What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Moritz Böhringer, WR Bengals - Taming the Stripes like Sigfried and Roy! (2 Viewers)

They don't, that's the problem. There best is probably the equal of a top US high school squad. The guy has faced nobody, he will never be even a fringe pro.
They do.

Germany was the most supportive of NFLE. When NFLE folded, the last moves of franchises were to there and they did OK. I think London was the only other with good attendance stats. NFL teams make money 'all over' and not just on ticket sales at all. NFLE tried to live off ticket sales where merch and endorsements and everything just never took off like they wanted.

We've seen about one German a year enter the NFL recently. I don't think its that surprising. We brought the game to them, some kids liked it, developed, and ten some odd years later there's some players.

This is an all-time list, some are old, some are "army brats" but here's NFL players from Germany http://www.databasefootball.com/players/bycountry.htm?code=GER

 
When FF started gaining popularity in the 80's a lot of leagues were 16 teamers

with TD only scoring. The internet changed a lot of how FF is done.

 
Hey, you're right. As everyone is all to eager to point out, I've been on these forums for about 15 minutes.(on a side note I anxiously await my email notification telling me I have enough posts to be one of the gang.) Guess only time will tell if I'll own my hits and misses come next season. 
Just saying you haven't built up a "rep" on these boards to use the "check my record" angle. 

Either build that rep first, then point to it, or don't use it as some kind of argument on your behalf.  If you try to use a "rep" that doesn't exist, you're not going to get very far with that.

 
Playing in a league like that seems dumb. No offense. 
None taken at all.  I totally understand that it is not a league for everyone (it is also IDP which is also not for everyone).   But honestly, it is what makes these kinds of threads really useful probably to a minority of people.   There are enough in leagues like that who really find this sort of thing useful.   Once in a while you even find guys who end up being playable in a league like that, though they would not be in a typical format.  Posts like this are not for the 90% but the 10% can really appreciate them.

 
Just saying you haven't built up a "rep" on these boards to use the "check my record" angle. 

Either build that rep first, then point to it, or don't use it as some kind of argument on your behalf.  If you try to use a "rep" that doesn't exist, you're not going to get very far with that.
I'm not looking to get far, or build a rep on an anonymous fantasy site. I'll make my opinions known and either be proven right or wrong just like everyone else. All I'm saying is I'm not afraid of being wrong like a lot of guys on forums like this who run their mouths like crazy in the summer and are nowhere to be found come game time. 

 
None taken at all.  I totally understand that it is not a league for everyone (it is also IDP which is also not for everyone).   But honestly, it is what makes these kinds of threads really useful probably to a minority of people.   There are enough in leagues like that who really find this sort of thing useful.   Once in a while you even find guys who end up being playable in a league like that, though they would not be in a typical format.  Posts like this are not for the 90% but the 10% can really appreciate them.
If you are in a league where you are forced to research a friggin German prospect and then potentially draft him then I want to be as far away from something like that as humanly possible.  That makes zero sense to me, way too time consuming and just seems like a bore in general.  But as they say diff'rent strokes......

I like the redraft angle, boom you go in and you go out.  Fast, easy.  I think the simplistic nature is something as well that is causing the swell of interest in draft kings etc.  What you guys seem to be doing is way too labor intensive and over the top. 

 
If you are in a league where you are forced to research a friggin German prospect and then potentially draft him then I want to be as far away from something like that as humanly possible.  That makes zero sense to me, way too time consuming and just seems like a bore in general.  But as they say diff'rent strokes......

I like the redraft angle, boom you go in and you go out.  Fast, easy.  I think the simplistic nature is something as well that is causing the swell of interest in draft kings etc.  What you guys seem to be doing is way too labor intensive and over the top. 




 
And I definitely think you are in that majority.   Those of us dorks in the minority love this stuff.  :-)

 
The nba in the 90s had a few European players, vlade divac is about the only name I can think of. Now there are, well, tons. I understand that the European bball leagues are better than whatever euro-football league exists, and I'm sure there are a hundred German players that would like to see you on the field for comparing it to high school ball. 
You seem to have forgotten about Drazen Petrovic in Vlade's day.

