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Time to abandon the PPR? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter spider321
- Start date
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Graduated ppr works best
Ruffrodys05
IBL Representative
My league was slow to adopt PPR. We're heading into our15th year but it will only be our 3rd with PPR. So, we're gonna utilize it few a few more years and see how things shake out.
the spanker
Footballguy
What difference does it make really? In whatever format you play, everyone is playing under the same rules. Yes, I've heard how, because it's a passing league now, that negative yards a WR or RB should not be offset by a point or half-point--but in the end everyone is playing under he same rules.
While I personally don't care because I excel under non-ppr or ppr, my league mates are so use to playing it they probably wouldn't be on board to getting rid of it.
While I personally don't care because I excel under non-ppr or ppr, my league mates are so use to playing it they probably wouldn't be on board to getting rid of it.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
1.0 PPR is dumb. I like:
1.0 PPR for TEs
.75 for WRs
.5 for RBs.
Evens it out a little more.
That said, I agree that PPR is out of control. Even using my .5 scoring system, a RB should not get positive points for catching a screen pass that loses yardage.
1.0 PPR for TEs
.75 for WRs
.5 for RBs.
Evens it out a little more.
That said, I agree that PPR is out of control. Even using my .5 scoring system, a RB should not get positive points for catching a screen pass that loses yardage.
spider321
Footballguy
I disagree with your solution.
Ppr, by definition, arbitrarily awards moving the ball one way more than another.
Yards and TD's are what should be scored, and they should be scored the same for RB's, WR's, and TE's.
Yes, most TE's will score fewer fantasy points, but that is because most TE's are not as important to the offense as RB's and WR's.
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
By and large, that is true about TEs, but the true difference makers in real football become different makers in fantasy football as well. Guys like Gronk, Jordan Reed, Jimmy Graham (normally), etc.
spider321
Footballguy
The real football difference making TE's will still be difference making fantasy TE's without any PPR.
I always find myself agreeing with you. PPR is the solution to a problem that no longer exists, yet people adopted it just as the league was changing, so credit it with improvements that actually result from the changing NFL landscape, and have improved standard leagues as well.
Fresh Prince of Bel Nor
Footballguy
PPR all day.
I understand the argument that it feels a little cheap to get an extra point from an RB on a short pass that goes nowhere, but it beats the alternative...hoping that your RB can find the end zone in order to have a productive day. I can see and respect the value in having a top passing-down back that hauls in six passes in a game just as much as I like to see the thumpers pound it at the goal line.
It is not like every team has a high-end, 3rd-down back anyway. So what if Gio, Woody, and Theo have some value in PPR that they wouldn't have in standard? They are fun to watch and own...which is kind of the main reason we play.
I understand the argument that it feels a little cheap to get an extra point from an RB on a short pass that goes nowhere, but it beats the alternative...hoping that your RB can find the end zone in order to have a productive day. I can see and respect the value in having a top passing-down back that hauls in six passes in a game just as much as I like to see the thumpers pound it at the goal line.
It is not like every team has a high-end, 3rd-down back anyway. So what if Gio, Woody, and Theo have some value in PPR that they wouldn't have in standard? They are fun to watch and own...which is kind of the main reason we play.
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spider321
Footballguy
So, if Gio has 30 rushing yards & 5 catches for 25 yards, and AP has 100 yards rushing, Gio should score more points?!?!
Hooper31
Footballguy
This guys gets it. Scoring system is arbitrary. Being able to better understand and take advantage of your scoring system is where success comes from.
Fresh Prince of Bel Nor
Footballguy
Why not? Like I wrote, it is not like there are dozens of Gio Bernards out there. He plays an important real life role and PPR allows him to be important in fantasy as well.
In regards to that specific scenario, yes, rushing for 100 is a big deal and should be rewarded. And yes, five catches and 55 total yards probably wasn't as meaningful (maybe...big catches on 3rd down are huge though), but by the same token, a player who is shut down all game, but finds the ends zone late and tacks on a quick 6 points is pretty cheap too. Standard is just too touchdown-dependent for my taste.
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spider321
Footballguy
Hooper31
Footballguy
I wonder if you understand that this isn't an objective measure. It's subjective and therefore somewhat arbitrary. Good luck defining "actual NFL value". Is that wins? Is that yards? Is that points? When you realize your personal definition comes from a gut feeling, then you might better understand that other people's opinions about what they like are just as valid as yours. Actually, I probably shouldn't direct that comment at you, but at the other neanderthals in this thread that think there's a definite right and wrong way to put together a scoring system.spider321 said:
spider321
Footballguy
I understand that point, and agree with it to an extent.
