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(Baby Formula Shortage): Biden ADMITS He Knew Of Crisis In Early April (4/27/22 23:53 PST) (1 Viewer)

It’s really shameful. The best I can hope for is that some of these posters (like @IvanKaramazov) really haven’t thought this through. The ones that have- and agree with Gregg Abbott- shame on them. 
If there is a shortage of something, that means some people are going to go without.  We're talking about who should go without: citizens and legal immigrants, or illegal detainees.

If you think it's fair to accuse people like me of wanting to starve brown skinned kids, then it's just as fair for me to accuse you of wanting to starve white Midwestern suburban kids.  Or Hispanic kids in Tuscon.  Or black kids in Detroit.  Obviously that's all wildly unfair and a sign of a diseased mind.

Much better would be to fix the supply constraints.  In the meantime, magical thinking and psychopathic name calling isn't helpful.

 
You're telling Latino parents that they're racist murderers for thinking that, as citizens, their government should place their needs before those of detainees.  Cool.  Run on that and see how it works out for you.

 
If there is a shortage of something, that means some people are going to go without.  We're talking about who should go without: citizens and legal immigrants, or illegal detainees.

If you think it's fair to accuse people like me of wanting to starve brown skinned kids, then it's just as fair for me to accuse you of wanting to starve white Midwestern suburban kids.  Or Hispanic kids in Tuscon.  Or black kids in Detroit.  Obviously that's all wildly unfair and a sign of a diseased mind.

Much better would be to fix the supply constraints.  In the meantime, magical thinking and psychopathic name calling isn't helpful.
:own3d:

 
Has tim or anyone advocated for not feeding American babies?  For keeping formula from American mothers?  I don't believe so.

Yet...those who seem most opposed to abortion, who value life...are actively advocating the babies we have detained as a country should be last in line for formula.  Babies who have no crime of their own...they didn't come here willingly and get locked up.

How in the world do you all reconcile a right to life or saying you are for all life...yet those must go to the back of the line?

How about...those companies honor their government contracts (though, perhaps something should be looked into how those contracts get filled first)...but we figure out a way to spread it out a bit better.  And no idea how to enforce who is buying formula must be for use rather than for resale.  Im all for upping penalties for reselling such goods.

 
Has tim or anyone advocated for not feeding American babies?  For keeping formula from American mothers?  I don't believe so.

Yet...those who seem most opposed to abortion, who value life...are actively advocating the babies we have detained as a country should be last in line for formula.  Babies who have no crime of their own...they didn't come here willingly and get locked up.

How in the world do you all reconcile a right to life or saying you are for all life...yet those must go to the back of the line?

How about...those companies honor their government contracts (though, perhaps something should be looked into how those contracts get filled first)...but we figure out a way to spread it out a bit better.  And no idea how to enforce who is buying formula must be for use rather than for resale.  Im all for upping penalties for reselling such goods.
The point is that if there is a shortage of baby formula, somebody is going to be last in line.  I think that somebody should be non-citizens.  If you disagree, you are saying whether you mean to or not that citizens should come last.  It's a zero sum problem, after all.

I'm really comfortable with my stance, and I would welcome putting it up for a vote.

 
"I think the government should prioritize the needs of illegal detainees over American citizens" is one of those views that helps explain why Latinos, Asians, and even black people to some degree are trending away from the Democratic party.  Progressives are building a multiracial coalition of people united in their contempt for progressives.

 
TBH, I thought this story was made up the first couple of times I encountered it.  I'm genuinely kind of surprised that it's apparently real.  "There is a nationwide shortage of baby formula and the Biden administration is ensuring that illegal immigrants detained at the border get enough while citizens face empty shelves" just sounds like fake news that you'd expect to see on Aunt Betty's Facebook feed.  

I still halfway expect to find out that this is a hoax or something.  I only believe it because it's been picked up by people who I trust.  If it wasn't for that, I would deem it non-credible.  It sets off way too many BS detectors to just run with it.

 
The point is that if there is a shortage of baby formula, somebody is going to be last in line.  I think that somebody should be non-citizens.  If you disagree, you are saying whether you mean to or not that citizens should come last.  It's a zero sum problem, after all.

I'm really comfortable with my stance, and I would welcome putting it up for a vote.
I think my point is that we figure out a way to spread it out so there really isn't a last in line (besides hoarders and those trying to buy it for resale).

