cstu
Footballguy
I see it as a 1a/1b situation and see them both getting ~120 targets. They also signed Andre Roberts who should be an improvement over Josh Morgan.
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Pierre Garcon's value in 2014 in PPR leagues? (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Archer
- Start date
Shutout
Footballguy
The more I read on this one, the more I begin thinking that old phrase "A rising tide lifts all boats".
Much like Denver last year, Atlanta until last year, New England and Indy in years gone by, when you have quality pieces across the entire offense and can't key on any of them consistently, they will all thrive and the actual in-game matchups will likely dictate who has the big game from week to week.
Some weeks it will be the runners, some times it will be the bad secondary that DJAX kills, some weeks, (the games you would expect to be close throughout like GIants, Eagles, Cowboys, etc), will probably be the chain mover games where Reed and Garcon just pick teams apart.
The one thing that was said earlier in the thread was the idea that Garcon was a perfect storm guy last year and the team was always behind and won't be now. I don't know about that. Their defense still has a lot of issues. I can see them playing shootouts and come from behind quite a bit. The perfect storm part is probably true but also carries the other side of the coin to be considered. Yeah, they threw to him a ton. but they also threw AT him a ton and missed. THe number of ridiculous bad passes last year was off the charts. Plus, everyone knew where the ball was going and he still performed. To me, that shows talent and probably washes things out in terms of perceived increases or decreases.
I think Garcon will have another terrific year but might be a bit more VJAX like where he could be 7 points one week and then 27 the next.
Much like Denver last year, Atlanta until last year, New England and Indy in years gone by, when you have quality pieces across the entire offense and can't key on any of them consistently, they will all thrive and the actual in-game matchups will likely dictate who has the big game from week to week.
Some weeks it will be the runners, some times it will be the bad secondary that DJAX kills, some weeks, (the games you would expect to be close throughout like GIants, Eagles, Cowboys, etc), will probably be the chain mover games where Reed and Garcon just pick teams apart.
The one thing that was said earlier in the thread was the idea that Garcon was a perfect storm guy last year and the team was always behind and won't be now. I don't know about that. Their defense still has a lot of issues. I can see them playing shootouts and come from behind quite a bit. The perfect storm part is probably true but also carries the other side of the coin to be considered. Yeah, they threw to him a ton. but they also threw AT him a ton and missed. THe number of ridiculous bad passes last year was off the charts. Plus, everyone knew where the ball was going and he still performed. To me, that shows talent and probably washes things out in terms of perceived increases or decreases.
I think Garcon will have another terrific year but might be a bit more VJAX like where he could be 7 points one week and then 27 the next.
(HULK)
(Smash)
cstu
Footballguy
I agree but i believe a close 2nd guy to own is ALF I think if healthy hes set up to have a tremendous season. With all the passing game weapons and with RGlll wheels how can you key on him? He will see 6 and 7 in the box, Combine that with the fact he's arguably the best back in the league in yds after contact i think he could push for 20 rush Td this season!
flapgreen
Footballguy
After just saying he was a WR3 last week. Another game with moderate targets and most of his points on one big play. Not looking good.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Very anxious to get RG3 back soon. Garçon's value has been in the tank without him. Good times lay ahead.
Shutout
Footballguy
Yeah, its not great week in and week out like it was last year, but you could do worse.
He's top 22-25 or so in ppr but it feels like so much less (guess it feels that way when comparing to last year when you just stuck him in the starting lineup and collected your double digits).
But the funny (optimistically funny) thing about it right now is, at this point last year, it's not a stark difference when you compare it.
He is off by one catch and about 8 yards a game compared to last season and he is actually ahead of his TD pace.
I don't think so. He has an established connection with RGIII, which showed when he caught 10 passes in Game 1. That DJax continued to excel far above him in RGIII's first game back is concerning, but it's just one game. Plus Stl, NYG and Phi in playoffs looks promising.ahartig said:
At least DeSean seems to be having a nice year...dcgangstas
Footballguy
Agreed.
Actually, he's the WR version of Shady McCoy, a great "buy-low" candidate for the 2nd half (too late to acquire McCoy before he blows up now, however).
Cousins never seemed comfortable with Garcon for some unknown reason. It wasn't like Garcon couldn't get separation anymore or was in decline. Before it's all said and done for Pierre, I'd expect around 1000 yards receiving and 7 or 8 TDs.
zamboni
Footballguy
Bumping this with RGIII back.
DJax got more targets and did more damage in RGIII's first game back, and both did well in opening day with RGIII.
The Gruden offense seems more conducive to quick strikes to DJax versus Shanahan's force feeding of Garcon. But we've had a small sample with RGIII.
Just curious as to what people are thinking about Garcon the rest of the way, and versus DJax.