A lot of these areas where football is minor, rugby is a big deal. There's enough similarity to giving and taking hits that could make them a nice project at a lower level. For a long time, for me, it was that NFLers have been playing for so long and some project is just going to show up and do well?

Then I noticed some RBs and WRs and...if we're talking speed and catching, OK I guess so. 

I remember Carl Lewis for the Cowboys. You'd think he could beat anyone deep, but he couldn't. Closing time, anticipation of the DB etc he wasn't wide open all the time. He couldn't catch well either. It's a fun try though. There's been a few track stars that became KR. 

In hoops you have positioning and getting banged around underneath so I can see the TE transition some. If it were me, I'd always bring some basketball guys into rookie mini camp every year. TC is 2-3 months later, you'll know if it's worth your time. There aren't all that many athletic 6-4 275 lb guys in America that can catch. Most NFL players can not do what TEs do. They can't catch the ball with guys draped all over them AND knowing a hit is coming. If these guys can move fluid enough in hoops traffic and catch n pivot, they might be able to be a TE. Some NFL TEs do use a variation of a box out the last second before they catch it. 

Giants had a guy Jai Thomas? Forget his name, from George Mason five or so years ago. He was a four in hoops and sometimes C. He caught the ball well day one. He was horrible at the line and couldn't block at all. He couldn't shake off hits. If he caught it and absorbed a big hit, the next play he was shaken. Football wasn't for him but he may have had the ability.

I think the NFL is littered with TEs that can't catch it in traffic. There's a top 8? or so that do it beautifully and the rest are unimpressive. They can run routes from the LOS and catch the ball, but they're not beasting like Gronk, they're not catching it with three guys around or any of that. They still have some value in the way that they may be blocking or going for a pass but, I don't think there's all that many that can catch it in traffic.

The handsize stuff that we discuss with QBs. I always wonder why they don't do that with hoops players converting. Once Dr. J caught the ball one-handed 30-40 years ago, every one has tried since. Some hoops players can grab the ball and their huge mitts make it looks like a softball. Those few- I wanna see them try and catch a football with those huge hands. Most of the time I have a silly notion like that is because I'm frustrated with drops in the NFL. Being raised on "if it touches your hands, you'd better catch it" some of these WRs drive me nuts. 

I think we're looking at best at an average NFL WR. No project is going to run routes like Rice or Fitz. I think that takes too much time to learn and focus upon.

I've never understood why some of these super athletes(again I'm old, like Daryl Strawberry) from baseball can't play S in the NFL. They are an outfielder in the NFL. Have you ever tried to pick a baseball out of the sky after a 90mph ball is hit? I have little doubt they can catch an INT with some practice. Well-coached D in hoops(which is sadly uncommon) would have some of these guys with the elementary concepts to be a DB. A great basketball player, Strawberry could have played any sport IMO. 

I think though it still comes back to these NFLers have been playing their whole life and this game is at such a fast speed, 95+% of projects can't just jump in and play. 

DGB was mentioned earlier. It's about his brain and the speed of the game and it's complexity. You can tell he's been well coached at Missou and OU. He grasped things with TEN. Applying them, the first half of season especially, he'd be a step slow or have this "aww rats" look on his face where you could see he knew it, but goofed. The second half of the year, he was getting better by the week. You can't give experience. I think he's been coached as well as can be, trained as well as can be, and is built as well as can be, but he needs experience. Titans gotta totally go after him in camp. Trade CBs on him when one guy is tired and just push push push him. It's there, everything is there. Watch him run a short route, he plants his foot and swivels beautifully. We didn't see that on college film. He just looked like a man amongst boys. A few deep balls he outran and didn't even turn his head, duh. A few he should have stopped and leaped for. There's so many little things that geesh if you could just give this guy experience he'd be a top NFL WR. Bottom-line though he has been very well drilled. IMO that's why with experience, he'll dominate. If he takes too long to learn and doesn't grasp it til he's 29, he might dominate in a YMCA league but...

 
petekrum said:
I'm not looking to get far, or build a rep on an anonymous fantasy site. I'll make my opinions known and either be proven right or wrong just like everyone else. All I'm saying is I'm not afraid of being wrong like a lot of guys on forums like this who run their mouths like crazy in the summer and are nowhere to be found come game time. 
Really?  Is that why you picked an incredibly obscure player to "make your opinion" known on? 

