2017 New York Jets: Robby Anderson has been arrested in Florida for the second straight offseason. This is why we can't have nice things. (3 Viewers)

[Fariq]

I dont think Hack sniffs a game....he must be so bad that its better to have him suck in private then roll him out there to completely humiliate himself and the organization....to not even give a high 2d rd pick a start in 2 losing seasons is mind boggling and never been done before....huge mark on Mac's record. 

I can think of a few 2nd rounders off the top of my head who didn't play much- Glenn Carano, Mike Elkins, Tony Sacca, Mike Blundin (some of these guys were on good teams). You can look them up to see how many starts they had, but I think that Hackenberg would not become the first ever 2nd rounder to not make any starts his first two seasons for losing teams.

Heck, Philip Rivers was a 1st round selection who did not start any games his first two seasons.  

edit: I do understand your point and concern, though.

 

[Fariq]

and here we go.....

Jets coach Todd Bowles said Josh McCown "is our quarterback."

The Jets are essentially out of playoff contention, but Bowles is not ready to see what Bryce Petty or Christian Hackenberg can do. That could change once the Jets are officially eliminated, but Ralph Vacchiano of SNY reports the team has "no plans currently" to get Petty or Hackenberg in a game. In a good matchup at home against the Chiefs, McCown will be a quality streamer this week.

I cannot blame Bowles here. If he feels he is coaching for his job and he thinks Petty and Hackenberg stink, then he will be playing McCown.

 

[Fariq]

Exactly. Giants have 1 bad year and they're gonna get a franchise QB ( possibly). Jets will slog their way to 6 and 10 and draft another corner at 11

Seems about right

Well, now they might as the current regime has moved on from Eli Manning. Of course, a new GM and coach could be brought on board, but new guys would likely want to pick their own quarterback anyway, so....

For the Jets fans who are jealous of the Giants and fear Sam Rosen Jackson-Allen going there, you will have to root for Davis Webb to look good in December.

As for the Jets, they might actually slog their way to 6-10 and draft a cornerback in the first round. That would almost certainly mean they acquired a veteran quarterback earlier in the offseason. If the Jets finish 6-10 and don't get a veteran quarterback, they will be in position to draft a quarterback without moving up the way I see things especially if Jimmy Garoppolo looks good with the 49ers. Lamar Jackson, Josh Rosen, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Mason Rudolph, Clayton Thorson, and I suppose Josh Allen all have NFL potential. I have seen all play but not enough to grade them with any certainty. Keep in mind several of these guys may go back to school. The combine and pro days and extensive tape review and interviews will cause these guys to be considered bums one day in February and the next Tom Brady in March. You know how that goes.    

I don't see a reason to panic right now. 

 

[Kiddnets]

Still trying to process how the Giants can bench Eli for Geno yet the Jets refuse to bench McCown for a high 2d rd pick.....I agree Giants botched how it was done but they dd the right thing in my eyes.  

I get that Bowles is coaching for his job - but so is Macadoo....more so in that these last few games are his audition for a OC next yr and a HC in the future....he obviously knows deep down that Eli is much better....so someone in the Giant organization understands that losing out is critical to the long term success of the franchise and got the coach on board....that is why the Giants are a top team that wins....they are getting destroyed for it in the media but all they care about is landing a potential stud QB to lead the team for the next decade.  They should have done it in a better way but gotta be honest....I admire the Giants doing what needs to be done.  There is a reason why they win and the jets are on a cycle of mediocrity! 

BTW - on Rivers sitting for 2 yrs - he had a studly Drew Brees in front of him if I recall and the teams were pretty good....Jets have had 36+ yr old journeyman in awful season the last 2 yrs and are not playing their 2d rd pick....either Hack is epic bad where a high 2d rd pick can't take a snap in back to back 4-6 win seasons.....if so Mac deserves the axe as well or they are completely gun shy and stupid and still deserve to go....The Johnson brothers should be ashamed.  

 

[msommer]

Still trying to process how the Giants can bench Eli for Geno yet the Jets refuse to bench McCown for a high 2d rd pick.....I agree Giants botched how it was done but they dd the right thing in my eyes.  

I get that Bowles is coaching for his job - but so is Macadoo....more so in that these last few games are his audition for a OC next yr and a HC in the future....he obviously knows deep down that Eli is much better....so someone in the Giant organization understands that losing out is critical to the long term success of the franchise and got the coach on board....that is why the Giants are a top team that wins....they are getting destroyed for it in the media but all they care about is landing a potential stud QB to lead the team for the next decade.  They should have done it in a better way but gotta be honest....I admire the Giants doing what needs to be done.  There is a reason why they win and the jets are on a cycle of mediocrity! 

BTW - on Rivers sitting for 2 yrs - he had a studly Drew Brees in front of him if I recall and the teams were pretty good....Jets have had 36+ yr old journeyman in awful season the last 2 yrs and are not playing their 2d rd pick....either Hack is epic bad where a high 2d rd pick can't take a snap in back to back 4-6 win seasons.....if so Mac deserves the axe as well or they are completely gun shy and stupid and still deserve to go....The Johnson brothers should be ashamed.  

Not sure MacAdoo hasn't bought himself more time by accepting this course from his GM or owner. Obviously if this is from Mara it holds more weight and if Reese is gone, well....

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I cannot blame Bowles here. If he feels he is coaching for his job and he thinks Petty and Hackenberg stink, then he will be playing McCown.

In order for a franchise to function properly there must be a firm hierarchy in place. That's the problem with having a bumbling fool like Woody Johnson ultimately running the show and having the VP, GM and HC all report to him on different planes. The VP of Football Operations and the GM should be able to tell the coach what to do to a certain extent - not so much every detail of game-day minutia but certainly as to long term goals and the overall health of the franchise. At this point in the season, the best interests of this franchise's long term success is to move McCown to the bench. If Bowles does not care about the franchise's long term success at the expense of meaningless short term gain, then he needs to be told firmly that he should or suffer the consequences.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

If the Jets finish 6-10 and don't get a veteran quarterback, they will be in position to draft a quarterback without moving up the way I see things especially if Jimmy Garoppolo looks good with the 49ers.

