(Baby Formula Shortage): Biden ADMITS He Knew Of Crisis In Early April (4/27/22 23:53 PST) (1 Viewer)

[BladeRunner]

You really don't follow?

Curious what your age and education level are?

He's from California, y'know.  Of course he knows stuff.

 

[moleculo]

I would have voted against that bill too.  We should be cutting the FDA's budget, not expanding it.  Preferably by cutting it's budget to $0.00.  And blowing up the building, and salting the earth where it once stood.  

The fact that we're rewarding the agency that seems to be directly responsible for creating this problem in the first place is odd policy-making.

Heaven forbid any government agency shut down companies shipping salmonella to babies.

 

[squistion]

You really don't follow?

Curious what your age and education level are?

I follow just fine, thank you. Race not mentioned in either bill and there were no provisions about caring only for brown babies, as was suggested. 

 

[BassNBrew]

I follow just fine, thank you. Race not mentioned in either bill and there were no provisions about caring only for brown babies, as was suggested. 

Obviously you're not following.

People on both sides of the aisle vote against bills with things in them they favor.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

This is lazy posting.

Let's say Rep Squistion votes against the baby formula bill because it contain a provision that it's only for white babies.  Is Rep Squistion now against baby formula?  Maybe the baby formula bill only has enough funding to cover 50% of the babies so Rep. Squisition votes no in order to get a bill through with double the funding.  Is Rep. Squistion against baby formula?

I don't think that Squistion is against baby formula.

 

[PhillipPhoto]

I follow just fine, thank you. Race not mentioned in either bill and there were no provisions about caring only for brown babies, as was suggested. 

Most the time you don't though.  This isn't your first lazy posting that's been called out.  Probably not the first one today.

 

[BassNBrew]

I don't think that Squistion is against baby formula.

And I don't think all the Republicans against the first bill mentioned are against baby formula, especially when Desert Power brought up another bill that most were in favor of...

The House on Wednesday also passed the Access to Baby Formula Act in a 414-9 vote that was largely bipartisan. Five Republicans and one Democrat did not vote.

The bill calls for permanently relaxing restrictions on the kinds of baby formula that individuals in the federal low-income assistance program for women, children and infants are allowed to purchase. The program is formally known as the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children, commonly referred to as the WIC program.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Heaven forbid any government agency shut down companies shipping salmonella to babies.

Well, that was mostly just dramatic flourish.

Mostly.

 

[John123]

Heaven forbid any government agency shut down companies shipping salmonella to babies.

Except they didn't.

 

[squistion]

I don't think that Squistion is against baby formula.

I honesty can't image any scenario that I would be. 

 

[PhillipPhoto]

I honesty can't image any scenario that I would be. 

What if it had salmonella in it?   

 

[squistion]

What if it had salmonella in it?   

Then it should be taken off the market at it was by the FDA and that was baby formula made by a specific company that was tainted, not baby formula in general. 

 

[PhillipPhoto]

Then it should be taken off the market at it was by the FDA and that was baby formula made by a specific company that was tainted, not baby formula in general. 

Good! So you can imagine a scenario.  

 

[squistion]

Good! So you can imagine a scenario.  

You remind me so much of that guy who used to be here, Tony. I will let you have the last word, as I am through discussing baby formula shortage with you. 

 

[PhillipPhoto]

You remind me so much of that guy who used to be here, Tony. I will let you have the last word, as I am through discussing baby formula shortage with you. 

Sorry for your loss.

 

[FairWarning]

Heaven forbid any government agency shut down companies shipping salmonella to babies.

Totally agree with you - but there was no backup plan.  To me, that is inexcusable.  

 

[PhillipPhoto]

Bipartisan congress condemnation of the Biden administration's handling of this. - NBC Nightly 

 

[moleculo]

Totally agree with you - but there was no backup plan.  To me, that is inexcusable.  

Are you proposing the government should take an active in managing the means of production?  Interesting. 

 

[FairWarning]

Are you proposing the government should take an active in managing the means of production?  Interesting. 

If the FDA is shutting it down,  shouldn’t they have foreseen the shortages?  People on discord channels have been buying this stuff with bots for awhile now.  

 

[PhillipPhoto]

Are you proposing the government should take an active in managing the means of production?  Interesting. 

If they are going to shutter a major manufacturer (needed or not) that will cause a crisis, absolutely.  And this just became bipartisan, you have democratic congresspeople that disagree with your increasingly bad take.  

