BladeRunner
Footballguy
You really don't follow?
Curious what your age and education level are?
He's from California, y'know. Of course he knows stuff.
You really don't follow?
Curious what your age and education level are?
Heaven forbid any government agency shut down companies shipping salmonella to babies.I would have voted against that bill too. We should be cutting the FDA's budget, not expanding it. Preferably by cutting it's budget to $0.00. And blowing up the building, and salting the earth where it once stood.
The fact that we're rewarding the agency that seems to be directly responsible for creating this problem in the first place is odd policy-making.
You really don't follow?
Curious what your age and education level are?
I follow just fine, thank you. Race not mentioned in either bill and there were no provisions about caring only for brown babies, as was suggested.
I don't think that Squistion is against baby formula.This is lazy posting.
Let's say Rep Squistion votes against the baby formula bill because it contain a provision that it's only for white babies. Is Rep Squistion now against baby formula? Maybe the baby formula bill only has enough funding to cover 50% of the babies so Rep. Squisition votes no in order to get a bill through with double the funding. Is Rep. Squistion against baby formula?
Most the time you don't though. This isn't your first lazy posting that's been called out. Probably not the first one today.I follow just fine, thank you. Race not mentioned in either bill and there were no provisions about caring only for brown babies, as was suggested.
I don't think that Squistion is against baby formula.
The House on Wednesday also passed the Access to Baby Formula Act in a 414-9 vote that was largely bipartisan. Five Republicans and one Democrat did not vote.
The bill calls for permanently relaxing restrictions on the kinds of baby formula that individuals in the federal low-income assistance program for women, children and infants are allowed to purchase. The program is formally known as the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children, commonly referred to as the WIC program.
Well, that was mostly just dramatic flourish.Heaven forbid any government agency shut down companies shipping salmonella to babies.
Heaven forbid any government agency shut down companies shipping salmonella to babies.
I don't think that Squistion is against baby formula.
What if it had salmonella in it?I honesty can't image any scenario that I would be.
What if it had salmonella in it?
Good! So you can imagine a scenario.Then it should be taken off the market at it was by the FDA and that was baby formula made by a specific company that was tainted, not baby formula in general.
Good! So you can imagine a scenario.
Sorry for your loss.You remind me so much of that guy who used to be here, Tony. I will let you have the last word, as I am through discussing baby formula shortage with you.
Totally agree with you - but there was no backup plan. To me, that is inexcusable.Heaven forbid any government agency shut down companies shipping salmonella to babies.
Are you proposing the government should take an active in managing the means of production? Interesting.Totally agree with you - but there was no backup plan. To me, that is inexcusable.
If the FDA is shutting it down, shouldn’t they have foreseen the shortages? People on discord channels have been buying this stuff with bots for awhile now.Are you proposing the government should take an active in managing the means of production? Interesting.
If they are going to shutter a major manufacturer (needed or not) that will cause a crisis, absolutely. And this just became bipartisan, you have democratic congresspeople that disagree with your increasingly bad take.Are you proposing the government should take an active in managing the means of production? Interesting.
Wait, what exactly is my increasingly bad take?If they are going to shutter a major manufacturer (needed or not) that will cause a crisis, absolutely. And this just became bipartisan, you have democratic congresspeople that disagree with your increasingly bad take.
It's the FDA's responsibility to track supply chain and inventory levels?If the FDA is shutting it down, shouldn’t they have foreseen the shortages? People on discord channels have been buying this stuff with bots for awhile now.
I honesty can't image any scenario that I would be.
What if it had salmonella in it?
Here you go with playing the Sidez! games. So predictable.Wait, what exactly is my increasingly bad take?
Supply chain issues, yes.It's the FDA's responsibility to track supply chain and inventory levels?
I didn't see any part about the FDA tracking supply chains, but admittedly I skim pretty quickly. Did I miss something?Supply chain issues, yes.
Here is a good article about it from Time - https://time.com/6177128/baby-formula-congress-monopoly-abbott/
That is a flaw if the feds are using it for their WIC program- all lower-income mothers. It just seems like we are having far too many supply chain issues for various reasons though.I didn't see any part about the FDA tracking supply chains, but admittedly I skim pretty quickly. Did I miss something?
I saw there is a bill where suppliers would have to notify the FDA if they anticipate shortages but obviously that has nothing to do with what has already happened.
Ahhh....Squistion is in favor of giving babies salmonella and sending them to the hospital.
I agree that it's a problem. The article told me why and it was interesting, but I don't think the FDA has authority over WIC.That is a flaw if the feds are using it for their WIC program- all lower-income mothers. It just seems like we are having far too many supply chain issues for various reasons though.