I think you are missing out on the fact that other teams have the ability to trade up in front of the Jets to get a QB. If Garoppolo plays well, the 49ers will surely open up shop on draft day looking to recoup that second round pick they traded for him and will look for a Wentz, Goff, Trubisky type windfall.

And sure the Jets could trade up, but then they are wasting resources to do so.

I certainly don't expect the Jets to purposely try and lose out - but at this point I'm sure hoping that they do. And I do not want them to play Petty or Hack because I think that will help them tank - in fact I would love to see Petty even look as good as McCown (I have no faith in Hack). At the very least we need to see if one of the two youngsters can be viable long term backup QBs, if not starting caliber QBs.

 

[Kiddnets]

In order for a franchise to function properly there must be a firm hierarchy in place. That's the problem with having a bumbling fool like Woody Johnson ultimately running the show and having the VP, GM and HC all report to him on different planes. The VP of Football Operations and the GM should be able to tell the coach what to do to a certain extent - not so much every detail of game-day minutia but certainly as to long term goals and the overall health of the franchise. At this point in the season, the best interests of this franchise's long term success is to move McCown to the bench. If Bowles does not care about the franchise's long term success at the expense of meaningless short term gain, then he needs to be told firmly that he should or suffer the consequences.

100% great post....you hit the nail on the head and I just didnt think of it this way....ever since Parcells left there has been dysfunction...you can not have a 3 headed monster like the Jets do....If the coach and GM both report to the owner(s) who are clueless trust fund loafers who is looking out for the long term success of the franchise?  Of course Bowles wants to win games....his resume is his life....of course Mac thinks Hack is a wasted pick but if he puts him out there for the world to see how bad he is it hurts his resume....someone needs to say too friggin bad...this is best for the franchise and we are doing it this way....Mara obviously has done that....he's cowardly letting the coach take the heat but no way this is not a directive or at least endorsed by him.  The Jets owner is terrible and they are in desperate need of a leader at the top....I can dream is Harbaugh/Gruden/etc are attracted to the situation maybe they finally get that person who only cares about the franchise and not the next game.  Ive never accused the Johnsons of being cheap - they pay for players but they have no clue how to run a winning franchise....buck stops with them.....hope this Giant move shows them how stupid it is to start McCown whose earned and entitled  to nothing.  

 

[Reaper]

LOL.. So Geno's gonna get a shot with a team that a HOF QB couldn't succeed with and I can't name the WR's..... AGAIN.

His Haters are gonna have a field day patting themselves on the Back Sunday!!!!

Funny story, I'll Never forget - Nov 25 2007 I was in a crowded NYC bar watching the NYG get destroyed by the Vikings - Eli, in his 4th year didn't flash too much yet, fans were on edge and this game was THE CLINCHER - NYC SPORTS RADIO was lit up.. Every single Giant fan I know "Seen Enough" and were done with Eli - Didn't find 1 fan who thought Eli would ever succeed - and I searched because as usual, I was shocked at how fans treat young QB's... Even if this was year 4.... I said "Not only would I take Eli any day, He could win the Super Bowl THIS year".......

He won the Super Bowl.... Giant fans trampled themselves jumping back on the Eli Bandwagon and now, they cry over his benching.

Fans are funny.... . 

 

[Fariq]

In order for a franchise to function properly there must be a firm hierarchy in place. That's the problem with having a bumbling fool like Woody Johnson ultimately running the show and having the VP, GM and HC all report to him on different planes. The VP of Football Operations and the GM should be able to tell the coach what to do to a certain extent - not so much every detail of game-day minutia but certainly as to long term goals and the overall health of the franchise. At this point in the season, the best interests of this franchise's long term success is to move McCown to the bench. If Bowles does not care about the franchise's long term success at the expense of meaningless short term gain, then he needs to be told firmly that he should or suffer the consequences.

I don't disagree with your above commentary.  

The problem here is we do not know what is really going on behind closed doors. I am not assuming Maccagnan and Bowles have been told their jobs are safe. Normally, three straight playoff-less seasons results in terminations. 

What I believe is that if a regime with issues unearths a good young quarterback, it will actually help them keep their job. If the Jets lose Sunday vs KC they will be all but eliminated if not technically. Maybe 4-8 would be the triggering event to get your desired move of a quarterback change.

 

[Fariq]

I think you are missing out on the fact that other teams have the ability to trade up in front of the Jets to get a QB. If Garoppolo plays well, the 49ers will surely open up shop on draft day looking to recoup that second round pick they traded for him and will look for a Wentz, Goff, Trubisky type windfall.

And sure the Jets could trade up, but then they are wasting resources to do so.

I certainly don't expect the Jets to purposely try and lose out - but at this point I'm sure hoping that they do. And I do not want them to play Petty or Hack because I think that will help them tank - in fact I would love to see Petty even look as good as McCown (I have no faith in Hack). At the very least we need to see if one of the two youngsters can be viable long term backup QBs, if not starting caliber QBs.

I actually saw you in another thread express outrage about people tanking and purposefully being non-competitive in fantasy leagues. The Jets should do it in real life, though. 

Another team can trade up to get the next HOF quarterback. The Jets do the same thing and it is bad. Many teams have traded up to get big time quarterbacks and have been rewarded. It has sometimes worked out the wrong way, of course.  

I am still waiting on word as to who is this no doubt future HOFer, once-in-a generation quarterback that the pro-tank crowd believes is in the 2018 draft. (Not just in this thread, but elsewhere on the internet; I've run into other fan bases doing the tank talk).  

 

[Fariq]

100% great post....you hit the nail on the head and I just didnt think of it this way....ever since Parcells left there has been dysfunction...you can not have a 3 headed monster like the Jets do....If the coach and GM both report to the owner(s) who are clueless trust fund loafers who is looking out for the long term success of the franchise?  Of course Bowles wants to win games....his resume is his life....of course Mac thinks Hack is a wasted pick but if he puts him out there for the world to see how bad he is it hurts his resume....someone needs to say too friggin bad...this is best for the franchise and we are doing it this way....Mara obviously has done that....he's cowardly letting the coach take the heat but no way this is not a directive or at least endorsed by him.  The Jets owner is terrible and they are in desperate need of a leader at the top....I can dream is Harbaugh/Gruden/etc are attracted to the situation maybe they finally get that person who only cares about the franchise and not the next game.  Ive never accused the Johnsons of being cheap - they pay for players but they have no clue how to run a winning franchise....buck stops with them.....hope this Giant move shows them how stupid it is to start McCown whose earned and entitled  to nothing.  

