Biden Voters, do you regret your vote for Biden? (1 Viewer)

[lazyike]

I won't vote for Biden again unless his opponent is Trump in which case I may get a speeding ticket heading to the polls voting for Biden. I also will vote for Biden over any Republican candidate who:

   -claims Trump won

   -was a strong opponent of masks and the Covid vaccines

  -claims climate change is a hoax

 - didn't vote to impeach or convict Trump (obviously excludes those not in Congress)

 

[Philo Beddoe]

I don't think we're in real serious disagreement here. The major problem is they cried that the sky was falling since 1960 and now it actually might be. 

Good point 

 

[Philo Beddoe]

No...they really wouldn't have.  Though, they would have been attacked by Trump in the primary for sure...and his base.  Just like some still do go after them.

Romney wasn’t attacked relentlessly when her ran in 2012 based off lies and innuendo from Harry Reid that he didn’t pay any taxes for 4 years even though WaPo at the time confirmed it was false? You’re going to gaslight us and tell us it never happened? 

 

[ekbeats]

The company primarily responsible for the shortage disagrees with you.   Because, well, facts.  You've still not identified a single thing the administration did wrong.

I wasn't asked to identify what the Administration did wrong.  I was responding to your assertion that this was Trump's fault.  But since you asked in your usual pleasant manner, I'll tell you exactly what the Biden Administration did wrong.

1. The first baby sickened by Cronobacter was in Minnesota all the way back in September.  The Minnesota DOH investigated it immediately and within days determined that the formula originated from the Abbott facility in Sturgis, MI.  They reported this to the Biden Administration (through the FDA) in SEPTEMBER.

2. Coincidentally, that very same week in September, the FDA conducted a 5 day routine inspection of the plant for the first time in 2 years. The FDA's normal procedure is to inspect the plants every year, but due to Covid the agency temporarily stopped doing inspections it didn’t deem “mission critical”.  I guess the health of babies isn't all that critical.  It's obvious that the FDA didn't make the inspectors aware of the Minnesota issue as it should have.  The report identified sanitation problems, but failed to address a lot of things that that the subsequent inspection focused on.

3. A few weeks later on October 19, the FDA received a 34 page document from a whistleblower outlining allegations of lax cleaning practices, purposely falsified records, and efforts by plant officials to keep the FDA from learning about serious issues related to the plant’s own system for checking for bacteria in formula.  Hard copies of the disclosure were sent via FedEx to senior food safety officials and other leaders at FDA. They included FDA’s top official, then-acting Commissioner Janet Woodcock, Susan Mayne, director of the Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition, Judy McMeekin, associate commissioner for Regulatory Affairs and Catherine Hermsen, assistant commissioner of the agency’s Office of Criminal Investigations.

4. Despite all of the above, the FDA didn't interview the whistleblower until December, didn’t inspect the plant until Jan. 31, and the Formula wasn't recalled until Feb. 17.  During this time 4 additional infants were hospitalized and 2 died.

I could go on and on, but I have to mow the grass.  The FDA clearly mishandled this, and they will get skewered for it in the coming months after all the investigations.  As for Biden specifically, everything he has done in last few days to help mitigate shortages could have been done all the way back in February, maybe even sooner.

 

[Juxtatarot]

while maybe not regretting the vote for Biden (and the win) everyone can regret how incredible bad this country has been under his Administration

that we can 100% agree on I'd think

I think we’re mostly the same country.

 

[FairWarning]

Abbot recalled their product and shut their plant down.   That caused an immediate shortage.  Because of the trade policies in place, we were importing zero from Canada at the time. 

The administration reversed those policies, invoked the DPA and purchased from Europe.   What did they do wrong, again?

Snoozed.  There had been talk about shortages for awhile.  What did the FDA do besides call their bluff?  If there are fed contracts and they are buying for the southern border, where did they think it was coming from?

 

[Stealthycat]

I think we’re mostly the same country.

with a much more open southern border, higher crime, 300 thousand more dead with covid, 4-5 trillion more in debt, record oil, record inflation, stock market tanking ....

mostly isn't the word I'd use

 

[-fish-]

I wasn't asked to identify what the Administration did wrong.  I was responding to your assertion that this was Trump's fault.  But since you asked in your usual pleasant manner, I'll tell you exactly what the Biden Administration did wrong.

