Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I have both in various leagues
Throwing poop at the wall, baby. Somethin gonna stick
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RB Kareem Hunt, CLE (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Biabreakable
- Start date
Throwing poop at the wall, baby. Somethin gonna stick
taylormeetstheismann
Footballguy
And there it is…probably the most likely scenario that no one talks about. Maybe a bit less so in redraft.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
spaghetti also works for that analogy
Wrigley
Footballguy
It’s also how you find out if it’s done, unlike poop
I own neither, My expectation is Ford disappoints, in 2-3 weeks is no longer the featured back, and this becomes a committee where no one is a worthwhile start.
Sam Quentin
Footballguy
I wouldn’t be so sure of that
Last year Hunt was 2nd string and Ford was 4th string
Hunt is making more money
Hunt had the better numbers last year
Hunt has much more experience in pass
pro and Watson is the most expensive player on the team
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I seem to recall Hunt not being very good when he last played. You can't use the "Hunt had better numbers last year" and "Hunt was 2nd string and Ford was 4th string" angles because Ford was a rookie and obviously buried on the depth chart. Those arguments are weak at best.
Sam Quentin
Footballguy
Again…zero evidence that Ford is better than Hunt, but potential evidence that Hunt is better than Ford
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
What y’all do with your poop and spaghetti in the privacy of your home is nobody’s business but your own. This is a safe space.
Good OL so that’s a positive.I grabbed him in a 12 team league I had a spot to burn.
Hopefully he rounds into the receiving side of this timeshare.
I’ve got Ford in another league.
Who knows how this shakes out. Browns might suck so much I end up dropping both.
Chubb is an incredible RB so there will obviously be a big drop off. Mid to low end RB 2 numbers possible for Ford which most of us would be happy with off the waiver wire or a really late round pick. That’s assuming the Hunt role is not a complete 50/50 type timeshare.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
That’s not how this works.gif
jm192
Footballguy
I think it says something that they kept Ford and let Hunt go.
I wish you had let us know this yesterday before I traded him away
JohnnyU
Footballguy
weak
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Hunt made $6.25M last year. He likely wanted something similar (and as he found out, no one would pay him that). They had Ford locked up for this year for $870K. With a healthy Chubb heading into the season, it could have been as simple as they didn't want to pay Hunt that kind of money.
zamboni
Footballguy
Given the huge leaguewide devaluation of the RB position, it's hardly shocking they let Hunt go. Not to say that they don't view Ford more highly than Hunt at this point, but sometimes business decisions transcends all - especially for (what had been) a backup RB role.
Of course thats what it is. Its amazing what lengths people will go to justify their all in bids.
taylormeetstheismann
Footballguy
I hear this all the time and I don’t think this viewpoint is necessarily wrong. However, I’ve never seen the long term statistics to back it up. I did do a very simplistic sample of different years going back forty years and what (I think) I saw was is that rushing statistics are about the same BUT passing/receiving statistics are up. I eye-balled the data to determine if RBBC is more common and I just couldn’t see it in the numbers I looked at with the approach I took.
Sorry sir. Didn't mean for it to go down that way. You made some valid points. Just my opinion is all. I think the Hunt signing is the same as Elliot's signing with the Patriots. He catches a few passes and maybe 5 carries a game. If anything Elliot may have been signed for some goal line duty but he's not looking to good.
Wrigley
Footballguy
King of the castle
skinsrule05
Footballguy
This is what people are glossing over. In Monday's game, Chubb was averaging 6.4 ypc. With the same line, against the same team, Ford was averaging 2.4 ypc before his broken play long run. That could be his game; gets nowhere but over time, he will break a long run. However, that has not been part of the game in the past. The drop-off from Chubb to Ford (and probably Hunt) is monstrous.Good OL so that’s a positive.I grabbed him in a 12 team league I had a spot to burn.
Hopefully he rounds into the receiving side of this timeshare.
I’ve got Ford in another league.
Who knows how this shakes out. Browns might suck so much I end up dropping both.
