***Official*** 2016 defending Super Bowl Champion Denver Broncos (2 Viewers)

[moleculo]

Well, i'm chalking up yesterdays game to "#### happens".  This team was very fortunate to get some breaks last year, they just aren't getting enough this year.  It's a shame, really, that this truly is a great team outside of a few key spots - namely, special teams and OL (especially RT).  Unfortunately, those are two areas that can wreck a game.  Broncos kicked the #### out of the Chiefs yesterday except for these two spots.  The defense allowed 15 points and 195 yards (3.4 yards per play) in regulation, while gaining 27 points and 384 yards (7.24 yards per play).  The difference in the game was the muffed punts by Norwood that led to the safety and the ensuing free-kick returned for a TD and the illegal formation on the chiefs FG which turned into a TD.  

In total, that's 2 points directly attributable to the RT (Sambralio), and 11 on ST (4 for difference between 3 and 7 on the FG and 7 for allowing a fair kick to be returned).

This is not a SB caliber team.  SB caliber teams cannot afford stupid mistakes like that, and cannot have such glaring holes at key positions.  

on the bright side, Siemian looked really good.  It's time for Kubes to open things up more, IMO.

 

[rascal]

Well, i'm chalking up yesterdays game to "#### happens".  This team was very fortunate to get some breaks last year, they just aren't getting enough this year.  It's a shame, really, that this truly is a great team outside of a few key spots - namely, special teams and OL (especially RT).  Unfortunately, those are two areas that can wreck a game.  Broncos kicked the #### out of the Chiefs yesterday except for these two spots.  The defense allowed 15 points and 195 yards (3.4 yards per play) in regulation, while gaining 27 points and 384 yards (7.24 yards per play).  The difference in the game was the muffed punts by Norwood that led to the safety and the ensuing free-kick returned for a TD and the illegal formation on the chiefs FG which turned into a TD.  

In total, that's 2 points directly attributable to the RT (Sambralio), and 11 on ST (4 for difference between 3 and 7 on the FG and 7 for allowing a fair kick to be returned).

This is not a SB caliber team.  SB caliber teams cannot afford stupid mistakes like that, and cannot have such glaring holes at key positions.  

on the bright side, Siemian looked really good.  It's time for Kubes to open things up more, IMO.

Elway needs to sign a stud DT/DE and then use every draft pick for oline.  Sad thing is that our line was getting its ### kicked by a rookie and three guys who were on the street earlier this season.  Norwood needs to be canned immediately.

 

[moleculo]

Elway needs to sign a stud DT/DE and then use every draft pick for oline.  Sad thing is that our line was getting its ### kicked by a rookie and three guys who were on the street earlier this season.  Norwood needs to be canned immediately.

We can get by with the DT/DE we have now, IMO.  I'm not convinced we can improve by drafting OL.  Sambralio was a 2nd rounder and is hot garbage.  

IMO Elway needs to stop bargain-shopping at this position.  Broncos are 30th in the league in terms of positional spending at the OL position.  Both of our tackles are stop-gaps because Broncos were up against the cap in 2016 due to Millers deal.  It's time to shoot the lock off of the wallet in 2017.  Broncos should have $38M available next year (14th in the league), with only Ware and Sly Williams as the only UFA starters. 

 

[Ghost Rider]

Well, i'm chalking up yesterdays game to "#### happens".  This team was very fortunate to get some breaks last year, they just aren't getting enough this year.  It's a shame, really, that this truly is a great team outside of a few key spots - namely, special teams and OL (especially RT).  Unfortunately, those are two areas that can wreck a game.  Broncos kicked the #### out of the Chiefs yesterday except for these two spots.  The defense allowed 15 points and 195 yards (3.4 yards per play) in regulation, while gaining 27 points and 384 yards (7.24 yards per play).  The difference in the game was the muffed punts by Norwood that led to the safety and the ensuing free-kick returned for a TD and the illegal formation on the chiefs FG which turned into a TD.  

In total, that's 2 points directly attributable to the RT (Sambralio), and 11 on ST (4 for difference between 3 and 7 on the FG and 7 for allowing a fair kick to be returned).

This is not a SB caliber team.  SB caliber teams cannot afford stupid mistakes like that, and cannot have such glaring holes at key positions.  

on the bright side, Siemian looked really good.  It's time for Kubes to open things up more, IMO.

I agree with most of this. 

Special teams were awful and largely to blame for the loss, but the D really let them down in the last 18 minutes of the game.  

They can still go 3-2 down the stretch and make the playoffs (I think Miami goes 2-3 at best down the stretch), which I think they will.  

Interestingly, depending on how it plays out with NE and Oakland, if the Broncos make it could down to who needs what regarding home field, since the Broncos play the Raiders and the Patriots the Dolphins in week 17. 

 

[thatguy]

so much for that.

Is he healthy? I'm convinced he's not. He has no strength to speak of...

 

[Ghost Rider]

It's simple:

Win our last two games, and hope NE beats Miami and KC beats SD next week. 

There we go. 

 

[Evilgrin 72]

It's simple:

Win our last two games, and hope NE beats Miami and KC beats SD next week. 

There we go. 

I think you guys need the Steelers to win today as well. If they lose and beat Cleveland next week in this scenario, I believe the Steelers win a 3 way tiebreaker with Miami and Denver. I could be wrong, but I believe that's how it plays out. 

You guys root for us this afternoon and we'll root for you tonight, deal?

 

[Ghost Rider]

I think you guys need the Steelers to win today as well. If they lose and beat Cleveland next week in this scenario, I believe the Steelers win a 3 way tiebreaker with Miami and Denver. I could be wrong, but I believe that's how it plays out. 

