San Francisco 49ers 2013 thread (SEE NEW 2014 THREAD) (1 Viewer)

[drummer]

I'm not sure what you are oh boying about could you expand. i watched the game with 7 ignorant 49er fans on the weekend and the talk was mostly about how the 49ers often very close to Kaep costing them the game...

Fixed for accuracy.

Thanks for being a jerk! Your mama must be proud

Not trying to be a jerk but stating that Kap has almost cost the 49ers from winning games often is a pretty ignorant viewpoint.

Why is that. The 49ers have a top defense, a top wr tandem, a top rb and an oline built on high draft picks. Watching that Carolina game how could you not think, especially in the first half, if he could just make some of these throws the 49ers would have absolutely killed them. Even the boldin down to the goalline throw...it couldn't have been more behind them. That should have been an easy touchdown and they scored anyway but if that ends up in a fg again...different game. So while I think he is an alright qb i think he is a really risky option and it would be smart to draft someone that is there in the background just in case.

As someone else mentioned he has gotten really lucky the last couple of weeks...the 49ers could easily be one and done and with this much talent on the team I feel like that shouldn't be happening. That won't happen in seattle...

Here is a tip: if you wanna pollute a thread with your ignorance, here is a Chernobyl one for ya:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=702906

Just tying to help ya out. Do you remember how you came in?

 

[proninja]

I think the 49ers would be smart to take a qb in the 3rd or 4th this year to start grooming him.

I fully endorse this idea. I'd love to see what San Francisco could do with a 3rd or 4th round rookie QB next year.

 

[kface]

I'm not sure what you are oh boying about could you expand. i watched the game with 7 ignorant 49er fans on the weekend and the talk was mostly about how the 49ers often very close to Kaep costing them the game...

Fixed for accuracy.

Thanks for being a jerk! Your mama must be proud

Not trying to be a jerk but stating that Kap has almost cost the 49ers from winning games often is a pretty ignorant viewpoint.

Why is that. The 49ers have a top defense, a top wr tandem, a top rb and an oline built on high draft picks. Watching that Carolina game how could you not think, especially in the first half, if he could just make some of these throws the 49ers would have absolutely killed them. Even the boldin down to the goalline throw...it couldn't have been more behind them. That should have been an easy touchdown and they scored anyway but if that ends up in a fg again...different game. So while I think he is an alright qb i think he is a really risky option and it would be smart to draft someone that is there in the background just in case.

As someone else mentioned he has gotten really lucky the last couple of weeks...the 49ers could easily be one and done and with this much talent on the team I feel like that shouldn't be happening. That won't happen in seattle...

Here is a tip: if you wanna pollute a thread with your ignorance, here is a Chernobyl one for ya:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=702906

Just tying to help ya out. Do you remember how you came in?

Wow you are just an awesome a$$hole! Good for you!

 

[ScottyDog]

I'm not sure what you are oh boying about could you expand. i watched the game with 7 ignorant 49er fans on the weekend and the talk was mostly about how the 49ers often very close to Kaep costing them the game...

Fixed for accuracy.

Thanks for being a jerk! Your mama must be proud

Not trying to be a jerk but stating that Kap has almost cost the 49ers from winning games often is a pretty ignorant viewpoint.

Why is that. The 49ers have a top defense, a top wr tandem, a top rb and an oline built on high draft picks. Watching that Carolina game how could you not think, especially in the first half, if he could just make some of these throws the 49ers would have absolutely killed them. Even the boldin down to the goalline throw...it couldn't have been more behind them. That should have been an easy touchdown and they scored anyway but if that ends up in a fg again...different game. So while I think he is an alright qb i think he is a really risky option and it would be smart to draft someone that is there in the background just in case.

As someone else mentioned he has gotten really lucky the last couple of weeks...the 49ers could easily be one and done and with this much talent on the team I feel like that shouldn't be happening. That won't happen in seattle...

Oh boy....what about that would have been pick he gift wrapped to that Packers CB who dropped it late in the 4th quarter? I think the 9'ers fans would be singing a different tune about Kaep had the DB held onto the poorly thrown pass

 

[kface]

I think the 49ers would be smart to take a qb in the 3rd or 4th this year to start grooming him.

I fully endorse this idea. I'd love to see what San Francisco could do with a 3rd or 4th round rookie QB next year.

Not next year obviously but start grooming him so if we need him he is there...

 

[drummer]

I'm not sure what you are oh boying about could you expand. i watched the game with 7 ignorant 49er fans on the weekend and the talk was mostly about how the 49ers often very close to Kaep costing them the game...

Fixed for accuracy.

Thanks for being a jerk! Your mama must be proud

Not trying to be a jerk but stating that Kap has almost cost the 49ers from winning games often is a pretty ignorant viewpoint.

Why is that. The 49ers have a top defense, a top wr tandem, a top rb and an oline built on high draft picks. Watching that Carolina game how could you not think, especially in the first half, if he could just make some of these throws the 49ers would have absolutely killed them. Even the boldin down to the goalline throw...it couldn't have been more behind them. That should have been an easy touchdown and they scored anyway but if that ends up in a fg again...different game. So while I think he is an alright qb i think he is a really risky option and it would be smart to draft someone that is there in the background just in case.

