RB Pierre Strong CLE (2 Viewers)

[Anarchy99]

I don't see a great path for Strong to be fantasy relevant this season. That might change next year once White and Harris are potentially gone. As a refresher, here's how rookie RB's have fared in the BB era in NE (PPR scoring):

Year Player Points Rank
2021 Rhamondre Stevenson 116.8 47
2020 J.J. Taylor 12.4 126
2019 Jakob Johnson 1.5 139
2019 Damien Harris 1.2 142
2018 Sony Michel 141.1 34
2015 Joey Iosefa 5.1 140
2014 James White 11.1 128
2012 Brandon Bolden 42.5 78
2012 James Develin 0 159
2011 Stevan Ridley 54.4 73
2011 Shane Vereen 11.7 119
2008 BenJarvus Green-Ellis 62.3 67
2007 Justise Hairston DNP NA
2006 Laurence Maroney 157.9 27
2004 Cedric Cobbs 5 150
2002 Antwoine Womack DNP NA
2000 J.R. Redmond 91.2 41
2000 Patrick Pass 11.5 99



Maybe they release White or he starts the year on PUP and misses 6 games (either are possible). Maybe Harris or Stevenson get dinged. But so far, BB really hasn't given non-first round rookies much work. Stevenson is the lone exception, and the Pats made touches available to him by moving Michel. Maybe NE will do something similar by trading Harris (but I think that would be unlikely). We also don't know if the Pats view Strong as a candidate to fill the third down / pass catching role that White has been playing the past 6 or 7 years.
 

 

[sushinsky4tsar]

I don't see a great path for Strong to be fantasy relevant this season. That might change next year once White and Harris are potentially gone. As a refresher, here's how rookie RB's have fared in the BB era in NE (PPR scoring):

I don't disagree with any of this, but I think it's the reality of trying to hit on any 3rd round rookie RB in an underwhelming draft class.  I don't think his chances at 2022 relevance are any worse than Chandler (MIN), Ford (CLE), Kyren Williams (LAR), or Haskins (TEN).   Maybe Ingram has a better shot in Arizona, but not by much.   All of these guys are probably going to need an injury in front of them to matter for any stretch of games.   At this point I have Strong behind Spiller, Pierce, Robinson Jr., the Whites, Allgeier, and Davis-Price.   He will need to make some noise in training camp (or benefit from an injury) to change that.   

If you take Strong in the middle of the 3rd and he looks good for a couple of games due to an injury or Rhamondre in the doghouse for fumbling, that's a successful 3rd round pick.     If you're going into 2023 thinking you still might have the next James White, that's a hit even if he wasn't very useful in 2022.

I think the benefit of taking any of these guys instead of a project TE, QB, or WR, is that if they do get their chance in their rookie year and don't do anything with it, I can feel somewhat confident cutting them loose and reclaiming the roster spot without feeling like I will get burned down the road.  

 

[Anarchy99]

I don't disagree with any of this, but I think it's the reality of trying to hit on any 3rd round rookie RB in an underwhelming draft class.  I don't think his chances at 2022 relevance are any worse than Chandler (MIN), Ford (CLE), Kyren Williams (LAR), or Haskins (TEN).   Maybe Ingram has a better shot in Arizona, but not by much.   All of these guys are probably going to need an injury in front of them to matter for any stretch of games.   At this point I have Strong behind Spiller, Pierce, Robinson Jr., the Whites, Allgeier, and Davis-Price.   He will need to make some noise in training camp (or benefit from an injury) to change that.   

If you take Strong in the middle of the 3rd and he looks good for a couple of games due to an injury or Rhamondre in the doghouse for fumbling, that's a successful 3rd round pick.     If you're going into 2023 thinking you still might have the next James White, that's a hit even if he wasn't very useful in 2022.

I think the benefit of taking any of these guys instead of a project TE, QB, or WR, is that if they do get their chance in their rookie year and don't do anything with it, I can feel somewhat confident cutting them loose and reclaiming the roster spot without feeling like I will get burned down the road.  

I was mostly looking at Strong's 2022 outlook, but as I said, his situation could change a lot in 2023 and beyond. I agree that the prospects for any mid-round rookie RB is almost completely dependent on multiple backs in front of him on the depth chart getting hurt. The only thing that potentially limits his upside (vs. other rookies on other teams) is the RBBC / specialist aspect of the Patriots RB usage. It would be pretty unlike Strong would step in and get a heavy workload.

From what I have seen / observed, it may be hard for the Patriots to keep Stevenson off the field. Some folks have suggested that RS could get the passing down work if White can't go. IMO, it's too soon to tell. Sure, he sat early in the season last year for a fumble (that wasn't actually a fumble but was called that way). BB gave Stevenson the rookie treatment for other reasons as well (coming into to camp out of shape, not giving 100%, not being great on blitz pickup, etc.)

There may be some added clarity as camp progresses. That probably won't help anyone drafting in the near future, but we should have a little more intel to work with over the next few weeks as reports trickle out of camp.

 

[JohnnyU]

I don't disagree with any of this, but I think it's the reality of trying to hit on any 3rd round rookie RB in an underwhelming draft class.  I don't think his chances at 2022 relevance are any worse than Chandler (MIN), Ford (CLE), Kyren Williams (LAR), or Haskins (TEN).   Maybe Ingram has a better shot in Arizona, but not by much.   All of these guys are probably going to need an injury in front of them to matter for any stretch of games.   At this point I have Strong behind Spiller, Pierce, Robinson Jr., the Whites, Allgeier, and Davis-Price.   He will need to make some noise in training camp (or benefit from an injury) to change that.   

If you take Strong in the middle of the 3rd and he looks good for a couple of games due to an injury or Rhamondre in the doghouse for fumbling, that's a successful 3rd round pick.     If you're going into 2023 thinking you still might have the next James White, that's a hit even if he wasn't very useful in 2022.

I think the benefit of taking any of these guys instead of a project TE, QB, or WR, is that if they do get their chance in their rookie year and don't do anything with it, I can feel somewhat confident cutting them loose and reclaiming the roster spot without feeling like I will get burned down the road.  