 

[moleculo]

If they are going to shutter a major manufacturer (needed or not) that will cause a crisis, absolutely.  And this just became bipartisan, you have democratic congresspeople that disagree with your increasingly bad take.  

Wait, what exactly is my increasingly bad take? 

 

[moleculo]

If the FDA is shutting it down,  shouldn’t they have foreseen the shortages?  People on discord channels have been buying this stuff with bots for awhile now.  

It's the FDA's responsibility to track supply chain and inventory levels?

 

[BassNBrew]

I honesty can't image any scenario that I would be. 

What if it had salmonella in it?   

Ahhh....Squistion is in favor of giving babies salmonella and sending them to the hospital.

 

[PhillipPhoto]

Wait, what exactly is my increasingly bad take? 

Here you go with playing the Sidez! games. So predictable.  

 

[moleculo]

Here you go with playing the Sidez! games. So predictable.  

??

 

[FairWarning]

It's the FDA's responsibility to track supply chain and inventory levels?

Supply chain issues, yes.  

Here is a good article about it from Time - https://time.com/6177128/baby-formula-congress-monopoly-abbott/

 

[moleculo]

Supply chain issues, yes.  

Here is a good article about it from Time - https://time.com/6177128/baby-formula-congress-monopoly-abbott/

I didn't see any part about the FDA tracking supply chains, but admittedly I skim pretty quickly.  Did I miss something?

I saw there is a bill where suppliers would have to notify the FDA if they anticipate shortages but obviously that has nothing to do with what has already happened.

 

[FairWarning]

I didn't see any part about the FDA tracking supply chains, but admittedly I skim pretty quickly.  Did I miss something?

I saw there is a bill where suppliers would have to notify the FDA if they anticipate shortages but obviously that has nothing to do with what has already happened.

That is a flaw if the feds are using it for their WIC program- all lower-income mothers.    It just seems like we are having far too many supply chain issues for various reasons though.

 

[squistion]

Ahhh....Squistion is in favor of giving babies salmonella and sending them to the hospital.

Yeah, right.   

 

[moleculo]

That is a flaw if the feds are using it for their WIC program- all lower-income mothers.    It just seems like we are having far too many supply chain issues for various reasons though.

I agree that it's a problem.  The article told me why and it was interesting, but I don't think the FDA has authority over WIC.

We are having supply chain issues, and have for quite some time.  IMO it's what happens when we have massive supply/demand shocks in a JIT world.  It takes time to work through everything, and any additional hiccup becomes catastrophic.

If you want to argue that the shortage is caused by multiple federal agencies not talking to each other, I wouldn't argue. If you want to lay that at Bidens feet, go for it.  But it's a much more complicated issue than "blame the FDA".

 

[PhillipPhoto]

I agree that it's a problem.  The article told me why and it was interesting, but I don't think the FDA has authority over WIC.

We are having supply chain issues, and have for quite some time.  IMO it's what happens when we have massive supply/demand shocks in a JIT world.  It takes time to work through everything, and any additional hiccup becomes catastrophic.

If you want to argue that the shortage is caused by multiple federal agencies not talking to each other, I wouldn't argue. If you want to lay that at Bidens feet, go for it.  But it's a much more complicated issue than "blame the FDA".

There it is!  Trying to make the distinction between the FDA and the Biden administration when everyone knows the commissioner reports to the secretary of health who reports to the president.  

It's just government miss communication isnt an excuse normal Americans are going to accept.  A real leader is responsible for the whole org chart. But you do you.  

 

[moleculo]

There it is!  Trying to make the distinction between the FDA and the Biden administration when everyone knows the commissioner reports to the secretary of health who reports to the president.  

It's just government miss communication isnt an excuse normal Americans are going to accept.  A real leader is responsible for the whole org chart. But you do you.  

Damn dude...i said go ahead and blame Biden.  What more do you want?

 

[GordonGekko]

Here are the Republicans who bucked the party on baby formula bills

A handful of Republican lawmakers bucked their party on Wednesday in votes on two separate bills aiming to address the nationwide baby formula shortage causing rising concern for parents across the country.

The main bill, dubbed the Infant Formula Supplemental Appropriations Act, passed in a 231-192 vote that mainly broke along party lines. Four Republicans and one Democrat did not vote.

https://thehill.com/news/house/3493832-here-are-the-republicans-who-bucked-the-party-on-baby-formula-bills/

H.R.7790 - Infant Formula Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2022117th Congress (2021-2022)

Making emergency supplemental appropriations to address the shortage of infant formula in the United States for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2022, and for other purposes.