As someone else mentioned he has gotten really lucky the last couple of weeks...the 49ers could easily be one and done and with this much talent on the team I feel like that shouldn't be happening. That won't happen in seattle...

Here is a tip: if you wanna pollute a thread with your ignorance, here is a Chernobyl one for ya:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=702906

Just tying to help ya out. Do you remember how you came in?

Wow you are just an awesome #######! Good for you!

I've been called worse, which is still ten times better than what we can call you.

 

[proninja]

I think the 49ers would be smart to take a qb in the 3rd or 4th this year to start grooming him.

I fully endorse this idea. I'd love to see what San Francisco could do with a 3rd or 4th round rookie QB next year.

Not next year obviously but start grooming him so if we need him he is there...

Hey, why wait? If you dislike Kaep so much, let's just chuck Matt Flynn in there or something. I'm on your side. Get Kaepernick the heck out of there.

 

[drummer]

I think the 49ers would be smart to take a qb in the 3rd or 4th this year to start grooming him.

I fully endorse this idea. I'd love to see what San Francisco could do with a 3rd or 4th round rookie QB next year.

You need to get the idiot Hawk fans back where they belong and not help propagate their idiocy here.

 

[proninja]

I think the 49ers would be smart to take a qb in the 3rd or 4th this year to start grooming him.

I fully endorse this idea. I'd love to see what San Francisco could do with a 3rd or 4th round rookie QB next year.

You need to get the idiot Hawk fans back where they belong and not help propagate their idiocy here.

Is this guy a hawk fan too? Ugh. I've lost track of the bandwagoners.

 

[ScottyDog]

I am blocking this entire thread.

 

[kface]

I think the 49ers would be smart to take a qb in the 3rd or 4th this year to start grooming him.

I fully endorse this idea. I'd love to see what San Francisco could do with a 3rd or 4th round rookie QB next year.

Not next year obviously but start grooming him so if we need him he is there...

Hey, why wait? If you dislike Kaep so much, let's just chuck Matt Flynn in there or something. I'm on your side. Get Kaepernick the heck out of there.

Hey I am just trying ot have a reasonable discussion about a guy with a 53% completion percentage and his long term prospects on the 49ers

 

[drummer]

I think the 49ers would be smart to take a qb in the 3rd or 4th this year to start grooming him.

I fully endorse this idea. I'd love to see what San Francisco could do with a 3rd or 4th round rookie QB next year.

You need to get the idiot Hawk fans back where they belong and not help propagate their idiocy here.

Is this guy a hawk fan too? Ugh. I've lost track of the bandwagoners.

You can scratch killface off that list, as well as we are.

 

[drummer]

There would be no greater honor than being banned from listening to 11 year olds like yourself arguing amongst yourseves about who didn't pee his pants last night

Yet you watched the game with "7 other 49er fans" over milk and cookies.

 

[kface]

There would be no greater honor than being banned from listening to 11 year olds like yourself arguing amongst yourseves about who didn't pee his pants last night

Yet you watched the game with "7 other 49er fans" over milk and cookies.

Hey you can't read either! Maybe 11 is too generous of a number for you...maybe you are only 8.

 

[drummer]

There would be no greater honor than being banned from listening to 11 year olds like yourself arguing amongst yourseves about who didn't pee his pants last night

Yet you watched the game with "7 other 49er fans" over milk and cookies.

Hey you can't read either! Maybe 11 is too generous of a number for you...maybe you are only 8.

Your responses are very Webzone-ish.

 

[kface]

Now that I have blocked the two year old I wouldn't mind discussing the long term prospects of Kaep...are his issues fixable or do we draft someone just in case?

 

[drummer]

Now that I have blocked the two year old I wouldn't mind discussing the long term prospects of Kaep...are his issues fixable or do we draft someone just in case?

You've must have blocked the entire thread, since we have been discussing Kaep and the offense throughout it. This isn't the Webzone where they have multiple threads over the same topic because they have too much ADD to read them.

 

[thecatch]

Now that I have blocked the two year old I wouldn't mind discussing the long term prospects of Kaep...are his issues fixable or do we draft someone just in case?

He's in his infancy in terms of development as a QB. He's 4-1 in the playoffs. He's easily the best QB SF has had since Steve Young. These guys don't grow on trees. Surely you know all of these things.

That said, I have no problem drafting a QB in the 4th or later. The whole reason we got Harbaugh in the first place was because he had expertise in selecting and tutoring players at the position. Clearly he was not happy with all the retreads the team had this year.

 

[drummer]

Now that I have blocked the two year old I wouldn't mind discussing the long term prospects of Kaep...are his issues fixable or do we draft someone just in case?

He's in his infancy in terms of development as a QB. He's 4-1 in the playoffs. He's easily the best QB SF has had since Steve Young. These guys don't grow on trees. Surely you know all of these things.