They are all dart throws in the 3rd and 4th round of rookie drafts.

 

[Birdie048]

If you take Strong in the middle of the 3rd and he looks good for a couple of games due to an injury or Rhamondre in the doghouse for fumbling, that's a successful 3rd round pick.     If you're going into 2023 thinking you still might have the next James White, that's a hit even if he wasn't very useful in 2022.

Exactly how I see his potential value for a late 3rd pick...  until camps open and things get sorted, he is a hold to see what happens in 2023.  

Potential.  Nothing is given at this point. 

 

[Aznflyer14]

Not sure if Pierre Strong would get playing time at expense of James White (who is dealing with injury).  If anything, I think Rhamondre Stevenson is going to pick up the bulk of pass-catching role from White. 

 

[sushinsky4tsar]

In re-draft, I think the conversation ends at Stevenson and Harris for most leagues.   If you're bullish on Strong as a dynasty stash, I think you're certainly hoping that he shows enough to convince NE to move on from James White.   Hoping for that to happen before week 1 is a big ask, and I think it would say a whole lot about Strong's prospects if it went down like that.    A White trade/cut later in the season if the Pats fall out of contention might be more realistic, while White staying around until the 2023 offseason is probably even more realistic.  I think any meteoric rise in Strong's value is off the table as long as White is a Patriot.

At minimum, Strong is going to have to leave JJ Taylor in the dust.   Fair to move on in short order if that doesn't happen.    If he does that, he's going to be able to make his case for some portion of the White role in 2023, even if most of that is happening behind the scenes.   If that goes well, you would expect him to see the field a little bit by season's end.   If it goes really well, White is probably out the door.   

If White is out the door at some point in 2022, it doesn't mean Strong is immediately the new White and 2022 fantasy relevant.   I'm sure Stevenson does pick up a big chunk of White's pass catching duties.   However, the odds that Stevenson and Harris run completely clean without any nicks along the way is unlikely.   I also don't think either one is going to have impunity from fumbling the ball early just because they're no longer rookies.   Between that and Bolden no longer mixing in,  Strong should get enough opportunities in '22 that you at least have some idea of what you have.

It's definitely going to be a fight to climb the depth chart and find the field.  Ultimate ceiling is probably somewhat limited.   All and all, a prototypical mid/late 3rd round rookie dart throw.    A world definitely exists where he shows well, Stevenson takes another step, and the Patriots are emboldened not to pay Damien Harris.  In which case, you have a solid RB3, plus-RB4 for your fantasy depth chart in '23.

 

[Faust]

NFL Beat Writers @32BeatWriters

"Pierre Strong made a move up the depth chart, getting the nod over third-year pro J.J. Taylor in one red-zone 11-on-11 period. The fourth-round pick took a handoff & a toss from Hoyer & had a nice blitz pickup — a necessary skill for any young back trying to earn playing time."

https://twitter.com/32beatwriters/status/1557088417409802246?s=21

 

[Faust]

This Patriots Rookie’s Stock Rising After Delayed Start To Training Camp

 

[BradtheAg]

James White announced his retirement about 10 minutes ago.

 

[socrates]

James White announced his retirement about 10 minutes ago.

Even with James White off the roster, it remains a crowded backfield. However, if Damien Harris is indeed traded, as some have speculated, it opens things up some for Strong. He is a tremendous value in rookie drafts right now, imo.

 

[Faust]

NBC Sports Boston's Phil Perry reports fourth-round RB Pierre Strong has been the "invisible man" of Patriots camp.​

"Even as he's progressed physically and played more, he hasn't stood out," Perry observes. This would certainly explain why Ty Montgomery and Rhamondre Stevenson are generating so much pass-catching hype out of the Patriots' deep backfield. We haven't seen anything to suggest Strong is worth a PPR flier in 12-team leagues.
SOURCE: NBC Sports Boston
Aug 18, 2022, 4:29 PM ET

 

[grateful zed]

will he get touches this week?

 

[Anarchy99]

will he get touches this week?

Sure. But you’ll be able to count them on one hand. Same with Harris. I’d set the over / under for combined touches for Strong and Harris at 6.5.

 

[Faust]

Pierre Strong rushed five times for 70 yards and one touchdown in the Patriots' Week 14 win over the Cardinals, adding two catches for 20 yards.​

Strong was the second New England running back to come into the game after Rhamondre Stevenson left with an ankle injury before half, but managed to turn seven touches into 90 total yards from scrimmage. Fantasy managers in the playoffs likely won't get the chance to splurge on the explosive back with Damien Harris due back soon.
Dec 12, 2022, 11:42 PM ET

 

[grateful zed]

readded on a whim.

 

[Faust]

Patriots beat writer Evan Lazar writes, "[Pierre] Strong could complement [Rhamondre] Stevenson as the lightning to Rhamondre’s thunder” in 2023.

Lazar notes that Strong is on the “James White track” to playing time despite receiving just 17 touches as a rookie. Strong is a second-year back who boasts 4.37 speed and is as shifty as he is fast. He rushed for 4,525 yards and 40 touchdowns during his time at South Dakota State and also added 62 receptions for 567 yards and another three scores. If Strong eats into any of Stevenson’s workload, that could spell fantasy trouble for those investing early draft capital into the team’s RB1. Stevenson totaled 1,461 yards from scrimmage in his second season and saw a significant portion of his receiving work come from his 69-421-1 receiving line. We’d still expect Stevenson to handle most of the work on early downs, but his lack of efficiency as a receiver could open the door for somebody to eat into his touch share on passing downs. Strong is worth considering as a late-round stash in PPR leagues.

 

[Boone22]

Patriots beat writer Evan Lazar writes, "[Pierre] Strong could complement [Rhamondre] Stevenson as the lightning to Rhamondre’s thunder” in 2023.