For an additional amount for “Salaries and Expenses”, $28,000,000, to remain available until September 30, 2023, shall be available to address the current shortage of FDA-regulated infant formula and certain medical foods in the United States and to prevent future shortages, including such steps as may be necessary to prevent fraudulent products from entering the United States market: Provided, That the Commissioner of Food and Drugs shall report to the Committees on Appropriations of the House of Representatives and the Senate on a weekly basis on obligations of funding under this heading in this Act to address the shortage of infant formula and certain medical foods in the United States: Provided further, That such amount is designated by the Congress as being for an emergency requirement pursuant to section 4001(a)(1) and section 4001(b) of S. Con. Res. 14 (117th Congress), the concurrent resolution on the budget for fiscal year 2022.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/7790/text

Direct Headline: Granger Remarks on H.R. 7790, Infant Formula Supplemental Appropriations Act

I have four concerns about the bill.

First, the bill does nothing to force the FDA to come up with a plan to address the shortage.

Second, it does nothing to address whether federal agencies have excess formula that could be directed to American households.

Third, it fails to leverage the federal government’s existing capabilities to transport formula.

And finally, the bill gives the FDA an additional $28 million, when funds are already available to address this issue.

Two months ago, we increased the FDA’s operating budget by $102 million.

This included an $11 million increase specifically for maternal and infant health and nutrition.

There is also more than $1 billion that the Department of Agriculture has available to address supply chain issues.

My question is why can’t these existing funds be spent.

Ultimately, I fear that H.R. 7790 will not put more formula on store shelves and that is why I am opposing this bill.

Granger RAH.GOV May 18, 2022

https://republicans-appropriations.house.gov/news/statements/granger-remarks-hr-7790-infant-formula-supplemental-appropriations-act

Direct Headline: 192 Republicans Decide They’d Like Formula-Seeking Parents to Keep Suffering

According to conservatives, the formula-shortage crisis isn’t worth urgently addressing....Florida representative Kat Cammack, who last week tweeted a photo of formula at a U.S. border detention center and decried the fact that babies of migrants detained by the U.S. government were being fed, as is required by law....On Thursday, Pelosi blasted her colleagues across the aisle, asking, “What’s the objection? That we don’t want to spend money on babies who are crying for food? Ok, let’s have that debate.”....

By Bess Levin May 19, 2022

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/05/republicans-formula-bills-note-votes

*****

Team Blue fast tracked HR 7790 for political reasons.

If Republicans voted for it, it would be used within a media campaign to say "See, even the GOP acknowledges it's the FDA that's the problem, not the Biden Administration! If that wasn't the case, then why did they vote to give money to the FDA to solve the problem!"  But the money is there already. It's essentially payoff to the FDA to seal the back door on the media optics and be willing to take the hit in the national daily media cycle for this mess.

If Republicans didn't vote for it, it would be used as it is right now. To say the GOP hates infants and wants them to starve.

The enduring question becomes if suburban women voters across the board are low information voters or not.

In general, as a society descends into chaos, people will trend towards being high information voters. Their day to day survival depends on it.

Elon Musk has also been a game changer because now shock marketing click bait partisan outrage talking points on Big Social Media are now held to much greater overall scrutiny.

Reinforcement of rising prices at the gas pump and at the grocery store means that parents might see some bombardment of propaganda that the GOP is out to starve infants but the daily beating they are taking with inflation is going to stick to Biden and Harris long term.

This counter narrative would be more useful if the Mid Terms happened in a week. But that is not the case.

 

[Tom Skerritt]

So this whole issue seems to be about how much control the government should/should not have with private corporations?

 

[PhillipPhoto]

So this whole issue seems to be about how much control the government should/should not have with private corporations?

No. It's about the Biden administration's ineptness. 

 

[Desert_Power]

Damn dude...i said go ahead and blame Biden.  What more do you want?

Impeach Biden and dismantle the woke administrative state obviously. You certainly shouldn't talk about Trump's tariffs or baby's getting sick/dying from Abbott's products.

 

[moleculo]

So this whole issue seems to be about how much control the government should/should not have with private corporations?

As near as I can tell, it's about blaming Biden because the government doesn't control the free market enough.  

 

[PhillipPhoto]

Impeach Biden and dismantle the woke administrative state obviously. You certainly shouldn't talk about Trump's tariffs or baby's getting sick/dying from Abbott's products.

Nobody is keeping you from talking about those things.  But when you throw up a strawman about government controlling the free market when they should have seen the crisis coming and done something, anything, you might get other posters calling you out on that.