1. The first baby sickened by Cronobacter was in Minnesota all the way back in September.  The Minnesota DOH investigated it immediately and within days determined that the formula originated from the Abbott facility in Sturgis, MI.  They reported this to the Biden Administration (through the FDA) in SEPTEMBER.

2. Coincidentally, that very same week in September, the FDA conducted a 5 day routine inspection of the plant for the first time in 2 years. The FDA's normal procedure is to inspect the plants every year, but due to Covid the agency temporarily stopped doing inspections it didn’t deem “mission critical”.  I guess the health of babies isn't all that critical.  It's obvious that the FDA didn't make the inspectors aware of the Minnesota issue as it should have.  The report identified sanitation problems, but failed to address a lot of things that that the subsequent inspection focused on.

3. A few weeks later on October 19, the FDA received a 34 page document from a whistleblower outlining allegations of lax cleaning practices, purposely falsified records, and efforts by plant officials to keep the FDA from learning about serious issues related to the plant’s own system for checking for bacteria in formula.  Hard copies of the disclosure were sent via FedEx to senior food safety officials and other leaders at FDA. They included FDA’s top official, then-acting Commissioner Janet Woodcock, Susan Mayne, director of the Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition, Judy McMeekin, associate commissioner for Regulatory Affairs and Catherine Hermsen, assistant commissioner of the agency’s Office of Criminal Investigations.

4. Despite all of the above, the FDA didn't interview the whistleblower until December, didn’t inspect the plant until Jan. 31, and the Formula wasn't recalled until Feb. 17.  During this time 4 additional infants were hospitalized and 2 died.

I could go on and on, but I have to mow the grass.  The FDA clearly mishandled this, and they will get skewered for it in the coming months after all the investigations.  As for Biden specifically, everything he has done in last few days to help mitigate shortages could have been done all the way back in February, maybe even sooner.

None of that supports your claim that the administration was somehow responsible for the shortages or handled them poorly.   Another swing and a miss.   

 

[Terminalxylem]

I see TDS is strong here.  

You will never get reasonable discussion when you preface your post with this type of language.

”TDS” implies a rational person cannot reject Trump. There are plenty of rational people who have concluded otherwise, myself included.

So rather than derailing your point with an inane insult, build the case why you believe Trump would’ve done better.

 

[ekbeats]

None of that supports your claim that the administration was somehow responsible for the shortages or handled them poorly.   Another swing and a miss.   

https://youtu.be/Dx32b5igLwA

 

[KarmaPolice]

By the way, as others have pointed out, this poll was a bit flawed from the start.  I should know because I’ve created a few of these myself.

I voted that I regretted my vote, but that’s really not the case.  I am more disappointed than regretful. I really did think Biden would be the right man at the right time to help calm things down and bring the country together.  He ran as a moderate but he’s been far to the left of that.  Feels like a bait and switch.

His Presidency has been a failure thus far, and I don’t see how one could look at the objective results and conclude otherwise.  Larry Summers and others warned him last year that his $1.9 trillion America Rescue Plan would worsen the already emerging inflation, and we know a year later that this is exactly what happened.  So he worsened inflation, botched the Afghanistan withdrawal, and despite having ample time to resolve this baby formula issue, he missed it completely.

Poor execution is one thing, but it’s his leadership failures that have disappointed me most.  He’s been way more negative and divisive that I ever imagined he would be. If we didn’t have Trump so close in the rearview mirror, I think people would see this more clearly.  What bothers me most is the complete lack of accountability within his Administration. It’s nothing but the blame game, and usually directed at the prior President.  A good leader admits mistakes and then goes about correcting them.  His crankiness and cognitive decline are a problem, but obviously outside of his control.  I saw this for years with my Dad, and it’s painfully obvious that what I’m seeing with Joe Biden is a man in the early to mid stages of dementia.  It saddens me to see this, and angers me to no end when Fox shows clips of it or jokes about it.

Having said all that, I really don’t regret my vote for Biden one bit, because the alternative was horrendous.  Trump just wasn’t an option for me in 2020.  I liked this policies but hated his personality and his leadership style. He destroyed the image of an office that is way too important, not only to us but the entire world.  There was a group of people who voted for Trump in 2016, then pinched their nose and voted for Biden in 2020.  And in a recent poll that should scare the crap out of Democrats, only 3 out of 10 people in this group would vote for Biden again in 2024.  As for me, I am one of the 3 in 10 .  If Trump is the Republican nominee in 2024, I will vote for whoever is on the Democratic ticket, including Biden.