It seems like you'd make your opinions known on more established players.  It isn't that big of a bet to say a possible late-round draft pick (if drafted at all) won't be a FF force.

As far as being "nowhere to be found come game time," we don't know that yet, do we?

 
petekrum said:
I respect that, but does that in turn mean I have to jump on the bandwagon? 
No, but acting like you know something no one else does while pretending everyone is going ga ga over some longshot prospect is disingenuous and unproductive.

 
No , no, no. I said if everything went perfectly he MIGHT be one of the last guys on the roster. I was giving you boys the benefit of the doubt, as I think he has no shot.

Lets reduce it down to this gentlemen. Most of you on here think he is an interesting physical freak prospect that you are looking to stash away in the hope that maybe someday he pans out. I maintain he doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell of ever doing anything. Can we leave it at that?
Sure we can leave it at that,  your opinion is clear and I don't have an opinion (yet). I'll reserve mine until after the draft and pre-season.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Desperately rooting for him, just so I can use my bad German accent with my boys during games.  

Moritz drops a ball:  Vass is Dis?

Moritz gets open for a deep pass:  Achtung!!  Nein!!

I know what you're thinking, not that funny.  Trust me, it'll kill. 

 
Can this guy run routes?  The highlights show him running against CBs with little/no skills and none of his routes were crisp or involved him stopping or turning quickly.  It was more, ok, I'm fast, he's not, I'll gradually turn and just outrun him over and over.  That won't work in the NFL.

 
Can this guy run routes?  The highlights show him running against CBs with little/no skills and none of his routes were crisp or involved him stopping or turning quickly.  It was more, ok, I'm fast, he's not, I'll gradually turn and just outrun him over and over.  That won't work in the NFL.
This is a big concern with many great athletes playing substandard competition. Those defenders looked like D3 college players. 

 
Can this guy run routes?  The highlights show him running against CBs with little/no skills and none of his routes were crisp or involved him stopping or turning quickly.  It was more, ok, I'm fast, he's not, I'll gradually turn and just outrun him over and over.  That won't work in the NFL.
Those highlights didn't tell much.  I don't think he's really a draftable guy.

He's just an athlete.  Same as Odell Beckham's brother, and a dozen other basketball players that thought they could be Antonio Gates.  Someone will sign him as a free agent, for sure, but drafting a guy strictly on measureables?   Even for a 7th rounder, not worth it.  

 
Can this guy run routes?  The highlights show him running against CBs with little/no skills and none of his routes were crisp or involved him stopping or turning quickly.  It was more, ok, I'm fast, he's not, I'll gradually turn and just outrun him over and over.  That won't work in the NFL.
Honestly, just ignore the highlights with this guy. From the sound of it, the pro-day went well enough that he's having visits/workouts with a bunch of teams. The biggest question is whether he can learn what he needs to learn to turn his great "combine numbers" into being an NFL receiver. I think the biggest plus for him is that he is 22 and coming from football, i.e. not an older athlete coming from another sport. The players that seemed to be successful at making a transition are young guys, i.e like Gates coming out of college, not guys like Jarryd Hane who is already in his late 20s and experienced in another sport. If he was 24/25, then I would think his lack of experience would make him not worth a pick and teams wouldn't be lining him up for visits.

That said, I am not overly optimistic, but I think there is a chance because he's young.

 
Those highlights didn't tell much.  I don't think he's really a draftable guy.

He's just an athlete.  Same as Odell Beckham's brother, and a dozen other basketball players that thought they could be Antonio Gates.  Someone will sign him as a free agent, for sure, but drafting a guy strictly on measureables?   Even for a 7th rounder, not worth it.  
I'm sure the teams that are bringing him in for visits are coaching him up and seeing how receptive he is to coaching. He's obviously never had to run crisp routes but that isn't to say he can't learn. If he proves and quick learner in limited sessions with teams I could see a team taking a chance with him in the sixth or seventh round.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Those highlights didn't tell much.  I don't think he's really a draftable guy.