That said, I have no problem drafting a QB in the 4th or later. The whole reason we got Harbaugh in the first place was because he had expertise in selecting and tutoring players at the position. Clearly he was not happy with all the retreads the team had this year.

They changed the offense and added a ton more plays once Kaep was behind center. Every other QB including Smith has struggled with this offense, and Kaep has taken it further in a very short period of time. The reason why they have two straight road wins is due to Kaep converting critical downs. zoneface is just smoking too much Webzonez.

Maybe he would have felt better if Baalke would had drafted Russell Wilson instead of LaMichael James or even AJ Jenkins. Get a QB in the 4th or 5th? They need more than that after that poor 2012 draft. Jenkins is gone, James hardly saw the field of play during the regular season, Robinson, Johnson, and Slowey aren't on the team anymore, and all there is left is Looney and Fleming.

 

[drummer]

I dunno how accurate this data is (and feel free to chime in on it), but I was curious to look at the offense on 3rd down over the past three seasons. I don't need to look at the seasons before those three because I already know how bad they were on 3rd down, lol. Anyway, here is a link to their rankings or however they compile the data:

2011: http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct?date=2012-02-05

On this sites "rankings", the 49ers are slotted 31st above STL at 32nd. I can agree with that since all I complained about here in 2011 was how bad they were on 3rd down, lol, and posted how they were at the bottom of the league in that stat during that time.

2012: http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct?date=2013-02-03

I've posted on how the 49ers had improved on 3rd down when they switched from Kaep and Smith, but also, Smith and the rushing attack had some huge offensive games like against BUF yet the next game just flat out suck like against NYG, where Smith tossed 3 INTs. In fairness to Smith, Kaep also laid some huge eggs in games like against STL, NE (for a half), and of course SEA. But despite the mini QB turmoil, the drastic shift of QB style between Smith and Kaep, how the play calling and execution of offensive plays was affected by all that, they actually improved according to the ranking to 22nd.

I agree that they had improved on 3rd down, although not knowing exactly how much, but I know it was significant. I'm justing wondering how much more significant. If it's nine points above 2011, then yeah, I'll take that. 31st to 22nd is a significant jump.

2013: http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct

They make the jump from 22nd to 17th.

This is Kaep's first full 16 games sched, with he being the starter at camp, Smith traded, the de-facto starter of the 49ers, who he just lost as starting QB halfway into his second season. A young QB's first full 16 game sched is huge, and any young QB who can win his first full regular season into the playoffs is pretty darn phenomenal, like Wilson, Luck, etc.

~I think Luck is better than Wilson, and I think Wilson now is better than Kaep, with Luck way above both of them.~

Yet despite only having one f-ing WR in Anquan Boldin most of the season, they have improved even more upon 3rd down.

How have they done that?

Discuss.

 

[CalBear]

I dunno how accurate this data is (and feel free to chime in on it), but I was curious to look at the offense on 3rd down over the past three seasons. I don't need to look at the seasons before those three because I already know how bad they were on 3rd down, lol. Anyway, here is a link to their rankings or however they compile the data:

2011: http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct?date=2012-02-05

On this sites "rankings", the 49ers are slotted 31st above STL at 32nd. I can agree with that since all I complained about here in 2011 was how bad they were on 3rd down, lol, and posted how they were at the bottom of the league in that stat during that time.

2012: http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct?date=2013-02-03

I've posted on how the 49ers had improved on 3rd down when they switched from Kaep and Smith, but also, Smith and the rushing attack had some huge offensive games like against BUF yet the next game just flat out suck like against NYG, where Smith tossed 3 INTs. In fairness to Smith, Kaep also laid some huge eggs in games like against STL, NE (for a half), and of course SEA. But despite the mini QB turmoil, the drastic shift of QB style between Smith and Kaep, how the play calling and execution of offensive plays was affected by all that, they actually improved according to the ranking to 22nd.

I agree that they had improved on 3rd down, although not knowing exactly how much, but I know it was significant. I'm justing wondering how much more significant. If it's nine points above 2011, then yeah, I'll take that. 31st to 22nd is a significant jump.

2013: http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct

They make the jump from 22nd to 17th.

This is Kaep's first full 16 games sched, with he being the starter at camp, Smith traded, the de-facto starter of the 49ers, who he just lost as starting QB halfway into his second season. A young QB's first full 16 game sched is huge, and any young QB who can win his first full regular season into the playoffs is pretty darn phenomenal, like Wilson, Luck, etc.

~I think Luck is better than Wilson, and I think Wilson now is better than Kaep, with Luck way above both of them.~

Why would you put Luck way above Wilson or Kaep? It's not like Luck had a much better season in 2013, and certainly both Wilson and Kaep had better seasons in 2012. Both are more than a yard per attempt ahead of Luck, and both are better runners (though Luck's not bad). And both are still alive in the playoffs, while Luck threw seven INTs in two games.