But I stick by my prediction that I’ve made in here several times - Trump will not be the Republican nominee in 2024.  He’s a side show at the moment, entertaining and mildly amusing, but I think most Republicans know deep down that January 6th disqualifies him from the main stage.

It will either be DeSantis, Pence, or Haley.  I hope it is Haley or Pence.  I’ve said this before in here, but every time America has faced an existential crisis, a transformative leader has emerged to save the country.  The person most equipped to be that savior is Nikki Haley. If you look back at the crisis she faced as governor with the racial shooting at the church in South Carolina, she did a tremendous job bringing people together.  I just wish more people recognize this high upside.

Good post ek - I agree with a lot, especially all but the last bolded.   Your point about him destroying the image of the POTUS is spot on.   I think it was Phil that took the shot that people hated on Trump even before he took office.  Well, yeah - IMO that point was on full display for years and many people realized that he wouldn't stop being himself and actually act presidential if elected and we were all proven correct.  

I really hope he is not on the ticket again and you and BR are right.  Being in WI was the reason I didn't vote 3rd party, and I really don't want or plan to do that again.  But if that's the choice again, it will for sure be another struggle for how to vote for me.   As far as the last bolded, again I hope you are right, but my confidence that you are for sure isn't strengthened reading posts around here, and hearing politicians still dance around answering honestly about 1/6.   It really is bizarre.  

I keep saying this, but I need to read up on Haley as she has been brought up numerous times.   IMO DeSantis is too much like DJT for my liking.  We definitely need an influx of fresh meat and ideas into our system.  

 

[ekbeats]

Good post ek - I agree with a lot, especially all but the last bolded.   Your point about him destroying the image of the POTUS is spot on.   I think it was Phil that took the shot that people hated on Trump even before he took office.  Well, yeah - IMO that point was on full display for years and many people realized that he wouldn't stop being himself and actually act presidential if elected and we were all proven correct.  

This is a very good point - me and many others should have seen that Trump's bad behavior wouldn't change if he won the Presidency.  I've been introspective about that for a while now, and I still feel pretty crappy about it.  Lesson learned.  Old dogs can't change their spots, and a leopard can't learn new tricks.

 

[ekbeats]

Snoozed.  There had been talk about shortages for awhile.  What did the FDA do besides call their bluff?  If there are fed contracts and they are buying for the southern border, where did they think it was coming from?

I don't think people are fully aware yet just how badly this was handled by the FDA.  I encourage people to read my post and look into it further.  THAT should be the real story here.

 

[timschochet]

As for Biden specifically, everything he has done in last few days to help mitigate shortages could have been done all the way back in February, maybe even sooner.

I think that,  in a vacuum, this is a reasonable criticism. But the problem is that it applies to every President I can think of: Trump with Covid. Bush with Hurricane Katrina. And so many other instances when our government could have or should have been more prepared, could have or should have acted much sooner. 
I think we would all like our government to act with more competence, more quickly. But the fact is they rarely do, and to single out Biden as a particular offender seems unfair and partisan based. 

 

[efactor]

You will never get reasonable discussion when you preface your post with this type of language.

”TDS” implies a rational person cannot reject Trump. There are plenty of rational people who have concluded otherwise, myself included.

So rather than derailing your point with an inane insult, build the case why you believe Trump would’ve done better.

Hurry to your safe spot.  Quickly.  

 

[KarmaPolice]

This is a very good point - me and many others should have seen that Trump's bad behavior wouldn't change if he won the Presidency.  I've been introspective about that for a while now, and I still feel pretty crappy about it.  Lesson learned.  Old dogs can't change their spots, and a leopard can't learn new tricks.

One of the things that I was reflecting on over those 4 years was what I thought of that position of office, and how I thought of previous POTUSs.   Specifically, how I spoke of and thought of GWB.  A president who I disagreed with a lot of their actions and policies, but reflecting back - at no point would I say he wasn't presidential or took that position seriously.   Regret that I didn't at least appreciate that more or that under his watch we were at least still able to unify under tragedy as a country.   It's really sad how low the bar is now for POTUS.  

 

[BladeRunner]

I don't think people are fully aware yet just how badly this was handled by the FDA.  I encourage people to read my post and look into it further.  THAT should be the real story here.

But I thought it was all Trump's fault?  He should've known there would have been a war in Ukraine and that Baby Formula Company was going to have a recall. 

