on the train for a bit, not getting off now. I see a lot of similarities to leveon. While it would be foolish to think you’re going to get leveon production, I think the way he runs is similar, patient and taking good angles to make it hard to get a square hit, powers through glancing tacklers, and has good speed for a guy his size. Has a lot to prove in the pass game. Good 3 cone time (bell also crushed 3 cone). You’ve got the top 6 guys (saquon, guice, Michel, jones, Chubb, penny) then you have the Kerryon Johnson’s and ballage and the Tennessee and Miami guys, I put freeman in between. Hard to say if I’d take freeman over any in that top 6 even though I only like 4 of the 6. Perhaps move back if that were the case. 

 
Snorkelson said:
I think bo or some back that goes in the 2nd of ffl drafts will outproduce their draft slot. I like what I see of BS but he’s just such an odd body type for a rb I have a hard time putting my finger on someone similar- he’s long and lanky, kind of tall, Long arms. At the end of the 2nd if you’re not looking for a te or qb bo is a guy I might take a look at.

As far as freeman goes I’ve been on the train for a bit, not getting off now. I see a lot of similarities to leveon. While it would be foolish to think you’re going to get leveon production, I think the way he runs is similar, patient and taking good angles to make it hard to get a square hit, powers through glancing tacklers, and has good speed for a guy his size. Has a lot to prove in the pass game. Good 3 cone time (bell also crushed 3 cone). You’ve got the top 6 guys (saquon, guice, Michel, jones, Chubb, penny) then you have the Kerryon Johnson’s and ballage and the Tennessee and Miami guys, I put freeman in between. Hard to say if I’d take freeman over any in that top 6 even though I only like 4 of the 6. Perhaps move back if that were the case. 
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I really hesitate to compare anyone to Bell because his style is so unique. As is the path that got him there. One of the key factors is a team believing in him enough to encourage his running style and also adjust their blocking for him too. I was listening to an interview with either Bell or Tomlin (this is years ago now) and they (Tomlin) asked Bell to trim down and embrace his style (the way he runs now). Which is something that no other team had let him to do. Other teams were trying to coach that running style out of his game. You’ll even hear jokes about coaches being mad because Bell has “set a bad example” for younger RBs. 

Sure, Bell may have opened the door for other backs to be utilized the same way but as we’ve seen with many other things (Brees and short QBs for example) the NFL rarely actually changes their views on “ideal” traits. It seems like a minor miracle for a back to even be in position like Bell. More so when you consider the how devalued the position is and for a team to commit to their RB.

As far as rankings, we probably aren’t too far off. I like Kerryon more but the rest, I’m not too sure yet.

Freeman seems like he got a lot light boxes in the games I’ve watched him play. It’s also not like the PAC 12 is a defensive power either. Obviously some of those games were against good defences but it’s not the SEC. None of that is Royce’s fault but it does make for better tape. 

 
I own Freeman in a couple devy leagues and have probably spent more time trying to figure him out than anyone else in the class so far.  He doesn't have any elite physical traits other than size, but there aren't many ~highly regarded big backs with who are as effective as he is in the passing game that haven't been decent pros and he's got more than enough physical tools to compete in the NFL.  I've looked at him a hundred different ways trying to DQ him for some reason or another and can't do it. 

I do wish I understood why he's considered the #11 RB and a 4th round pick at NFLDS -- the recent track record of projections there is pretty good.  Overall, on the fence -- won't be targeting him in drafts unless he falls, but won't be selling him where I already own either.

ETA:  looking again just now... the guys he's probably most like are Jordan Howard, Spencer Ware and maybe Jaylen Samuels, but there are enough differences (Ware is bigger and far less NCAA accomplished; Howard was less accomplished as a receiver and more linear than Freeman -- who's more lateral; Samuels is smaller) that I wouldn't hang my hat on any of them.  Still, that general neighborhood doesn't seem to be terrible.  Or elite.

 
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Dinsy Ejotuz said:
That's what I pin my hopes on as well, but it's not clear that it's "enough" to be a functional advantage on an NFL field -- he's not in the same category as Gore or Bell, for example.
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What do you think Freeman is missing? I see size, speed, quicknessm pass catching ability, incredible production in a major conference and he dominated in college at age 18, proved he could handle a workhorse role. 

 
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