You guys root for us this afternoon and we'll root for you tonight, deal?

Works for me. 

 

[moleculo]

welp, not sure what else to say but this: in the entire month of December (4 games), the Broncos have had one (1) TD drive of more than 30 yards. Over that span, they have had sixteen (16) three-and-outs.

this is not playoff football.  

I don't think it's about the QB: Romo ain't gonna help.  In my analysis, fault lies in two places:

1. the OL is terrible, especially both tackles.  I think Elway was forced to go cheap here to be able to fit Von under the cap.  I'm not sure if this can be fixed in the off-season but anything has got to be better. Hell, I'm pretty sure my 5'5", 160 lb self could be more of a speed bump than Stephenson was on a few plays this season.
   
2. coaching and play-calling has got to improve.  I think that Kubes is a technocrat and wants the players to fit into his scheme.  I'm scared that his scheme is 20 years old and needs re-freshed - what worked in 1997 won't work now.  I question if Kubes is smart enough to innovate out of this mess, and especially with Dennison as the OC.
   

I also believe that KR/PR has got to be addressed in a meaningful way in the draft.  Why can't we have our own Tyreek Hill?  

moving forward, it wouldn't surprise me if Kubiak calls it a career, based on his health situation (also, possibly encouraged to step down by Elway).  Who knows how it plays out after that.  Obviously, a new coach would be pressured to keep Wade in place, but who wants to deal with not being able to hire his own DC?  How attractive of a job would that be - yeah, you inherit a great D and a couple of WR's, but you have no say in what happens defensively, you are on a short leash with Elway's shadow hanging over you, and expectations would be sky high.  I'm not sure that's really the best spot for a hot-shot HC prospect. (It would be a perfect sport for a guy like Josh McD had he not already worn out his welcome in Denver.)

 

[Ghost Rider]

Great thoughts, @moleculo.

Totally agree about QB.  While the offense hasn't been scoring, I cannot blame that on Siemian.  Hard for any QB to produce when your line is that bad.  If Kubiak would retire, though, that would a severe blow to him. Hard to believe anyone new would do as good a job with him as Kubiak did this year. 

Improving the offensive line has got to the number 1 priority. 

To free up money, I'd be fine with letting Demaryius Thomas go.  Not sure how much he will make next year, but I am sure it is too much for a guy who no longer makes the tough catches.  He's still good, but no longer a top 10 NFL WR. 

 

[ffldrew]

Good stuff @moleculo

Talib, Ware, Okung, Stephenson, Virgil Green are going to be gone unless there is some major restructuring - thats $30M to try and find some O Line. TJ Ward might be on the edge as well to make it 35M especially with the young guys they have showing up in DB. 

If I understand DT's situation - he'd be a cap hit still of 7M - so I think he is safe for now - but if it was a different scenario I agree he could be a victim.

They need to do a better job in evaluation of OLine free agents cause Stephenson and Okung were whiffs.

Kick returning has to improve - this was downright embarrassing this season - cost us a couple of games or stopped some comebacks in it's tracks.. 

I wouldn't be shocked if Kubiak calls it a day. Sean Payton?

 

[Stinkin Ref]

bye bye playoffs....

Bump......

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Chiming in as a KC fan....loved seeing DEN give QB money to a defensive player long term....where was Von this year...?...do you think you got your moneys worth...?....no...didn't think so....thats the problem with giving your top money to a player that can be game planned out of the game...you can chip/bump Von and he's out of the play....heck they had him in coverage on the opposite side of the field sometimes.....QB money needs to go to QB or else you are DEN/HOU....granted things fell right for DEN last year (no antonio brown or Bell and a gimpy Ben instead of KC coming to their house and kicking ### again) but they also had a Manning to squash the locker room stuff.....Elway swings and missses on online in drafts and try's to salvage with Okgung and stephenson retreads....no dice...Dak Prescott shows DEN swung and missed on QB too....cause Lynch aint the answer....long road ahead cause while Trevor played tough...he really only played like a game and a half of high level QB.....this was supposed to be a running team, yet they gave all their money to a defensive player and their WR's.....

Have a nice off season....but please beat the Raiders first....

 

[Ghost Rider]

Von is 2nd in the league in sacks this season; he more than earned his money.  The problem lately was that the offense couldn't score, so the other team's offense was never in obvious passing situations, and Miller never got to tee off. 

 

[moleculo]

Von should be DPOY.  He has been well-worth the money.

 

[Ghost Rider]

You can't help but wonder how things play out if they punt against KC and get a tie, instead of attempting that long FG, a month ago; they went 1-3 down the stretch after that. Granted, the defense was just fine after that until last night - the offense has been most of the problem since - but still can't help but wonder. 

 

[moleculo]

Good stuff @moleculo

Talib, Ware, Okung, Stephenson, Virgil Green are going to be gone unless there is some major restructuring - thats $30M to try and find some O Line. TJ Ward might be on the edge as well to make it 35M especially with the young guys they have showing up in DB. 

If I understand DT's situation - he'd be a cap hit still of 7M - so I think he is safe for now - but if it was a different scenario I agree he could be a victim.

They need to do a better job in evaluation of OLine free agents cause Stephenson and Okung were whiffs.

Kick returning has to improve - this was downright embarrassing this season - cost us a couple of games or stopped some comebacks in it's tracks.. 

I wouldn't be shocked if Kubiak calls it a day. Sean Payton?

Broncos have $30M of space headed into next year even with Talib under contract.  The only big name FA's headed into next year are DeMarcus Ware and Sly Williams.  Cutting just Okung, Stephenson, and Green gets the Broncos to almost $45M.