Of course, in advancing the above smoke screen, no one is asking why The Biden Administration sat on it this entire time knowing all of this.  If they're wondering why Trump didn't know the future why can't we ask the same question of the current POTUS?

 

[rockaction]

I think we would all like our government to act with more competence, more quickly

I think regulatory agencies bear the burden of the blame here. FEMA with Katrina. The SEC with Bush and Obama and the financial crisis. The WHO, CDC, and FDA with COVID. Now the FDA with baby formula. It seems like bureaucrats and experts making decisions with a slavish response to procedure and protocol is a large part of the problem. Blaming the executive seems like a cheap political jab when it happens, but the truth is that the executive branch oversees these agencies. The buck ends with the executive branch. 

I don't particularly get worked up about President Biden and his efficacy regarding baby formula nor do I worry about where the buck stops. What I do question is the structure and oversight of the agencies in question. I think we have ossified and unwieldy bureaucracies in America right now. To paraphrase Fukuyama, the people don't care if the power is derived from the legislature or the executive, they just want government that works. In our century, we've seen the legislature pass the solutions to problems to the executive agencies, who then botch the implementation of any solution to a problem. 

That's the problem. It's that the agencies tasked with solving the problems don't work. 

 

[Terminalxylem]

Hurry to your safe spot.  Quickly.  

Ok, at least I know you weren’t interested in civil discussion. I’m gonna go scale a safe cliff.

 

[FairWarning]

I think that,  in a vacuum, this is a reasonable criticism. But the problem is that it applies to every President I can think of: Trump with Covid. Bush with Hurricane Katrina. And so many other instances when our government could have or should have been more prepared, could have or should have acted much sooner. 
I think we would all like our government to act with more competence, more quickly. But the fact is they rarely do, and to single out Biden as a particular offender seems unfair and partisan based. 

The thing with trump and the vax is they ended up with a vax, and a lot of the politicians from the left said to avoid it.  It’s a mess.  If I’m wrong on this, let me know.

 

[sho nuff]

Romney wasn’t attacked relentlessly when her ran in 2012 based off lies and innuendo from Harry Reid that he didn’t pay any taxes for 4 years even though WaPo at the time confirmed it was false? You’re going to gaslight us and tell us it never happened? 

And that seems in line with any campaign (similar to the swift boat stuff with Kerry)…not compared to how Trump was attacked.  Because Trump should be the outlier.  You had claimed it would be just like Trump and I highly disagree.

 

[efactor]

The thing with trump and the vax is they ended up with a vax, and a lot of the politicians from the left said to avoid it.  It’s a mess.  If I’m wrong on this, let me know.

Yeah, videotape doesn't go away.  VP Harris saying she wouldn't trust a vaccine that Trump pushed through.  

A sensible person would question that.  What does it matter who provided the vaccine?  Does it work?  She didn't question if the vaccine was effective, just that Trump made it happen when the narrative was it would take years to develop a vaccine.

Then when the Biden administration was sworn in, it was basically anyone who questioned the vaccine was chastised and cancelled.  An enemy of the state.  Get both vaccines and a booster or potentially lose your job, your place in the military, your right to go to college.  How can you not see the hypocrisy? 

 

[sho nuff]

The thing with trump and the vax is they ended up with a vax, and a lot of the politicians from the left said to avoid it.  It’s a mess.  If I’m wrong on this, let me know.

you are wrong about you hat the politicians mostly said.  In general they said they would trust if the doctors said to take it they would.  They did not trust Trump alone to rush things to make himself look better (especially before the election when he was promising it way earlier even)

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

you are wrong about you hat the politicians mostly said.  In general they said they would trust if the doctors said to take it they would.  They did not trust Trump alone to tush things to make himself look better (especially before the election when he was promising it way earlier even)

What?

 

[BladeRunner]

What?

Is that a new language?

 

[efactor]

I won't vote for Biden again unless his opponent is Trump in which case I may get a speeding ticket heading to the polls voting for Biden. I also will vote for Biden over any Republican candidate who:

   -claims Trump won

   -was a strong opponent of masks and the Covid vaccines

  -claims climate change is a hoax

 - didn't vote to impeach or convict Trump (obviously excludes those not in Congress)

Did Schiff ever provide the proof that Trump colluded with Russia?  I mean, he constantly stated he had proof, so it should have been a slam dunk.  But wait, he never provided proof and now evidence coming out that Sussman made the claim to the FBI on Killery's behalf, not as a concerned citizen.   But hey, let's ignore that.  While we are at it, let's ignore that Schiff immediately proclaimed the Hunter Biden laptop as "Russian disinformation".  Oops, guess it was real.