I am truly stunned that the above post was actually written. 

 

[Fariq]

LOL.. So Geno's gonna get a shot with a team that a HOF QB couldn't succeed with and I can't name the WR's..... AGAIN.

His Haters are gonna have a field day patting themselves on the Back Sunday!!!!

Yeah, unfortunately for Smith there is a good chance things will work out that way. I will say, however, that watching the Giants one can see why Smith might be a better fit currently for the Giants. With the way their line is battered, Smith could have more success than Manning. He is younger and more spry and the offense could open up more. Manning's had problems connecting on deep throws the past few years. It is understandable due to his age. 

Maybe this will come as a surprise to those who don't actually watch the Giants, but Manning has been a subpar starting quarterback this season and he was this even before the mass wide receiver injuries. Smith was a failure with the Jets in part due to his youth and lack of football smarts at times, but he was also a failure due to terrible coaching and less than adequate help.  

Just like the Jets stuff, I don't see this for one second as being a tank move by the Giants.  

 

[AngryPatriot]

I'm struggaling

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I actually saw you in another thread express outrage about people tanking and purposefully being non-competitive in fantasy leagues. The Jets should do it in real life, though. 

I know you like to argue against things that weren’t said, BUT I literally said that I don’t expect the Jets to try and lose on purpose. 

What I did say is that I hope they do lose out because a 6-10 season gains them nothing over a 4-12 season except a worse draft pick.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I am still waiting on word as to who is this no doubt future HOFer, once-in-a generation quarterback that the pro-tank crowd believes is in the 2018 draft. (Not just in this thread, but elsewhere on the internet; I've run into other fan bases doing the tank talk).  

It’s hardly an exact science - but for me I would like them to be in position to get the guy they think is the best in the bunch. I think that’s Rosen but I will add that I am far from an expert when it comes to evaluating College QBs.

At this point there’s really nothing that can be done about where exactly they will end up - if they need to trade up to get that guy sobeit, but obviously it would be ideal if they did not need to use other assets that could be used to add o-line help or corner help to get that guy - which is why I hope they don’t win another game. So that we are clear and you don’t misinterpret or be disingenuous in characterizing my stance, I am not advocating for the players or staff or front office to lose on purpose. I would like to see Petty and Hack, just because who knows maybe there’s already a competant young QB in-house.

 

[Fariq]

It’s hardly an exact science - but for me I would like them to be in position to get the guy they think is the best in the bunch. I think that’s Rosen but I will add that I am far from an expert when it comes to evaluating College QBs.

At this point there’s really nothing that can be done about where exactly they will end up - if they need to trade up to get that guy sobeit, but obviously it would be ideal if they did not need to use other assets that could be used to add o-line help or corner help to get that guy - which is why I hope they don’t win another game. So that we are clear and you don’t misinterpret or be disingenuous in characterizing my stance, I am not advocating for the players or staff or front office to lose on purpose. I would like to see Petty and Hack, just because who knows maybe there’s already a competant young QB in-house.

That is fair. 

Last year, in the offseason, and in prior years this crew (I'm including myself) got along fairly well. It's just that the tank talk threw me for a loop and some stuff got heated particularly during the period of this season when the Jets were winning some games. The commentary has gotten better of late. 

 

[NYRAGE]

Has the commentary really gotten better of late or is it just that you disagreed with people wanting to tank?  It's not like people have stepped up their commentary game.

The comment about the Jets hierarchy was spot on, but this has been the dysfunctional power structure for a long time, hence why Belichick left the Jets for the Patriots.  It's also why we have had trouble acquiring top coaching and GM talent in recent years.This shouldn't be new to any of us.

We all ultimately want the team to win. The pro-tank crowd knows that we can't be a legit team until we get a real starting qb. McCown has been decent at times, but he is has been truly awful in clutch moments, too.  Most importantly, he is 38 and you can't develop a young team with an old QB.

You've got to think that management doesn't think that either Petty or Hack are legit starting QBs. Are either of them even legit back-ups? We don't even know that unless they get some playing time. It doesn't make sense to keep playing McCown this year. Maybe they want to bring him back next year as the second-stringer to whomever we sign in FA or draft. If McCags is still the gm, then I would guess that Hack would get the benefit of the doubt over Petty at the 3rd QB position.

One thing is for sure, the QB position is a complete mystery and apparently (based on what we have seen or actually what we haven't seen) devoid of young talent.

If we have to trade up for a QB and spend a couple of first round picks next Draft, then it's worth it if the player turns out to be a long-time starter. The question is, do we trust McCags to trade all of that and make that pick after seeing how badly he seemingly missed on Hack? 

Personally, I believe we should have played Petty or Hack from the start to see what's there. At the end of the day, we had no real chance of winning even with McCown. It cost us several draft spots and draft capital that we will most likely have to trade to move up to take a QB. QBs may not slip down to us as even teams with no QB need ahead of us will look to trade down. Yes, there is no magic pill to find that right QB. Even professional evaluators (spelling?) are wrong. 

People can disagree with my opinion and that's fine. It's a Jets thread on a fantasy football message board. We're not arguing in a court of law.  It should be civil and no condescension should ever be necessary when people have differing opinions.

 

[Fariq]

Has the commentary really gotten better of late or is it just that you disagreed with people wanting to tank?  It's not like people have stepped up their commentary game.

The comment about the Jets hierarchy was spot on, but this has been the dysfunctional power structure for a long time, hence why Belichick left the Jets for the Patriots.  It's also why we have had trouble acquiring top coaching and GM talent in recent years.This shouldn't be new to any of us.

We all ultimately want the team to win. The pro-tank crowd knows that we can't be a legit team until we get a real starting qb. McCown has been decent at times, but he is has been truly awful in clutch moments, too.  Most importantly, he is 38 and you can't develop a young team with an old QB.