 

[drummer]

I dunno how accurate this data is (and feel free to chime in on it), but I was curious to look at the offense on 3rd down over the past three seasons. I don't need to look at the seasons before those three because I already know how bad they were on 3rd down, lol. Anyway, here is a link to their rankings or however they compile the data:

2011: http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct?date=2012-02-05

On this sites "rankings", the 49ers are slotted 31st above STL at 32nd. I can agree with that since all I complained about here in 2011 was how bad they were on 3rd down, lol, and posted how they were at the bottom of the league in that stat during that time.

2012: http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct?date=2013-02-03

I've posted on how the 49ers had improved on 3rd down when they switched from Kaep and Smith, but also, Smith and the rushing attack had some huge offensive games like against BUF yet the next game just flat out suck like against NYG, where Smith tossed 3 INTs. In fairness to Smith, Kaep also laid some huge eggs in games like against STL, NE (for a half), and of course SEA. But despite the mini QB turmoil, the drastic shift of QB style between Smith and Kaep, how the play calling and execution of offensive plays was affected by all that, they actually improved according to the ranking to 22nd.

I agree that they had improved on 3rd down, although not knowing exactly how much, but I know it was significant. I'm justing wondering how much more significant. If it's nine points above 2011, then yeah, I'll take that. 31st to 22nd is a significant jump.

2013: http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct

They make the jump from 22nd to 17th.

This is Kaep's first full 16 games sched, with he being the starter at camp, Smith traded, the de-facto starter of the 49ers, who he just lost as starting QB halfway into his second season. A young QB's first full 16 game sched is huge, and any young QB who can win his first full regular season into the playoffs is pretty darn phenomenal, like Wilson, Luck, etc.

~I think Luck is better than Wilson, and I think Wilson now is better than Kaep, with Luck way above both of them.~

Why would you put Luck way above Wilson or Kaep? It's not like Luck had a much better season in 2013, and certainly both Wilson and Kaep had better seasons in 2012. Both are more than a yard per attempt ahead of Luck, and both are better runners (though Luck's not bad). And both are still alive in the playoffs, while Luck threw seven INTs in two games.

That was a bit of a sidebar. I'm more curious about you think about the 3rd down progression.

As far as Luck, there is no argument on his impact overall as QB over Wilson and Kaep. If Luck was with Harbaugh, Roman, and Fangio from Year One in the NFL, well.....

Luck with Pete Carroll: that's insane too.

ETA: 3rd down to me is a QB down. I screwed this thing up with my thoughts about Luck. Let's talk 3rd down.

 

[Neofight]

Alex Smith, while nowhere near the athlete, was much more consistent. That may be an upgrade, but deeming it massive is a bit generous.

The fact that you already consider Kaepernick to be an upgrade (not matter how slight) over Smith, who has 7 YEARS of starting experience over him, MAKES IT a massive upgrade. Unless of course you think Kaepernick is going to regress as a passer and Smith suddenly channels his inner Aaron Rodgers.

Throw in the 2 second rounders FTW.

This makes little sense. He still needs to progress but, sure, lump in the picks.

Perhaps if I remove the names from the equation...

If QB A (26 yrs old/2 yrs experience) is already playing as good or better (as you say) than QB B (29 yrs old/9 yrs experience) who would you rather build your team around? Now consider that QB A is has much more raw physical talent, and you can also get 2 2nd round picks for QB B I'd say that's a pretty massive upgrade no?

As an aside I find it amusing when seahawk fans bag on Kaepernick especially when a lot of seahawk fans actually had him on their draft radar in 2011. I dunno if you guys feel some sort of need to downplay his accomplishments/potential to justify your cognitive dissonance. (see viral russell wilson vs. kaepernick montage) Regardless, it's good predictable fun. Cheers.

Not a Seahawk fan, nor am I bagging on Kaepernick. Other 49er fans have pointed out the decision making problems that I have pointed out as well. It's obviously a concern for some (and I'm guessing more than are willing to admit it).

 

[Neofight]

I dunno how accurate this data is (and feel free to chime in on it), but I was curious to look at the offense on 3rd down over the past three seasons. I don't need to look at the seasons before those three because I already know how bad they were on 3rd down, lol. Anyway, here is a link to their rankings or however they compile the data:

2011: http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct?date=2012-02-05

On this sites "rankings", the 49ers are slotted 31st above STL at 32nd. I can agree with that since all I complained about here in 2011 was how bad they were on 3rd down, lol, and posted how they were at the bottom of the league in that stat during that time.

2012: http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct?date=2013-02-03

I've posted on how the 49ers had improved on 3rd down when they switched from Kaep and Smith, but also, Smith and the rushing attack had some huge offensive games like against BUF yet the next game just flat out suck like against NYG, where Smith tossed 3 INTs. In fairness to Smith, Kaep also laid some huge eggs in games like against STL, NE (for a half), and of course SEA. But despite the mini QB turmoil, the drastic shift of QB style between Smith and Kaep, how the play calling and execution of offensive plays was affected by all that, they actually improved according to the ranking to 22nd.