Lazar notes that Strong is on the “James White track” to playing time despite receiving just 17 touches as a rookie. Strong is a second-year back who boasts 4.37 speed and is as shifty as he is fast. He rushed for 4,525 yards and 40 touchdowns during his time at South Dakota State and also added 62 receptions for 567 yards and another three scores. If Strong eats into any of Stevenson’s workload, that could spell fantasy trouble for those investing early draft capital into the team’s RB1. Stevenson totaled 1,461 yards from scrimmage in his second season and saw a significant portion of his receiving work come from his 69-421-1 receiving line. We’d still expect Stevenson to handle most of the work on early downs, but his lack of efficiency as a receiver could open the door for somebody to eat into his touch share on passing downs. Strong is worth considering as a late-round stash in PPR leagues.

When I first read this my brain got stuck. I kept thinking Pierre Thomas. And saying no way this guy is still in the league and he plays for the Saints anyway. What’s going on with NE???

 

[Faust]

ESPN’s Mike Reiss believes Pierre Strong’s breakaway ability will help him maintain a role behind Rhamondre Stevenson and Ezekiel Elliott.

Strong had been battling with Kevin Harris for No. 2 status before Zeke was brought aboard. Reiss believes he provides enough of a contract to New England’s top-two backs to still earn some change-of-pace touches. It is a nugget worth filing away in deeper leagues — it would seem Strong would be the first man up in this committee in the event of an injury — but Strong obviously is not worth a late-round flier in 12-team leagues. Strong is expected to return from the concussion protocol this week.

 

[Boston]

ESPN’s Mike Reiss believes Pierre Strong’s breakaway ability will help him maintain a role behind Rhamondre Stevenson and Ezekiel Elliott.

Strong had been battling with Kevin Harris for No. 2 status before Zeke was brought aboard. Reiss believes he provides enough of a contract to New England’s top-two backs to still earn some change-of-pace touches. It is a nugget worth filing away in deeper leagues — it would seem Strong would be the first man up in this committee in the event of an injury — but Strong obviously is not worth a late-round flier in 12-team leagues. Strong is expected to return from the concussion protocol this week.

This is not great news because IMO what you want to hear is not that he has some type of role but has that Faulk-Vereen-White role...that is the fit you want to see.

 

[Anarchy99]

ESPN’s Mike Reiss believes Pierre Strong’s breakaway ability will help him maintain a role behind Rhamondre Stevenson and Ezekiel Elliott.

Strong had been battling with Kevin Harris for No. 2 status before Zeke was brought aboard. Reiss believes he provides enough of a contract to New England’s top-two backs to still earn some change-of-pace touches. It is a nugget worth filing away in deeper leagues — it would seem Strong would be the first man up in this committee in the event of an injury — but Strong obviously is not worth a late-round flier in 12-team leagues. Strong is expected to return from the concussion protocol this week.

This is not great news because IMO what you want to hear is not that he has some type of role but has that Faulk-Vereen-White role...that is the fit you want to see.

The second paragraph is the Rotoworld commentary of the situation. We don’t really have any idea of how NE will use strong. He very well could be in the White/Vereen/Faulk role . . . we just haven’t seen it yet. Or he could be used more like Burkhead was. Unfortunately, BB isn’t going to outline his plan or discuss it before the season.

 

[Chaka]

ESPN’s Mike Reiss believes Pierre Strong’s breakaway ability will help him maintain a role behind Rhamondre Stevenson and Ezekiel Elliott.

Strong had been battling with Kevin Harris for No. 2 status before Zeke was brought aboard. Reiss believes he provides enough of a contract to New England’s top-two backs to still earn some change-of-pace touches. It is a nugget worth filing away in deeper leagues — it would seem Strong would be the first man up in this committee in the event of an injury — but Strong obviously is not worth a late-round flier in 12-team leagues. Strong is expected to return from the concussion protocol this week.

This is not great news because IMO what you want to hear is not that he has some type of role but has that Faulk-Vereen-White role...that is the fit you want to see.

The second paragraph is the Rotoworld commentary of the situation. We don’t really have any idea of how NE will use strong. He very well could be in the White/Vereen/Faulk role . . . we just haven’t seen it yet. Or he could be used more like Burkhead was. Unfortunately, BB isn’t going to outline his plan or discuss it before the season.

Does that role exist outside a McDaniels offense?

Even if it does have they ever really had a lead back who was so good in the passing game as Rhamondre is?

Isn't everyone playing behind Rhamondre & Zeke fighting for scraps?

 

[Lansdowne]

It’s going to be the top 2 RB’s the vast majority of the time, and I don’t think a 3rd RB will factor in to the offense as much as year’s past. Because those top 2 backs both have 3-down skill sets. Unless there’s an injury to RS or Zeke, I don’t see Strong doing much outside of special teams this season, or at least until he shows improvement at pass blocking in practice. That need for improvement factored in to why Belichick sought after free agents after James Robinson didn’t pan out, though I’m sure he also just wanted another veteran in the room. Strong is interesting if RS or Zeke get hurt this year, otherwise not so much.

 

[Anarchy99]

ESPN’s Mike Reiss believes Pierre Strong’s breakaway ability will help him maintain a role behind Rhamondre Stevenson and Ezekiel Elliott.

Strong had been battling with Kevin Harris for No. 2 status before Zeke was brought aboard. Reiss believes he provides enough of a contract to New England’s top-two backs to still earn some change-of-pace touches. It is a nugget worth filing away in deeper leagues — it would seem Strong would be the first man up in this committee in the event of an injury — but Strong obviously is not worth a late-round flier in 12-team leagues. Strong is expected to return from the concussion protocol this week.

This is not great news because IMO what you want to hear is not that he has some type of role but has that Faulk-Vereen-White role...that is the fit you want to see.

The second paragraph is the Rotoworld commentary of the situation. We don’t really have any idea of how NE will use strong. He very well could be in the White/Vereen/Faulk role . . . we just haven’t seen it yet. Or he could be used more like Burkhead was. Unfortunately, BB isn’t going to outline his plan or discuss it before the season.

Does that role exist outside a McDaniels offense?

Even if it does have they ever really had a lead back who was so good in the passing game as Rhamondre is?

Isn't everyone playing behind Rhamondre & Zeke fighting for scraps?

The season that was atypical was last year with Patricia. That was the only one where they didn’t have a designated third down back. Based on BB’s comments, the two rookie backs struggled with blitz pickup.

