ghostguy123
Footballguy
That's great, except the part where his career ended 5 years ago
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2024 Cleveland Browns - Open at Home v Dallas (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter amnesiac
- Start date
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Well, what do you think of Kenny Pickett currently ranked below Mac Jones? Is Pittsburgh set at QB or do they need an upgrade?
Pittsburgh is lacking a QB going forward putting them in a huge hole against the rest of the division.
They built up that defense, spent more than any other team and neglected the QB position. They drafted a 24-year-old RB in the first round and began drafting massive run blockers on the O-Line so they are 'competitive' and viable but not built to win against AFC powerhouses.
The Ravens are completely dependent on Lamar staying healthy an entire season and then breaking his playoff curse. Other than that, they haven't been able to land a WR for years.
The Bengals have Joe and Chase, but Joe is 1-5 against the Browns.
From last year before he actually won a game against the Browns. LINK to video
The Bengals D is OK but isn't on par with the rest of the division.
This year, the Browns QB play has been statistically the worst in the entire league with DeShaun trying to find his way back and horrific injury fill-ins, but Stefanski has coached and schemed through that and the loss of both starting OTs and the second-best RB in the league and dealt with a slew of other injuries.
We unmistakenly witnessed DeShaun click in the second half against the Ravens with a broken bone in his shoulder showing toughness and the ability to battle and overcome a team that lead the entire game at their stadium in front of their wives and children.
The Browns have the same record as Pittsburgh without Pickett-level QB play and with, not normal amount or typical injuries, but double-digit injuries with critical players out for the year.
Unless people just 'assume' Watson will be out or injured for the remainder of his career he puts the Brown right in the mix with the best teams in the league, see Cleveland SNAP San Francisco's 15-0 regular season win streak and take down the Ravens at their place when both were touted as the best in the league, oh and we beat SF with F'ng PJ Walker at QB. PJ F'ng WALKER!
Yeah, I think we're the best team in this division when all the teams are healthy. I say so.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
I had no desire to get into a big debate with you. I just thought that stating the Browns were the best team "by far" was a bit much.
The Browns starting defense might be the best in division but have given up more points than the Ravens, who have played one additional game. The Browns also have the best RB in division in Nick Chubb, no argument there. The Bengals and Ravens have better QBs and the Bengals WRs are better than the Browns. The Ravens have the best TE.
But just comparing starters doesn't tell the whole story. To say you're the best team "by-far" you need to include the whole team, which includes special teams and backups. No NFL team is ever exempt from injuries and when building a team you need to take this into consideration.
In any case, none of this debate amounts to anything. There have been great teams on paper but all that matters is what happens on the field. If every team stayed 100% healthy the Browns may have won the division but we'll never know.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Absolutely fair but you asked and I didn't just reply, I gave reasons to back my take so civil and fair discourse can exist between Brown and Steeler faithful, but it has been a one-sided discourse till recently so be prepared for more in the future.
rockaction
Footballguy
Maybe you'll go into the Steelers and Jets threads again and tell them what a wonderful guy Myles Garrett is.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Mental health check on isle Rock again.
rockaction
Footballguy
Careful. I don't report stuff like that, but I've been suspended for less.
Just so you know I'm implicated too, T & P goes out to you and your mental health, too, Bracie. I'll doff my cap to the sounds of your intellectual feeblery.
beer 30
Footballguy
Something else to consider, with DTR you can kind of keep the same offense you've been running all year which was based around Watson's skill set. Joe Flacco is not a comparable to Watson/DTR so you're installing a new offense or at best, dumbing yours down this week. Yea that's what they get paid to do but it still doesn't make it any easier to go from a mobile, RPO type QB to an old, pocket passer that ain't running unless the world is coming to an end.
rockaction
Footballguy
I initially thought Joe Flacco was the worst thing the Browns could do, but after reading this thread, I'm not so sure it won't benefit the Browns. DTR and Walker were really, really bad. The problem is that Flacco is an absolute statue back there, but I'm not sure with a good line and a quality receiver or two that he'll be as bad as I thought.
Best of luck anyway, I guess.
Best of luck anyway, I guess.
