What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

You know who else has a rapey past? (1 Viewer)

If Bill Clinton raped all these women, prosecute and lock him up for good. What are we waiting for? Darren Sharper sits in prison. What's the hold-up with Bill if we have all this slam dunk evidence? Press charges and let's go to trial. :shrug:
:shrug:

Bill Cosby down??
Oh, snap.

Let me repeat myself: If there is all this slam dunk evidence, why not charge him?
Who? Which one? The facts are not the same in all the allegations against Clinton and none of them approach Cosby's situation.

The difference is between Sharper/Cosby situation in which there were pills or a mickey secretly used and the common situation where a woman claims that she was forced to have sex. This is where the 'believe the woman' aspect comes in. But reality is that while we may support women who bring such allegations DA's don't think that's enough for a case. I think that's why Cosby didn't get charged the first time, but he has since admitted to using quaaludes on the record, which is the difference maker. No one has ever claimed that Clinton did anything like that. The stuff he is accused of is somewhere between Mad Men and that.
Yeah, I didn't bring up Bill Cosby. Hell Toupee did. And now Cosby is being charged. My point - again - is that if there is all this evidence of a rapey past with Bill Clinton, stop whining about it and charge his asssssssss. Right wing wackos have been whining about this for decades now. Tired of it. If he's a rapist, lock him up.

 
Yeah, I didn't bring up Bill Cosby. Hell Toupee did. And now Cosby is being charged. My point - again - is that if there is all this evidence of a rapey past with Bill Clinton, stop whining about it and charge his asssssssss. Right wing wackos have been whining about this for decades now. Tired of it. If he's a rapist, lock him up.
A lot of the stuff that Clinton is either accused of or known to be guilty of isn't really rape. Sexually harassing Paula Jones, for example, would be a good example of predatory and misogynistic behavior, but there's nothing criminal about it. The same applies to Monica Lewinsky -- Clinton's behavior would get him fired from practically all firms, but the affair itself didn't break any laws. (The subsequent perjury is obviously a different story). The only charge of actual criminal rape that I know of is a charge from decades ago, and I would have a major problem pursuing criminal charges that are that old without compelling forensic evidence to back them up. No idea what the statute of limitations on rape is in Arkansas.

 
General Malaise said:
HellToupee said:
If Bill Clinton raped all these women, prosecute and lock him up for good. What are we waiting for? Darren Sharper sits in prison. What's the hold-up with Bill if we have all this slam dunk evidence? Press charges and let's go to trial. :shrug:
:shrug:

Bill Cosby down??
Oh, snap.

Let me repeat myself: If there is all this slam dunk evidence, why not charge him?
Well fortunately for justice and your point Cosby was charged today after decades of raping. Maybe one day Bill will be formally charged.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
General Malaise said:
Yeah, I didn't bring up Bill Cosby. Hell Toupee did. And now Cosby is being charged. My point - again - is that if there is all this evidence of a rapey past with Bill Clinton, stop whining about it and charge his asssssssss. Right wing wackos have been whining about this for decades now. Tired of it. If he's a rapist, lock him up.
A lot of the stuff that Clinton is either accused of or known to be guilty of isn't really rape. Sexually harassing Paula Jones, for example, would be a good example of predatory and misogynistic behavior, but there's nothing criminal about it. The same applies to Monica Lewinsky -- Clinton's behavior would get him fired from practically all firms, but the affair itself didn't break any laws. (The subsequent perjury is obviously a different story). The only charge of actual criminal rape that I know of is a charge from decades ago, and I would have a major problem pursuing criminal charges that are that old without compelling forensic evidence to back them up. No idea what the statute of limitations on rape is in Arkansas.
"Was that wrong? Should I have not done that? I tell you I gotta plead ingnorance on this thing because if anyone had said anything to me at all when I first started here that that sort of thing was frowned upon, you know, cause I've worked in a lot of offices and I tell you people do that all the time."