You've got to think that management doesn't think that either Petty or Hack are legit starting QBs. Are either of them even legit back-ups? We don't even know that unless they get some playing time. It doesn't make sense to keep playing McCown this year. Maybe they want to bring him back next year as the second-stringer to whomever we sign in FA or draft. If McCags is still the gm, then I would guess that Hack would get the benefit of the doubt over Petty at the 3rd QB position.

One thing is for sure, the QB position is a complete mystery and apparently (based on what we have seen or actually what we haven't seen) devoid of young talent.

If we have to trade up for a QB and spend a couple of first round picks next Draft, then it's worth it if the player turns out to be a long-time starter. The question is, do we trust McCags to trade all of that and make that pick after seeing how badly he seemingly missed on Hack? 

Personally, I believe we should have played Petty or Hack from the start to see what's there. At the end of the day, we had no real chance of winning even with McCown. It cost us several draft spots and draft capital that we will most likely have to trade to move up to take a QB. QBs may not slip down to us as even teams with no QB need ahead of us will look to trade down. Yes, there is no magic pill to find that right QB. Even professional evaluators (spelling?) are wrong. 

People can disagree with my opinion and that's fine. It's a Jets thread on a fantasy football message board. We're not arguing in a court of law.  It should be civil and no condescension should ever be necessary when people have differing opinions.

I don't think anybody here suggested the Jets are a well-run organization.

I disagreed with people wanting to tank. I find tanking to be offensive in general and insulting to the coaches and players. People (here and elsewhere) actually think NFL teams tank games/seasons. The believe that teams go through mini-camp, training camp, preseason games, meetings, 18-hour days (for coaches), etc. and then they lay down and say, "Here, you take it. We don't want this win." No, they do not actually do that. No team does until maybe very, very late in the regular season where you may start backups at some positions but even then it is almost never to actually purposefully lose. Unless the problem is people define "tanking" differently than me. To me, there is a major difference between tanking and rebuilding. The Jets, in my opinion, are rebuilding due to the colossal mess left behind by Tannenbaum, Idzik and Ryan. This team was likely to finish between 3-13 and 6-10. Anything outside of those records would be a big shock.  

The commentary may have gotten better because the Jets began to lose regularly. I was actually outraged by some of the posts I saw after the Browns and Jaguars wins. I later actually decided to avoid this thread for multiple weeks. I attended the Jets-Buccaneers game. Until last night I don't think I had looked at this thread since before the Bucs game. 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I disagreed with people wanting to tank. I find tanking to be offensive in general and insulting to the coaches and players. People (here and elsewhere) actually think NFL teams tank games/seasons.

I do not believe the "pro tanking" crowd actually thought that the Jets would (or wanted them to) lose games on purpose. I think it's just that we looked at a roster that appeared to be largely void of talent and wanted a top pick to get that elusive franchise QB - so rather than have a 6-10 season we would have preferred a 1-15 season.

You are right no NFL team would or ever has tried to lose games on purpose - even the Colts during the "Suck for Luck" campaign won two of their last three games and almost dropped down to pick 2.

And to the Jets credit a lot of the preseason salary dumps/tanking moves turned out to be great football decisions as those players have either shown poorly this season (Marshall, Decker, Harris) or haven't even signed anywhere (Mangold, Revis until recently). Those moves made sense in that if you are going to lose you may as well lose with youth.

Every game I've watched (all of them) I couldn't help but root for them to win - however when they did lose I was relieved and when they did win it was bittersweet in that I knew deep down inside it wasn't the best thing for the long term goals. At this point 4-12 is WAY BETTER than 6-10 or 7-9 no matter how you look at it (especially if those records come with McCown under center). If Petty gets the starts and they start winning because he's looking good I would honestly be ok with that. I would love for him (or Hack) to be the future of the franchise - but of course it's tough to believe that is a realistic possibility at this point. However we need to see one way or the other if it is.

 

[Reaper]

I disagreed with people wanting to tank. I find tanking to be offensive in general and insulting to the coaches and players.

What did you disagree with exactly? 

Because "ALL" tank means in the NFL is... Play Young Players over Old Vets unless you have a Championship Roster.

THAT is why i would have played Geno in 15/16 and That is why I play Hack/Petty Every Game of 17'

Either you develop and support these QB's OR you get a better pick - Having a 40 year old QB win 8-9 games or even 5-6 this year is a waste of time. 

Playing young players shouldn't be insulting to anyone... Heck, these are players the GM drafted.

Insulting to me is 35 years of not Drafting and grooming a Top Pro Bowl QB.

 

[Kiddnets]

I also view tanking as not "purposefully" losing but playing younger players that would likely lead to losing over more established vets.....If McCown and Forte play great and win a few games down the stretch what does that accomplish?  If they play Hack and McGuire over them odds are the Jets lose and will get a better draft pick....but in the event they play well and show potential leading to wins I dont think anyone here will complain because its youth with a future here vs winning with players that will not be here.  

Maybe the problem is the way the draft is set up....if the NFL went to a draft lottery ala the NBA I wouldn't care as much....but the way it is now you pretty much must have a franchise QB in the NFL to be competitive year after year....without a top draft pick the odds of finding one are very slim....it's been arguably 40+ yrs since the Jets had a true franchise QB and the results reflect that....so I dont think you can blame fans for wanting to increase the odds of finding that elusive franchise QB at all costs.  

 

[Fariq]

What did you disagree with exactly? 

Because "ALL" tank means in the NFL is... Play Young Players over Old Vets unless you have a Championship Roster.

THAT is why i would have played Geno in 15/16 and That is why I play Hack/Petty Every Game of 17'

Either you develop and support these QB's OR you get a better pick - Having a 40 year old QB win 8-9 games or even 5-6 this year is a waste of time. 

Playing young players shouldn't be insulting to anyone... Heck, these are players the GM drafted.

Insulting to me is 35 years of not Drafting and grooming a Top Pro Bowl QB.

Find a different term then. Tanking means doing things to purposefully lose. Playing younger players does not necessarily mean you are hoping to lose to gain a better draft position.

People in this thread were advocating the Jets to throw games for the purpose of getting a better draft pick.  

Playing younger players over older players is called either "playing the better player" or "rebuilding." The only time you use a younger player over an established player if the established player is clearly better is if the team is bad and the older player is gonna be on his way out. This type of thing is not going to be done in Week 1. It is late season event.     