Peak
Footballguy
I agree with Mac. I don't mind Ruiter, but he has some very odd, and often bad takes. He'll report the news quickly, but his opinions seem to be off the wall to me. He is one that I take with a grain of salt, but he's not as bad as the MKC or Grossi. He can get to that level at times, but not often. He's tolerable to me, if I'm just looking for news/updates.
beer 30
Footballguy
Tony been mailing it in for years, I got no use for his writing. Whoever said Ruiter is a Grossi in training, that's exactly how I feel. More negative than not just seems like he likes to ***** about the team. When they are doing well he doesn't say much but when they are having trouble he just piles on with everyone else. Doesn't do anything for me.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I think DTR's improving. I'm disregarding the Ravens game due to the circumstances that led up to it, but while the middle of the game was bad he started and finished the Steelers game well. The start of the Denver game wasn't pretty, but once he settled in the offense began to put things together. I think we were on our way to a dub until he got knocked out. I expect it to be official in a few hours, but I am preparing for Flacco this weekend. Maybe Stefanski can scheme and Schwartz bend-but-don't-break us to a ~21-16 win, but regardless I'm optimistic about what we can do once we return home.
rockaction
Footballguy
You are or aren't? I think you're missing a "not optimistic" here.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I'm optimistic and what could sway it has more to do with Garrett's shoulder than DTR. I've seen enough out of DTR to think we could do some damage with him under center so long as he has the defense behind him that we've had to this point. My opinion will sway violently the other way if Garrett's operating closer to 60-70% than 80-90% as him playing injured (not hurt) will have a domino effect on the rest of our defense.
rockaction
Footballguy
Oh, I see. I thought you were out on the Browns this year, but I guess not.
I personally am not optimistic about the Browns' chances, but I took a look at the schedule and there's reason for optimism. You face the Rams, Houston, and Jacksonville (all formidable) but also the Jets, Bengals, and Bears.
Could be 10-7 when it's all said and done and that could get you in. There's Denver, Houston, and Buffalo on your tails. The rest are all pretenders at 5-7 and 4-7.
MAC_32
Footballguy
This week's game is another major test for Stefanski. Everything is stacked against them after an injury filled week 12, they're likely starting an old statue off the street at QB, the #1 WR isn't going to be healthy (assuming he plays), your future HoF d end is hobbled, you're drawing a relatively fresh opponent that's emerged out of their bye week hot, and you've now been on the road > a week. When everything seemed to be working against them to this point in the year, the team bought in and rallied together anyway:
TEN after losing Chubb and Watson's disastrous performance in Pittsburgh
SF after the egg DTR laid hosting the then undefeated 9ers
PIT after losing Watson for the season on the heels of arguably the Browns biggest win in ~3 decades
Can he rally the troops again? I'd bet on it. It's weird writing this about a Browns teams, but they've been resilient. Every other Browns team I've ever rooted for would have crumbled a while ago given what's happened, but this one keeps doing like Jason Vorhees. It may not be enough to net a dub this week, but a springboard into the home stretch? I think so.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
random tweek I found amazing (or rather, kudos for being 7-4 despite this)
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
It is amazing that our head coach has been able to handle four different starting QBs and hasn't had more than 3 starts in a row by any this year and is three games above 500 yet some fans take any opportunity to complain about one call made during a loss blaming the coach for the loss due to one call. They miss the big picture.
Oh, and that is only the shuffling that has had to happen at the quarterback position. When factoring in all of the other injuries anyone blaming a loss on one call doesn't get how great a job Stefanski has done this year.
I've seen huge growth as a leader by Stefanski that hasn't been spoken of by most.
I had doubts about his leadership in the past, not anymore. The guy is doing a great job.
that has been my point all along. Flacco is at least starting calibre. Granted on the low end of the starting spectrum but good enough to keep the defense honest so they cant key on the run. and a solid game manager. with this o line and this defense that may be good enough.
yep. hes been winning with smoke and mirrors (and a good defense) but you gotta give him credit. win by whatever means necessary. and the QB situation has not been good but he found a way to keep them competitive. You cant argue with that.
WaltonGoggins
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
We lose three starting QBs, down to washed street FA QB. Won't bother with the litany of other injuries other than two key defenders, CB Denzel Ward and DE Myles Garrett. Don't tell me Myles suited up, that wasn't Myles the last game and a half when he notched ZEROs, tackles, sacks, FF, FR, PDs, TFL, assists. ZEROs. Half or a quarter of Myles Garrett is not a quality starting NFL DE. Our team pass rush pressure rate fell by over half yesterday. Coincidence? No. He IS our pass rush period.
Denzel out without pressure KILLED US yesterday. (in a thick Scottish brogue) Muuuuurdaaah.
We have a 5-1 record at home this year on the basis of our defense 'WHEN HEALTHY' or at least with Myles healthy but he's not healthy and we can't pressure the QB. This is not the same defense we had a few weeks back.
beer 30
Footballguy
We're not going to be healthy for the rest of the year. Myles is as good as he's going to be unless he takes a few weeks off or goes under the knife. I don't know what's wrong with him but he ain't gonna make it better by playing. Ward isn't and won't be healthy pretty much ever. He's great when he's on the field but he's at a point in his career where he needs to start looking long term and think about hanging up the cleats. Those two alone take our Super Bowl caliber defense down to middle of the road or below.