 
General Malaise said:
HellToupee said:
If Bill Clinton raped all these women, prosecute and lock him up for good. What are we waiting for? Darren Sharper sits in prison. What's the hold-up with Bill if we have all this slam dunk evidence? Press charges and let's go to trial. :shrug:
:shrug:

Bill Cosby down??
Oh, snap.

Let me repeat myself: If there is all this slam dunk evidence, why not charge him?
Well fortunately for justice and your point Cosby was charged today after decades of raping. Maybe one day Bill will be formally charged.
I KNOW HE WAS CHARGED. I LINKED THE ARTICLE. :wall: :wall: :wall:

 
General Malaise said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
General Malaise said:
HellToupee said:
If Bill Clinton raped all these women, prosecute and lock him up for good. What are we waiting for? Darren Sharper sits in prison. What's the hold-up with Bill if we have all this slam dunk evidence? Press charges and let's go to trial. :shrug:
:shrug:

Bill Cosby down??
Oh, snap.

Let me repeat myself: If there is all this slam dunk evidence, why not charge him?
Who? Which one? The facts are not the same in all the allegations against Clinton and none of them approach Cosby's situation.

The difference is between Sharper/Cosby situation in which there were pills or a mickey secretly used and the common situation where a woman claims that she was forced to have sex. This is where the 'believe the woman' aspect comes in. But reality is that while we may support women who bring such allegations DA's don't think that's enough for a case. I think that's why Cosby didn't get charged the first time, but he has since admitted to using quaaludes on the record, which is the difference maker. No one has ever claimed that Clinton did anything like that. The stuff he is accused of is somewhere between Mad Men and that.
Yeah, I didn't bring up Bill Cosby. Hell Toupee did. And now Cosby is being charged. My point - again - is that if there is all this evidence of a rapey past with Bill Clinton, stop whining about it and charge his asssssssss. Right wing wackos have been whining about this for decades now. Tired of it. If he's a rapist, lock him up.
The only "evidence" is the claim by Juanita Broaderick. It's just her word. And it was a really long time ago. This is her on NBC Dateline in 1999. Do you think that's enough to charge much less convict anyone? The woman did go on national TV to talk about it.

Bill Cosby's accuser was actually turned away by the police, and unfortunately that's how it is for most women. Regardless of what you think or if you believe Bill Clinton should be charged, it wouldn't be enough. The only difference with Cosby is that he stated in a deposition that he gave women, including IIRC his accuser, quaaludes. Bill Clinton has never stated anything like that (and no one has ever accused him of that specific behavior).

If you look at the OP, which started this, the only other claim of "rape" was by an English girl who claimed she was raped by Clinton at Oxford in 1969 and apparently continued to say it for quite a while. Again that was a long time ago, it may not be true and Clinton has certainly never acknowledged it.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Kathleen Willey claimed Clinton raped her in the Oval Office in 1993, but her claims are pretty universally felt to lack credibility.

Broaddrick's credibility is something I think reasonable people can disagree on, but her affidavit in the Jones case renders a criminal conviction nearly impossible even if you never consider the statute of limitations.

In any case there is nothing close to Cosby's deposition testimony implicating Clinton.

 
General Malaise said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
General Malaise said:
HellToupee said:
If Bill Clinton raped all these women, prosecute and lock him up for good. What are we waiting for? Darren Sharper sits in prison. What's the hold-up with Bill if we have all this slam dunk evidence? Press charges and let's go to trial. :shrug:
:shrug:

Bill Cosby down??
Oh, snap.

Let me repeat myself: If there is all this slam dunk evidence, why not charge him?
Who? Which one? The facts are not the same in all the allegations against Clinton and none of them approach Cosby's situation.