 

[Fariq]

And to the Jets credit a lot of the preseason salary dumps/tanking moves turned out to be great football decisions as those players have either shown poorly this season (Marshall, Decker, Harris) or haven't even signed anywhere (Mangold, Revis until recently). Those moves made sense in that if you are going to lose you may as well lose with youth.

See, I didn't consider those moves to be tank moves. (I did sarcastically refer to them that way in one or more of my rougher posts). Those were typical moves made by rebuilding teams. Those five noted above weren't even all that good anymore. Heck, Revis, Harris, and Marshall were actually detriments to the team. "Tanking" would have been to keep those players and start them. I believe those guys would have helped make the 2017 Jets stink more than they currently do. 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

People in this thread were advocating the Jets to throw games for the purpose of getting a better draft pick.

No they weren’t so please stop saying this. People were “upset” they were pulling out meaningless wins while playing guys like McCown, Forte and Kerley. But once they did string together a few, people said we may as well just enjoy the wins and see what happens.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

See, I didn't consider those moves to be tank moves. (I did sarcastically refer to them that way in one or more of my rougher posts). Those were typical moves made by rebuilding teams. Those five noted above weren't even all that good anymore. Heck, Revis, Harris, and Marshall were actually detriments to the team. "Tanking" would have been to keep those players and start them. I believe those guys would have helped make the 2017 Jets stink more than they currently do. 

 I used the term to make a point and because some people saw it that way but they were salary dumps and Woody even admitted that as far as Decker and Harris were concerned and yes to Mac it was a rebuild. 

 

[Kiddnets]

Agree with Doc...tanking is a term of art here....no one thinks the Jets could or would purposefully lose....but would I as a fan root for them to lose if its better for the next 10 yrs - definitely! And as I've said in here many times - if they won 6-8 games with Hack/Petty I'd be ok with it because it gives hope for the future...having a 38 yr old QB win meaningless games does not help at all IMO.  

The thing that bugs me on the Jets they go half in....they made the right decision in dumping high priced older players like Revis, Harris, MArshall and Decker...they took a beating in the press but it was the right move....would they younger WRs/LB/CBs developed if they didnt make that move?  No way...not to mention not one of those players were good this year.  

My problem is they shed a bunch of old vets - say they are going young then sign McCown and play Forte when they have young players that need to be evaluated like HAck/Petty and McGuire...should have played them from the start and I still believe that.....you can say they suck in practice but its not the same as a game.  Many QBs have said nothing is better than real game experience to develop.....I dont care how bad Hack looks in practice - the season is over and he is a high 2d rd pick...throw him out there.  

Once the realistic window for playoffs closed (which was this last week) they should have benched McCown/Forte and instilled the kids as starters.  I would call that "tanking" but I just mean going with the kids and hope they either get a better draft pick or develop.  Holding out until they get to 9 losses is just ridiculous and a waste.  

Lots of fans have different opinions on it but as a 40 yr fan I'm sick of mediocrity and this is the best way I view to win long term....I am sick of the Pats winning the division every year....their window is closing soon....Jets need to be ready to jump in the fray when Brady is done in 2-3 yrs and playing a 38 yr old QB and 31 yr old RB is not it.  

That being said we all want the team to succeed so I have no issue with an alternative view that playing the older players develop the players around them....watching Anderson develop this year gives credence to that...but for me its all about seeing the kids now and either developing a QB and/or getting a better draft pick to get one....you can't keep using old journeymen year after year.  

 

[FGITLOTR]

Agree with Doc...tanking is a term of art here....no one thinks the Jets could or would purposefully lose....but would I as a fan root for them to lose if its better for the next 10 yrs - definitely! And as I've said in here many times - if they won 6-8 games with Hack/Petty I'd be ok with it because it gives hope for the future...having a 38 yr old QB win meaningless games does not help at all IMO.  

The thing that bugs me on the Jets they go half in....they made the right decision in dumping high priced older players like Revis, Harris, MArshall and Decker...they took a beating in the press but it was the right move....would they younger WRs/LB/CBs developed if they didnt make that move?  No way...not to mention not one of those players were good this year.  

My problem is they shed a bunch of old vets - say they are going young then sign McCown and play Forte when they have young players that need to be evaluated like HAck/Petty and McGuire...should have played them from the start and I still believe that.....you can say they suck in practice but its not the same as a game.  Many QBs have said nothing is better than real game experience to develop.....I dont care how bad Hack looks in practice - the season is over and he is a high 2d rd pick...throw him out there.  

Once the realistic window for playoffs closed (which was this last week) they should have benched McCown/Forte and instilled the kids as starters.  I would call that "tanking" but I just mean going with the kids and hope they either get a better draft pick or develop.  Holding out until they get to 9 losses is just ridiculous and a waste.  

Lots of fans have different opinions on it but as a 40 yr fan I'm sick of mediocrity and this is the best way I view to win long term....I am sick of the Pats winning the division every year....their window is closing soon....Jets need to be ready to jump in the fray when Brady is done in 2-3 yrs and playing a 38 yr old QB and 31 yr old RB is not it.  

That being said we all want the team to succeed so I have no issue with an alternative view that playing the older players develop the players around them....watching Anderson develop this year gives credence to that...but for me its all about seeing the kids now and either developing a QB and/or getting a better draft pick to get one....you can't keep using old journeymen year after year.  

Yeah, but they need McCown so he can pad Anderson's fantasy stats. 

 

[Reaper]

Agree with Doc...tanking is a term of art here....no one thinks the Jets could or would purposefully lose....but would I as a fan root for them to lose if its better for the next 10 yrs - definitely! And as I've said in here many times - if they won 6-8 games with Hack/Petty I'd be ok with it because it gives hope for the future...having a 38 yr old QB win meaningless games does not help at all IMO.  

I don't even Root..... It's just a sad state and kinda weird even being a Jets fan for me.... I sit there and watch football. I Bleed Green. I get kinda excited to see great plays - I kinda go "Meh" when they allow plays like Alex Smith Breaking loose for 70 yards....