I agree that they had improved on 3rd down, although not knowing exactly how much, but I know it was significant. I'm justing wondering how much more significant. If it's nine points above 2011, then yeah, I'll take that. 31st to 22nd is a significant jump.

2013: http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct

They make the jump from 22nd to 17th.

This is Kaep's first full 16 games sched, with he being the starter at camp, Smith traded, the de-facto starter of the 49ers, who he just lost as starting QB halfway into his second season. A young QB's first full 16 game sched is huge, and any young QB who can win his first full regular season into the playoffs is pretty darn phenomenal, like Wilson, Luck, etc.

~I think Luck is better than Wilson, and I think Wilson now is better than Kaep, with Luck way above both of them.~

Why would you put Luck way above Wilson or Kaep? It's not like Luck had a much better season in 2013, and certainly both Wilson and Kaep had better seasons in 2012. Both are more than a yard per attempt ahead of Luck, and both are better runners (though Luck's not bad). And both are still alive in the playoffs, while Luck threw seven INTs in two games.

That was a bit of a sidebar. I'm more curious about you think about the 3rd down progression.

As far as Luck, there is no argument on his impact overall as QB over Wilson and Kaep. If Luck was with Harbaugh, Roman, and Fangio from Year One in the NFL, well.....

Luck with Pete Carroll: that's insane too.

ETA: 3rd down to me is a QB down. I screwed this thing up with my thoughts about Luck. Let's talk 3rd down.

Luck with the 49ers or Seahawks would still be in a run first offense and have his lapses in judgement. His upside is huge, but he didn't come close to meeting it this year. I'd say even Kaepernick showed fewer critical lapses than Luck, though he is asked to do far less.

 

[chinawildman]

There would be no greater honor than being banned from listening to 11 year olds like yourself arguing amongst yourseves about who didn't pee his pants last night

Yet you watched the game with "7 other 49er fans" over milk and cookies.

Hey you can't read either! Maybe 11 is too generous of a number for you...maybe you are only 8.

Your responses are very Webzone-ish.

 

[chinawildman]

Hunter's "minus yardage" tendencies seem to be contagious and gore's had a case of it all season. Gore's YPC is 4.1 the lowest in his career (down from 4.7 last year). Hunter likewise down to 4.6 from 5.2 last year. I know you think FO is a bunch of ignorant bean counters, but their metrics had SF as the #1 rated run blocking line in 2012. This year they're ranked 29th. Last year they got stuffed 17% of the time (7th best in the league), this year 24% (29th in the league). Last year on 3rd or 4th and 2 or less to go, they converted 66% of the time (12th best) , this year 55% for (28th best). Yada, yada...
You can say that the numbers don't tell the whole story. Sure, QB rating doesn't either, but it gives you an general idea as to what's going on. Maybe Iupati's injuries have had an impact, maybe Goodwin is slowing down… regardless it's pretty obvious on the tube, and even more so on paper, that the O-line hasn't played as well as last year. Not sure why you're so hung up on that not being a factor.

Hunter is a below average RB period. Dr. Milk Carton brought up DVOA a year or two ago, so I emailed Danny Tuccito of FO to ask about why FO ranks them so low. It's mostly due to the play calling, formations, Harbaugh's use of the threat of the run, etc. It has nothing to do with the talent since Chilo Rachal was cut. They have gotten almost 2000 yards combined out of the rushing attack this season, most with Gore and Kaep, who rushed for 1600 combined alone. Kaep checks from shotgun, to pistol, to under center, sometimes going from pistol to under center in one pre snap read. This again of course with hardly any weapons most of the season in the passing offense.

But hey! We have DVOA! FO has before has predicted the 49ers only winning 8 games while they won over 11! Please buy our metrics!

ETA: stat check, they have over 2000 yards rushing along with the over 3000 yards passing.

Did you ask him last season or this season? I'm not saying the offensive line sucks, just that their standard of play has diminished from last season and it's one of the reasons for some of the offense's struggles. Even if all the other factors you cite have to do with skewing FO's numbers, they would've had the same effect last season as well. Comparing apples to apples here.

 

[chinawildman]

Perhaps if I remove the names from the equation...

If QB A (26 yrs old/2 yrs experience) is already playing as good or better (as you say) than QB B (29 yrs old/9 yrs experience) who would you rather build your team around? Now consider that QB A is has much more raw physical talent, and you can also get 2 2nd round picks for QB B I'd say that's a pretty massive upgrade no?

As an aside I find it amusing when seahawk fans bag on Kaepernick especially when a lot of seahawk fans actually had him on their draft radar in 2011. I dunno if you guys feel some sort of need to downplay his accomplishments/potential to justify your cognitive dissonance. (see viral russell wilson vs. kaepernick montage) Regardless, it's good predictable fun. Cheers.

Not a Seahawk fan, nor am I bagging on Kaepernick. Other 49er fans have pointed out the decision making problems that I have pointed out as well. It's obviously a concern for some (and I'm guessing more than are willing to admit it).