The difference is between Sharper/Cosby situation in which there were pills or a mickey secretly used and the common situation where a woman claims that she was forced to have sex. This is where the 'believe the woman' aspect comes in. But reality is that while we may support women who bring such allegations DA's don't think that's enough for a case. I think that's why Cosby didn't get charged the first time, but he has since admitted to using quaaludes on the record, which is the difference maker. No one has ever claimed that Clinton did anything like that. The stuff he is accused of is somewhere between Mad Men and that.
Yeah, I didn't bring up Bill Cosby. Hell Toupee did. And now Cosby is being charged. My point - again - is that if there is all this evidence of a rapey past with Bill Clinton, stop whining about it and charge his asssssssss. Right wing wackos have been whining about this for decades now. Tired of it. If he's a rapist, lock him up.
The only "evidence" is the claim by Juanita Broaderick. It's just her word. And it was a really long time ago. This is her on NBC Dateline in 1999. Do you think that's enough to charge much less convict anyone? The woman did go on national TV to talk about it.

Bill Cosby's accuser was actually turned away by the police, and unfortunately that's how it is for most women. Regardless of what you think or if you believe Bill Clinton should be charged, it wouldn't be enough. The only difference with Cosby is that he stated in a deposition that he gave women, including IIRC his accuser, quaaludes. Bill Clinton has never stated anything like that (and no one has ever accused him of that specific behavior).

If you look at the OP, which started this, the only other claim of "rape" was by an English girl who claimed she was raped by Clinton at Oxford in 1969 and apparently continued to say it for quite a while. Again that was a long time ago, it may not be true and Clinton has certainly never acknowledged it.
Maybe we all misunderstood him due to his accent. Maybe he didn't say "I never inhaled", maybe we just misheard him when he said "I never impaled".

 
Kathleen Willey claimed Clinton raped her in the Oval Office in 1993, but her claims are pretty universally felt to lack credibility.

Broaddrick's credibility is something I think reasonable people can disagree on, but her affidavit in the Jones case renders a criminal conviction nearly impossible even if you never consider the statute of limitations.

In any case there is nothing close to Cosby's deposition testimony implicating Clinton.
The actual Oval Office in the White House, or is that a euphemism for the oval orifice, the back room, Willie %^&*@!'s Chocolate Factory?

Why are we re-plowing this old ground? Why the effort now to throw dirt on the already soddened man?

 
If Bill Clinton raped all these women, prosecute and lock him up for good. What are we waiting for? Darren Sharper sits in prison. What's the hold-up with Bill if we have all this slam dunk evidence? Press charges and let's go to trial. :shrug:
:shrug:

Bill Cosby down??
Oh, snap.

Let me repeat myself: If there is all this slam dunk evidence, why not charge him?
Well fortunately for justice and your point Cosby was charged today after decades of raping. Maybe one day Bill will be formally charged.
I KNOW HE WAS CHARGED. I LINKED THE ARTICLE. :wall: :wall: :wall:
:oldunsure: uh yeah... I know... that's what I was responding to..

 
The only positive to Hillary getting elected would be to see Billy back in the WH. I just want to see a few pictures of him smiling in the oval office. The comedic joy we will get out of moments like that may be worth putting up with her. Because we all know darn well nothing is going to change no matter who is elected anyways.

 
I agree with BS - you're gonna need live video/audio to make a difference. And he was talking to his biographer, not trashing Jones in public or with henchmen.

However:

Clinton also said he believed the IRS had good reason to audit Jones, although he said he did not order the agency to target her. Jones was audited in 1997 during her lawsuit against Clinton, and her supporters claim she was singled out for political reasons.
- Uhm, yeah, funny how that happened to happen, I just can't imagine why more women don't come forward, weird....

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Juanita Broaddrick ‏@atensnut 3h3 hours ago

I was 35 years old when Bill Clinton, Ark. Attorney General raped me and Hillary tried to silence me. I am now 73....it never goes away.
- I have nothing to say about the proof or non-proof of what Broaderick claimed.

But - it is something that this woman is 73 years old and still shouting it from the rooftops, 38 years later.

The rape allegation against Bill Clinton, explained...Over the phone, Broaddrick confirmed to me that the account is hers, and said she was moved to tweet because she was sickened by seeing the Clintons on the campaign trail again.