There is NO emotion - It's not something I can Fake - But, there's no Skin in the Game right now. I'm programmed over many years to Go Haywire with Heart Rate Spikes and Even known to be destructive and maybe a little emotional Head case based on Jets Wins / Losses... But, To me that either Goes with A) Playoffs on the line or B) A Unicorn - the possibility of a Young QB having even a 10 % Chance of Someday being THE MAN....(Shows why I always wanted Geno, Hack or Petty or some other under 26 yo starting at ALL times!!!!! #(*!#$##@%^#%@#)

Without Playoffs or a Potential QB - I just sit there  - The past 2 years with a weird feeling of Nothingness....2015 had some exciting moments for sure and yeah I naturally enjoyed some of it but, it was emotionally capped with Reality and still and Always was a Blip, a team that was NOT winning a Championship and just Wasting Our Time. 

Sure I'm happy Robby developed this year - I think that's a bit Overrated tho - He and ASJ earned what we see and worked their asses off... I think they would have flashed a bit regardless and the difference isn't worth Not Searching for a worthy young QB to start ASAP - While ALSO benefiting from a top Draft pick IF that young QB Flopped

Call it what you want but, to me. It's just the Proper, Smart way to build a Winning Franchise and the Jets have never ever even done "TANKING" right.

It Will Be interesting now to see what QB Macc comes up with - whether they Trade up or go for Cousins...Pretty sure McCown is back.

Either way, You lose the advantage you get when you can identify and Develop your own young QB and benefit form the low cost of Cap money and the draft pick Haul trading up will cost....

But, YAY - We beat KC....... Fun Game... Good Times

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I don't even Root..... It's just a sad state and kinda weird even being a Jets fan for me.... I sit there and watch football. I Bleed Green. I get kinda excited to see great plays - I kinda go "Meh" when they allow plays like Alex Smith Breaking loose for 70 yards....

There is NO emotion -

Pretty much sums up how I watch the games now as well.

I'm starting to prepare myself for another season of Josh McCown in 2018 - we all know it's coming. Maybe we will have Mason Rudolph or Josh Allen behind him at least. That would be the only way it would be palatable to me.

 

[Reaper]

Pretty much sums up how I watch the games now as well.

I'm starting to prepare myself for another season of Josh McCown in 2018 - we all know it's coming. Maybe we will have Mason Rudolph or Josh Allen behind him at least. That would be the only way it would be palatable to me.

I sat there yesterday and Wondered If I'll Ever get it back....... Being the Crazy Emotionally invested Psycho Fan.....

The feeling of Everything on the line. The LOVE for Football.

Have the New York Jets finally Killed it for me?  Again, It's not something you fake... So, I'm pretty sure it will come back but, it's just sad to sit there and wonder, While a Football game is actually on TV... Wonder IF/WHEN it will Matter again so much...

It's been 40 years of watching most Every Jets game....... And here we are. Just Daydreaming, falling asleep with Jets games on. Live.

Watching The Giants get one of these top QB's is just gonna be the icing - I see Jet fans rubbing it in to Giant fans yesterday about the week's Circus, Geno Playing over Eli etc - Bottom line, They are about to get the excitement of another potentially great Franchise QB.

So, yeah, Please don't do anything that might or could be called "Tanking" or playing a young QB over your Older starter or even youth anywahere like RB - Please, that might just change the Jets 40+ year "Luck"... 

You Play to Win The Game..... YAY!

 

[zamboni]

I'm starting to prepare myself for another season of Josh McCown in 2018 - we all know it's coming. Maybe we will have Mason Rudolph or Josh Allen behind him at least. That would be the only way it would be palatable to me.

Yeah, they need to have a better backup plan this time around if McCown reverts back to the guy he was before this season - much like Fitz did when he flopped coming off a career year .

 

[TLEF316]

Yeah I've been totally uninvested all season long. Spend most of the day watching the red zone and rooting for my fantasy players.

And yes, I think we're looking at another season of mccown. Whatever.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I think the saddest thing about this season is the realization that two journeyman bums have had two of the top QB seasons in the history of the franchise.

It's really easy to like McCown, be happy for him, get swept up in what he's doing - but the fact that he's stayed healthy and looked this good is shocking and there's no way it carries over to his age 38 season - please don't fall for this "Cinderella Story" again Big Mac.

I'm ok with signing him to a backup level extension so that he can start the season and mentor a young QB but you must find a QB in the draft, even if that means trading up.

 

[Kiddnets]

So I was there yesterday with my 10 yr old....cheering the team on but not losing my mind as in years past when they gave up huge play after huge play....it was a god win but the Chiefs are clearly in a downward spiral....still its a good win against a good franchise. The math says they are still alive so I expect to see MCCown in there until maybe the last week or 2.....he's had a great year but can't help but sit there thinking deja vu for Fitz's career yr...only can pray that Mac learned from that fisacso and doesnt break the bank to bring him back.  

Some thoughts - 

Lee/Wilk - good to see Bowles drop the hammer on them....Lee has been having a good yr so it sends a msg to the team that no one is above the law....as for Wilk hopefully this nails his ticket out of town...he does this every yr and its time for him to go.  what a shame

McCown - great game obviously - the guy is a leader and could finish close to 4,000 yds and 30 TDs...amazing.....if he was 28 I'd be talking about long term contract....but 39 before the next season and there has to be a long term plan in place.  

Anderson - the guy keeps improving; Kearse - making that seatle deal look like a steal - all of a sudden WR stable is young with a lot of upside....even had the mid rd WRs out there a bit...would like to see them worked in more down the stretch.  

Forte - had a good game but its at McGuire's expense and I still dont like it....they need to find a way to get MAguire more carries...had a TD called back and a nice 2 pter at the end....feeling very good next yr at RB/WR

OL - actually looked pretty good...still think a youth/stud infusion is needed.

Def - not its best day - way too many big plays and letting a QB like Smith scamper for 7- yds is crazy!  

Coaching - As you all know im not a Bowles fan but gotta be impressed that he has this team playing hard even through disciplinary BS....definitely a feather in his cap this week.  

Morton - really liked he gameplan until the end....he' s clearly the best OC they've had in a long time...which means no doubt some team will pilfer him to be a HC and they'll bring back some retread!  