 

[massraider]

Broncos have $30M of space headed into next year even with Talib under contract.  The only big name FA's headed into next year are DeMarcus Ware and Sly Williams.  Cutting just Okung, Stephenson, and Green gets the Broncos to almost $45M.

Interesting regarding cap space: almost everyone has it now.  Teams can really afford to do whatever they want, re-sign any FA they need to, and go and get several FA.  

Okung and Talib are both gone?  

 

[ffldrew]

Broncos have $30M of space headed into next year even with Talib under contract.  The only big name FA's headed into next year are DeMarcus Ware and Sly Williams.  Cutting just Okung, Stephenson, and Green gets the Broncos to almost $45M.

Interesting regarding cap space: almost everyone has it now.  Teams can really afford to do whatever they want, re-sign any FA they need to, and go and get several FA.  

Okung and Talib are both gone?  

Okung is due a 10M roster bonus - they aren't paying that.

The Broncos have some great young players in the DB that are a lot cheaper than Talib. The locker room incident may not have helped his cause. I like his style and attitude and it does bring a sense of nastiness to the D. But 11M is his salary with only a 1M bonus. So to me the math says you may have to cut him - maybe they figure out something. 

To me it's looking like there are two new paths to the Championship above the franchise QB. The killer D approach starting with the DB's - like Denver and Seattle. The other is a great O line like the Cowboys are showing can work without a proven QB. From these models you need to still find balance with cheap talent at the opposite path - Broncos tried to do that this year and it didn't work with the strikeouts at O Line.

Forgot about Sly Williams - he's been a strikeout as well based on his draft spot. He's ok being switched out a lot but not worth any big money as a full time starter. They really missed with Malik. Those DT's aren't cheap though.

Even with all the FA money league wide next year you'd have to think the Broncos would be a good spot to pick if money is close to even.

 

[dcgangstas]

Clearly Trevor Sieman and Paxton Lynch aren't the answer (short or long-term) for the Broncos.  

Staggering that Dontari Poe of the Chiefs has thrown for as many touchdowns in his last game as Sieman has passed for in his last three.  

 

[moleculo]

Interesting regarding cap space: almost everyone has it now.  Teams can really afford to do whatever they want, re-sign any FA they need to, and go and get several FA.  

Okung and Talib are both gone?  

not quite true.  Here's the cap outlook headed into 2017.  Broncos are 18th on the list.  Like i said previously - the only starters who are slated to be UFA are DeMarcus Ware and Sly Williams.  Nearly the entire 2017 CAP space can be used towards upgrading (as opposed to re-signing or filling holes left by others).  

That $30M of space headed into next year includes $11.7M for Okung and $5M for Stephenson.  broncos could cut these bums and add nearly $15M in space.

 

[moleculo]

Clearly Trevor Sieman and Paxton Lynch aren't the answer (short or long-term) for the Broncos.  

Staggering that Dontari Poe of the Chiefs has thrown for as many touchdowns in his last game as Sieman has passed for in his last three.  

I don't think that's clear at all.

 

[moleculo]

Welp, thats the end of that.  If the Broncos played last week like they played today, they would be playing next week.  It has been a disapointing season, but what a great ending.  Nothing quite like blowing out the raiders and JDR.

Looks like Kubes will be stepping down and Wades contract is up, so who knows what happens.  Fortunately, the Broncos are in a good position to find a qualified coach.  They will be in the mix along with everyone else (as opposed to 2 years ago when Fox got canned midway thru the playoffs).  some replacement names being tossed around: Vance Joseph, Sean Peyton (my favorite), Bill Musgrave, Jim Harbaugh (unlikely).  It's probably going to be someone no one is thinking about.  I certainly hope that whomever it is will keep Wade around.

Moving on to next year: Broncos will have $39M in cap space (18th in the league), and only two starting caliber FA (Ware and Sly).  Three if you count Vance Walker.  Seriously - this is the entire list of FA's.  Broncos will have plenty of money to throw at free agents.

I think the Broncos let Ware walk - there is some really good depth @ edge rusher between Shane Ray, Shaq Barrett, and Dekoda Watson.  it will be interesting what they do about Sly Williams but that probably will have a lot to do with the coaching fit.  What if Wade walks and the new guy wants to run a 4-3... would Sly have value?

Kayvon Webster is another interesting guy - ST ace, but probably wants the chance to go somewhere to start.

I know the fashionable thing is to dump on the QB, but by my eye, Siemian was never the weak point of the team.  The OL play has been just...terrible.  with a line that bad, no QB is going to look great.  And at the end of the day, Siemian was not the worst QB in the league - not even close.  He's been decidedly mediocre, which is pretty good for a first year starter.

 

[ffldrew]

Welp, thats the end of that.  If the Broncos played last week like they played today, they would be playing next week.  It has been a disapointing season, but what a great ending.  Nothing quite like blowing out the raiders and JDR.

Looks like Kubes will be stepping down and Wades contract is up, so who knows what happens.  Fortunately, the Broncos are in a good position to find a qualified coach.  They will be in the mix along with everyone else (as opposed to 2 years ago when Fox got canned midway thru the playoffs).  some replacement names being tossed around: Vance Joseph, Sean Peyton (my favorite), Bill Musgrave, Jim Harbaugh (unlikely).  It's probably going to be someone no one is thinking about.  I certainly hope that whomever it is will keep Wade around.

Moving on to next year: Broncos will have $39M in cap space (18th in the league), and only two starting caliber FA (Ware and Sly).  Three if you count Vance Walker.  Seriously - this is the entire list of FA's.  Broncos will have plenty of money to throw at free agents.