Free market like you know, the defensive production act or the defense department getting into the baby formula import business.

 

[The Commish]

So this whole issue seems to be about how much control the government should/should not have with private corporations?

It's ####### bizarre honestly.  When I see this problem, I look IMMEDIATELY at the fact that this company had a single point of failure.  First and foremost, that's the problem, but damn near everyone in this thread, including the "capitalists", are focused on government intervention.  

 

[PhillipPhoto]

Number of babies in the headlines hospitalized due to formula shortage:

2 in South Carolina, 2 in Memphis, Tennessee and a "few" in Atlanta, Georgia.

East Texas ER doctor treating babies that are sick from homemade formula.

Washington Post: Formula shortage is worst for low-income families, high-risk infants.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

It's ####### bizarre honestly.  When I see this problem, I look IMMEDIATELY at the fact that this company had a single point of failure.  First and foremost, that's the problem, but damn near everyone in this thread, including the "capitalists", are focused on government intervention.  

Hi.  I'm a capitalist.  I would like to see this problem solved by letting consumers buy formula that was manufactured in Europe and approved for sale in Europe by European regulators.  No need for the government to intervene, other than just to get out of the way.

I thought somebody mentioned earlier in the thread, that the Biden administration is actually doing this on an emergency basis or something.  It's not like it's some weird, crazy idea dreamed up a libertarian think tank.  This is just normal, ordinary trade.

 

[PhillipPhoto]

It's ####### bizarre honestly.  When I see this problem, I look IMMEDIATELY at the fact that this company had a single point of failure.  First and foremost, that's the problem, but damn near everyone in this thread, including the "capitalists", are focused on government intervention.  

You can do both.

It might be because the most bizarre part of this story is that the FDA let the plant manufacture formula for 4 months after the 2 infant deaths, then shut down the plant leaving it unresolved for 3 months.  Plant contamination shouldn't take that long to figure out nor correct.

It might also be because this is the political forum.  If you didn't want to discuss the political aspect you could start a baby formula thread in the FFA. 

 

[moleculo]

Nobody is keeping you from talking about those things.  But when you throw up a strawman about government controlling the free market when they should have seen the crisis coming and done something, anything, you might get other posters calling you out on that.

Free market like you know, the defensive production act or the defense department getting into the baby formula import business.

in your mind, how should this have played out? With full benefit of hindsight, how would this have worked?

I'm super curious how you get "government should have seen this coming and done something about it" without government interfering with the free market.*

*notable exception WRT importing, as per @IvanKaramazov's above point.

 

[moleculo]

Hi.  I'm a capitalist.  I would like to see this problem solved by letting consumers buy formula that was manufactured in Europe and approved for sale in Europe by European regulators.  No need for the government to intervene, other than just to get out of the way.

I thought somebody mentioned earlier in the thread, that the Biden administration is actually doing this on an emergency basis or something.  It's not like it's some weird, crazy idea dreamed up a libertarian think tank.  This is just normal, ordinary trade.

that's the proper thing to do.  We can question if it wasn't done soon enough or at sufficient scale.

 

[PhillipPhoto]

in your mind, how should this have played out? With full benefit of hindsight, how would this have worked?

I'm super curious how you get "government should have seen this coming and done something about it" without government controlling a free market.

Big fine by the FDA, quick inspections and testing so the plant gets back to manufacturing in weeks instead of months. 

How many brain cells does it take to realize this isn't just shutting down a facility who's volume would be filled by their competitors?  It should have been all hands on deck.  I mean they let them keep producing product and babies drinking that product for 4 months before even taking action - the FDA commissioner should be fired for that alone.

Want proof it can be done?  As soon as this becomes the #1 headline the FDA commissioner says the plant will be back open in 1-2 weeks.

 

[The Commish]

Hi.  I'm a capitalist.  I would like to see this problem solved by letting consumers buy formula that was manufactured in Europe and approved for sale in Europe by European regulators.  No need for the government to intervene, other than just to get out of the way.

I thought somebody mentioned earlier in the thread, that the Biden administration is actually doing this on an emergency basis or something.  It's not like it's some weird, crazy idea dreamed up a libertarian think tank.  This is just normal, ordinary trade.

I know.....we discussed this and then you also had discussion with others as to what could go wrong with it.  And honestly, I don't disagree with your suggestion as I hold similar views of our FDA as you do.  But in my view, companies shouldn't be relying on government until it's something they couldn't possibly see coming.  To me, this is SO basic of a problem, I can't get passed the company's complete ineptness to blame someone else.  NO ONE is talking about that reality that I've seen in here.  The focus went immediate to government.  