They have allocated touches to other backs all the time. Again, last year was an outlier. Maybe they will alter their RB plan and rotation that they have used for years, who knows. But almost every team has additional backs that get touches.

 

[Anarchy99]

Strong has speed that RS and EE don’t. If there are ways to get him the ball in space, they have every reason to figure out how to use him, whether that be on sweeps, screens, draws, slants, wheel routes, etc.

 

[Chaka]

ESPN’s Mike Reiss believes Pierre Strong’s breakaway ability will help him maintain a role behind Rhamondre Stevenson and Ezekiel Elliott.

Strong had been battling with Kevin Harris for No. 2 status before Zeke was brought aboard. Reiss believes he provides enough of a contract to New England’s top-two backs to still earn some change-of-pace touches. It is a nugget worth filing away in deeper leagues — it would seem Strong would be the first man up in this committee in the event of an injury — but Strong obviously is not worth a late-round flier in 12-team leagues. Strong is expected to return from the concussion protocol this week.

This is not great news because IMO what you want to hear is not that he has some type of role but has that Faulk-Vereen-White role...that is the fit you want to see.

The second paragraph is the Rotoworld commentary of the situation. We don’t really have any idea of how NE will use strong. He very well could be in the White/Vereen/Faulk role . . . we just haven’t seen it yet. Or he could be used more like Burkhead was. Unfortunately, BB isn’t going to outline his plan or discuss it before the season.

Does that role exist outside a McDaniels offense?

Even if it does have they ever really had a lead back who was so good in the passing game as Rhamondre is?

Isn't everyone playing behind Rhamondre & Zeke fighting for scraps?

The season that was atypical was last year with Patricia. That was the only one where they didn’t have a designated third down back. Based on BB’s comments, the two rookie backs struggled with blitz pickup.

They have allocated touches to other backs all the time. Again, last year was an outlier. Maybe they will alter their RB plan and rotation that they have used for years, who knows. But almost every team has additional backs that get touches.

I know they historically have a 3rd down back. Where I have difficulty is a scenario where Rhamondre doesn't lead the RB corps in targets.

In O'Brien's one season as OC in New England, Danny Woodhead led the team in targets with 31.

In his time in Houston they really used a 3rd down back, maybe once with Duke Johnson in 2019. And it can be argued that was only because the lead back was Carlos Hyde. 62 targets was the high water mark for RB targets in O'Brien's tenure anywhere, typically it's in the 30s.

You, and Boston, obviously have worlds more knowledge about the Pats than I do, but I'm expecting a heavy dose of Rhamondre & Zeke and everyone else is fighting for scraps.

 

[Boston]

ESPN’s Mike Reiss believes Pierre Strong’s breakaway ability will help him maintain a role behind Rhamondre Stevenson and Ezekiel Elliott.

Strong had been battling with Kevin Harris for No. 2 status before Zeke was brought aboard. Reiss believes he provides enough of a contract to New England’s top-two backs to still earn some change-of-pace touches. It is a nugget worth filing away in deeper leagues — it would seem Strong would be the first man up in this committee in the event of an injury — but Strong obviously is not worth a late-round flier in 12-team leagues. Strong is expected to return from the concussion protocol this week.

This is not great news because IMO what you want to hear is not that he has some type of role but has that Faulk-Vereen-White role...that is the fit you want to see.

The second paragraph is the Rotoworld commentary of the situation. We don’t really have any idea of how NE will use strong. He very well could be in the White/Vereen/Faulk role . . . we just haven’t seen it yet. Or he could be used more like Burkhead was. Unfortunately, BB isn’t going to outline his plan or discuss it before the season.

Does that role exist outside a McDaniels offense?

Even if it does have they ever really had a lead back who was so good in the passing game as Rhamondre is?

Isn't everyone playing behind Rhamondre & Zeke fighting for scraps?

The season that was atypical was last year with Patricia. That was the only one where they didn’t have a designated third down back. Based on BB’s comments, the two rookie backs struggled with blitz pickup.

They have allocated touches to other backs all the time. Again, last year was an outlier. Maybe they will alter their RB plan and rotation that they have used for years, who knows. But almost every team has additional backs that get touches.

I know they historically have a 3rd down back. Where I have difficulty is a scenario where Rhamondre doesn't lead the RB corps in targets.

In O'Brien's one season as OC in New England, Danny Woodhead led the team in targets with 31.

In his time in Houston they really used a 3rd down back, maybe once with Duke Johnson in 2019. And it can be argued that was only because the lead back was Carlos Hyde. 62 targets was the high water mark for RB targets in O'Brien's tenure anywhere, typically it's in the 30s.

You, and Boston, obviously have worlds more knowledge about the Pats than I do, but I'm expecting a heavy dose of Rhamondre & Zeke and everyone else is fighting for scraps.

I don't disagree with you about Stevenson and Zeke...I think they would love to have Strong turn into that James White type of RB but right now that is very iffy...as Landsdowne points out it is not as important this year as it may have been in the past with RBs like BJGE, Blount, Ridley and Michel because both Stevenson and Zeke are very good in that area while many past RBs were not.

 

[FFWhiskey]

He's one of my DEEP sleepers. I think he has a significant pass catching role, ie James White and Shane Derren. You guys remember Shane Vereen?


I think his role is pretty safe. He was never going to be a 1st, 2nd down, or goal line RB.


He ran a 4.37 forty which is very fast for a RB. Year 2 in the system, I think he surprises a lot of people this season. New England has a history of finding diamonds in the rough at RB that fit their scheme and my money says Bill has done it again.



Great PPR depth piece. Non PPR and I have zero interest.

 

[Chaka]

ESPN’s Mike Reiss believes Pierre Strong’s breakaway ability will help him maintain a role behind Rhamondre Stevenson and Ezekiel Elliott.

Strong had been battling with Kevin Harris for No. 2 status before Zeke was brought aboard. Reiss believes he provides enough of a contract to New England’s top-two backs to still earn some change-of-pace touches. It is a nugget worth filing away in deeper leagues — it would seem Strong would be the first man up in this committee in the event of an injury — but Strong obviously is not worth a late-round flier in 12-team leagues. Strong is expected to return from the concussion protocol this week.