I think the Broncos let Ware walk - there is some really good depth @ edge rusher between Shane Ray, Shaq Barrett, and Dekoda Watson.  it will be interesting what they do about Sly Williams but that probably will have a lot to do with the coaching fit.  What if Wade walks and the new guy wants to run a 4-3... would Sly have value?

Kayvon Webster is another interesting guy - ST ace, but probably wants the chance to go somewhere to start.

I know the fashionable thing is to dump on the QB, but by my eye, Siemian was never the weak point of the team.  The OL play has been just...terrible.  with a line that bad, no QB is going to look great.  And at the end of the day, Siemian was not the worst QB in the league - not even close.  He's been decidedly mediocre, which is pretty good for a first year starter.

With ya on getting Peyton - not sure what the price is but it's worth a look

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Welp, thats the end of that.  If the Broncos played last week like they played today, they would be playing next week.  It has been a disapointing season, but what a great ending.  Nothing quite like blowing out the raiders and JDR.

Looks like Kubes will be stepping down and Wades contract is up, so who knows what happens.  Fortunately, the Broncos are in a good position to find a qualified coach.  They will be in the mix along with everyone else (as opposed to 2 years ago when Fox got canned midway thru the playoffs).  some replacement names being tossed around: Vance Joseph, Sean Peyton (my favorite), Bill Musgrave, Jim Harbaugh (unlikely).  It's probably going to be someone no one is thinking about.  I certainly hope that whomever it is will keep Wade around.

Moving on to next year: Broncos will have $39M in cap space (18th in the league), and only two starting caliber FA (Ware and Sly).  Three if you count Vance Walker.  Seriously - this is the entire list of FA's.  Broncos will have plenty of money to throw at free agents.

I think the Broncos let Ware walk - there is some really good depth @ edge rusher between Shane Ray, Shaq Barrett, and Dekoda Watson.  it will be interesting what they do about Sly Williams but that probably will have a lot to do with the coaching fit.  What if Wade walks and the new guy wants to run a 4-3... would Sly have value?

Kayvon Webster is another interesting guy - ST ace, but probably wants the chance to go somewhere to start.

I know the fashionable thing is to dump on the QB, but by my eye, Siemian was never the weak point of the team.  The OL play has been just...terrible.  with a line that bad, no QB is going to look great.  And at the end of the day, Siemian was not the worst QB in the league - not even close.  He's been decidedly mediocre, which is pretty good for a first year starter.

Your first sentence is wrong.....KC was and is the better team....3 times in a row that defense has not scared them and it really is 4 had it not been for the Charles fumble....DEN wanted no part of KC is the playoffs last year and loved seeing a depleted PIT team come into town in the playoffs instead of the Chiefs....

 

[Stinkin Ref]

DEN has shown that unless they have a HOF QB they are nothing special....

 

[Ghost Rider]

When is the last time the Chiefs were anything special?  1994?  

Overall, good post, @moleculo.   

 

[Stinkin Ref]

When is the last time the Chiefs were anything special?  1994?  

Overall, good post, @moleculo.   

Most Broncos fans would probably agree that KC was pretty special this year....giving DEN their two biggest loses......no doubt KC hasn't done much....but without an Elway or Manning DEN hasn't either.....same can be said for many teams...

 

[Buffaloes]

no doubt KC hasn't done much....but without an Elway or Manning DEN hasn't either

well good thing Denver still has Elway.

 

[rascal]

Most Broncos fans would probably agree that KC was pretty special this year....no doubt KC hasn't done much....

No, most wouldn't...No ####...Lol

 

[Ghost Rider]

Being a Chiefs fan, to him, winning the division and getting a bye IS special.  Since they never do anything in the postseason, the standard for what is special is much lower.  Home losses to two non-playoff teams in the last six weeks might seem special to him, but they sure wouldn't to us Broncos fans.  

 

[moleculo]

Your first sentence is wrong.....KC was and is the better team....3 times in a row that defense has not scared them and it really is 4 had it not been for the Charles fumble....DEN wanted no part of KC is the playoffs last year and loved seeing a depleted PIT team come into town in the playoffs instead of the Chiefs....

Take your #### talking to the KC thread, thx.

 

[moleculo]

Take your #### talking to the KC thread, thx.

Well, turns out there isn't a KC thread.  40k message board posters here @ FBG, and no one cares enough to talk about the chiefs... And you want to tell me they are 'special'.  Gtfo.  Even the Jags and Browns have a thread.

 

[Courtjester]

Being a Chiefs fan, to him, winning the division and getting a bye IS special.  Since they never do anything in the postseason, the standard for what is special is much lower.  Home losses to two non-playoff teams in the last six weeks might seem special to him, but they sure wouldn't to us Broncos fans.  

Yeah the bar is pretty low for KC knowing they are more than likely one and done this year again (assuming Pitt beats Miami).

KC has been saying wait until next year for how long now? But Len Dawson isn't coming down that tunnel anytime soon guys.

 

[thatguy]

Your first sentence is wrong.....KC was and is the better team....3 times in a row that defense has not scared them and it really is 4 had it not been for the Charles fumble....DEN wanted no part of KC is the playoffs last year and loved seeing a depleted PIT team come into town in the playoffs instead of the Chiefs....

His first sentence was "Welp, that's the end of that." Seems pretty true to me.

And,  Charles did fumble--more accurately Brandon Marshall manhandled the ball out of his delicate little hands. If ifs and buts were...

 

[thatguy]

DEN has shown that unless they have a HOF QB they are nothing special....