Chubb is an incredible RB so there will obviously be a big drop off. Mid to low end RB 2 numbers possible for Ford which most of us would be happy with off the waiver wire or a really late round pick. That’s assuming the Hunt role is not a complete 50/50 type timeshare.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Ford averaged 6.6 YPC in that game. That’s a fact. Bona fide.This is what people are glossing over. In Monday's game, Chubb was averaging 6.4 ypc. With the same line, against the same team, Ford was averaging 2.4 ypc before his broken play long run. That could be his game; gets nowhere but over time, he will break a long run. However, that has not been part of the game in the past. The drop-off from Chubb to Ford (and probably Hunt) is monstrous.Good OL so that’s a positive.I grabbed him in a 12 team league I had a spot to burn.
Hopefully he rounds into the receiving side of this timeshare.
I’ve got Ford in another league.
Who knows how this shakes out. Browns might suck so much I end up dropping both.
Chubb is an incredible RB so there will obviously be a big drop off. Mid to low end RB 2 numbers possible for Ford which most of us would be happy with off the waiver wire or a really late round pick. That’s assuming the Hunt role is not a complete 50/50 type timeshare.
Excluding his 69 yard run is weird. People should stop doing it.
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JohnnyU
Footballguy
He has prospects. He’s bonafide. You got run over by a train.Ford averages 6.6 YPC in that game. That’s a fact. Bona fide.This is what people are glossing over. In Monday's game, Chubb was averaging 6.4 ypc. With the same line, against the same team, Ford was averaging 2.4 ypc before his broken play long run. That could be his game; gets nowhere but over time, he will break a long run. However, that has not been part of the game in the past. The drop-off from Chubb to Ford (and probably Hunt) is monstrous.Good OL so that’s a positive.I grabbed him in a 12 team league I had a spot to burn.
Hopefully he rounds into the receiving side of this timeshare.
I’ve got Ford in another league.
Who knows how this shakes out. Browns might suck so much I end up dropping both.
Chubb is an incredible RB so there will obviously be a big drop off. Mid to low end RB 2 numbers possible for Ford which most of us would be happy with off the waiver wire or a really late round pick. That’s assuming the Hunt role is not a complete 50/50 type timeshare.
Excluding his 69 yard run is weird. People
Should stop doing it.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I was exactly thinking of that movie when I wrote that.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I watched it just a few days ago. Great movie, great music to the movie.I was exactly thinking of that movie when I wrote that.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
If the mantra being preached here is that all plays count . . . including his 69-yard scamper, Ford's career ypc is 3.9. That in itself isn't necessarily all that noteworthy as he's only had 39 career rushing attempts. (For those that want to exclude that one big play, his ypc would be 2.2 over his other 38 career rushing attempts.)Ford averaged 6.6 YPC in that game. That’s a fact. Bona fide.This is what people are glossing over. In Monday's game, Chubb was averaging 6.4 ypc. With the same line, against the same team, Ford was averaging 2.4 ypc before his broken play long run. That could be his game; gets nowhere but over time, he will break a long run. However, that has not been part of the game in the past. The drop-off from Chubb to Ford (and probably Hunt) is monstrous.Good OL so that’s a positive.I grabbed him in a 12 team league I had a spot to burn.
Hopefully he rounds into the receiving side of this timeshare.
I’ve got Ford in another league.
Who knows how this shakes out. Browns might suck so much I end up dropping both.
Chubb is an incredible RB so there will obviously be a big drop off. Mid to low end RB 2 numbers possible for Ford which most of us would be happy with off the waiver wire or a really late round pick. That’s assuming the Hunt role is not a complete 50/50 type timeshare.
Excluding his 69 yard run is weird. People
Should stop doing it.
IMO, the Browns would not be climbing the highest mountain shouting the praises about Ford had Chubb not gotten seriously hurt. I personally think the long run was an atypical play (ie, those don't come along very often for ANY RB and are few and far between). I still think we will see CLE trying to figure out a way to get production out of Ford / Hunt / Strong . . . and the three of them won't come close to being anywhere near as effective as Chubb was. I don't think any of them comes close to the number of touches Chubb was accustomed to getting.
I keep hearing how badly Hunt played last year, but it was more like how badly he played in week 14-18. Through the first 13 weeks of the season Hunt was putting up just about career averages, with his ypc at 4.1 yards. Week 14-18 he dropped to 2.5 ypc. Once you see the obvious break, you have to look and see why it happened. Week 13 was the last week that Hunt got any meaningful carries, after that he averaged under 4 carries a game, why were his carries cut in half at that point? Week 13 was also Watson's first start, he looked terrible, but they kept having the offense focused on him, They also shifted the RB load almost completely to Chubb, possibly to draw some pressure off Watson. Is it realistic to think, after asking for an extension, then asking for a trade, and finally being removed from the offense almost completely, that Hunt just decided to mail it in and focus on next year?