This is not great news because IMO what you want to hear is not that he has some type of role but has that Faulk-Vereen-White role...that is the fit you want to see.

The second paragraph is the Rotoworld commentary of the situation. We don’t really have any idea of how NE will use strong. He very well could be in the White/Vereen/Faulk role . . . we just haven’t seen it yet. Or he could be used more like Burkhead was. Unfortunately, BB isn’t going to outline his plan or discuss it before the season.

Does that role exist outside a McDaniels offense?

Even if it does have they ever really had a lead back who was so good in the passing game as Rhamondre is?

Isn't everyone playing behind Rhamondre & Zeke fighting for scraps?

The season that was atypical was last year with Patricia. That was the only one where they didn’t have a designated third down back. Based on BB’s comments, the two rookie backs struggled with blitz pickup.

They have allocated touches to other backs all the time. Again, last year was an outlier. Maybe they will alter their RB plan and rotation that they have used for years, who knows. But almost every team has additional backs that get touches.

I know they historically have a 3rd down back. Where I have difficulty is a scenario where Rhamondre doesn't lead the RB corps in targets.

In O'Brien's one season as OC in New England, Danny Woodhead led the team in targets with 31.

In his time in Houston they really used a 3rd down back, maybe once with Duke Johnson in 2019. And it can be argued that was only because the lead back was Carlos Hyde. 62 targets was the high water mark for RB targets in O'Brien's tenure anywhere, typically it's in the 30s.

You, and Boston, obviously have worlds more knowledge about the Pats than I do, but I'm expecting a heavy dose of Rhamondre & Zeke and everyone else is fighting for scraps.

I don't disagree with you about Stevenson and Zeke...I think they would love to have Strong turn into that James White type of RB but right now that is very iffy...as Landsdowne points out it is not as important this year as it may have been in the past with RBs like BJGE, Blount, Ridley and Michel because both Stevenson and Zeke are very good in that area while many past RBs were not.

It also feels like they would be wasting Rhamondre's talent as a receiver just to manufacture touches for a, possibly, lesser player like Strong.

It's a lot easier to have dedicated James White/LeGarrett Blount types in highly specific roles when TB12 is under center. With Mac Jones I think you need to disguise formations more and Rhamondre seems to be ideally suited for that role.

Even with the Zeke signing I would be happy to land Rhamondre as my RB1 when I draft on the 2nd.

 

[Boston]

ESPN’s Mike Reiss believes Pierre Strong’s breakaway ability will help him maintain a role behind Rhamondre Stevenson and Ezekiel Elliott.

Strong had been battling with Kevin Harris for No. 2 status before Zeke was brought aboard. Reiss believes he provides enough of a contract to New England’s top-two backs to still earn some change-of-pace touches. It is a nugget worth filing away in deeper leagues — it would seem Strong would be the first man up in this committee in the event of an injury — but Strong obviously is not worth a late-round flier in 12-team leagues. Strong is expected to return from the concussion protocol this week.

This is not great news because IMO what you want to hear is not that he has some type of role but has that Faulk-Vereen-White role...that is the fit you want to see.

The second paragraph is the Rotoworld commentary of the situation. We don’t really have any idea of how NE will use strong. He very well could be in the White/Vereen/Faulk role . . . we just haven’t seen it yet. Or he could be used more like Burkhead was. Unfortunately, BB isn’t going to outline his plan or discuss it before the season.

Does that role exist outside a McDaniels offense?

Even if it does have they ever really had a lead back who was so good in the passing game as Rhamondre is?

Isn't everyone playing behind Rhamondre & Zeke fighting for scraps?

The season that was atypical was last year with Patricia. That was the only one where they didn’t have a designated third down back. Based on BB’s comments, the two rookie backs struggled with blitz pickup.

They have allocated touches to other backs all the time. Again, last year was an outlier. Maybe they will alter their RB plan and rotation that they have used for years, who knows. But almost every team has additional backs that get touches.

I know they historically have a 3rd down back. Where I have difficulty is a scenario where Rhamondre doesn't lead the RB corps in targets.

In O'Brien's one season as OC in New England, Danny Woodhead led the team in targets with 31.

In his time in Houston they really used a 3rd down back, maybe once with Duke Johnson in 2019. And it can be argued that was only because the lead back was Carlos Hyde. 62 targets was the high water mark for RB targets in O'Brien's tenure anywhere, typically it's in the 30s.

You, and Boston, obviously have worlds more knowledge about the Pats than I do, but I'm expecting a heavy dose of Rhamondre & Zeke and everyone else is fighting for scraps.

I don't disagree with you about Stevenson and Zeke...I think they would love to have Strong turn into that James White type of RB but right now that is very iffy...as Landsdowne points out it is not as important this year as it may have been in the past with RBs like BJGE, Blount, Ridley and Michel because both Stevenson and Zeke are very good in that area while many past RBs were not.

It also feels like they would be wasting Rhamondre's talent as a receiver just to manufacture touches for a, possibly, lesser player.

It's a lot easier to have dedicated James White/LeGarrett Blount types in highly specific roles when TB12 is under center. With Mac Jones I think you need to disguise formations more and Rhamondre seems to be ideally suited for that role.

Even with the Zeke signing I would be happy to land Rhamondre as my RB1 when I draft on the 2nd.

It really comes down to one simple thing with Strong...is he good? If he is he would give this offense something it badly needs...speed and big play ability...that would be a fantastic compliment to what Stevenson and Zeke bring to the table...reporting on Strong has been a little odd this offseason...it stays kind of vanilla...you really don't hear anything good or bad but I definitely don't hear/see any of the locals banging the drum too loud for him right now.

 

[rockaction]

but I definitely don't hear/see any of the locals banging the drum too loud for him right now.

My theory, and it's only mine, is that despite all the laurels that writers want to throw or not throw at running backs' feet, they truly can't know how effective a back will be until it's game on. I don't think the coaches even know. That's why they reserve judgment on running backs (other than being able to catch the ball, which you can figure out without pads) until the preseason and season. It's why guys take a bit to carve out roles and win jobs. The coaches making the decision can't tell yet.