Oh , except that they wouldn't even have made the playoffs last year without the play of a QB who recently got benched for Tom Savage.

 

[thatguy]

Most Broncos fans would probably agree that KC was pretty special this year....giving DEN their two biggest loses......no doubt KC hasn't done much....but without an Elway or Manning DEN hasn't either.....same can be said for many teams...

As has been said,  no.  To your first sentence that is. Yes, to your third sentence,  if it can be called that. Educate yourself on the use of ellipsis in writing.  It might help you.  Then again...

 

[thatguy]

Okay,  that being said it's time to ramp up the 2017 season talk.  Guess I'll start the thread...

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I suppose it is all just semantics, but aren't  the Broncos now reigning Super Bowl Champions, but not Defending Super Bowl Champions.  Time to change the thread title.  The Broncos are no longer defending anything, they are looking forward to the next season and addressing getting in a staff in time to properly work the bowl scouting season and the combine.

BTW, I heard a lot of doom and gloom the past two weeks.  I note the Broncos had the same record as the Packers who are riding high, they also were and are clearly better than playoff teams Detroit and Houston, and arguably are better, right now, than Miami and the Carr-less Raiders.  They are not all that far away.  It might be that just the year experience for Trevor Siemian coupled with a decent draft at O-line could have them right back in the thick of things.

Buck up Broncos fans.

 

[thatguy]

No doom and gloom here.  I'm excited for a (hopefully) productive and exciting off-season. And with Elway steering the ship,  I'm sure we'll get just that. 

 

[moleculo]

I suppose it is all just semantics, but aren't  the Broncos now reigning Super Bowl Champions, but not Defending Super Bowl Champions.  Time to change the thread title.  The Broncos are no longer defending anything, they are looking forward to the next season and addressing getting in a staff in time to properly work the bowl scouting season and the combine.

BTW, I heard a lot of doom and gloom the past two weeks.  I note the Broncos had the same record as the Packers who are riding high, they also were and are clearly better than playoff teams Detroit and Houston, and arguably are better, right now, than Miami and the Carr-less Raiders.  They are not all that far away.  It might be that just the year experience for Trevor Siemian coupled with a decent draft at O-line could have them right back in the thick of things.

Buck up Broncos fans.

nah.  This thread was about the 2016 Denver Broncos who were defending champs.  There is already a 2017 thread to deal with their inability to defend.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Just chiming in with a little reality check from a non homer (KC fan living in CO, so also follow Broncos pretty closely).  I think there is a pretty sizable list of mistakes that where made and many of them by #7. I know Bronco fans will have a hard time questioning his actions and won't want to admit that he may not be as great at this job as he was at playing QB.

1. OZ: granted OZ went to HOU and pretty much stunk up the joint, he is however still playing. Whats funny is that while Elway may look like a genius with how this all shook out, we need not forget that he really had intentions that could have lead to a major #### storm had he kept OZ and he played in Denver like he did in HOU.  Elway misread the market for Oz big time by low balling him at $12 mil, then tried to save the day at the last minute by upping it to $16 mil.  I don't think Oz would have struggled in DEN like he did in HOU but I guess it worked out ok for Elway here even though he had every intention of trying to keep him. People like to say it was getting benched in the SD game that caused some of this, and I think that had something to do with it, but IMO it was the fact that they waited so long for the Manning retirement announcement before really trying to resign OZ. So he got a little snarkier than he would have and didn't play very nice in the sandbox once negotiations did start.  They showed very little committment to OZ so he walked when the situation presented itself. It's hard to say if OZ would have been an upgrade over Siemian/Lynch, but based on what I saw when Oz did play for DEN, I think it's safe to say he wouldn't have done any worse and probably would have been a better option for this team that has a SB window still open with this defense.  Denver probably makes the playoffs with Oz.

2. CJA: Bottom line...Elway swung and missed here too.  Misread the market and ended up having to pay more than he needed to.

3. Oline: has pretty much swung and missed here as well.  Traded away Clady, he has been injured with the Jets so I guess you can say what you want about this move, but can all probably agree that he would have helped this offensive line this year. Pro bowl talent Elway sent packing. He has missed on pretty much every draft pick at this position leading to an offensive line whose best player (Paradis) was so banged up throughout the year he never actually practiced. He swung and missed on both Okung and Stephenson as low priced gap fillers, which is due in part to mega deal for Von and other re-signings including the WR's. This was supposed to be a running team under Kubiak's system but very little was spent on the biggest piece of that system. The draft and impending free agents don't look real promising at this position.

4. DT: getting paid elite WR money with new contract under Elway but not playing like elite WR.  This probably has to be a miss as well as he is not giving DEN a good ROI.  IMO Sanders is the best all around WR on the team but DT is getting paid like it. 

5. Malik: probably had no real chance to sign him, but letting him walk in free agency and not replacing showed this year in a big way.

6. Danny T.: might have been an even bigger loss for the Broncos than Malik all things considered.

7. Colquitt: was an instrumental part of the run last year putting DEN dst in good position. Guess jury is still out on Dixon, but have to think Elway weakened this position as well by trying to save a few bucks. Dixon was a downgrade.