 

[moleculo]

Big fine by the FDA, quick inspections and testing so the plant gets back to manufacturing in weeks instead of months. 

How many brain cells does it take to realize this isn't just shutting down a facility who's volume would be filled by their competitors?  It should have been all hands on deck.  I mean they let them keep producing product and babies drinking that product for 4 months before even taking action - the FDA commissioner should be fired for that alone.

Want proof it can be done?  As soon as this becomes the #1 headline the FDA commissioner says the plant will be back open in 1-2 weeks.

do you think Abbott was sitting on their hands waiting for clearance?  Letting the factory sit around, idle, for 3 months waiting for some bookworm in Washington to dot the i's and cross the t's?  Come on. 

 

[PhillipPhoto]

I know.....we discussed this and then you also had discussion with others as to what could go wrong with it.  And honestly, I don't disagree with your suggestion as I hold similar views of our FDA as you do.  But in my view, companies shouldn't be relying on government until it's something they couldn't possibly see coming.  To me, this is SO basic of a problem, I can't get passed the company's complete ineptness to blame someone else.  NO ONE is talking about that reality that I've seen in here.  The focus went immediate to government.  

Blame is separate from solving the immediate problem.  You don't think Abbott went about a deep clean as soon as the FDA let them?  And wants to get back to manufacturing asap?  Let the blame happen later, in court.

Also, don't disagree = agree.

 

[PhillipPhoto]

do you think Abbott was sitting on their hands waiting for clearance?  Letting the factory sit around, idle, for 3 months waiting for some bookworm in Washington to dot the i's and cross the t's?  Come on. 

Why wouldn't Abbott do everything in their power to get back to manufacturing?  That's their business.  It's clear as day where the hold up is.

 

[moleculo]

Why wouldn't Abbott do everything in their power to get back to manufacturing?  That's their business.  It's clear as day where the hold up is.

According to the FDA,  "Abbott staff “have been unwilling or unable to implement sustainable corrective actions to ensure the safety and quality of food manufactured for infants,” leading to the need for legal action, the documents state."

some background (per the above article):

Problems at the Abbott Sturgis plant surfaced in September during the F.D.A.’s first routine inspection there since the Covid-19 pandemic began. Inspectors discovered standing water inside the plant and personnel working directly with formula without proper hand hygiene, according to agency documents.

The following month, a whistleblower who worked at the plant filed a complaint under the Food Safety Modernization Act claiming that plant leaders celebrated concealing information from the F.D.A. and omitted key information from official documents.

The F.D.A. returned to the plant on Jan. 31 and discovered persistent problems, including the presence of cronobacter bacteria near production lines, according to agency records.

Reads to me like the folks at Abbott didn't think it was a big deal and downplayed the FDA.  They know that shutting down is costly, and did everything they could do to prevent it.  Why did it take so long to get back up and running?  Without being an employee of Abbott's Sturgis facility, I have no idea.

Here is a 34 page whistle blower report from Oct 2021.  It's a pretty clear pattern of bypassing regulations, falsifying audits, etc. The conclusion from the report:

Even though Abbott’s senior management is now aware of many of the alleged regulatory violations referenced in the foregoing, no serious effort to remedy the violations have been reported to date. Instead, the emphasis appears to be more focused on identifying current employees at the Sturgis site who may have reported concerns to the Complainant. Aside from the mandate of FDA regulations, Abbott’s inaction is directly at odds with the mandate of Sarbanes-Oxley mandating adequate internal controls and the Department of Justice’s policy mandating effective compliance programs.

Abbott’s inaction is also inconsistent with the Corporate Integrity Agreement that it entered into with the Office of Inspector General of the Department of Health and Human Services in May of 2012 as part of a plea agreement. United States v. Abbott Laboratories, No. 12-cr-00026 (W.D. Va., filed May 7, 2012). At the same time, Abbott also entered into settlement agreements with various states. Though not directly applicable to Abbott Nutrition, the core concepts apply in terms of the ongoing obligations on the part of Abbott’s management and board of directors.

It is further submitted that what is being reported is based upon the Complainant’s direct knowledge and, in a few instances, highly credible sources. Throughout his time at Abbott, and even since his departure, others have reported additional concerns that he was unable to verify. In countless situations, he was told by employees that the Sturgis site was like a “house of cards” if employees could speak freely. But the consensus remains that only with the intervention and protections of responsible enforcement officials would employees be inclined to speak freely.