 

[Anarchy99]

There hasn’t been much talk about Strong because of how they have been practicing. When camp started, they spent day after day only running plays in the red zone from the 10-yard line without any running plays. When they finally moved to between the 20’s type stuff, they weren’t using RS at all and the OL was (and still is) a mess. They weren’t really running the ball much then either. At one point I remember Strong scored twice on passes in practice, but then he got hurt. I thought they said last night he was in the concussion protocol. He caught three passes in the first preseason game. Since they haven’t really been working the RB’s in practice, what is there to report about them? BB said a few weeks ago that Harris and Strong were much more prepared and doing a lot better this year vs. last. Fans and the media assume that the team has negative feelings about them but who really knows? The team apparently felt they wanted a veteran and they signed Zeke. We all can guess that they don’t love Harris (Elliott would be more suited to be an upgrade over Harris), but Strong is still a bit of a mystery.

 

[Houston turmOiler]

Traded to Cleveland

 

[barackdhouse]

Ok this catches my attention. Had been wondering what the latest on Ford was.

 

[Houston turmOiler]

Ok this catches my attention. Had been wondering what the latest on Ford was.

Yeah I had drafted Ford as a handcuff to Chubb, but this muddies the waters a bit in regard to clarity for the number 2 role. Ford's had a hamstring issue for a while now and still hasn't returned.

 

[barackdhouse]

Ok this catches my attention. Had been wondering what the latest on Ford was.

Yeah I had drafted Ford as a handcuff to Chubb, but this muddies the waters a bit in regard to clarity for the number 2 role. Ford's had a hamstring issue for a while now and still hasn't returned.

Yeah I assume Strong takes the #2.

 

[FFWhiskey]

I'm not biting. If New England doesn't want you and prefers Ezekiel Elliot and his contract over you, then you don't have "it".


I'm supposed to believe this guy is going to come into Cleveland 2 weeks before the season and be relevant? Dropped this cat in dynasty a few weeks ago after seeing Elliot having a role in the passing game.



3rd string RB in Cleveland. Miss me on that.

 

[Boston]

Ok this catches my attention. Had been wondering what the latest on Ford was.

Yeah I had drafted Ford as a handcuff to Chubb, but this muddies the waters a bit in regard to clarity for the number 2 role. Ford's had a hamstring issue for a while now and still hasn't returned.

Yeah I assume Strong takes the #2.

I would say it's more he gets the opportunity because there are serious questions if he is any good...I did not hear much positive about him this pre-season and he could not have had a better opportunity...the pathway to relevancy for him was an easy one and the team would be far better off if he seized it...the fact they are giving up on him this quickly when they have limited depth at the position is not a good sign for him...on another note I'm sure a practice squad tackle from the Browns will solve the Pats issues at that position...tough for me to dislike the roster construction of this offense more.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Ok this catches my attention. Had been wondering what the latest on Ford was.

More than likely the injury to KR Grant is the reason why the Browns made the trade.
Jakeem Grant injury Browns returner put in air cast on first play

 

[Houston turmOiler]

I'm not biting. If New England doesn't want you and prefers Ezekiel Elliot and his contract over you, then you don't have "it".


I'm supposed to believe this guy is going to come into Cleveland 2 weeks before the season and be relevant? Dropped this cat in dynasty a few weeks ago after seeing Elliot having a role in the passing game.



3rd string RB in Cleveland. Miss me on that.

Could very well be right, if Ford were healthy. But I'm wondering what this move says about Ford's injury. Or if it means anything at all. Maybe Strong is just a player they've liked and saw an opportunity to acquire him cheaply, and Ford will be the handcuff as soon as he's back. I'm not so sure now.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Ok this catches my attention. Had been wondering what the latest on Ford was.

Yeah I had drafted Ford as a handcuff to Chubb, but this muddies the waters a bit in regard to clarity for the number 2 role. Ford's had a hamstring issue for a while now and still hasn't returned.

Yeah I assume Strong takes the #2.

I would say it's more he gets the opportunity because there are serious questions if he is any good...I did not hear much positive about him this pre-season and he could not have had a better opportunity...the pathway to relevancy for him was an easy one and the team would be far better off if he seized it...the fact they are giving up on him this quickly when they have limited depth at the position is not a good sign for him...on another note I'm sure a practice squad tackle from the Browns will solve the Pats issues at that position...tough for me to dislike the roster construction of this offense more.

It’s almost like Belichick is thinking he’ll zag while the rest of the NFL zigs towards explosive playmakers. Jettison Strong while bringing in Zeke, adding the lumbering JJSH and teaming him with Parker and Bourne?

Belichick is seeming to not go out so gracefully almost sneering at the new ways of the NFL. I mean I get the personnel dictates a ball control offense- but he’s put that personnel together.

 

[Anarchy99]

Ok this catches my attention. Had been wondering what the latest on Ford was.

Yeah I had drafted Ford as a handcuff to Chubb, but this muddies the waters a bit in regard to clarity for the number 2 role. Ford's had a hamstring issue for a while now and still hasn't returned.

Yeah I assume Strong takes the #2.

I would say it's more he gets the opportunity because there are serious questions if he is any good...I did not hear much positive about him this pre-season and he could not have had a better opportunity...the pathway to relevancy for him was an easy one and the team would be far better off if he seized it...the fact they are giving up on him this quickly when they have limited depth at the position is not a good sign for him...on another note I'm sure a practice squad tackle from the Browns will solve the Pats issues at that position...tough for me to dislike the roster construction of this offense more.

It’s almost like Belichick is thinking he’ll zag while the rest of the NFL zigs towards explosive playmakers. Jettison Strong while bringing in Zeke, adding the lumbering JJSH and teaming him with Parker and Bourne?

Belichick is seeming to not go out so gracefully almost sneering at the new ways of the NFL. I mean I get the personnel dictates a ball control offense- but he’s put that personnel together.