8. QB position: the Sanchez experiment turned out to be a swing and miss. While Siemian showed some toughness I also think he showed that he is not the answer.  He really only had a few good games, and he never really seemed to make the plays when they needed him to.  He was god awful at times. I know must will say he was dinged, etc. and use that as an excuse, but I think even at full strength he is not that good.  Elway also completely misread Lynch with his "he will be ready sooner than most people think" proclamations. He is still a long ways away and he is no Russell Wilson where you can get elite level of play for awhile under a cheap rookie contract while you spend your money elsewhere and load up at other positions.  Many people think Lynch is years away from being ready.  Eventually this defense is going to keep losing pieces like it has already and the elite defense may get wasted waiting for Lynch to "develop".  Curious if Bronco fans really think either of Lynch or Siemian can take this team to a super bowl in say....the next 5 years.  I don't think so. Romo is an immediate upgrade and I wouldn't be surprised if that heats up once DAL is done this year. QB money is now getting deposited in Von's account leaving Elway to try and piece something together here. Unfortunately for DEN, I think Elway is going to be stubborn and really think that Lynch is the answer.  Elway is hanging his hat on this kid and will be expecting/forcing the new coach to play him.  I think he wanted Kub's to do it, but Kub's didn't want too and wasn't going to cause he thought Siemian was and is better.  I think this had a part in Kub's leaving.  I think it was Elway that said, "play the kid part of the last game against OAK" and Kubs agreed and said he would but knew he never really intended to. I think him not playing Lynch in the last game was a big middle finger to Elway. 

9. Talib; still amazed he somehow got away without punishment even though he was so drunk he didn't remember shooting himself.  His story which we all really know is a bunch of BS is just laughing in the face of the commish and everybody else.  This guy is a POS and it only took a matter of time for him to infect the locker room and create division between the offense and defense. Manning wasn't there anymore to keep him in his place. This is your leader. 

and now you are looking for a new coach.....who is going to have to agree to play Lynch....

this defense doesn't really scare anybody anymore and the offense is a mess.....the special teams are void of any play makers and for the life of me I can't figure out why they just didn't have Sanders back there returning punts....they would have been better off just telling Sanders to just fair catch everything....

Elway has made a few good picks on D and brought in some solid players on that side of the ball.....but I also think he has gotten a little full of himself since signing Manning. As an opposing fan, I like seeing DEN QB money given to Von.  He is a beast, but I don't think he is impacting a game to the point where you are really getting a solid ROI.  He is making Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady type money but I don't feel he impacts the game the way they do.  I realize he basically single handily delivered a SB to DEN last year so I guess if you want to continue to pay him the money for that, that is fine.  But 13.5 sacks really isn't that special compared to some of the sack seasons and numbers put up by guys before him. For that money he should be at least sniffing 20 a year.  While he played well down the stretch last year, he finished this year with a grand total of ZERO sacks in the last 4 weeks. Yeah teams have to account for him and it changes what they may do, but Von can be game planned out of a game and have very little meaningful impact.

The AFC West will be fun moving forward and it's nice not having DEN kicking everybody butts like they did for awhile with Manning, but there are teams moving in different directions in the AFC West, and it's pretty clear which direction DEN is going.  

 

[moleculo]

Just chiming in with a little reality check from a non homer (KC fan living in CO, so also follow Broncos pretty closely).  I think there is a pretty sizable list of mistakes that where made and many of them by #7. I know Bronco fans will have a hard time questioning his actions and won't want to admit that he may not be as great at this job as he was at playing QB.

1. OZ: granted OZ went to HOU and pretty much stunk up the joint, he is however still playing. Whats funny is that while Elway may look like a genius with how this all shook out, we need not forget that he really had intentions that could have lead to a major #### storm had he kept OZ and he played in Denver like he did in HOU.  Elway misread the market for Oz big time by low balling him at $12 mil, then tried to save the day at the last minute by upping it to $16 mil.  I don't think Oz would have struggled in DEN like he did in HOU but I guess it worked out ok for Elway here even though he had every intention of trying to keep him. People like to say it was getting benched in the SD game that caused some of this, and I think that had something to do with it, but IMO it was the fact that they waited so long for the Manning retirement announcement before really trying to resign OZ. So he got a little snarkier than he would have and didn't play very nice in the sandbox once negotiations did start.  They showed very little committment to OZ so he walked when the situation presented itself. It's hard to say if OZ would have been an upgrade over Siemian/Lynch, but based on what I saw when Oz did play for DEN, I think it's safe to say he wouldn't have done any worse and probably would have been a better option for this team that has a SB window still open with this defense.  Denver probably makes the playoffs with Oz.

2. CJA: Bottom line...Elway swung and missed here too.  Misread the market and ended up having to pay more than he needed to.

3. Oline: has pretty much swung and missed here as well.  Traded away Clady, he has been injured with the Jets so I guess you can say what you want about this move, but can all probably agree that he would have helped this offensive line this year. Pro bowl talent Elway sent packing. He has missed on pretty much every draft pick at this position leading to an offensive line whose best player (Paradis) was so banged up throughout the year he never actually practiced. He swung and missed on both Okung and Stephenson as low priced gap fillers, which is due in part to mega deal for Von and other re-signings including the WR's. This was supposed to be a running team under Kubiak's system but very little was spent on the biggest piece of that system. The draft and impending free agents don't look real promising at this position.

4. DT: getting paid elite WR money with new contract under Elway but not playing like elite WR.  This probably has to be a miss as well as he is not giving DEN a good ROI.  IMO Sanders is the best all around WR on the team but DT is getting paid like it. 

5. Malik: probably had no real chance to sign him, but letting him walk in free agency and not replacing showed this year in a big way.

6. Danny T.: might have been an even bigger loss for the Broncos than Malik all things considered.

7. Colquitt: was an instrumental part of the run last year putting DEN dst in good position. Guess jury is still out on Dixon, but have to think Elway weakened this position as well by trying to save a few bucks. Dixon was a downgrade.