I think operating on a "lets decide which babies don't get formula" is a pretty harsh thing to be doing.  But yes...we must do it.  I don't think you are acting poorly or anything like that...just think its a hard push to tell the government not to keep their contracts and help feed those we have detained.  

 
"I think the government should prioritize the needs of illegal detainees over American citizens" is one of those views that helps explain why Latinos, Asians, and even black people to some degree are trending away from the Democratic party.  Progressives are building a multiracial coalition of people united in their contempt for progressives.
Who has said this?  Who has said prioritize them over citizens.  Again...I don't believe that is the point tim or others are making.  I could easily be wrong...have not read every word they have typed on this.

 
I think my point is that we figure out a way to spread it out so there really isn't a last in line (besides hoarders and those trying to buy it for resale).
This is what I mean by magical thinking.  There's no way to make a shortage disappear by just spreading out the available supply.  If there was, there wouldn't be a shortage.

 
If there is a shortage of something, that means some people are going to go without.  We're talking about who should go without: citizens and legal immigrants, or illegal detainees.

If you think it's fair to accuse people like me of wanting to starve brown skinned kids, then it's just as fair for me to accuse you of wanting to starve white Midwestern suburban kids.  Or Hispanic kids in Tuscon.  Or black kids in Detroit.  Obviously that's all wildly unfair and a sign of a diseased mind.

Much better would be to fix the supply constraints.  In the meantime, magical thinking and psychopathic name calling isn't helpful.
@Toby2ElectricBugaloo made it pretty straightforward. You either feed these kids, or you let them and their parents go, or you starve them. Those are your only choices. If you are truly concerned about a shortage then you let them go. But I cant believe that anyone is in favor of detaining them and not feeding them. Is that really what you want? 

 
We have a responsibility to feed those we detain. That includes criminals in prison, migrants at the border, and anyone else we have locked away. If we don’t have the resources to feed them, then we have to let them go. Period. 
 

This subject was actually adjudicated in the trial of the Confederate commander of Andersonville after the Civil War. He was charged with the equivalent of war crimes for allowing the prisoners there to starve to death. His defense was that he didn’t have the means to feed them. The court ruled that he should have let them free rather than keep them penned up to starve to death. 

 
@Toby2ElectricBugaloo made it pretty straightforward. You either feed these kids, or you let them and their parents go, or you starve them. Those are your only choices. If you are truly concerned about a shortage then you let them go. But I cant believe that anyone is in favor of detaining them and not feeding them. Is that really what you want? 


They CAN go.  They can go home. 

 
This is what I mean by magical thinking.  There's no way to make a shortage disappear by just spreading out the available supply.  If there was, there wouldn't be a shortage.


So, you want to pick and choose which babies are fed, and possibly get to live, and which ones don’t? Please don’t read into my tone, I’m just kind of surprised, and interested that you are making this particular argument as a pro-lifer. I didn’t think nationality would make one whit of difference to anyone with that mindset, so am very curious about what I’m seeing here and elsewhere. Please don’t take this as a gotcha, I’m genuinely curious. Wouldn’t it be more in line with pro-life to feed any and all comers until the food runs out? 

 
We have a responsibility to feed those we detain. That includes criminals in prison, migrants at the border, and anyone else we have locked away. If we don’t have the resources to feed them, then we have to let them go. Period. 
 

This subject was actually adjudicated in the trial of the Confederate commander of Andersonville after the Civil War. He was charged with the equivalent of war crimes for allowing the prisoners there to starve to death. His defense was that he didn’t have the means to feed them. The court ruled that he should have let them free rather than keep them penned up to starve to death. 
How long did this google search take. 

 
So, you want to pick and choose which babies are fed, and possibly get to live, and which ones don’t? Please don’t read into my tone, I’m just kind of surprised, and interested that you are making this particular argument as a pro-lifer. I didn’t think nationality would make one whit of difference to anyone with that mindset, so am very curious about what I’m seeing here and elsewhere. Please don’t take this as a gotcha, I’m genuinely curious. Wouldn’t it be more in line with pro-life to feed any and all comers until the food runs out? 
Of course not.  I want to make more baby formula.

In the meantime, some people are going to go without.  I'm not advocating for that outcome.  I'm just acknowledging that that's apparently our reality.  

 
The existence of a shortage means we have no choice but to pick and choose how to allocate what we've got.  There are a bunch of ways to do this.  We could use the price mechanism, which you'll condemn as price gouging.  We could use the who's-willing-to-wait-in-line-the-longest method.  We could go by Tim's Antietam thing. 