This discussion has little to do with whether Kaepernick is or will be an elite QB. It's an attempt to quantify the degree of upgrade over Alex Smith (who everyone outside of Jim Harbaugh thinks is an elite QB). Assuming Kaep NEVER improves as a passing QB he would still be a massive upgrade over Smith just based on the picks we received in the exchange.

 

[Neofight]

Perhaps if I remove the names from the equation...

If QB A (26 yrs old/2 yrs experience) is already playing as good or better (as you say) than QB B (29 yrs old/9 yrs experience) who would you rather build your team around? Now consider that QB A is has much more raw physical talent, and you can also get 2 2nd round picks for QB B I'd say that's a pretty massive upgrade no?

As an aside I find it amusing when seahawk fans bag on Kaepernick especially when a lot of seahawk fans actually had him on their draft radar in 2011. I dunno if you guys feel some sort of need to downplay his accomplishments/potential to justify your cognitive dissonance. (see viral russell wilson vs. kaepernick montage) Regardless, it's good predictable fun. Cheers.

Not a Seahawk fan, nor am I bagging on Kaepernick. Other 49er fans have pointed out the decision making problems that I have pointed out as well. It's obviously a concern for some (and I'm guessing more than are willing to admit it).

This discussion has little to do with whether Kaepernick is or will be an elite QB. It's an attempt to quantify the degree of upgrade over Alex Smith (who everyone outside of Jim Harbaugh thinks is an elite QB). Assuming Kaep NEVER improves as a passing QB he would still be a massive upgrade over Smith just based on the picks we received in the exchange.

Yeah, you've said this before. And it's still strange.

 

[Spin]

ETA: 3rd down to me is a QB down. I screwed this thing up with my thoughts about Luck. Let's talk 3rd down.

I don't have any stats to back it up, other then what you have said already, but it "feels" much different this year. When it's 3rd and short, I'm pretty positive that we're going to pick it up. I don't remember having that kind of confidence in the last few years. Even in the GB game, a few 3rd and 6+ and I wasn't nervous about not completing it. Boldin's addition is huge here, extremely physical with an ability to find and sit an open spot.

I also feel like Kaep is running much more in the playoffs, which bodes well for 3rd down. I'm still pretty certain they told him to not run too much during the season, for fear if he got hurt the season was over. Although he still has a tendency to lock onto his primary target. The play that comes to mind is the almost pick 6 vs Carolina. Crabtree beat his corner on the slant, but Kaep missed the inside db, and almost threw a pick 6. But when they're showing replays, you see Kaep scanning more and more, a much bigger improvement. That deep 3rd down pass to Patton on the sideline early in the first drive was a thing of beauty, what was Patton, his 4th read on that play?

 

[drummer]

Perhaps if I remove the names from the equation...

If QB A (26 yrs old/2 yrs experience) is already playing as good or better (as you say) than QB B (29 yrs old/9 yrs experience) who would you rather build your team around? Now consider that QB A is has much more raw physical talent, and you can also get 2 2nd round picks for QB B I'd say that's a pretty massive upgrade no?

As an aside I find it amusing when seahawk fans bag on Kaepernick especially when a lot of seahawk fans actually had him on their draft radar in 2011. I dunno if you guys feel some sort of need to downplay his accomplishments/potential to justify your cognitive dissonance. (see viral russell wilson vs. kaepernick montage) Regardless, it's good predictable fun. Cheers.

Not a Seahawk fan, nor am I bagging on Kaepernick. Other 49er fans have pointed out the decision making problems that I have pointed out as well. It's obviously a concern for some (and I'm guessing more than are willing to admit it).

This discussion has little to do with whether Kaepernick is or will be an elite QB. It's an attempt to quantify the degree of upgrade over Alex Smith (who everyone outside of Jim Harbaugh thinks is an elite QB). Assuming Kaep NEVER improves as a passing QB he would still be a massive upgrade over Smith just based on the picks we received in the exchange.

Yeah, you've said this before. And it's still strange.

We've crunched the numbers in past threads to know the difference of the QB's. All you're doing in biting at the ankles.

 

[Neofight]

Perhaps if I remove the names from the equation...

If QB A (26 yrs old/2 yrs experience) is already playing as good or better (as you say) than QB B (29 yrs old/9 yrs experience) who would you rather build your team around? Now consider that QB A is has much more raw physical talent, and you can also get 2 2nd round picks for QB B I'd say that's a pretty massive upgrade no?

As an aside I find it amusing when seahawk fans bag on Kaepernick especially when a lot of seahawk fans actually had him on their draft radar in 2011. I dunno if you guys feel some sort of need to downplay his accomplishments/potential to justify your cognitive dissonance. (see viral russell wilson vs. kaepernick montage) Regardless, it's good predictable fun. Cheers.

Not a Seahawk fan, nor am I bagging on Kaepernick. Other 49er fans have pointed out the decision making problems that I have pointed out as well. It's obviously a concern for some (and I'm guessing more than are willing to admit it).

This discussion has little to do with whether Kaepernick is or will be an elite QB. It's an attempt to quantify the degree of upgrade over Alex Smith (who everyone outside of Jim Harbaugh thinks is an elite QB). Assuming Kaep NEVER improves as a passing QB he would still be a massive upgrade over Smith just based on the picks we received in the exchange.