8. QB position: the Sanchez experiment turned out to be a swing and miss. While Siemian showed some toughness I also think he showed that he is not the answer.  He really only had a few good games, and he never really seemed to make the plays when they needed him to.  He was god awful at times. I know must will say he was dinged, etc. and use that as an excuse, but I think even at full strength he is not that good.  Elway also completely misread Lynch with his "he will be ready sooner than most people think" proclamations. He is still a long ways away and he is no Russell Wilson where you can get elite level of play for awhile under a cheap rookie contract while you spend your money elsewhere and load up at other positions.  Many people think Lynch is years away from being ready.  Eventually this defense is going to keep losing pieces like it has already and the elite defense may get wasted waiting for Lynch to "develop".  Curious if Bronco fans really think either of Lynch or Siemian can take this team to a super bowl in say....the next 5 years.  I don't think so. Romo is an immediate upgrade and I wouldn't be surprised if that heats up once DAL is done this year. QB money is now getting deposited in Von's account leaving Elway to try and piece something together here. Unfortunately for DEN, I think Elway is going to be stubborn and really think that Lynch is the answer.  Elway is hanging his hat on this kid and will be expecting/forcing the new coach to play him.  I think he wanted Kub's to do it, but Kub's didn't want too and wasn't going to cause he thought Siemian was and is better.  I think this had a part in Kub's leaving.  I think it was Elway that said, "play the kid part of the last game against OAK" and Kubs agreed and said he would but knew he never really intended to. I think him not playing Lynch was a big middle finger to Elway. 

9. Talib; still amazed he somehow got away without punishment even though he was so drunk he didn't remember shooting himself.  His story which we all really know is a bunch of BS is just laughing in the face of the commish and everybody else.  This guy is a POS and it only took a matter of time for him to infect the locker room and create division between the offense and defense. Manning wasn't there anymore to keep him in his place. This is your leader. 

and now you are looking for a new coach.....who is going to have to agree to play Lynch....

this defense doesn't really scare anybody anymore and the offense is a mess.....the special teams are void of any play makers and for the life of me I can't figure out why they just didn't have Sanders back there returning punts....they would have been better off just telling Sanders to just fair catch everything....

Elway has made a few good picks on D and brought in some solid players on that side of the ball.....but I also think he has gotten a little full of himself since signing Manning. As an opposing fan, I like seeing DEN QB money given to Von.  He is a beast, but I don't think he is impacting a game to the point where you are really getting a solid ROI.  He is making Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady type money but I don't feel he impacts the game the way they do.  I realize he basically single handily delivered a SB to DEN last year so I guess if you want to continue to pay him the money for that, that is fine.  But 13.5 sacks really isn't that special compared to some of the sack seasons and numbers put up by guys before him. For that money he should be at least sniffing 20 a year.  While he played well done the stretch last year, he finished this year with a grand total of ZERO sacks in the last 4 weeks. Yeah teams have to account for him and it changes what they may do, but Von can be game planned out of a game and have very little meaningful impact.

The AFC West will be fun moving forward and it's nice not having DEN kicking everybody butts like they did for awhile with Manning, but there are teams moving in different directions in the AFC West, and it's pretty clear which direction DEN is going.  

1. What would you have had Elway do?  It seemed clear that HOU was going to break the bank for Oz, regardless of what Elway paid him.  I'm not sure what Elway could have realistically done to keep him around without really hampering the cap for years.

2. not really.  Elway allowed CJA to test the market.  CJA found out exactly how much the market was willing to pay, and Elway matched.  Maybe he could have tendered him at a higher level to start with, not sure what the overall difference was.

3. agreed.  the OL has been terrible.  If I'm finding fault, it's for not having veteran back-ups at T G that could fill in for the young guys as needed or more veteran competition at T.  This was the biggest faux pas of the season.

4. DT has been playing hurt all season.  Agreed his contract exceeded his play.  That being said, if you are going to knock Elway for paying DT despite Sanders being the better WR, you have to praise Elway for bringing in Sanders (away from KC, by the way), and then signing him to a second contract.

5. again, not sure what you expect Elway to do when Jacksonville was ready to break the bank.

6. Danny T was always hurt and was hurt again this season.  Great player who we missed, but often injured.

7. Dixon had one of the top rookie punter seasons of the recent past.  Disagree on Colquitt, especially given Colquitts salary.

8. QB play was not the issue this year.  Siemien didn't light it up but he didn't cost us games.

9. much like when we had Romanowski, Talib is a guy I love to have on our side because everyone else hates him.

on Elway - let's remember what this defense looked like when he took over:

2010 Broncos

scoring D: 32nd

yards D: 32nd.

pass D: 25th

run D: 31st

Within 5 years, Elway turned that defense into the best defense in the league, good enough to win a superbowl with a QB tossing interceptions like beads at Mardi Gras.  Elway's job has been much MUCH more than simply signing Peyton Manning.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

1. What would you have had Elway do?  It seemed clear that HOU was going to break the bank for Oz, regardless of what Elway paid him.  I'm not sure what Elway could have realistically done to keep him around without really hampering the cap for years.

2. not really.  Elway allowed CJA to test the market.  CJA found out exactly how much the market was willing to pay, and Elway matched.  Maybe he could have tendered him at a higher level to start with, not sure what the overall difference was.

3. agreed.  the OL has been terrible.  If I'm finding fault, it's for not having veteran back-ups at T G that could fill in for the young guys as needed or more veteran competition at T.  This was the biggest faux pas of the season.

4. DT has been playing hurt all season.  Agreed his contract exceeded his play.  That being said, if you are going to knock Elway for paying DT despite Sanders being the better WR, you have to praise Elway for bringing in Sanders (away from KC, by the way), and then signing him to a second contract.