Whatever method you pick, somebody's kid is going to go hungry.  I'd prefer that that be someone who isn't American.  You want it to be a Latino kid in Michigan.  Cool.  Let's settle this with a vote.

Or we could just import formula from Europe or Mexico or someplace.

 
Again you’re ignoring the fact that they have to be processed. 
WHY ARE YOU IN FAVOR OF STARVING CHILDREN HAVENT YOU EVER HEARD OF ANTIETAM YOU INHUMAN MONSTER 

Just kidding.  Obviously we can cut some bureaucratic corners if the alternative is starvation.

 
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This is what I mean by magical thinking.  There's no way to make a shortage disappear by just spreading out the available supply.  If there was, there wouldn't be a shortage.
Oh...yeah, there still could easily be a shortage.  as what we have seen (as we always do), there are people hoarding things.  Or looking to profit from the situation.

 
Sorry Tim.  After this morning I don't take anything you say at face value.  Do you have proof that an illegal can't say they want to go home and be sent home? 
Do you have proof that they can just say that?  Since you have been claiming they can do so?

 
The existence of a shortage means we have no choice but to pick and choose how to allocate what we've got.  There are a bunch of ways to do this.  We could use the price mechanism, which you'll condemn as price gouging.  We could use the who's-willing-to-wait-in-line-the-longest method.  We could go by Tim's Antietam thing. 

Whatever method you pick, somebody's kid is going to go hungry.  I'd prefer that that be someone who isn't American.  You want it to be a Latino kid in Michigan.  Cool.  Let's settle this with a vote.

Or we could just import formula from Europe or Mexico or someplace.
Sure...but lets not then start claiming that the Biden administration wants to let hungry american kids starve to feed illegals.  Because that is not a very honest assessment of the situation that some have been pushing IMO.

 
Oh...yeah, there still could easily be a shortage.  as what we have seen (as we always do), there are people hoarding things.  Or looking to profit from the situation.
It's not hoarders though.  My understanding, which might be wrong because I still can't fully believe that this story is real, is that we shut down a domestic manufacturing plant and have made it illegal to import formula from abroad.  That'll do it.

 
Of course not.  I want to make more baby formula.

In the meantime, some people are going to go without.  I'm not advocating for that outcome.  I'm just acknowledging that that's apparently our reality.  
I’m just not sure why nationalities should make a difference in advocating for feeding or not feeding certain babies. Adults? Ok. Babies? You pass out food until it’s gone to the hungry babies in front of you, imo.

 
Sure...but lets not then start claiming that the Biden administration wants to let hungry american kids starve to feed illegals.  Because that is not a very honest assessment of the situation that some have been pushing IMO.
I agree!  Its a wildly unfair, sociopathic accusation.  Of course nobody wants kids to starve.

Now tell that to tim and that toby person.

 
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It's not hoarders though.  My understanding, which might be wrong because I still can't fully believe that this story is real, is that we shut down a domestic manufacturing plant and have made it illegal to import formula from abroad.  That'll do it.
Well yeah, it was shut due to multiple infants getting sick (and I believe 2 died).

I agree that we should work on importing as well.

But we do seem to have people hoarding (or likely did at the start...now limited on quanitity) and we are seeing formula pop up on Ebay where people went out to profit on this as well.

 
Well yeah, it was shut due to multiple infants getting sick (and I believe 2 died).

I agree that we should work on importing as well.

But we do seem to have people hoarding (or likely did at the start...now limited on quanitity) and we are seeing formula pop up on Ebay where people went out to profit on this as well.
But scalpers are just responding to a shortage that exists independently of them.  They didn't create the shortage.  Nobody hoards Similac under normal conditions.

 
It's not hoarders though.  My understanding, which might be wrong because I still can't fully believe that this story is real, is that we shut down a domestic manufacturing plant and have made it illegal to import formula from abroad.  That'll do it.
Yep. There was a whistleblower situation after a few babies died. From what I understand, there are some hurdles to bring baby food from abroad, because of FDA standards.

 
What happens when there are more babies than food to feed them?
You figure it out if that happens. Would you stop feeding one of your children if you don’t have enough food for one of them? Or do you keep feeding them both, and try to figure out a way to make a keep working. That’s what you do, no? And if they had a friend staying with us, I would feed them, too. I wouldn’t let them starve, either.