...So far, this issue has mostly been raised by conservative media and Republican politicians like Prudhomme-O'Brien. But it's a substantive matter worthy of coverage from non-right-wing outlets as well. There really are multiple accusations of sexual assault against Bill Clinton, accusations that have too often been conflated with his much better-established and much less morally concerning history of adultery. Are the women making these accusations survivors who deserve to be believed, to borrow Hillary Clinton's language? Or, as she later insisted, have their accusations all been found to be baseless?

The basic answer is that some of the claims appear more credible than others. There are three main accusers, of whom it seems by far the most credible — based on the publicly available evidence — is Broaddrick. Jones's claim was aired for years and faced several major problems (including the fact that she claimed the president's penis had a "distinguishing mark" that doctors and Monica Lewinsky said it did not have), and Willey repeatedly lied to federal investigators and changed her story dramatically between grand jury testimony and a deposition in the Jones case (among other issues).

But Broaddrick's allegation, while hardly proven, has not been definitively refuted. Only Broaddrick and Bill Clinton know what the truth of the matter in the case is. But if one generally believes it's important to believe the victim, it's hard to argue that this case should be an exception.

What Juanita Broaddrick says Bill Clinton didJuanita Broaddrick gave a lengthy account of her alleged rape in a 1999 Dateline NBC interview (which has been posted in its entirety by the right-wing Media Research Center; the anti-Clinton site Shadowgov.com has a transcript that aligns with the NBC recording):

The interview was conducted on January 20, 1999, before the Senate on February 12 ultimately acquitted Clinton on charges related to his affair with Monica Lewinsky. NBC delayed airing until February 24, and Broaddrick, frustrated, gave accounts to the Wall Street Journal editorial page, the Washington Post, and the New York Times in the meantime.

In 1978, Broaddrick was volunteering for Clinton's gubernatorial campaign, and claims she met him when he visited his campaign office in her hometown of Van Buren, Arkansas, that April. She says he then invited her to visit his office in Little Rock, which Broaddrick agreed to do a week later, when she was in the state capitol for a conference of nursing home administrators. Once she was at a hotel in Little Rock, she claims Clinton told her that he wasn't going to the campaign headquarters and offered to meet her in her hotel lobby coffee shop instead. Once he arrived, she says he called her room and suggested that they have coffee there, since the lobby had too many reporters. Broaddrick says she agreed. Then, per the Post story:

As she tells the story, they spent only a few minutes chatting by the window -- Clinton pointed to an old jail he wanted to renovate if he became governor -- before he began kissing her. She resisted his advances, she said, but soon he pulled her back onto the bed and forcibly had sex with her. She said she did not scream because everything happened so quickly. Her upper lip was bruised and swollen after the encounter because, she said, he had grabbed onto it with his mouth.

"The last thing he said to me was, 'You better get some ice for that.' And he put on his sunglasses and walked out the door," she recalled.

...

As Goldberg notes, some of the conservatives resurfacing the Broaddrick case are clearly doing so in bad faith to attack the presidential campaign of Hillary Clinton, who certainly did not personally assault Broaddrick (Broaddrick's allegations of intimidation aside). But the Clinton critics have a point. There is a crucial tension between "believe survivors" and the "Juanita Broaddrick is lying" position of some Clinton defenders, lacking further information.

One answer might be giving up the former position. Many, including Harvard Law's Jeannie Suk, have argued that defaulting to believing every accusation of rape "harms the overall credibility of sexual assault claims," given that false claims do happen, albeit quite rarely. But whatever the merits of that view, adopting it would be a big pivot for Hillary Clinton, given that just a couple of months ago she was tweeting, "Every survivor of sexual assault deserves to be heard, believed, and supported." There's no easy way to reconcile that view with her allies' dismissal of Broaddrick's allegations.
http://www.vox.com/2016/1/6/10722580/bill-clinton-juanita-broaddrick?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=dylanmatt&utm_content=wednesday

- This is a pretty long, good, even handed article. This writer is not a conservative and Vox usually leans pretty progressive IMO.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
One other thought on this - Dylan Matthews at Vox is pretty young. This article might give an indication of how the old allegations of the 1970s-2000's might be seen in a brand new, modern light by the younger generation of pundits and voters.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The Bill Clinton scandal machine revs back up and takes aim at his wife

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-bill-clinton-scandal-machine-revs-up-and-takes-aim-at-his-wife/2016/01/06/a08cf550-b4be-11e5-a76a-0b5145e8679a_story.html

The ghosts of the 1990s have returned to confront Hillary Clinton, released from the vault by Donald Trump and revved up by a 21st-century version of the scandal machine that almost destroyed her husband’s presidency.