Masks didn't work.  At least the masks 99.9 percent of America was using.  Even the CDC admitted that.  

 

[efactor]

What?

Liberal logic.  Don't expect an intelligent explanation 

 

[ekbeats]

I think regulatory agencies bear the burden of the blame here. FEMA with Katrina. The SEC with Bush and Obama and the financial crisis. The WHO, CDC, and FDA with COVID. Now the FDA with baby formula. It seems like bureaucrats and experts making decisions with a slavish response to procedure and protocol is a large part of the problem. Blaming the executive seems like a cheap political jab when it happens, but the truth is that the executive branch oversees these agencies. The buck ends with the executive branch. 

I don't particularly get worked up about President Biden and his efficacy regarding baby formula nor do I worry about where the buck stops. What I do question is the structure and oversight of the agencies in question. I think we have ossified and unwieldy bureaucracies in America right now. To paraphrase Fukuyama, the people don't care if the power is derived from the legislature or the executive, they just want government that works. In our century, we've seen the legislature pass the solutions to problems to the executive agencies, who then botch the implementation of any solution to a problem. 

That's the problem. It's that the agencies tasked with solving the problems don't work. 

I get your point about federal agencies and agree with it 100%.  But Biden also had a role to play here.  This wasn't some minor issue that got lost in the federal bureaucracy.  Babies were dying, and the nation's infant food supply was at risk. And the issues here fell squarely in the Executive Branch and the duties of the President.

As I said in my prior posts, this was a smoldering fire in FDA dating all the way back to September, 2021, and it's hard to believe Biden wasn't advised on any of this back then.  Biden's own HHS Secretary Xavier Becerra said in a CNN interview that the "FDA has kept me apprised of this from LAST YEAR. We have been moving as quickly as we can".  If he's telling the truth, then Biden was certainly advised of this in some capacity last year.  But let's assume the worst and that the FDA and HHS never communicated any of this to Biden or White House staff.  We know for certain that Biden knew about it on February 17th when the plant closed.  Yet he didn't say one word about it until May 13th, and apparently he only did so then because "all of a sudden it's on the front page of every newspaper",   When asked if he should have acted sooner,  he said "if we had been better mind readers, I guess we could've."  Read any leadership book and this will be in the chapter of "what not to say."  Ironically one of the best takedowns on Biden's poor response to this issue was a piece from MSNBC.

All of this can be boiled down to the following - Biden had 3 months (and likely longer) to deal with an impending shortage of baby formula.  When it finally became a crisis in May, he magically found several things that could be done to help resolve the issue.  As far as I can tell, these solutions could have been implemented months earlier and the entire May crisis averted.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Liberal logic.  Don't expect an intelligent explanation 

I still don't know WTF he's saying in the first sentence

 

[squistion]

I see TDS is strong here.  

Next you will say the Russian collusion hoax was justified and Hillary did it for the good of the country.  Then you will agree that Biden has done everything to unite the country and that once the BBB bill is passed, inflation will get better.  While you are at it, might as well cover how the withdrawal from Afghanistan was perfectly executed, how Biden shut down Covid as promised, Hunter Biden is a genius and did nothing wrong, Harris was a great pick for VP and has done an amazing job taking control of our borders, shutting down domestic oil production was a stroke of genius, inflation is only high because of Putin, putting Mayor Pete in charge of Transportation when he knew nothing about the job was an excellent decision.

Joe "the buck stops with me" Biden who blames everyone but himself.  If people honestly don't regret voting for old Joe, that's a scary thought for the future.  

It wasn't a hoax.  

 

[timschochet]

I think regulatory agencies bear the burden of the blame here. FEMA with Katrina. The SEC with Bush and Obama and the financial crisis. The WHO, CDC, and FDA with COVID. Now the FDA with baby formula. It seems like bureaucrats and experts making decisions with a slavish response to procedure and protocol is a large part of the problem. Blaming the executive seems like a cheap political jab when it happens, but the truth is that the executive branch oversees these agencies. The buck ends with the executive branch. 

I don't particularly get worked up about President Biden and his efficacy regarding baby formula nor do I worry about where the buck stops. What I do question is the structure and oversight of the agencies in question. I think we have ossified and unwieldy bureaucracies in America right now. To paraphrase Fukuyama, the people don't care if the power is derived from the legislature or the executive, they just want government that works. In our century, we've seen the legislature pass the solutions to problems to the executive agencies, who then botch the implementation of any solution to a problem. 