He's just an athlete.  Same as Odell Beckham's brother, and a dozen other basketball players that thought they could be Antonio Gates.  Someone will sign him as a free agent, for sure, but drafting a guy strictly on measureables?   Even for a 7th rounder, not worth it.  
How did any of those guys do at a pro-day? I thought what I read was that he did well at the pro-day, enough so that teams setup visits. IMHO, that is where the difference may be with those other guys. If he was strictly measurables and his pro-day was really raw, then yeah no chance he gets drafted. Let's still be honest, 6th and 7th rounders are still a crap shoot to even make a team, but if what I read about his pro-day is correct and any of those visits go well, I could easily see him drafted in the 7th.

 
How did any of those guys do at a pro-day? I thought what I read was that he did well at the pro-day, enough so that teams setup visits. IMHO, that is where the difference may be with those other guys. If he was strictly measurables and his pro-day was really raw, then yeah no chance he gets drafted. Let's still be honest, 6th and 7th rounders are still a crap shoot to even make a team, but if what I read about his pro-day is correct and any of those visits go well, I could easily see him drafted in the 7th.
He had a nice Pro Day?  Well, join the club, they all have nice pro days.  

If you list off all the freak athletes that we hear about before the draft that came out of nowhere, you don't have a very impressive list of NFL players.  Every year there's some basketball player or small school defensive tackle that tests outrageously.  Some cornerback runs a 4.28, and is 6'.  

Almost all fail.  NFL teams aren't coaching people up.  They need guys that can help them win this year.  Players develop on their own.  Is this a massive generalization?  Yes.  There are always exceptions.

But teams only have a few draft picks.  When is this guy getting coached up?  In training camp, some.  During the season?  No.  There's no teaching going on during the season.  

He might get drafted, I just hope it's not my team that drafts him.  

 
I will say this, for his size, he has some good acceleration.

If he somehow played D1 ball, this would be the Mike Mamula/Matt Jones(Jax) prospect at the combine....

As for German football, they get a lot of D2 and fringe D 1 guys  from the states  playing over there in their Pro Leagues.   I know as I was one of them.

The kids he is playing against look like they are high school kids, and devoid of talent, and proper angles, but that's what I like about MOBO......his getoff does take away angles.

I will be rooting for him.

Yes, MOBO is his new nickname....:)

 
Can this guy run routes?  The highlights show him running against CBs with little/no skills and none of his routes were crisp or involved him stopping or turning quickly.  It was more, ok, I'm fast, he's not, I'll gradually turn and just outrun him over and over.  That won't work in the NFL.
Golf clap.

 
Really?  Is that why you picked an incredibly obscure player to "make your opinion" known on? 

It seems like you'd make your opinions known on more established players.  It isn't that big of a bet to say a possible late-round draft pick (if drafted at all) won't be a FF force.

As far as being "nowhere to be found come game time," we don't know that yet, do we?
If you'd like to leave me a list of players you would like my opinion on I would be more than happy to do so.

 
He had a nice Pro Day?  Well, join the club, they all have nice pro days.  

If you list off all the freak athletes that we hear about before the draft that came out of nowhere, you don't have a very impressive list of NFL players.  Every year there's some basketball player or small school defensive tackle that tests outrageously.  Some cornerback runs a 4.28, and is 6'.  

Almost all fail.  NFL teams aren't coaching people up.  They need guys that can help them win this year.  Players develop on their own.  Is this a massive generalization?  Yes.  There are always exceptions.

But teams only have a few draft picks.  When is this guy getting coached up?  In training camp, some.  During the season?  No.  There's no teaching going on during the season.  

He might get drafted, I just hope it's not my team that drafts him.  
No they don't. The articles we read have 3 things in them: 1 guys already going to be drafted/ranked who do well, 2 guys already going to be drafted/ranked who do poorly (Treadwell comes to mind with his slow for even a pro-day) and 3 guys who weren't on the radar who have solid pro days. The 4th group of guys who weren't on the radar who have poor pro days get no media attention and you never hear about them. Yes, what you read about seems all fluff with some spotty under performances, but not everyone has a good enough pro day.