This is a moment that her campaign has long expected. What remains to be seen is whether a reminder of allegations of sexual impropriety against Bill Clinton — which were deemed to have varying levels of credibility when they were first aired — can gain new traction in a different context.

The fresher case being made is that Hillary Clinton has been, at a minimum, hypocritical about her husband’s treatment of women, and possibly even complicit in discrediting his accusers.

And it is being pressed at a time when there is a new sensitivity toward victims of unwanted sexual contact, and when one of the biggest news stories is the prosecution of once-beloved comedian Bill Cosby on charges that he drugged and assaulted a woman 12 years ago — one of dozens who have accused him of similar behavior.

In November, Hillary Clinton tweeted: “Every survivor of sexual assault deserves to be heard, believed, and supported.” She has made women’s issues a central focus of her campaign and is counting on a swell of support for the historic prospect of the first female president.

Clinton’s campaign appears confident that Americans will see all of this as old news, and that her husband will remain an asset to her efforts to get his old job. It is happening early in the campaign season, and Trump himself has come under heavy criticism for his many boorish comments about women.

Trump started hammering on Bill Clinton’s behavior in retaliation for Hillary Clinton’s assertion, during a pre-Christmas interview with the Des Moines Register, that Trump has demonstrated a “penchant for sexism.”

“Hillary Clinton has announced that she is letting her husband out to campaign but HE’S DEMONSTRATED A PENCHANT FOR SEXISM, so inappropriate!” Trump tweeted on Dec. 26.

In an interview Monday on CNN, Trump amped up his rhetoric, calling Bill Clinton “one of the great women abusers of all time” and saying Hillary Clinton was his “enabler.”

Both Clintons have declined to comment on Trump’s latest barrages against them.

Until Trump turned his outsized media spotlight to Bill Clinton’s past sexual behavior, the issue had largely receded to the darker corners of the Internet, although it had continued to percolate.

Last month, a woman in the audience at a Clinton campaign event in New Hampshire asked her: “You say that all rape victims should be believed. But would you say that about Juanita Broaddrick, Kathleen Willey and/or Paula Jones?”

It was not a spontaneous question. The woman read from a card and mispronounced the first two names she mentioned.

But to anyone who followed the sagas of the Clinton presidency, they were familiar ones:

●Broaddrick had accused Bill Clinton of raping her in 1978, when she was working on his Arkansas gubernatorial campaign.

●Willey, a former White House volunteer, said he had attempted to kiss and grope her in a private hallway leading to the Oval Office.

●Jones, a onetime Arkansas state employee, sued Clinton in 1994 for sexual harassment, saying he had three years earlier exposed his erect penis to her and asked her to kiss it.

And, of course, the biggest of all was the scandal over Clinton’s extramarital affair with Monica Lewinsky, who was a White House intern at the time. Diane Blair, a close friend of Hillary Clinton, wrote in her journal unearthed in 2014 that the then-first lady had privately called Lewinsky a “narcissistic loony toon.”

Publicly, Clinton’s defenders were at times brutal in their characterizations of the women who made sexual allegations against him. “If you drag a hundred-dollar bill through a trailer park, you never know what you’ll find,” James Carville, Bill Clinton’s former strategist, once said.

Yet Bill Clinton settled Jones’s lawsuit in November 1998 for $850,000, acknowledging no wrongdoing and offering no apology. Just under a month later, he was impeached by the House on charges of perjury and obstruction of justice that stemmed from Jones’s lawsuit; he was acquitted by the Senate.

He also denied both Willey and Broaddrick’s allegations.