5. again, not sure what you expect Elway to do when Jacksonville was ready to break the bank.

6. Danny T was always hurt and was hurt again this season.  Great player who we missed, but often injured.

7. Dixon had one of the top rookie punter seasons of the recent past.  Disagree on Colquitt, especially given Colquitts salary.

8. QB play was not the issue this year.  Siemien didn't light it up but he didn't cost us games.

9. much like when we had Romanowski, Talib is a guy I love to have on our side because everyone else hates him.

on Elway - let's remember what this defense looked like when he took over:

2010 Broncos

scoring D: 32nd

yards D: 32nd.

pass D: 25th

run D: 31st

Within 5 years, Elway turned that defense into the best defense in the league, good enough to win a superbowl with a QB tossing interceptions like beads at Mardi Gras.  Elway's job has been much MUCH more than simply signing Peyton Manning.

1. I truly believe if he would have showed a commitment to and acted on Oz much sooner, even as early as while the season was still going on, he could have easily had OZ agree to stay and sign....either way at least don't wait for the Manning announcement....and probably at a figure a little higher than 12 but not as high as the 18 he got from HOU.  I think that was a very realistic scenario. Not handled well timing wise.

2. he paid CJA more than he had to....bottom line....and if you remember, Elway was quick to pull the trigger here on the heels of Brock going to HOU....also think not going ahead and locking CJA down when he could have also sent a message to CJA that they weren't committed to him and thought he was expendable....misplayed from a financial and personal level IMO....call it what you want but the CJA thing was also not handled very well

4. Sanders=good    DT=bad....call it a wash

5. as said....no real chance to sign him but losing him hurt and his production was not replaced....

6. bottom line another good player let walk.....

7. he also had some pretty bad punts at bad times....but I can agree not too much damage here....still think Colquitt was better and overall position weakened

8. disagree completely here....I don't think he is that good and will not lead a team to a SB...as an opposing fan I hope he is your QB for the foreseeable future....please don't get Romo

no worries either way on any of these.....I just wanted to create some discussion and give some points of view not through orange glasses.....but like I said as an opposing fan it's kind of nice to see the arrow pointing down for DEN....

 

[moleculo]

no worries either way on any of these.....I just wanted to create some discussion and give some points of view not through orange glasses.....but like I said as an opposing fan it's kind of nice to see the arrow pointing down for DEN....

when you are at the top, it can only point down. 

2016 was a down year.  Don't get used to it.  The Broncos will enter 2017 with a QB with more than one career snap, a re-tooled OL, and the same defense (minus Ware).  They have virtually no important FA's to address, and plenty of cash to be active in the FA market.  Broncos will be right back in the tick of things next season.

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

1. I truly believe if he would have showed a commitment to and acted on Oz much sooner, even as early as while the season was still going on, he could have easily had OZ agree to stay and sign....either way at least don't wait for the Manning announcement....and probably at a figure a little higher than 12 but not as high as the 18 he got from HOU.  I think that was a very realistic scenario. Not handled well timing wise.

2. he paid CJA more than he had to....bottom line....and if you remember, Elway was quick to pull the trigger here on the heels of Brock going to HOU....also think not going ahead and locking CJA down when he could have also sent a message to CJA that they weren't committed to him and thought he was expendable....misplayed from a financial and personal level IMO....call it what you want but the CJA thing was also not handled very well

4. Sanders=good    DT=bad....call it a wash

5. as said....no real chance to sign him but losing him hurt and his production was not replaced....

6. bottom line another good player let walk.....

7. he also had some pretty bad punts at bad times....but I can agree not too much damage here....still think Colquitt was better and overall position weakened

8. disagree completely here....I don't think he is that good and will not lead a team to a SB...as an opposing fan I hope he is your QB for the foreseeable future....please don't get Romo

no worries either way on any of these.....I just wanted to create some discussion and give some points of view not through orange glasses.....but like I said as an opposing fan it's kind of nice to see the arrow pointing down for DEN....

 

[thatguy]

I disagree with a lot of what you said  ref but a lot of what you said also is very true. Much better post than your previous ones with which seemed a bit inflammatory.

 

[thatguy]

However I think you're being pretty unrealistic when you fault him for things like letting Trevathan and Jackson go (even Colquitt for that matter,  who was great down the stretch in 2015 and particularly the playoffs, but was atrocious through the first half of the season). Why do you think Elway them go? It's not like he didn't want to keep them. He simply couldn't. They were commanding a lot of money and rightfully so or in Colquitt's case,  due a lot of money. That's because Elway drafted them in later rounds and his coaching staff developed them into top-notch players. You can't keep everyone especially when you're on top and especially when you're that good at developing late-round picks. I will say that I always felt trevathan was more important to the defense than Marshall and I would have preferred they let Marshall walk and kept trevathan. However I kind of got the feeling that trevathan had his mind set on reuniting with Fox no matter what.

 

[thatguy]

I do agree with what you said about his mishandling of the CJ situation and the Brock situation. I also believe they probably could have locked Malik down in the preseason for a much more reasonable contract but they really didn't know what they had in him then. 2015 was the first year that he played at an elite level. Prior to then he showed flashes but was very inconsistent.

 

[thatguy]

I suppose you could say had they not resigned Von they could have kept everyone but all the goodwill that he had built up with the fan base would have been lost at that point. Furthermore everything happened so fast that they would have to have committed to letting Von walk extremely early in the process  and that just was never going to happen. And numbers aside Von is worth every penny, especially when you're not paying a quarterback "quarterback money." Oh and by the way aren't the Chiefs paying Justin Houston, a guy who is injured more often than not, borderline quarterback money too?