Draft - I read on reddit so not convinced its accurate that they dropped to 9th spot with this win.....I think they go 2-3 down the stretch to wind up at 7-9.....probably a pick in the early to mid teens which was my nightmare when the season started....however the development of the kids and positive vibe after being a pre season laughingstock makes it a bit more palatable.  It's clearly going to take a haul to move into franchise QB territory.....Mac can't go in with same QB situation - I think this stretch and the huge amount under the cap pushes him to go after a FA QB more or maybe he was scouting Smith yesterday as well....

anyway I totally agree that this has been a strange season and the purgatory trek continues......I'm now resigned that it is what it is and hope the QB situation resolves itself or its going to be more of the same next year.  Not going to lie though...watching the Giants at the draft is going to be painful.....hopefully they'll have Cousins in tow or some kind of plan for the future.....

 

[rockaction]

A good win for a team that's a lot better than we all thought it would be. It's kind of a bummer, but Fariq will come in here and lay the hammer on me if I state the obvious. What's sad is that we're a corner away from being playoff-bound. We can't cover anybody, from Stills to Hill. 

Oh well. I was rooting for the win yesterday, because we're just a lot better than people were giving us credit for and draft positioning is not going to help us at this point.  Our drafts the past few years were to blame; see: Smith, Devin, Hackenberg, Christian.  

 

[zamboni]

 Our drafts the past few years were to blame; see: Smith, Devin, Hackenberg, Christian.  

No question. The second round always struck me as the team's death knell and that they should never pick in the second again. But over the past several years, it's been pretty bad outside of a few late round hits. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/draft.htm

 

[rockaction]

No question. The second round always struck me as the team's death knell and that they should never pick in the second again. But over the past several years, it's been pretty bad outside of a few late round hits. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/draft.htm

Oof. Did you need to do that to me this early West Coast time? That's a murderer's row of incompetence, especially the Darron Lee pick. Then again, I wanted Doctson, and he's been a huge bust.  

 

[Kiddnets]

No question. The second round always struck me as the team's death knell and that they should never pick in the second again. But over the past several years, it's been pretty bad outside of a few late round hits. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/draft.htm

Looking at that Idzick draft with 12 picks is painful.....you would think just dumb luck would have landed a stud player with that many picks....

as for 2d rd crater - fun fact - in last 30 yrs Jets have drafted 5 players in the 2d rd that I would characterize as solid starters...not all pros...just solid starters.....

Maye, D HArris, Lamont Jordan, Randy Thomas and Dennis Byrd....thats a 16% rate of solid starter in the 2d rd in 30 yrs....with a gap of 10 yrs between hits of D Harris and Maye - who I'm giving them a hit on even though he's a rookie....that is an unfathomable record of whiffs and explains a lot of why this team has not been in a Super Bowl for so long.  

Also cringeworthy is Calvin Pryor cut again and out of football - 18th pick in the draft a mere 3 yrs ago.....while HaHA Dixon was stolen 3 picks later....horrific

 

[Fariq]

Draft - I read on reddit so not convinced its accurate that they dropped to 9th spot with this win.....I think they go 2-3 down the stretch to wind up at 7-9.....probably a pick in the early to mid teens which was my nightmare when the season started....however the development of the kids and positive vibe after being a pre season laughingstock makes it a bit more palatable.  It's clearly going to take a haul to move into franchise QB territory.....Mac can't go in with same QB situation - I think this stretch and the huge amount under the cap pushes him to go after a FA QB more or maybe he was scouting Smith yesterday as well....

If the state of the team is THAT bad and it is THAT important that they have to draft 1st, 2nd, or 3rd, then the bullet will have to be bitten. If it means parting with the first round pick in 2018 and 2019 and the two 2nd round picks in 2018 (that might be enough; not sure, somebody can check the Jimmy Johnson draft value chart), then so be it. The problem is there is no consensus on which college quarterbacks are clearly going to be NFL stars.

I do not think Hackenberg or Petty are future NFL starters. I didn't get too concerned about 2016, but Hackenberg looked rotten in the 2017 preseason. I don't like to go too nuts in either direction based on preseason action, but, again, he looked really bad. We have seen Petty play in real games and he's shown himself to be backup material. He has a slow delivery and accuracy issues. That said, I still expected to see Petty if for no other reason then to officially rule him out as a future starter. The problem is that McCown played too well and the team won more games than was expected. I also think the problem is Bowles and Morton know Petty and Hackenberg are not answers. That said, the Jets might put McCown in street clothes at 6-9 and let each backup split halves in the season finale. It is acceptable to give playing time to backup players in the final game. (This is not a tank move.) 

I will not be joining you in doing the "Woe is me. I'm a Jets fan. The Giants will draft the quarterback the Jets were supposed to draft." thing.

 

[Kiddnets]

If the state of the team is THAT bad and it is THAT important that they have to draft 1st, 2nd, or 3rd, then the bullet will have to be bitten. If it means parting with the first round pick in 2018 and 2019 and the two 2nd round picks in 2018 (that might be enough; not sure, somebody can check the Jimmy Johnson draft value chart), then so be it. The problem is there is no consensus on which college quarterbacks are clearly going to be NFL stars.

I do not think Hackenberg or Petty are future NFL starters. I didn't get too concerned about 2016, but Hackenberg looked rotten in the 2017 preseason. I don't like to go too nuts in either direction based on preseason action, but, again, he looked really bad. We have seen Petty play in real games and he's shown himself to be backup material. He has a slow delivery and accuracy issues. That said, I still expected to see Petty if for no other reason then to officially rule him out as a future starter. The problem is that McCown played too well and the team won more games than was expected. I also think the problem is Bowles and Morton know Petty and Hackenberg are not answers. That said, the Jets might put McCown in street clothes at 6-9 and let each backup split halves in the season finale. It is acceptable to give playing time to backup players in the final game. (This is not a tank move.) 

I will not be joining you in doing the "Woe is me. I'm a Jets fan. The Giants will draft the quarterback the Jets were supposed to draft." thing.

I can live with the ransom its going to take to move up for a franchise QB...my concern the teams at the top need QBs and may not deal to high bidder (except SF) - and if Jets fall into teens it may be too far to move up even with extra picks....thats why I can see them going the Cousins/Smith route. 