BB essentially came out and said Strong had issues with pass protection a few weeks ago. Sure, he's fast, but he didn't show much. The other speed guy they drafted last year (Thornton) hasn't done much either (and is usually hurt). At this point, BB would rather have guys that take the field and can do something (even if they aren't fast and quick).

 

[Boston]

Ok this catches my attention. Had been wondering what the latest on Ford was.

Yeah I had drafted Ford as a handcuff to Chubb, but this muddies the waters a bit in regard to clarity for the number 2 role. Ford's had a hamstring issue for a while now and still hasn't returned.

Yeah I assume Strong takes the #2.

I would say it's more he gets the opportunity because there are serious questions if he is any good...I did not hear much positive about him this pre-season and he could not have had a better opportunity...the pathway to relevancy for him was an easy one and the team would be far better off if he seized it...the fact they are giving up on him this quickly when they have limited depth at the position is not a good sign for him...on another note I'm sure a practice squad tackle from the Browns will solve the Pats issues at that position...tough for me to dislike the roster construction of this offense more.

It’s almost like Belichick is thinking he’ll zag while the rest of the NFL zigs towards explosive playmakers. Jettison Strong while bringing in Zeke, adding the lumbering JJSH and teaming him with Parker and Bourne?

Belichick is seeming to not go out so gracefully almost sneering at the new ways of the NFL. I mean I get the personnel dictates a ball control offense- but he’s put that personnel together.

He is turning into a stubborn old man.

 

[Boston]

Ok this catches my attention. Had been wondering what the latest on Ford was.

Yeah I had drafted Ford as a handcuff to Chubb, but this muddies the waters a bit in regard to clarity for the number 2 role. Ford's had a hamstring issue for a while now and still hasn't returned.

Yeah I assume Strong takes the #2.

I would say it's more he gets the opportunity because there are serious questions if he is any good...I did not hear much positive about him this pre-season and he could not have had a better opportunity...the pathway to relevancy for him was an easy one and the team would be far better off if he seized it...the fact they are giving up on him this quickly when they have limited depth at the position is not a good sign for him...on another note I'm sure a practice squad tackle from the Browns will solve the Pats issues at that position...tough for me to dislike the roster construction of this offense more.

It’s almost like Belichick is thinking he’ll zag while the rest of the NFL zigs towards explosive playmakers. Jettison Strong while bringing in Zeke, adding the lumbering JJSH and teaming him with Parker and Bourne?

Belichick is seeming to not go out so gracefully almost sneering at the new ways of the NFL. I mean I get the personnel dictates a ball control offense- but he’s put that personnel together.

BB essentially came out and said Strong had issues with pass protection a few weeks ago. Sure, he's fast, but he didn't show much. The other speed guy they drafted last year (Thornton) hasn't done much either (and is usually hurt). At this point, BB would rather have guys that take the field and can do something (even if they aren't fast and quick).

If that is an issue it probably would have made sense to do something during the draft or free agency instead of in August.

 

[FFWhiskey]

Ok this catches my attention. Had been wondering what the latest on Ford was.

Yeah I had drafted Ford as a handcuff to Chubb, but this muddies the waters a bit in regard to clarity for the number 2 role. Ford's had a hamstring issue for a while now and still hasn't returned.

Yeah I assume Strong takes the #2.

I would say it's more he gets the opportunity because there are serious questions if he is any good...I did not hear much positive about him this pre-season and he could not have had a better opportunity...the pathway to relevancy for him was an easy one and the team would be far better off if he seized it...the fact they are giving up on him this quickly when they have limited depth at the position is not a good sign for him...on another note I'm sure a practice squad tackle from the Browns will solve the Pats issues at that position...tough for me to dislike the roster construction of this offense more.

It’s almost like Belichick is thinking he’ll zag while the rest of the NFL zigs towards explosive playmakers. Jettison Strong while bringing in Zeke, adding the lumbering JJSH and teaming him with Parker and Bourne?

Belichick is seeming to not go out so gracefully almost sneering at the new ways of the NFL. I mean I get the personnel dictates a ball control offense- but he’s put that personnel together.

He is turning into a stubborn old man.

He knows his legacy has taken a hit and that a train lead by Patrick Manholes has a chance to make Andy Reid the greatest coach of all time.


Not saying they win another Super Bowl, but Bill Belichick will go on one more deep run. He needs one more 12 or 13 win team to prove it wasn't all Tommy. Hell, that's enough to make anyone go mad.

 

[Boston]

Ok this catches my attention. Had been wondering what the latest on Ford was.

Yeah I had drafted Ford as a handcuff to Chubb, but this muddies the waters a bit in regard to clarity for the number 2 role. Ford's had a hamstring issue for a while now and still hasn't returned.

Yeah I assume Strong takes the #2.

I would say it's more he gets the opportunity because there are serious questions if he is any good...I did not hear much positive about him this pre-season and he could not have had a better opportunity...the pathway to relevancy for him was an easy one and the team would be far better off if he seized it...the fact they are giving up on him this quickly when they have limited depth at the position is not a good sign for him...on another note I'm sure a practice squad tackle from the Browns will solve the Pats issues at that position...tough for me to dislike the roster construction of this offense more.

It’s almost like Belichick is thinking he’ll zag while the rest of the NFL zigs towards explosive playmakers. Jettison Strong while bringing in Zeke, adding the lumbering JJSH and teaming him with Parker and Bourne?

Belichick is seeming to not go out so gracefully almost sneering at the new ways of the NFL. I mean I get the personnel dictates a ball control offense- but he’s put that personnel together.

He is turning into a stubborn old man.

He knows his legacy has taken a hit and that a train lead by Patrick Manholes has a chance to make Andy Reid the greatest coach of all time.


Not saying they win another Super Bowl, but Bill Belichick will go on one more deep run. He needs one more 12 or 13 win team to prove it wasn't all Tommy. Hell, that's enough to make anyone go mad.

The problem he has is that BB the GM is killing BB the HC...there is no chance of one of those 12-13 win teams unless BB the GM dramatically changes his ways (highly unlikely) or they bring in a new GM (there is a less than zero chance of happening with BB there)...it is going to be a fascinating season this year and offseason next year.