Agree. I don't like the "if you take that play out" argument, but that play was a complete defensive breakdown. I give Ford credit for taking advantage, but typically that type of run ends up in a loss more often than not. In this case, he reversed the field and NOBODY was home.If the mantra being preached here is that all plays count . . . including his 69-yard scamper, Ford's career ypc is 3.9. That in itself isn't necessarily all that noteworthy as he's only had 39 career rushing attempts. (For those that want to exclude that one big play, his ypc would be 2.2 over his other 38 career rushing attempts.)Ford averaged 6.6 YPC in that game. That’s a fact. Bona fide.This is what people are glossing over. In Monday's game, Chubb was averaging 6.4 ypc. With the same line, against the same team, Ford was averaging 2.4 ypc before his broken play long run. That could be his game; gets nowhere but over time, he will break a long run. However, that has not been part of the game in the past. The drop-off from Chubb to Ford (and probably Hunt) is monstrous.Good OL so that’s a positive.I grabbed him in a 12 team league I had a spot to burn.
Hopefully he rounds into the receiving side of this timeshare.
I’ve got Ford in another league.
Who knows how this shakes out. Browns might suck so much I end up dropping both.
Chubb is an incredible RB so there will obviously be a big drop off. Mid to low end RB 2 numbers possible for Ford which most of us would be happy with off the waiver wire or a really late round pick. That’s assuming the Hunt role is not a complete 50/50 type timeshare.
Excluding his 69 yard run is weird. People
Should stop doing it.
IMO, the Browns would not be climbing the highest mountain shouting the praises about Ford had Chubb not gotten seriously hurt. I personally think the long run was an atypical play (ie, those don't come along very often for ANY RB and are few and far between). I still think we will see CLE trying to figure out a way to get production out of Ford / Hunt / Strong . . . and the three of them won't come close to being anywhere near as effective as Chubb was. I don't think any of them comes close to the number of touches Chubb was accustomed to getting.
Boston
Footballguy
Probably be an RBBC...I don't think either will be good enough to warrant going from a semi-unknown second year backup or a FA that was without a team until week 3 to being the bell-cow their owners are dreaming they will be...unless you are a Chubb owner this is found $ and you should be very happy right now as they both have an opportunity to be fantasy relevant which they weren't 4 days ago.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
It’s on the PBP, it’s recorded in the stat sheet. He averaged 6.6Agree. I don't like the "if you take that play out" argument, but that play was a complete defensive breakdown. I give Ford credit for taking advantage, but typically that type of run ends up in a loss more often than not. In this case, he reversed the field and NOBODY was home.If the mantra being preached here is that all plays count . . . including his 69-yard scamper, Ford's career ypc is 3.9. That in itself isn't necessarily all that noteworthy as he's only had 39 career rushing attempts. (For those that want to exclude that one big play, his ypc would be 2.2 over his other 38 career rushing attempts.)Ford averaged 6.6 YPC in that game. That’s a fact. Bona fide.This is what people are glossing over. In Monday's game, Chubb was averaging 6.4 ypc. With the same line, against the same team, Ford was averaging 2.4 ypc before his broken play long run. That could be his game; gets nowhere but over time, he will break a long run. However, that has not been part of the game in the past. The drop-off from Chubb to Ford (and probably Hunt) is monstrous.Good OL so that’s a positive.I grabbed him in a 12 team league I had a spot to burn.
Hopefully he rounds into the receiving side of this timeshare.
I’ve got Ford in another league.
Who knows how this shakes out. Browns might suck so much I end up dropping both.
Chubb is an incredible RB so there will obviously be a big drop off. Mid to low end RB 2 numbers possible for Ford which most of us would be happy with off the waiver wire or a really late round pick. That’s assuming the Hunt role is not a complete 50/50 type timeshare.
Excluding his 69 yard run is weird. People
Should stop doing it.