There it is! Trying to make the distinction between the FDA and the Biden administration when everyone knows the commissioner reports to the secretary of health who reports to the president.I agree that it's a problem. The article told me why and it was interesting, but I don't think the FDA has authority over WIC.
We are having supply chain issues, and have for quite some time. IMO it's what happens when we have massive supply/demand shocks in a JIT world. It takes time to work through everything, and any additional hiccup becomes catastrophic.
If you want to argue that the shortage is caused by multiple federal agencies not talking to each other, I wouldn't argue. If you want to lay that at Bidens feet, go for it. But it's a much more complicated issue than "blame the FDA".
Damn dude...i said go ahead and blame Biden. What more do you want?There it is! Trying to make the distinction between the FDA and the Biden administration when everyone knows the commissioner reports to the secretary of health who reports to the president.
It's just government miss communication isnt an excuse normal Americans are going to accept. A real leader is responsible for the whole org chart. But you do you.
Here are the Republicans who bucked the party on baby formula bills
A handful of Republican lawmakers bucked their party on Wednesday in votes on two separate bills aiming to address the nationwide baby formula shortage causing rising concern for parents across the country.
The main bill, dubbed the Infant Formula Supplemental Appropriations Act, passed in a 231-192 vote that mainly broke along party lines. Four Republicans and one Democrat did not vote.
https://thehill.com/news/house/3493832-here-are-the-republicans-who-bucked-the-party-on-baby-formula-bills/
No. It's about the Biden administration's ineptness.So this whole issue seems to be about how much control the government should/should not have with private corporations?
Impeach Biden and dismantle the woke administrative state obviously. You certainly shouldn't talk about Trump's tariffs or baby's getting sick/dying from Abbott's products.Damn dude...i said go ahead and blame Biden. What more do you want?
As near as I can tell, it's about blaming Biden because the government doesn't control the free market enough.So this whole issue seems to be about how much control the government should/should not have with private corporations?
Nobody is keeping you from talking about those things. But when you throw up a strawman about government controlling the free market when they should have seen the crisis coming and done something, anything, you might get other posters calling you out on that.Impeach Biden and dismantle the woke administrative state obviously. You certainly shouldn't talk about Trump's tariffs or baby's getting sick/dying from Abbott's products.
It's ####### bizarre honestly. When I see this problem, I look IMMEDIATELY at the fact that this company had a single point of failure. First and foremost, that's the problem, but damn near everyone in this thread, including the "capitalists", are focused on government intervention.So this whole issue seems to be about how much control the government should/should not have with private corporations?
Hi. I'm a capitalist. I would like to see this problem solved by letting consumers buy formula that was manufactured in Europe and approved for sale in Europe by European regulators. No need for the government to intervene, other than just to get out of the way.It's ####### bizarre honestly. When I see this problem, I look IMMEDIATELY at the fact that this company had a single point of failure. First and foremost, that's the problem, but damn near everyone in this thread, including the "capitalists", are focused on government intervention.
You can do both.It's ####### bizarre honestly. When I see this problem, I look IMMEDIATELY at the fact that this company had a single point of failure. First and foremost, that's the problem, but damn near everyone in this thread, including the "capitalists", are focused on government intervention.
in your mind, how should this have played out? With full benefit of hindsight, how would this have worked?Nobody is keeping you from talking about those things. But when you throw up a strawman about government controlling the free market when they should have seen the crisis coming and done something, anything, you might get other posters calling you out on that.
Free market like you know, the defensive production act or the defense department getting into the baby formula import business.
that's the proper thing to do. We can question if it wasn't done soon enough or at sufficient scale.Hi. I'm a capitalist. I would like to see this problem solved by letting consumers buy formula that was manufactured in Europe and approved for sale in Europe by European regulators. No need for the government to intervene, other than just to get out of the way.
I thought somebody mentioned earlier in the thread, that the Biden administration is actually doing this on an emergency basis or something. It's not like it's some weird, crazy idea dreamed up a libertarian think tank. This is just normal, ordinary trade.
Big fine by the FDA, quick inspections and testing so the plant gets back to manufacturing in weeks instead of months.in your mind, how should this have played out? With full benefit of hindsight, how would this have worked?
I'm super curious how you get "government should have seen this coming and done something about it" without government controlling a free market.