The offense is a mess with all the injuries and now we lose Cooper and our OL continues to disintegrate through injury. Not real sure what to say at this point but I was optimistic going into the road trip that we would split. We didn't, Jacksonville is a tough game, Texans are a tough game. Jets? Yea maybe. Bears? Yea maybe. Cincy? Yea maybe? I don't see any outright wins at this point given the rash of recent injuries.
Peak
Footballguy
Welp....If the Defense would've been hungrier, maybe the outcome would've been different. But Flacco did all that I expected out of him. Led a few good drives, kept their defense honest, made one stupid mistake that led to a turnover. Not bad for someone who came in off the street. Now the issues with the penalties and the defense without Ward and Garrett need to be addressed.
beer 30
Footballguy
At this point in the season, what does that look like?
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Man, this just sucks.
Just think if the Browns had Watson, Chubb, the entire O-Line healthy, Amari healthy, and the whole D healthy.
AND, the Jags had Trev and their entire team healthy...
This would be an epic game to watch but instead we get backup QBs and two teams limping into what 'should' be a great game.
The NFL is a game of attrition at this point in the season because injuries have completely zapped the health of both teams.
The NFL has added TOO MANY GAMES in a money grab and their greed has destroyed the essence of what used to be a great sport.
Just think if the Browns had Watson, Chubb, the entire O-Line healthy, Amari healthy, and the whole D healthy.
AND, the Jags had Trev and their entire team healthy...
This would be an epic game to watch but instead we get backup QBs and two teams limping into what 'should' be a great game.
The NFL is a game of attrition at this point in the season because injuries have completely zapped the health of both teams.
The NFL has added TOO MANY GAMES in a money grab and their greed has destroyed the essence of what used to be a great sport.
Going from 14 to 16 then to 17 was a money grab for players and owners. I think QB injuries are related to the increase in passing attempts exposing them to more hits. Players are also faster bigger and stronger. OTOH, there is almost no preseason exposure for most players and total injuries have gone down. Maybe this season is just bad luck for QBs.
Injury Data Since 2015
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beer 30
Footballguy
Yes, was coming to say the same. I know pre-season hits take a toll, especially when you are talking guys that have played 5+ years but you have to go through that grind to get ready for the abuse of the season. You won't convince me otherwise.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
This isn't a playoff team
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
If the AFC playoffs started today this would be half of the starting quarterbacks.
Jacksonville - CJ Beathard for Trevor Lawrence
Pittsburgh - Mitchell Tubisky for Kenny Pickett
Cleveland - Joe Flacco for DeShaun Watson
Indianapolis - Gardner Minshew for Anthony Richardson
None of them are playoff contenders with those starting QBs so EVERYONE that qualifies is a watered down playoff team.
beer 30
Footballguy
Tend to agree with Bracie, somebody out of this pile of dreck is going into the playoffs, maybe two teams so why not the Browns.
Why I also tend to agree with the ghost is without Myles Garrett, this defense is pretty much sunk. I'm not sure Ward comes back healthy enough to make it the rest of the season so without a the defense we had at the beginning of the year, we ain't going nowhere.
amnesiac
beer is good
NOT WITH THAT ATTITUDE
ghostguy123
Footballguy
It is what it is
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Yes
beer 30
Footballguy
Yes, yes, no
Peak
Footballguy
I don't remember you being such a downer.....wow....things are going well and there's finally some sunshining on the once dreary edges of Lake Erie...then her you come with your Eeyore attitude and rain clouds.
Maybe so, but this is a year where so many Starting QB have gone down that the playoff teams are the ones where the QB went down late or teams who had an adequate backup. basically its the last man standing who will win haha.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Over/under on this week's game is 30
WaltonGoggins
Footballguy
as long as Bengals win the Browns, win or lose this Sunday, will still be in playoffs.
Doesnt matter but if Pats win Thursday Texans slide into the final playoff spot.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
amnesiac
beer is good
even if Lawrence plays, i can't imagine he's going to be able to move very well.
if they get home on him early, it's going to be a long day for the Jags.
i'm actually feeling pretty good about this game.
maybe it's just because it'll be the first game i've been to in a while.
abrunn1133
Footballguy
Is there a scenario where TLaw plays, is very limited like you say, and they actually utilize ETN in the passing game? Also, can Jags wonks comment on which of the WRs would benefit from TLaw being limited to 3-step drops/first looks?