 
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I agree!  Its a wildly unfair, sociopathic accusation.  Of course nobody wants kids to starve.

Now tell that to tim and that toby person.
I don’t believe that you or anyone else here want people to starve. 
What I don’t like is the divisiveness, the either-or situation (it’s the illegals vs the rest of us) that Abbott and other politicians are promoting (which in my mind makes them awful people) and which apparently you are accepting (which doesn’t make you awful but it does make you wrong.) 

 
Sorry Tim.  After this morning I don't take anything you say at face value.  Do you have proof that an illegal can't say they want to go home and be sent home? 
Yes. 
https://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-immigration/detention-removal-proceedings-bond-process.html

Leaving detention is a very complicated process. It can take weeks or months, usually the latter. 
So again please answer the question: while these folks are in detention with their families  should we feed their children? Yes or no? 

 
I don’t think it’s a fine line to say that Greg Abbott is an awful human being. Let’s be clear: he is awful for suggesting that our government should stop providing formula to the babies of undocumented immigrants who currently being detained in camps. That’s the awful part. 
 

ETA he’s a lousy guy for many other reasons as well, but this one is probably the top of the list, 


Direct Headline: Baby formula shortage has some families scrambling

Retailers nationwide have struggled to keep shelves fully stocked with all kinds of everyday necessities as supply chain problems persist, slowing down both production and distribution of goods. At the same time, consumer demand remains robust....According to market research firm IRI, stores' infant formula inventories in mid-January were down 17% from where they were in mid-February 2020, just before the pandemic hit US shores....Drugstore chain Walgreens, which had alerted its customers about isolated formula shortages at its stores nationwide in November, said it is still facing tight inventory.....Similac-maker Abbott stated it's running its production facilities at full capacity 24/7 and is "manufacturing more than we ever have."....

By Parija Kavilanz, CNN Business  6:51 AM ET, Tue February 8, 2022

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/08/business/baby-formula-shortages/index.html

Direct Headline: The FDA Was Making It Difficult For Moms To Get Baby Formula Long Before The Supply Chain Imploded

As the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is quick to point out, they do not “approve” infant formula, but they do require manufacturers to meet certain requirements to be considered “FDA-registered.” The nutrition and quality control requirements for formulas are implemented by statute, the Infant Formula Act of 1980, and it’s the FDA’s job to enforce those federal law requirements, including the verification of imported European formulas that don’t meet their often-debated standards....This is an important distinction because it’s also the smokescreen the FDA will likely hide behind as they are pressed to loosen restrictions on importing formulas amidst the ongoing crisis of mothers staring down empty shelves in the supermarket. When angry moms ask why their European formula orders were seized by U.S. Customs and Border Patrol, experts and FDA defenders point to the federal statute as a “their hands are tied” excuse.....It is not illegal to import formulas into the United States, but any formula imported must be from a manufacturer that is FDA-registered, which entails meeting their strict rules for products and labels. Despite what media or some American doctors say, European formulas are not unsafe, and are preferred by many American moms.....The other main difference is the level of iron required by the FDA, which again, doctors and experts disagree on. A simplified explanation of the argument comes down to Americans perceiving Europeans as putting too little iron in their formula, while the Europeans think Americans put too much.....After watching the FDA authorize vaccines for “emergency use” for two years, many American moms and dads are wondering when feeding their babies will be considered an “emergency”?

By: Madeline Osburn May 12, 2022

https://thefederalist.com/2022/05/12/the-fda-was-making-it-difficult-for-moms-to-get-baby-formula-long-before-the-supply-chain-imploded/

Direct HeadlineU.S. Dairy Highlights Supply Chain Challenges at White House Roundtable

National Milk Producers Federation (NMPF) and U.S. Dairy Export Council (USDEC) Executive Vice President for Policy Jaime Castaneda joined members of the Biden-Harris Administration’s Supply Chain Disruptions Task Force to discuss the challenges facing the export industry regarding current supply chain disruptions....“These issues warrant the focus of the entire federal government in order to address the negative economic effects on both businesses and consumers from these challenges,”...

Since the onset of COVID in early 2020, supply chains have been severely imbalanced, with significant consequences for many American industries. ...."this export crisis may well result in irreparable harm to American agriculture as customers around the world are questioning the U.S. dairy industry’s reliability as a supplier.”.....