You are probably correct as to Petty/Hack but we disagree that giving them a half at the end of the final game is enough....when they get to 8 losses there really is no reason IMO to not let them play a game or 2 each down the stretch.  Odds are 99% you are correct and they are backup/wire fodder but in the 1% chance they should get more than a half of the final game to show it in a lost season record wise.  

Fair enough on the draft if you could care less...I fully admit I'll be envious of the Giants if they get a top 2 pick....

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Fair enough on the draft if you could care less...I fully admit I'll be envious of the Giants if they get a top 2 pick....

It's also kind of ironic that we were just discussing in this thread how attractive the Jets' situation could be to a top level GM and/or HC candidate and now the Giants have to one up us on that making their positions available with a more talented roster and a top 2 pick (and let's face it candidates would have to favor the more stable and successful Giants' organization over Woodytown).

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Also cringeworthy is Calvin Pryor cut again and out of football - 18th pick in the draft a mere 3 yrs ago.....while HaHA Dixon was stolen 3 picks later....horrific

To give Mac some credit, his trades have worked out really well. Pryor for Demario Davis has been a steal and the Sheldon Richardson for Kearse and a second round pick has worked out nicely thus far.

 

[NYRAGE]

We can't blame McCags for Pryor. That goes back to the two buffoons we had in charge at the time. I wanted Cooks. Even Ha-Ha Dix would have been a better fit, but Ryan wanted a thumper for his false bravado image.

In 2015, McCags drafted Petty in the 4th round. I think he will be a decent back-up QB in this league. If Clemens and Stanton can have long careers, why can't Petty if given a chance.

In 2016, I was still desperate for a QB. I didn't like the Lee pick. I wanted them to gamble on Lynch. Looks like Lynch is far from being a franchise or even starting QB.

In last year's draft, I wanted Watson, but when Adams was available, I think that was a good pick due the uncertainty of the QBs including Watson. It sucked to see Watson look so great, but such is life.

Next year, I want them to go QB again.  It sucks that we're drafting 10th now. I don't envy the Giants though. They may not even get a QB at their spot.

I don't mind us trading a couple of first round picks + to get a franchise QB. However, I can't say I have a lot of confidence in McCagnan finding the right guy after the team is so down on Petty and Hack. Not to take away some really good things that McCagnan has done so far (e.g. like Dr. Octopus mentions, McCags has been an excellent trader of professional players. He also got ASJ for free and got UDFAs like Anderson.)

 

[Fariq]

. . . Giants have . . . a more talented roster

I'm not sure they have a more talented roster. The Giants have the most talented tight end and wide receiver of the two teams. The Giants cornerbacks are more talented. The Jets have the better RB corps. The Jets linebackers while not good are better than the Giants group. That's enough. I don't want to do this anymore. Why the heck are we so concerned about an NFC team all of a sudden?

 

[Kiddnets]

Report that Wilkerson has been late to multiple meetings as well as a no show on some.....has there ever been a player who mailed it in quicker after getting paid?  He can't get cut quick enough....hopefully Mac learned a valuable lesson here....

 

[Fariq]

For those who think NFL teams might ever actually purposefully lose, maybe you have a bit of ammo with the Jets-Broncos game based on what happened at the end of the first half. A non-Jets fan friend who watches every single NFL play every year including all preseason games (a true super fan of the league) and is indifferent to the Jets (in other words, no bias) wrote a scathing e-mail on Todd Bowles to me last January. That is what I referenced below-

The following was part of an e-mail I sent to that guy tonight. (Figured it was easier to do this than write new comments from scratch and plus I have to go to bed now.)

Ray Lucas's first words on the Jets post game show- "What time does the Jets game start today?"

The Jets played like a 14-1 team that had the 1 seed wrapped up and just wanted to get through the regular season finale. 

To the Jets, "Really? Really? Some nice things were written about you guys this week, so you got full of yourselves? Really? You were 5-7 going into this game! That is NOT a good record! There is no excuse for taking a game off."  

There had been a lot of talk lately about Bowles probably being brought back for 2018 and I understood it. After the give up punt in Week 1, there had not been any of those "willing loser" (as you described him to me in an e-mail) moments until today with 7:33 left in the 4th quarter. Unless you want to maybe look at the 2nd quarter when Bowles let the Broncos waste a half minute and kick a field goal. The Jets then got the ball back with 32 seconds and three timeouts and took a knee and went into the locker room.

 

[TLEF316]

Any 30+ FA quarterbacks on the market? We need someone who gives us the best chance to win....

 

[Dr. Octopus]

For those who think NFL teams might ever actually purposefully lose, maybe you have a bit of ammo with the Jets-Broncos game based on what happened at the end of the first half. A non-Jets fan friend who watches every single NFL play every year including all preseason games (a true super fan of the league) and is indifferent to the Jets (in other words, no bias) wrote a scathing e-mail on Todd Bowles to me last January. That is what I referenced below-

The following was part of an e-mail I sent to that guy tonight. (Figured it was easier to do this then write new comments from scratch and plus I have to go to bed now.)

Ray Lucas's first words on the Jets post game show- "What time does the Jets game start today?"

The Jets played like a 14-1 team that had the 1 seed wrapped up and just wanted to get through the regular season finale. 

To the Jets, "Really? Really? Some nice things were written about you guys this week, so you got full of yourselves? Really? You were 5-7 going into this game! That is NOT a good record! There is no excuse for taking a game off."  

There had been a lot of talk lately about Bowles probably being brought back for 2018 and I understood it. After the give up punt in Week 1, there had not been any of those "willing loser" (as you described him to me in an e-mail) moments until today with 7:33 left in the 4th quarter. Unless you want to maybe look at the 2nd quarter when Bowles let the Broncos waste a half minute and kick a field goal. The Jets then got the ball back with 32 seconds and three timeouts and took a knee and went into the locker room.

Bowles isn't tanking - he's just crazy conservative and lacks football passion and sense. He's always been that way.

He needs to go at season's end - especially if the plan is to draft a rookie QB.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Well at least we should see more of Petty and Hack to finish the season. If they play McCown now, especially since they have a reason not to (injury), they are truly pathetic football minds.

Petty looked pretty bad, but so did McCown and he should get at least one full game evaluation - then maybe Hack gets two games to finish off the season.