Yeah, you've said this before. And it's still strange.

We've crunched the numbers in past threads to know the difference of the QB's. All you're doing in biting at the ankles.

Who can resist those ankles?

 

[drummer]

ETA: 3rd down to me is a QB down. I screwed this thing up with my thoughts about Luck. Let's talk 3rd down.

I don't have any stats to back it up, other then what you have said already, but it "feels" much different this year. When it's 3rd and short, I'm pretty positive that we're going to pick it up. I don't remember having that kind of confidence in the last few years. Even in the GB game, a few 3rd and 6+ and I wasn't nervous about not completing it. Boldin's addition is huge here, extremely physical with an ability to find and sit an open spot.

I also feel like Kaep is running much more in the playoffs, which bodes well for 3rd down. I'm still pretty certain they told him to not run too much during the season, for fear if he got hurt the season was over. Although he still has a tendency to lock onto his primary target. The play that comes to mind is the almost pick 6 vs Carolina. Crabtree beat his corner on the slant, but Kaep missed the inside db, and almost threw a pick 6. But when they're showing replays, you see Kaep scanning more and more, a much bigger improvement. That deep 3rd down pass to Patton on the sideline early in the first drive was a thing of beauty, what was Patton, his 4th read on that play?

I don't remember what his reads were on specific plays against CAR, but I do recall Kaep during the regular season hesitant to run more on 3rd down, and trying to pass first. We've talked about that in this thread, where it seemed they were coaching his instinct to run out of him. Of course, they need him healthy so I don't mind him thinking pass first, but it kind of screwed things up in the pocket.

Had he ran more, the third down success may be even more improved upon. Still since 2011, they are lot better on third down, which is a good sign.

 

[drummer]

I dunno how accurate this data is (and feel free to chime in on it), but I was curious to look at the offense on 3rd down over the past three seasons. I don't need to look at the seasons before those three because I already know how bad they were on 3rd down, lol. Anyway, here is a link to their rankings or however they compile the data:

2011: http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct?date=2012-02-05

On this sites "rankings", the 49ers are slotted 31st above STL at 32nd. I can agree with that since all I complained about here in 2011 was how bad they were on 3rd down, lol, and posted how they were at the bottom of the league in that stat during that time.

2012: http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct?date=2013-02-03

I've posted on how the 49ers had improved on 3rd down when they switched from Kaep and Smith, but also, Smith and the rushing attack had some huge offensive games like against BUF yet the next game just flat out suck like against NYG, where Smith tossed 3 INTs. In fairness to Smith, Kaep also laid some huge eggs in games like against STL, NE (for a half), and of course SEA. But despite the mini QB turmoil, the drastic shift of QB style between Smith and Kaep, how the play calling and execution of offensive plays was affected by all that, they actually improved according to the ranking to 22nd.

I agree that they had improved on 3rd down, although not knowing exactly how much, but I know it was significant. I'm justing wondering how much more significant. If it's nine points above 2011, then yeah, I'll take that. 31st to 22nd is a significant jump.

2013: http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct

They make the jump from 22nd to 17th.

This is Kaep's first full 16 games sched, with he being the starter at camp, Smith traded, the de-facto starter of the 49ers, who he just lost as starting QB halfway into his second season. A young QB's first full 16 game sched is huge, and any young QB who can win his first full regular season into the playoffs is pretty darn phenomenal, like Wilson, Luck, etc.

~I think Luck is better than Wilson, and I think Wilson now is better than Kaep, with Luck way above both of them.~

Why would you put Luck way above Wilson or Kaep? It's not like Luck had a much better season in 2013, and certainly both Wilson and Kaep had better seasons in 2012. Both are more than a yard per attempt ahead of Luck, and both are better runners (though Luck's not bad). And both are still alive in the playoffs, while Luck threw seven INTs in two games.

That was a bit of a sidebar. I'm more curious about you think about the 3rd down progression.

As far as Luck, there is no argument on his impact overall as QB over Wilson and Kaep. If Luck was with Harbaugh, Roman, and Fangio from Year One in the NFL, well.....

Luck with Pete Carroll: that's insane too.

ETA: 3rd down to me is a QB down. I screwed this thing up with my thoughts about Luck. Let's talk 3rd down.

Luck with the 49ers or Seahawks would still be in a run first offense and have his lapses in judgement. His upside is huge, but he didn't come close to meeting it this year. I'd say even Kaepernick showed fewer critical lapses than Luck, though he is asked to do far less.

Luck in two full 16 game regular season scheds:

46 TDs to 27 INTs, with over 8000 yards passing.

Just for the lulz since you bring up Alex Smith, here is the same stats career wise of Smith since 2005:

104 TDs to 70 INTs, with over 17,000 yards passing.

I won't bring in Kaep until is he plays 2 consecutive 16 game scheds, because you basically know what kind of QB you have after two consecutive 16 game scheds. In fairness to Smith, he never played 2 full consecutive 16 game scheds.