NMPF November 12, 2021

https://www.nmpf.org/u-s-dairy-highlights-supply-chain-challenges-at-white-house-roundtable/

Direct Headline: Biden rips Trump over handling of food supply disruptions

By Philip Brasher 05/20/20 3:45 PM

https://www.agri-pulse.com/articles/13737-biden-rips-trump-over-handling-of-food-supply-disruptions

Direct Headline Biden's Plan To Reduce Shortages Of Products That Are Critical For National Security

Tuesday's announcement follows the administration's 100-day supply chain review, the result of an executive order Biden signed in February....The review was tasked with studying four key sectors: pharmaceuticals; semiconductor chips;large capacity batteries, such as those used in electric vehicles; and critical minerals....

Asma Khalid June 8, 2021 12:01 PM ET

https://www.npr.org/2021/06/08/1004191828/how-the-biden-white-house-aims-to-address-risks-to-u-s-supply-chains

******

Major retailers were alerting parents about shortages in baby formula and major dairy/milk producers indicated a national threat point in November of 2021. A nearly 20 percent dip in baby formula production was widespread and statistically accepted in January 2021.

The MSM began heavily covering the exponentially growing shortage of baby formula in depth in early February 2022.

Two years ago from about today, Biden publicly criticized Trump over food shortages for every day working class American citizens.

About a year go, Biden made a large number of press releases about "fixing the supply chain"  Sure, for his vision of a country full of electric cars. Also to make sure Big Pharma got their political pork since they donate so much to politicians on both sides of the aisle, up and down the ticket, counting in the billions in aggregate, from high powered lobbyists.

The problem with baby formula was apparent in January of 2021. The looming tipping point for the crisis was November of 2021. The mass mainstream media was literally pushing it in Biden's face in February of 2022.

What does any of this have to do with Greg Abbott?

How much lead time does Biden need to make sure American infants don't starve?

 
Do we know what all the conditions in play here are?

If mothers capable of nursing are being held in facilities separate from their infants, make alterations to policies and give them the opportunity to nurse.

If those detained are not being allowed to leave the US immediately, change that. Let them. Now. 

Let's pick the low-hanging fruit. We don't have to throw our arms and say, "oh well, what can you do, so much red tape."

 
I don’t believe that you or anyone else here want people to starve. 
What I don’t like is the divisiveness, the either-or situation (it’s the illegals vs the rest of us) that Abbott and other politicians are promoting (which in my mind makes them awful people) and which apparently you are accepting (which doesn’t make you awful but it does make you wrong.) 


No one cares what you don't like.

The Biden Administration allowed the Southern Border to become a swinging gate. Millions of illegal immigrants have crossed over. They are being supported with our tax dollars. Those already with infants or those pregnant who had those children drove up the demand for baby formula

The Biden Administration is neck deep in the supply chain issues, shortages and the rapid inflation we are all seeing. So he's done his part to reduce the overall potential supply of baby formula.

This is a resource management issue first and foremost. There are a certain number of infants who need formula and not enough formula to go around. Someone is going to get short changed here.

No American mother is going to be satisfied with the answer that her infant has to starve so she can pay her tax dollars to make sure baby formula is going to non citizens over a problem that Biden literally catalyzed out of thin air to the detriment to all working class American citizens.

 
Oh...yeah, there still could easily be a shortage. 
How did you make it past the first post thinking there may not be a shortage?  It's right there in the thread title.

Step #1 - come to the realization that there really is a shortage.

Step #2 - post things that don't contradict the fact you learned in Step #1

 
Yes. 
https://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-immigration/detention-removal-proceedings-bond-process.html

Leaving detention is a very complicated process. It can take weeks or months, usually the latter. 
So again please answer the question: while these folks are in detention with their families  should we feed their children? Yes or no? 


Dude, that link says NOTHING about an illegal ASKING to leave the U.S..   Quit wasting my time.  That's twice today.  Just stop.

 
So again please answer the question: while these folks are in detention with their families  should we feed their children? Yes or no? 


The mindset seems to be no, let the infants starve to death so we can direct what little baby formula is being used for the undocumented (even though they have no other way of obtaining it while in detention) in favor of the "more deserving" actual American citizens, who actually can in theory make their own formula from links I am seeing on Twitter with photos of ads from 1960 (disclaimer I don't how safe that is in 2022)

https://twitter.com/AmericaPlayed1/status/1523995268882042881

 
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