That's the problem. It's that the agencies tasked with solving the problems don't work. 

I would amend your conclusion: they don’t work well in an emergency. I think they work fine absent a crisis. Unfortunately, we’ve had a lot of crisis lately. And with climate change upon us, we’re bound to have more. 
Not working well in an emergency is a problem that can be fixed. 

 

[efactor]

It wasn't a hoax.  

Then where is the proof?  Oh wait, that would ruin the narrative 

 

[timschochet]

I get your point about federal agencies and agree with it 100%.  But Biden also had a role to play here.  This wasn't some minor issue that got lost in the federal bureaucracy.  Babies were dying, and the nation's infant food supply was at risk. And the issues here fell squarely in the Executive Branch and the duties of the President.

As I said in my prior posts, this was a smoldering fire in FDA dating all the way back to September, 2021, and it's hard to believe Biden wasn't advised on any of this back then.  Biden's own HHS Secretary Xavier Becerra said in a CNN interview that the "FDA has kept me apprised of this from LAST YEAR. We have been moving as quickly as we can".  If he's telling the truth, then Biden was certainly advised of this in some capacity last year.  But let's assume the worst and that the FDA and HHS never communicated any of this to Biden or White House staff.  We know for certain that Biden knew about it on February 17th when the plant closed.  Yet he didn't say one word about it until May 13th, and apparently he only did so then because "all of a sudden it's on the front page of every newspaper",   When asked if he should have acted sooner,  he said "if we had been better mind readers, I guess we could've."  Read any leadership book and this will be in the chapter of "what not to say."  Ironically one of the best takedowns on Biden's poor response to this issue was a piece from MSNBC.

All of this can be boiled down to the following - Biden had 3 months (and likely longer) to deal with an impending shortage of baby formula.  When it finally became a crisis in May, he magically found several things that could be done to help resolve the issue.  As far as I can tell, these solutions could have been implemented months earlier and the entire May crisis averted.

Again- valid criticisms in a vacuum. But Presidents don’t exert authority over these agencies until the emergency has exploded. That’s just the way it’s always been. I can’t think of any exceptions to this rule. 

 

[timschochet]

The thing with trump and the vax is they ended up with a vax, and a lot of the politicians from the left said to avoid it.  It’s a mess.  If I’m wrong on this, let me know.

Well first off I was referring to Trump’s overall reaction to Covid, how he waited and waited before doing much of anything, and tried to deny it was an emergency. That was my comparison to Biden now, to Bush with Katrina, to a bunch of other issues- in fact I can’t think of a single example in which a President didn’t react to a crisis by waiting until it exploded before taking any action at all, which is why I don’t think it’s fair to single out Biden. 
With regard to your take, I do think you’re wrong in your implication- the politicians you mentioned were responding to the idea that Trump was going to promote a vaccine prior to the election before it was ready. In retrospect that argument was a bit over the top. 

 

[squistion]

Then where is the proof?  Oh wait, that would ruin the narrative 

Guess you missed the impeachment hearings. 

 

[lazyike]

Did Schiff ever provide the proof that Trump colluded with Russia?  I mean, he constantly stated he had proof, so it should have been a slam dunk.  But wait, he never provided proof and now evidence coming out that Sussman made the claim to the FBI on Killery's behalf, not as a concerned citizen.   But hey, let's ignore that.  While we are at it, let's ignore that Schiff immediately proclaimed the Hunter Biden laptop as "Russian disinformation".  Oops, guess it was real.

Masks didn't work.  At least the masks 99.9 percent of America was using.  Even the CDC admitted that.  

I should have qualified the impeachment vote and conviction to what Trump did leading up to Jan 6 and on J6 is the one I was especially referring to. 

But there definitely was quid pro quo that was the undeniable issue on the first trial

And yes masks don't work...I fully expect surgeons and their staff to quit wearing them in the operating room from what we have learned the last 2 years.

 

[efactor]

Guess you missed the impeachment hearings. 

LOL

Those were a joke.  Schiff never delivered on anything he claimed he could prove.  Still hasn't and now Robby Mook is saying Killery signed off on Sussman contacting the FBI about "suspicious activity" between Trump organization and Alfa Bank in Moscow.  Sussman claimed he spoke up as a concerned citizen when he was working for the Clinton Foundation.  Even CNN is reporting it now. 