IMO, the Browns would not be climbing the highest mountain shouting the praises about Ford had Chubb not gotten seriously hurt. I personally think the long run was an atypical play (ie, those don't come along very often for ANY RB and are few and far between). I still think we will see CLE trying to figure out a way to get production out of Ford / Hunt / Strong . . . and the three of them won't come close to being anywhere near as effective as Chubb was. I don't think any of them comes close to the number of touches Chubb was accustomed to getting.
we’ll see what he averages this week - but it’s a flawed argument to selectively remove a player’s best play then use that to project. Not saying you are doing that, but it seems to be a theme in here.
Maybe he’ll find more space this week after practicing with the 1st team & knowing he’s the starter.
What I saw on that play was the vision to reverse field after committing to one side. That’s not easy to do. And his acceleration was impressive as well. He out-ran the defenders who saw him reverse field, too.
Sure, it was a busted play - but many RBs would stick to the assignment & run into that pile on the right side of the field.
Ford didn’t, and the Browns scored an easy TD on the next play as a result. Credit where due.
I’m not saying he was facing the 85 Bears, but I’m not putting it all on a defensive gaff either.
This week will be a tough matchup. I’m torn over starting him. But not because of anything that I saw on MNF.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Da Franchise
Footballguy
Saw a clip of him catching passes from Deshaun today against air. Looked like he was running in mud.
And Marvin Mims averaged 56.5 yards per target last week. It's recorded on the stat sheet. Grab him now!It’s on the PBP, it’s recorded in the stat sheet. He averaged 6.6Agree. I don't like the "if you take that play out" argument, but that play was a complete defensive breakdown. I give Ford credit for taking advantage, but typically that type of run ends up in a loss more often than not. In this case, he reversed the field and NOBODY was home.If the mantra being preached here is that all plays count . . . including his 69-yard scamper, Ford's career ypc is 3.9. That in itself isn't necessarily all that noteworthy as he's only had 39 career rushing attempts. (For those that want to exclude that one big play, his ypc would be 2.2 over his other 38 career rushing attempts.)Ford averaged 6.6 YPC in that game. That’s a fact. Bona fide.This is what people are glossing over. In Monday's game, Chubb was averaging 6.4 ypc. With the same line, against the same team, Ford was averaging 2.4 ypc before his broken play long run. That could be his game; gets nowhere but over time, he will break a long run. However, that has not been part of the game in the past. The drop-off from Chubb to Ford (and probably Hunt) is monstrous.Good OL so that’s a positive.I grabbed him in a 12 team league I had a spot to burn.
Hopefully he rounds into the receiving side of this timeshare.
I’ve got Ford in another league.
Who knows how this shakes out. Browns might suck so much I end up dropping both.
Chubb is an incredible RB so there will obviously be a big drop off. Mid to low end RB 2 numbers possible for Ford which most of us would be happy with off the waiver wire or a really late round pick. That’s assuming the Hunt role is not a complete 50/50 type timeshare.
Excluding his 69 yard run is weird. People
Should stop doing it.
IMO, the Browns would not be climbing the highest mountain shouting the praises about Ford had Chubb not gotten seriously hurt. I personally think the long run was an atypical play (ie, those don't come along very often for ANY RB and are few and far between). I still think we will see CLE trying to figure out a way to get production out of Ford / Hunt / Strong . . . and the three of them won't come close to being anywhere near as effective as Chubb was. I don't think any of them comes close to the number of touches Chubb was accustomed to getting.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
NGL, kinda wishing I did grab him in a few leagues.
I drafted and then dropped him but was able to get him back last night with a whopping $1 bid. Stashed on the end of my bench for now. Anyone who can get 113 yards on 2 targets deserves another look.
BoltNlava
Footballguy
Got him for free. Gonna see what's what. C'mon moonball...
Anarchy99
Footballguy
All the plays count. However, how we interpret them becomes more challenging. 38 plays at 2.2 yards. 1 busted play at 69 yards. IIRC, Chubb had 3 runs in his career that long (in 1,269 rushing attempts). I am more inclined to think Ford is more closely aligned to the 2.2 ypc back in all his other carries than the one that broke off a 70-yard run. Ford certainly could rip off another long run in his next game. I wouldn't bank on it, but it could happen.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Speaking of interpretation, he had 16 carries - 15 at 2.2, might be a better way of phrasing this.
It’s also possible he doesn’t break a long one this week, but sees higher yards per carry. More first team practice reps could help that.