Can I excel in that system? Yes. I'm sure that most of us that are on a fantasy football board in the start of summer know what we are doing.
I excelled with my league's old rules where return yards were scored the same as rushing and receiving yards by starting Josh Cribbs at WR every week. Heck, he led that fantasy league in scoring for 2 or 3 years in a row!
Finally, I was able to convince the commissioner that the scoring system we were using made little sense in relation to those players' actual NFL value.
The same is true of PPR in 2016.
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spider321
Footballguy
Yes, everything is subjective, that's why I oppose arbitrarily rewarding receiving yards more than rushing yards.
...so I guess I'm a Neanderthal, since I do think that ppr is most definitely the wrong way to put together a scoring system. :(
...but I do respect other people's right to be wrong.
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Not in the ppr league I run....a 100 yard rushing game = a 3 point bonus....plus we reward 0.1 point per carry on top of that.
spider321
Footballguy
So, 99 yards rushing and Gio still wins, right?
Nothing is more arbitrary than a points bonus once a guy hits 100 yards.
Why not award 0.1 points for each yard rushing and receiving instead?
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Yeah ok....the reality is just because you don't like a ppr league doesn't mean everyone does. Personally I would rather play in a ppr league then one where a goal line back can dominate a day because he got 3 td's that day on 4 carries. In my league's scoring system our top 10 ended up on a ppg basis:
- Antonio Brown
- Julio Jones
- Odell Beckham
- Devonta Freeman
- Brandon Marshall
- Jamaal Charles
- Deandre Hopkins
- Leveon Bell
- Keenan Allen
- Adrian Peterson
8 RB's in the top 20.
The only "check down" rb that did anything worth while was Woodhead....however if you look at his game logs he had quite a few stinkers with multiple games scoring less than 5 points in a ppr. So while Woodhead might do well on some weeks in a ppr, he is too inconsistent to rely on week to week.
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spider321
Footballguy
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ppg because you can't predict injuries. So guys like Gurley, Bell and Charles would all have finished in the top 20 for sure had they not been hurt or suspended during the season.
Run It Up
Footballguy
Didn't vote. There wasn't a "I'd rather there be a deeper player pool then automatically lose cause I wasn't a top 5 pick" option. I think this is the primary reason more and more people are playing ppr. 'Standard' is such a colossal waste of time unless you play with a bunch of fish.
I can't argue with people who prefer points per first down reception, but I think players should be rewarded for production. If a player caught a ball behind the line of scrimmage he did most of his job, you still subtract the negactive yardage.
I can't argue with people who prefer points per first down reception, but I think players should be rewarded for production. If a player caught a ball behind the line of scrimmage he did most of his job, you still subtract the negactive yardage.
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spider321
Footballguy
TD's are production.
Yards are production.
Pass attempts, carries, and receptions are not production.
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Run It Up
Footballguy
I disagree.
I also think snake drafts are inherently flawed and favor the first couple and last couple of draft slots.
If it isn't auction or banzai and I'd rather play bestball tbh.
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Yardage is no more production then receptions or carries in real Football. The only thing that is considered production is td's, fg's, xp's and 2 pt conversions.....but who would want to play in a fantasy football league like that the only scores for those things?
spider321
Footballguy
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the spanker
Footballguy
One of the primary reasons PPR became relevant was because of the demise of the STUD RB. Unless you had a high pick you couldn't get a 3-down back workhorse and therefore folks who drafted on the back-end of the first round were seriously already behind the 8-ball to compete with those fortunate enough to have a high draft pick.
I agree that non-ppr leagues are too TD dependent. You can have one guy who scores 3 or 4 rushing TDs on the day against or for you and whoever was unfortunate didn't have a snowballs chance to win that week. Half-point ppr leagues are IMHO the perfect balance between standard and full-point leagues. I still prefer ppr overall because it makes more players relevant to becoming fantasy contributors than standard scoring leagues.
As the OP stated, if return yards are a significant factor then you adjust your overall strategy to make the proper draft adjustments and waiver/trades to be competitive.
And I stated in my previous post, the scoring system is really irrelevant because everyone is playing under the same rules. It's about the individual exploiting the scoring system to his/her maximum benefit.