 

[efactor]

And yes masks don't work...I fully expect surgeons and their staff to quit wearing them in the operating room from what we have learned the last 2 years.

You really are lazy 

Surgeons wear N-95 masks.  America was using cheap paper masks, most of which were made in China.  Or pieces of cheap cloth they could pull up over their face when required.  Most weren't even pulling them over their nose.

Even the CDC said they don't work.  Pretty easy to look up lazy 

 

[rockaction]

similar to the swift boat stuff with Kerry

The thing about the Swift Boat crew is that those were paid advertisements by a bunch of guys that formed some sort of weird PAC and infuriated the media, actually. So it wasn't like the media caused the Swift Boat controversy; in fact, they did everything they could to discredit the group, and did so effectively.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, because the facts behind the Swift Boat guys don't dovetail with the historical record of the media being hostile to Kerry. That's not how I remember that election whatsoever. Kerry was a dud and the media knew it, but they certainly weren't helping George W. Bush. The media loathed the Swift Boat stuff and covered the phenomenon like the Swift Boat guys were a cynical group getting together to swing an election (and they were a cynical group of guys that got together and tried to swing an election, but that's neither here nor there). The main point is the media didn't dredge up the SB story, nor did they cover it with zeal. They were howling about it in fury. 

And that's just incorrect that Romney's campaign didn't get utterly savaged in the press. It was unlike the treatment they gave to Democrats that year and in years prior. For sure. 

 

[FairWarning]

you are wrong about you hat the politicians mostly said.  In general they said they would trust if the doctors said to take it they would.  They did not trust Trump alone to rush things to make himself look better (especially before the election when he was promising it way earlier even)

It was political from the start.  At the Chinese New Year in NYC, Trump was calling it the China Virus, while the mayor and other officials told people to come out, to back china and not be racist.  It didn’t matter what one side did, the other side was going to do the opposite.

 

[Terminalxylem]

You really are lazy 

Surgeons wear N-95 masks.  America was using cheap paper masks, most of which were made in China.  Or pieces of cheap cloth they could pull up over their face when required.  Most weren't even pulling them over their nose.

Even the CDC said they don't work.  Pretty easy to look up lazy 

For the record, while surgeons can wear N95s, surgical masks are typically used during, ummm, surgeries. 
 

And in case anyone is too lazy to look it up, this is the current guidance from the CDC:

Wear a Mask When There is A Lot of COVID in Your Community

Wear a mask in public places where there are a lot of people around.

The mask must cover your nose.

The mask must cover your mouth.

The mask must fit under your chin.

The mask must be snug on your face.

Make sure it is easy to breathe.

If you visit someone who might get very sick from COVID-19, wear a mask when you are with them.

If you might get sick from COVID-19, talk to your doctor about when you should wear a mask.

You can wear a mask inside public places like grocery stores and movie theaters at any time.

You can wear a mask in outdoor public places like parks at any time.

If you have been with someone who is sick with COVID-19, take a self-test or go to a doctor to get tested for COVID-19.

 

[FairWarning]

For the record, while surgeons can wear N95s, surgical masks are typically used during, ummm, surgeries. 
 

And in case anyone is too lazy to look it up, this is the current guidance from the CDC:

What about boosters?  My mother is getting moved to a different home in the next two weeks.   I assume she will need the newest booster?

 

[Terminalxylem]

What about boosters?  My mother is getting moved to a different home in the next two weeks.   I assume she will need the newest booster?

If she’s old and/or has medical problems (I’m guessing both), she should have received her second booster of an mRNA vaccine. 

Any other questions I’ll answer in the FFA thread. Sorry, don’t want to derail this topic with any more covid talk, but the belligerent poster above was so wildly off-base (s)he needed to be educated.

 

[GoBirds]

Biden Voters, do you regret your vote for Biden?

They won’t admit it here, but they should.  

 

[GoBirds]

None of that supports your claim that the administration was somehow responsible for the shortages or handled them poorly.   Another swing and a miss.   

Electing Biden is the definition of a swing and miss. 

 

[FairWarning]

If she’s old and/or has medical problems (I’m guessing both), she should have received her second booster of an mRNA vaccine. 

Any other questions I’ll answer in the FFA thread. Sorry, don’t want to derail this topic with any more covid talk, but the belligerent poster above was so wildly off-base (s)he needed to be educated.