I’m just saying we don’t know what we don’t know, and we definitely don’t know what Ford will do week 3.
We do kinda know that if you have him rostered, week 3 is likely the best shot at relevance before Hunt gets up to speed. Probably.
Heh
From my point of view, it is not a matter of EXCLUDING the run as though that is conclusive. But it is the case that some are allowing his tiny career data set to be incredibly skewed by a single bad instance of defensive execution and are using it to suggest Ford is conclusively a better back. The data set is small and that is entirely unsupported by his limited track record. Hunt has a track record and regressed last season. Was he dinged up or was it father time? No idea on my part. But we don't know a darn thing about how they compare at this point. We can conclude that Ford will get a chance to be featured because Stefanski said so. So, props to Ford. But the jury is out and most of his work to date in very limited chances is inconclusive to meh. It is silly to disregard Hunt as a bona fide threat. So...we will just need to wait and see but everything else is smoke.
The upcoming schedule is tough against the run with Titans, Ravens, and 49ers. So, Ford gets the first chance to shine against quality opponents but there are headwinds opening the door for a timeshare or challenge by Hunt.
My bet is in four weeks it is timeshare with Hunt getting passing game and Ford the goal line work until one does something to lose that specialization to the other.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Of course.
It’s also a 1-game sample size so arguing that seems kinda silly regardless.
this is what I’ve been saying, so yeah, I agree.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Plenty of recent evidence Hunt isn't very good anymore
Ridiculous statement. Hunt finished last year with the 37th ypc among RBs at 3.8 ypc (on 123 carries). Not great but there are backs with similar numbers on more carries that did not get written off coming into the season including Rachaad White, Joe Mixon, and Brian Robinson--all mid round draft picks. Hunt also scored 8 total TDs and caught 35 passes in very low volume. That made him the number 40 ppr rb in 2022 on very limited carries. Ten percent of his carries were inside the 10 and averaged 2.6 ypc because of situation. Other backs have that but his small carry volume skews the impact associated with shorter carries inside the 10.
You know what Ford career ypc is? It is 3.9 ypc, most of which came on one blown defensive play in week 2. He will get his chance but there is NOT plenty of evidence Ford is better or that Hunt is done. Also, not evidence Hunt is better. Ford's first three matchups in the feature role blow. Probably a time share in the end. But definitely a very uncertain situation.
dmac37
Footballguy
I'm a Hunt Stan but I think it is 50/50 whether last year shows he is washed or it was an outlier with his body of work, also still fairly young with low mileage. The key to Hunt is he excels at fantasy production with limited touches. He is great as a receiving RB and a nose for the goal line, he should get a better time share sharing with Ford vs Chubb..
Chaka
Footballguy
Chubb was a potential Hall of Fame RB, I don't think anyone expects the remaining RBs on the roster to compare to him. The question is how they compare to each other. It could be a strict three man committee or one could prove to be better than the others. How it plays out is anyone's guess. What it won't be is a comparison to Chubb.
LawFitz
Footballguy
The FAAB bidders in my leagues this week prove otherwise.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Ford has done absolutely nothing to warrant much of the confidence he is receiving. The 60 yd run included in that statement.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Hunt might be washed and Ford might be yet another in a very long line of prematurely-hyped NFL JAGs. Alex Mattison, hello.
Stats aside, my eye test matters most to me, and I let the numbers then corroborate or question. My eyes tell me Ford has ok size, burst and heart, but has a concerning lack of vision and power. No clue about hands, routes and criticallly-important pass pro, as I haven't looked that deep.
Initial thought/feeling is dude is tungsten. Hunt may be nickel at this point, so not lining up there either, but not long ago he proved to be silver, and before kicking that groupie chick on her round mound, he was gold. Seems unwarranted to write Hunt off while crowning Ford, all considered.
Stats aside, my eye test matters most to me, and I let the numbers then corroborate or question. My eyes tell me Ford has ok size, burst and heart, but has a concerning lack of vision and power. No clue about hands, routes and criticallly-important pass pro, as I haven't looked that deep.
Initial thought/feeling is dude is tungsten. Hunt may be nickel at this point, so not lining up there either, but not long ago he proved to be silver, and before kicking that groupie chick on her round mound, he was gold. Seems unwarranted to write Hunt off while crowning Ford, all considered.