So I don't know why this is a debate to begin with. There is no perfect scoring system. It's all in the eyes of the beholder and that's why PPR scoring isn't going anywhere. Some folks prefer it for the reasons I stated above in this post.
I agree that non-ppr leagues are too TD dependent. You can have one guy who scores 3 or 4 rushing TDs on the day against or for you and whoever was unfortunate didn't have a snowballs chance to win that week. Half-point ppr leagues are IMHO the perfect balance between standard and full-point leagues. I still prefer ppr overall because it makes more players relevant to becoming fantasy contributors than standard scoring leagues.
As the OP stated, if return yards are a significant factor then you adjust your overall strategy to make the proper draft adjustments and waiver/trades to be competitive.
And I stated in my previous post, the scoring system is really irrelevant because everyone is playing under the same rules. It's about the individual exploiting the scoring system to his/her maximum benefit.
So I don't know why this is a debate to begin with. There is no perfect scoring system. It's all in the eyes of the beholder and that's why PPR scoring isn't going anywhere. Some folks prefer it for the reasons I stated above in this post.
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Tau837
Footballguy
I run one non-PPR dynasty league in which players get 0.5 points per first down rushing or receiving (i.e., not passing). I like the fact that IMO the scoring more directly rewards actual NFL value than PPR scoring does. It also results in good balance -- in total points, the top 10 RB/WR/TE players last season included 4 RBs and 6 WRs; in ppg, it was 6 RBs and 4 WRs. TEs are devalued somewhat, but that mirrors NFL value, and scarcity keeps the value of the quality TEs reasonably high even though they don't score as much.
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Fool-on-Stoopid
Footballguy
3 rbs in top 10 1 point ppr and 0.25 a carry
Freeman, Peterson, Martin
std scoring 4 in top 10
Freeman, Peterson, Martin, D. Williams
9 rbs in the top 20 1 point ppr and 0.25 a carry
D Williams, L Miller, Woodhead, David Johnson, Forte, Lat Murray
std scoring 9 rbs in the top 20
Gurley, Miller, David Johnson, Ivory, Forte
the next 4 players in 1 point ppr and 0.25 a carry are Rbs for 13 of the top 25
Gurley,Ivory,McFadden,Gore
11 in standard scoring with the addition of
L Murray,Woodhead
Scoring 1st to 25th
402 - 257 1 point ppr and 0.25 a carry
251- 162 std
couldn't vote in the poll as the options do not reflect reality
massraider
Footballguy
You're making strong arguments to back your position. Well done.spider321 said:
Oh wait, I'm thinking of every other person in this thread. My bad.
spider321
Footballguy
lol.
I was editing my original response as you quoted me.
Millennials do love overly complex solutions to fairness problems that don't exist, though.
Might explain why PPR is still around.
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spider321
Footballguy
I agree. That's why yardage should also be awarded with points.
Fractional scoring for each and every yard allows you to see your score change almost every time one of your players touches the ball; and it is obviously more precise than a point for every 10 yards, or bonus points for every 100 yards.
...but that's another discussion.
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Fred Lane
Footballguy
My league does not do a PPR; instead, a bonus of +1 for every ten yards (up to 50+) on the length of the TD score is awarded. This awards those "big play" players that can score from both far and near, so that a long TD score is worth more than a one-yard plunge into the end zone.
This is an interesting variant. Any chance you could link your league so I could see how the players ended up ranking in that one?
spider321
Footballguy
I think it's my gentle way of explaining my pov, and my charming personality, that invites the challenges.
Ppr has become the dominant setup. Hopefully, most people are starting to realize that should change.
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Fred Lane
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Why does anyone care how other people score their leagues? Seems almost as bizarre as being obsessed about what nicknames other people use for players.
spider321
Footballguy
Hankmoody
Footballguy
I agree with him and I'm no stalker. You have your opinion - great. It's bizarre how others aren't allowed to have theirs.
spider321
Footballguy
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gobrowns33
Footballguy
We bumped up RB scoring to .12 pts per rushing yard, compared to .1 for receiving yard. This and a graduated PPR scale has helped balance it.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
...so I guess I'm a Neanderthal, since I do think that ppr is most definitely the wrong way to put together a scoring system. :(
...but I do respect other people's right to be wrong.
You haven't allowed one person to have their own opinion.Millennials do love overly complex solutions to fairness problems that don't exist, though.
Might explain why PPR is still around.
spider321
Footballguy
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