Thanks

 

[sho nuff]

The thing about the Swift Boat crew is that those were paid advertisements by a bunch of guys that formed some sort of weird PAC and infuriated the media, actually. So it wasn't like the media caused the Swift Boat controversy; in fact, they did everything they could to discredit the group, and did so effectively.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, because the facts behind the Swift Boat guys don't dovetail with the historical record of the media being hostile to Kerry. That's not how I remember that election whatsoever. Kerry was a dud and the media knew it, but they certainly weren't helping George W. Bush. The media loathed the Swift Boat stuff and covered the phenomenon like the Swift Boat guys were a cynical group getting together to swing an election (and they were a cynical group of guys that got together and tried to swing an election, but that's neither here nor there). The main point is the media didn't dredge up the SB story, nor did they cover it with zeal. They were howling about it in fury. 

And that's just incorrect that Romney's campaign didn't get utterly savaged in the press. It was unlike the treatment they gave to Democrats that year and in years prior. For sure. 

Unlike what Obama received?  Really?  He wasn't painted as some radical because of Reverend Wright?  His citizenship wasn't called into question?

What Im trying to say here...is that Trump was the outlier as far as how nasty things got.  What Romney got was in line with similar candidates from the right and left over the years.

 

[sho nuff]

It was political from the start.  At the Chinese New Year in NYC, Trump was calling it the China Virus, while the mayor and other officials told people to come out, to back china and not be racist.  It didn’t matter what one side did, the other side was going to do the opposite.

Sure...but the idea that Harris and Biden were against the Vaccine until Trump lost...vs their full actually words which were to fight against Donald Trump pushing that he could deliver it before the election even...but that they would ultimately trust the doctors if they said it was safe.

 

[moleculo]

I wasn't asked to identify what the Administration did wrong.  I was responding to your assertion that this was Trump's fault.  But since you asked in your usual pleasant manner, I'll tell you exactly what the Biden Administration did wrong.

1. The first baby sickened by Cronobacter was in Minnesota all the way back in September.  The Minnesota DOH investigated it immediately and within days determined that the formula originated from the Abbott facility in Sturgis, MI.  They reported this to the Biden Administration (through the FDA) in SEPTEMBER.

2. Coincidentally, that very same week in September, the FDA conducted a 5 day routine inspection of the plant for the first time in 2 years. The FDA's normal procedure is to inspect the plants every year, but due to Covid the agency temporarily stopped doing inspections it didn’t deem “mission critical”.  I guess the health of babies isn't all that critical.  It's obvious that the FDA didn't make the inspectors aware of the Minnesota issue as it should have.  The report identified sanitation problems, but failed to address a lot of things that that the subsequent inspection focused on.

3. A few weeks later on October 19, the FDA received a 34 page document from a whistleblower outlining allegations of lax cleaning practices, purposely falsified records, and efforts by plant officials to keep the FDA from learning about serious issues related to the plant’s own system for checking for bacteria in formula.  Hard copies of the disclosure were sent via FedEx to senior food safety officials and other leaders at FDA. They included FDA’s top official, then-acting Commissioner Janet Woodcock, Susan Mayne, director of the Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition, Judy McMeekin, associate commissioner for Regulatory Affairs and Catherine Hermsen, assistant commissioner of the agency’s Office of Criminal Investigations.

4. Despite all of the above, the FDA didn't interview the whistleblower until December, didn’t inspect the plant until Jan. 31, and the Formula wasn't recalled until Feb. 17.  During this time 4 additional infants were hospitalized and 2 died.

I could go on and on, but I have to mow the grass.  The FDA clearly mishandled this, and they will get skewered for it in the coming months after all the investigations.  As for Biden specifically, everything he has done in last few days to help mitigate shortages could have been done all the way back in February, maybe even sooner.

sounds like a large government bureaucracy was slow to act.

in other news, water is still wet.

 

[moleculo]

LOL

Those were a joke.  Schiff never delivered on anything he claimed he could prove.  Still hasn't and now Robby Mook is saying Killery signed off on Sussman contacting the FBI about "suspicious activity" between Trump organization and Alfa Bank in Moscow.  Sussman claimed he spoke up as a concerned citizen when he was working for the Clinton Foundation.  Even CNN is reporting it now. 

FYI: when you say things like the bolded, I completely tune out.  I didn't read anything past.  I can't speak for others, but I assume many do the same. 

I can't take anything serious with this kind of loaded verbiage.