If you're a Hawk fan, you should know Alex Smith since he played in the division since 2005 to 2012. But Hawk fans are the worst fans in the division - even Cardinal and Ram fans know Smith - because they never knew what division they were in until this season.

I remember a game against SEA where the 49ers just squeaked by them even though SEA didn't have hardly any WR's during the Mike Nolan era. That was a war of attrition.

Just stay out of this thread. You don't know 49er football because you never knew AFCW football. You were and still on the outside of the division you were in prior to 2002. I find it funny that Hawk fans decided to show up to the party this season. Now they are trying to tell me about the current 49er QB while forgetting the Montana/Allen KC Chief team beat your Rick Mirer led team twice.

 

[chinawildman]

If you had asked me a year ago after the Super Bowl loss whether we'd be back the following year, I would've told you that would be nice but doubtful given the recent trends of super bowl loser hangovers. If you were to ask me after Crabtree tore his achilles and Culliver his ACL in the offseason, I definitely would have said no way. And after starting 1-2 and seeing the offense struggle, I was almost ready to concede a lost season.

Yet here we are one game away from the big dance, AGAIN. While it hasn't exactly been a smooth ride, this season has definitely surpassed any expectations I had. This weekend's game will be the toughest postseason challenge to date counting the last playoff run. I'm not optimistic on them winning, but hey it's not like I haven't been wrong about them before… Sure makes for a nice "America's Game" season story doesn't it?

 

[goldenchild]

Was just reminded of another team last season that was "unbeatable" at home and finished at 13-3, whom the 49ers faced in the NFCCG... Look how that turned out

 

[thecatch]

Was just reminded of another team last season that was "unbeatable" at home and finished at 13-3, whom the 49ers faced in the NFCCG... Look how that turned out

SF was actually favored in that game.

 

[goldenchild]

Was just reminded of another team last season that was "unbeatable" at home and finished at 13-3, whom the 49ers faced in the NFCCG... Look how that turned out

SF was actually favored in that game.

SF was also the #2 seed, but that wasn't really the point. lol

 

[thecatch]

That hurts. Refs hosed us, and the franchise QB choked in the clutch. And a classless team and fan base (hooper and Russell Wilson excepted) advances. Bowman torn acl and iupati broken ankle. Ouch. Just ouch.

 

[flapgreen]

Deserved the win

 

[chinawildman]

Here's to a speedy recovery for Bowman and Iupati, niners have not been lucky on the injury front in 2013. Niners really need a speed/physical guy on offense at WR this offseason a la Josh Gordon. I really thought they were going to pull this one out, but it almost felt like the team was uncomfortable coming out at halftime with the lead as if they almost didn't know what to do. The offense started getting careless and the defense really gave up too many big plays. The way they were playing in the first half they made it way too easy for the Seattle offense.

 

[drummer]

I bet teh Webzonez server crashed for the evening.

 

[Wingnut]

SF could have really used Bruce Miller tonight.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

Deserved the win

Seriously? Did you watch the game?

 

[General Tso]

That hurts. Refs hosed us, and the franchise QB choked in the clutch. And a classless team and fan base (hooper and Russell Wilson excepted) advances. Bowman torn acl and iupati broken ankle. Ouch. Just ouch.

I'm not a Niners fan, but I feel for you guys. Definitely got hosed by the refs on some very big plays. And if Kaep puts one more foot on that throw you win the game. And that classless taunting by Seattle after the game was just about the worst thing I've ever seen in football. Classless and pathetic. Was glad to see your team take the high road after the game.You've got a great franchise, great fans, and a great young team. You'll be back.

Here's hoping that Seattle gets their arrogant asses kicked in two weeks. I don't think I could stomach seeing those clowns win.

 

[drummer]

I bet teh Webzonez server crashed for the evening.

I just checked it. The forum server crashed lol.

 

[Mark Davis]

Hoping the best for Iupati and Bowman in their recoveries. Hurts to lose a close game, had 2 rough ends in the past 2 weeks as I'm also an Auburn alum. It's funny, I don't really hate Seattle the way I did Dallas as a team because the long term history with them just isn't there. Given Sherman's actions after the game though I do pretty much hate him. Don't really care who wins the Super Bowl, but will always remember Sherman for the classless act. Even when winning or losing to the Cowboys other than some of the stuff from TO I always felt the 49ers did it with class.

 

[shadyridr]

I still love our qb

 

[Wingnut]

This one stings, but not quite as bad as losing the super bowl.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

Meh. Kumperdinc was a dropped pick-6 away from losing in the wildcard week to GB. You can't play this poorly and expect to win consistently. I think the 9ers got the most out of this game.

 

[Mark Davis]

This one stings, but not quite as bad as losing the super bowl.

Agreed. I went to the NFC Championship Game in Atlanta last year and almost went to New Orleans for the Super Bowl. Had something come up with my business I had to be in town for at 8 AM that following Monday morning which prevented it. In the end glad I didn't go for that one.