Unfortunately, I have boundless optimism by saying that he might get selected at the end of the draft, but I guess I do. Your examples there remind me of Mike Mamula, Matt Jones and Byron Jones, but those guys all went from being on the radar already to much higher picks. Those guys aren't really in the same boat as this guy. If he got no interest at all from teams for visits and no news that he appeared to pick up things well/caught well, then I'd agree with you that he is just an athletic freak who won't translate. Do I think he will be fantasy relevant? No, but do I think someone will take a chance on him? Yes.

 
You just don't get it. Every year, someone like you makes this post. Nobody is looking to draft these guys with their 1st round redraft pick. Nobody is even likely picking him in a redraft. People are looking for guys to use their late 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round dynasty picks on. Yeah, you'll miss on 90% of these guys. But 90% of the guys you pick at those spots will be off your roster by the end of the year anyway. Why not at least look at a guy with the athletic ability to make a fantasy difference if he ever learns the football skills? If you don't look, you'll miss out on Gates, Graham, David Johnson, and others.
Hey, draft away, don't let me stop you. I'm just telling you you're wasting your time. Amazing how upset you people get when someone decides not to goose step to your way of thinking.

ps. Let's be real and not put this guy with Gates, Graham and DJ.
What part of FF is not a waste of time?

Do you play dynasty at all or just redraft? It's not meant to be condescending, but it would explain your strong opinion.

 
The German Christine Michael hype train in full hype mode, choo choo!
From German fantasy football board:

Why don't they throw to Boehringer every play?!?  If they threw him the ball, he would average 91.44 metres per game easy!!  What is this coach thinking??  DUMMKOPF!!!

.........I'm holding.  Someone offered me Helmut Koester, Ludwig Weinershnitzel, Ernst Krüger, and a 2016 3rd rounder.  I laughed in his face.  

 
What part of FF is not a waste of time?

Do you play dynasty at all or just redraft? It's not meant to be condescending, but it would explain your strong opinion.
I play both, and as I stated earlier maybe it's just that we have a three round rookie draft or benches that don't go 30 deep, but in my leagues, a guy that's this big of a long shot is a waste of time. I can guarantee he will go undrafted in all my rookie drafts. 

 
petekrum said:
I play both, and as I stated earlier maybe it's just that we have a three round rookie draft or benches that don't go 30 deep, but in my leagues, a guy that's this big of a long shot is a waste of time. I can guarantee he will go undrafted in all my rookie drafts. 
Well we figured it out. You play some sort of awful dynasty format where prospects are worthless because you can't roster them.

Wtf is the point of a dynasty league if you have short benches?

 
massraider said:
Who would win in a race--Boehringer, or a greyhound?  Hang on, the greyhound's name is:  Ditka.  
Easily it would be Greyhound Ditka who would in turn be lapped by mini Ditka and Coach Ditka who is giving Chuck Norris a piggyback.

 
Run It Up said:
Well we figured it out. You play some sort of awful dynasty format where prospects are worthless because you can't roster them.

Wtf is the point of a dynasty league if you have short benches?
Wow, judge much? Must have a nice view up on that high horse. We don't play with short benches but they certainly aren't deep enough to roster every mutt that you and the gang deem a prospect. See we play in a dynasty format where we don't roster worthless prospects.

 
Wow, judge much? Must have a nice view up on that high horse. We don't play with short benches but they certainly aren't deep enough to roster every mutt that you and the gang deem a prospect. See we play in a dynasty format where we don't roster worthless prospects.
Its not every prospect, its every prospect divided among 12+ teams, thats a lot of players...

At a certain point the tiers merge and become irrelevant, at that point all that matters is upside. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
In my dynasty league with 20 man rosters and a 4 round rookie/FA draft he
won't get drafted. In another league with a 7 round rookie/FA draft some one
will take a shot. There will be guys in both leagues watching him though.

 
It's not whether we will draft him. It's just interesting to watch. If you haven't understood the impetus for our interest by now then stop checking into a thread for a player you deem completely worthless. 

 
My two main leagues are the equivalent of 30. One has a 4 round the other a 5. He will be drafted in both.

 
There's probably a 95% chance you're right pete.

The problem is that you're saying there's a 100% chance you're right.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top