I know.....we discussed this and then you also had discussion with others as to what could go wrong with it. And honestly, I don't disagree with your suggestion as I hold similar views of our FDA as you do. But in my view, companies shouldn't be relying on government until it's something they couldn't possibly see coming. To me, this is SO basic of a problem, I can't get passed the company's complete ineptness to blame someone else. NO ONE is talking about that reality that I've seen in here. The focus went immediate to government.Hi. I'm a capitalist. I would like to see this problem solved by letting consumers buy formula that was manufactured in Europe and approved for sale in Europe by European regulators. No need for the government to intervene, other than just to get out of the way.
I thought somebody mentioned earlier in the thread, that the Biden administration is actually doing this on an emergency basis or something. It's not like it's some weird, crazy idea dreamed up a libertarian think tank. This is just normal, ordinary trade.
do you think Abbott was sitting on their hands waiting for clearance? Letting the factory sit around, idle, for 3 months waiting for some bookworm in Washington to dot the i's and cross the t's? Come on.Big fine by the FDA, quick inspections and testing so the plant gets back to manufacturing in weeks instead of months.
How many brain cells does it take to realize this isn't just shutting down a facility who's volume would be filled by their competitors? It should have been all hands on deck. I mean they let them keep producing product and babies drinking that product for 4 months before even taking action - the FDA commissioner should be fired for that alone.
Want proof it can be done? As soon as this becomes the #1 headline the FDA commissioner says the plant will be back open in 1-2 weeks.
Blame is separate from solving the immediate problem. You don't think Abbott went about a deep clean as soon as the FDA let them? And wants to get back to manufacturing asap? Let the blame happen later, in court.I know.....we discussed this and then you also had discussion with others as to what could go wrong with it. And honestly, I don't disagree with your suggestion as I hold similar views of our FDA as you do. But in my view, companies shouldn't be relying on government until it's something they couldn't possibly see coming. To me, this is SO basic of a problem, I can't get passed the company's complete ineptness to blame someone else. NO ONE is talking about that reality that I've seen in here. The focus went immediate to government.
Why wouldn't Abbott do everything in their power to get back to manufacturing? That's their business. It's clear as day where the hold up is.do you think Abbott was sitting on their hands waiting for clearance? Letting the factory sit around, idle, for 3 months waiting for some bookworm in Washington to dot the i's and cross the t's? Come on.
According to the FDA, "Abbott staff “have been unwilling or unable to implement sustainable corrective actions to ensure the safety and quality of food manufactured for infants,” leading to the need for legal action, the documents state."Why wouldn't Abbott do everything in their power to get back to manufacturing? That's their business. It's clear as day where the hold up is.
Reads to me like the folks at Abbott didn't think it was a big deal and downplayed the FDA. They know that shutting down is costly, and did everything they could do to prevent it. Why did it take so long to get back up and running? Without being an employee of Abbott's Sturgis facility, I have no idea.Problems at the Abbott Sturgis plant surfaced in September during the F.D.A.’s first routine inspection there since the Covid-19 pandemic began. Inspectors discovered standing water inside the plant and personnel working directly with formula without proper hand hygiene, according to agency documents.
The following month, a whistleblower who worked at the plant filed a complaint under the Food Safety Modernization Act claiming that plant leaders celebrated concealing information from the F.D.A. and omitted key information from official documents.
The F.D.A. returned to the plant on Jan. 31 and discovered persistent problems, including the presence of cronobacter bacteria near production lines, according to agency records.
Even though Abbott’s senior management is now aware of many of the alleged regulatory violations referenced in the foregoing, no serious effort to remedy the violations have been reported to date. Instead, the emphasis appears to be more focused on identifying current employees at the Sturgis site who may have reported concerns to the Complainant. Aside from the mandate of FDA regulations, Abbott’s inaction is directly at odds with the mandate of Sarbanes-Oxley mandating adequate internal controls and the Department of Justice’s policy mandating effective compliance programs.
Abbott’s inaction is also inconsistent with the Corporate Integrity Agreement that it entered into with the Office of Inspector General of the Department of Health and Human Services in May of 2012 as part of a plea agreement. United States v. Abbott Laboratories, No. 12-cr-00026 (W.D. Va., filed May 7, 2012). At the same time, Abbott also entered into settlement agreements with various states. Though not directly applicable to Abbott Nutrition, the core concepts apply in terms of the ongoing obligations on the part of Abbott’s management and board of directors.
It is further submitted that what is being reported is based upon the Complainant’s direct knowledge and, in a few instances, highly credible sources. Throughout his time at Abbott, and even since his departure, others have reported additional concerns that he was unable to verify. In countless situations, he was told by employees that the Sturgis site was like a “house of cards” if employees could speak freely. But the consensus remains that only with the intervention and protections of responsible enforcement officials would employees be inclined to speak freely.