 

[Anarchy99]

Ok this catches my attention. Had been wondering what the latest on Ford was.

Yeah I had drafted Ford as a handcuff to Chubb, but this muddies the waters a bit in regard to clarity for the number 2 role. Ford's had a hamstring issue for a while now and still hasn't returned.

Yeah I assume Strong takes the #2.

I would say it's more he gets the opportunity because there are serious questions if he is any good...I did not hear much positive about him this pre-season and he could not have had a better opportunity...the pathway to relevancy for him was an easy one and the team would be far better off if he seized it...the fact they are giving up on him this quickly when they have limited depth at the position is not a good sign for him...on another note I'm sure a practice squad tackle from the Browns will solve the Pats issues at that position...tough for me to dislike the roster construction of this offense more.

It’s almost like Belichick is thinking he’ll zag while the rest of the NFL zigs towards explosive playmakers. Jettison Strong while bringing in Zeke, adding the lumbering JJSH and teaming him with Parker and Bourne?

Belichick is seeming to not go out so gracefully almost sneering at the new ways of the NFL. I mean I get the personnel dictates a ball control offense- but he’s put that personnel together.

He is turning into a stubborn old man.

He knows his legacy has taken a hit and that a train lead by Patrick Manholes has a chance to make Andy Reid the greatest coach of all time.


Not saying they win another Super Bowl, but Bill Belichick will go on one more deep run. He needs one more 12 or 13 win team to prove it wasn't all Tommy. Hell, that's enough to make anyone go mad.

Look at the teams that have gotten to the AFCCG the past few years and their QBs. Mahomes, Burrow, Allen . . . all top tier, elite guys. What's the one thing NE doesn't have? An elite QB. Until that changes, NE (and the rest of the teams in the AFC without a stud QB) will all be spinning their wheels. IMO, the rest of the roster construction is less important than finding "that guy." The Chiefs don't have great receivers . . . or a strong running game . . . or a great defense. But they have Mahomes, so the rest doesn't matter. Again, IMO, the rest of the roster in NE would be fine if they had one of those topflight quarterbacks. They can run the ball. They can get after the QB. They can play defense. Most years, they have a solid OL (who knows with all the injuries they have this year). Since they don't have that difference making QB, they will struggle against teams that do. They haven't found a replacement for Brady. Not that complicated.

 

[Boston]

Ok this catches my attention. Had been wondering what the latest on Ford was.

Yeah I had drafted Ford as a handcuff to Chubb, but this muddies the waters a bit in regard to clarity for the number 2 role. Ford's had a hamstring issue for a while now and still hasn't returned.

Yeah I assume Strong takes the #2.

I would say it's more he gets the opportunity because there are serious questions if he is any good...I did not hear much positive about him this pre-season and he could not have had a better opportunity...the pathway to relevancy for him was an easy one and the team would be far better off if he seized it...the fact they are giving up on him this quickly when they have limited depth at the position is not a good sign for him...on another note I'm sure a practice squad tackle from the Browns will solve the Pats issues at that position...tough for me to dislike the roster construction of this offense more.

It’s almost like Belichick is thinking he’ll zag while the rest of the NFL zigs towards explosive playmakers. Jettison Strong while bringing in Zeke, adding the lumbering JJSH and teaming him with Parker and Bourne?

Belichick is seeming to not go out so gracefully almost sneering at the new ways of the NFL. I mean I get the personnel dictates a ball control offense- but he’s put that personnel together.

He is turning into a stubborn old man.

He knows his legacy has taken a hit and that a train lead by Patrick Manholes has a chance to make Andy Reid the greatest coach of all time.


Not saying they win another Super Bowl, but Bill Belichick will go on one more deep run. He needs one more 12 or 13 win team to prove it wasn't all Tommy. Hell, that's enough to make anyone go mad.

Look at the teams that have gotten to the AFCCG the past few years and their QBs. Mahomes, Burrow, Allen . . . all top tier, elite guys. What's the one thing NE doesn't have? An elite QB. Until that changes, NE (and the rest of the teams in the AFC without a stud QB) will all be spinning their wheels. IMO, the rest of the roster construction is less important than finding "that guy." The Chiefs don't have great receivers . . . or a strong running game . . . or a great defense. But they have Mahomes, so the rest doesn't matter. Again, IMO, the rest of the roster in NE would be fine if they had one of those topflight quarterbacks. They can run the ball. They can get after the QB. They can play defense. Most years, they have a solid OL (who knows with all the injuries they have this year). Since they don't have that difference making QB, they will struggle against teams that do. They haven't found a replacement for Brady. Not that complicated.

Actually it is that complicated...yes, they don't have a franchise QB...point (actually excuse) taken...but that doesn't mean you totally disregard the roster construction of your offense and show up for the season with gigantic holes that are beyond obvious or put idiots like Matt Patricia in charge of your offense and the development of your QB who you used a 1st round pick on...this team is rebuilding and I have no issues with being patient but when I look at this roster I just don't see a lot of big time young talent that is close to knocking on the door and that has nothing to do with their QB situation.

 

[Birdie048]

He's one of my DEEP sleepers. I think he has a significant pass catching role, ie James White and Shane Derren. You guys remember Shane Vereen?


I think his role is pretty safe. He was never going to be a 1st, 2nd down, or goal line RB.


He ran a 4.37 forty which is very fast for a RB. Year 2 in the system, I think he surprises a lot of people this season. New England has a history of finding diamonds in the rough at RB that fit their scheme and my money says Bill has done it again.



Great PPR depth piece. Non PPR and I have zero interest.

That was my hope… until Zeke signed and Strong was battling for a roster spot with Kevin Harris. Roster cutdowns made me axe Strong.
I just don’t see him panning out for more than an occasional rec (2-3 per game) but nothing FF relevant

 

[Faust]

Keagan Stiefel
Pierre Strong Jr. just scored a touchdown for the Cleveland Browns.

The Nick Chubb injury ensured he’ll be playing a lot more in Cleveland than he would have in New England.

https://twitter.com/keaganstiefel/status/1703961009986134163?s=21