DJax got more targets and did more damage in RGIII's first game back, and both did well in opening day with RGIII.
The Gruden offense seems more conducive to quick strikes to DJax versus Shanahan's force feeding of Garcon. But we've had a small sample with RGIII.
Just curious as to what people are thinking about Garcon the rest of the way, and versus DJax.
zamboni
Footballguy
Faust
MVP
Pierre Garcon disappearing in Jay Gruden's offense:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000431770/article/pierre-garcon-disappearing-in-jay-grudens-offense
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000431770/article/pierre-garcon-disappearing-in-jay-grudens-offense
flapgreen
Footballguy
With no Blue, Murray, or McKinnon, I have to start this turd. 
Garcon hasn't become a worse receiver. Gruden and the qb play are just not good enough to figure out a way to get him involved. It's not like the offense is thriving without him either.
Garcon hasn't become a worse receiver. Gruden and the qb play are just not good enough to figure out a way to get him involved. It's not like the offense is thriving without him either.
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Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
I'm starting him tommorow for the first time in weeks. I trust Colt McCoy will make Garçon a fantasy worthy start again but not expecting anything like his value last year. Baby steps.
Archer
Footballguy
Yep, absolutely nothing wrong with Garcon. Everything is wrong with the coaching of this offense though...With no Blue, Murray, or McKinnon, I have to start this turd.
Garcon hasn't become a worse receiver. Gruden and the qb play are just not good enough to figure out a way to get him involved. It's not like the offense is thriving without him either.
dcgangstas
Footballguy
True, there's nothing wrong talent-wise with Garcon.Yep, absolutely nothing wrong with Garcon. Everything is wrong with the coaching of this offense though...With no Blue, Murray, or McKinnon, I have to start this turd.
Garcon hasn't become a worse receiver. Gruden and the qb play are just not good enough to figure out a way to get him involved. It's not like the offense is thriving without him either.
But he's droppable in 10 and 12-team leagues.
Garcon was one of the most obvious "avoid at MSRP" players last year for redraft. They actually threw for over 400 more yards last year than the year before, but not surprisingly, DeSean Jackson and Andre Roberts were more productive than Santana Moss and Leonard Hankerson.
I wonder if the backlash due to his letdown year will be great enough to drop his price down into "value" territory this year.
I wonder if the backlash due to his letdown year will be great enough to drop his price down into "value" territory this year.
He dropped to the 10th round in MFL10s... seems like a steal that late, considering he lead the league in receptions two years ago.
Despite the bottom-feeder QB play and Desean addition he still had 68/753/3, which isn't exactly a colossal PPR bust, considering many drafted him as a WR3. He finished as a low WR4.
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Wise Old Owl
Footballguy
Gruden really wrecked this offense
trader jake
Footballguy
The offense was wrecked when Gruden took over. Nobody's saying he's the next Bill Walsh but the real problem on the roster is the play at the quarterback position.Well, the real problem is one of the most meddlesome owners in all of professional sports, but besides that.
Todd Andrews
Footballguy
Gruden handled the QB position like a whiffleball coach this past year. He has to bear a lot of the blame.trader jake said:
Wise Old Owl
Footballguy
By almost every metric the offense was worse in '14 than '13. The only exception is passing yards (by virtue of 60+ more attempts and desean jackson). He took an underperforming offense and made it worse. He killed the run game.
The TD:INT ratio left something to be desired, but they threw for 10% MORE yards in 2014 than 2013, so it is hard to blame the QBs for Garcon's paltry yardage. It should be a little alarming that the guy seems to have a degenerative foot injury and he hasn't cracked 12 YPR in two straight seasons.Phenomena said:
Also, you might want to check your ADP's again... His 0PPR ADP was WR15. His 1PPR ADP was WR14. People drafted him as a high end WR2 and he finished WR54 in 0PPR. I don't have a way to check 1PPR, but I guess you are saying he finished somewhere in the WR37-48 range. That is a colossal bust.
Wat? The aggregate Washington QB (which, please remember, includes a healthy dose of Colt McCoy) passed for 10% more yards in 2014 than 2013 despite 65 LESS pass attempts. They ranked 3rd in the league in YPA compared to 2013 when they ranked 23rd. They also improved completion percentage in 2014 to 66.9% from 58.5% in 2013. Those are not incremental improvements. That is pretty astounding.
Sooo... no, there are a few metrics they improved upon and those are all related the aspect of the game we are addressing right here. I'm not going to disagree that the offense as a whole was less effective. They ran less passing and rushing plays and scored less points (18.8 vs. 20.9) but right now we're talking about passing/receiving. Gruden did improve on several of those metrics which makes Garcon's crappy numbers appear even more crappy.