But all of these past accusations are being stirred up again, including by some who claim they were his victims.

Broaddrick, now a Trump supporter, tweeted Wednesday: “I was 35 years old when Bill Clinton, Ark. Attorney General raped me and Hillary tried to silence me. I am now 73. . . .it never goes away.”

In an interview, she said she had watched Bill Clinton’s first solo campaign appearance on his wife’s behalf on television Monday.

“He looked so beaten, and he looked like everything in his past was catching up to him. He looked so downtrodden. It made my heart sing,” Broaddrick said.

And she is not the only one.

Tom Watson, owner of Maverick Investigations, an Arizona-based private investigative agency, built a website — “A Scandal a Day” — for Willey last spring, shortly after Hillary Clinton declared she was running for president. It aims to bring forward new allegations.

The site went live in June, Watson said, and in the first two hours it received 100,000 hits.

“Kathleen is going to be very popular this year,” Watson predicted.

Last month, Aaron Klein, a writer for such right-of-center publications as World Net Daily and host of a weekly radio talk show, wrote an article on Breitbart.com headlined “In Their Own Words: Why Bill’s ‘Bimbos’ Fear a Hillary Presidency.”

In it, Klein described how his radio program had become “a support center of sorts” for Bill Clinton’s female accusers — “a safe-space for these women to sound off about the way they were allegedly treated by both Bill and Hillary.”

In the article, Klein quotes Broaddrick, Willey and Gennifer Flowers, an actress who had an affair with Clinton when he was governor.

In what Klein described as Flowers’s only interview since Clinton announced her candidacy, Flowers accused Hillary of being “an enabler that has encouraged [bill] to go out and do whatever he does with women.”

“I think it’s a joke,” Klein quotes Flowers as saying, “that she would run on women’s issues.”
 
I'm not sure I see a reason to attack Hillary by bringing up Bill's issues. Mentioning the allegations of Hillary intimidating victims seems like it would be the way to go if you wanted to take this political angle.

 
I'm not sure I see a reason to attack Hillary by bringing up Bill's issues. Mentioning the allegations of Hillary intimidating victims seems like it would be the way to go if you wanted to take this political angle.
Flowers accused Hillary of being “an enabler that has encouraged [bill] to go out and do whatever he does with women.”

“I think it’s a joke,” Klein quotes Flowers as saying, “that she would run on women’s issues.”

 
I'm not sure I see a reason to attack Hillary by bringing up Bill's issues. Mentioning the allegations of Hillary intimidating victims seems like it would be the way to go if you wanted to take this political angle.
Flowers accused Hillary of being an enabler that has encouraged [bill] to go out and do whatever he does with women.

I think its a joke, Klein quotes Flowers as saying, that she would run on womens issues.
It's Hillary's fault Bill allegedly assaulted women?

 
One other thought on this - Dylan Matthews at Vox is pretty young. This article might give an indication of how the old allegations of the 1970s-2000's might be seen in a brand new, modern light by the younger generation of pundits and voters.
I liked Vox's take here. Even-handed and illuminating. Not sure how much of a problem it will present for Hillary (my guess is that women will consider her a victim more so than an enabler), but it's still a good read as this stuff gets pushed back into the limelight.

 
One other thought on this - Dylan Matthews at Vox is pretty young. This article might give an indication of how the old allegations of the 1970s-2000's might be seen in a brand new, modern light by the younger generation of pundits and voters.
I liked Vox's take here. Even-handed and illuminating. Not sure how much of a problem it will present for Hillary (my guess is that women will consider her a victim more so than an enabler), but it's still a good read as this stuff gets pushed back into the limelight.
I think he pretty dramatically undersold Broaddrick's affidavit in the Jones case. I don't agree with Blumenthal that it absolutely destroys any shred of her credibility, but its a pretty big hit. It did read as if it was drafted by a lawyer trying to say something short of a complete denial, but the lawyer, unfortunately, failed.

 
I'm not sure I see a reason to attack Hillary by bringing up Bill's issues. Mentioning the allegations of Hillary intimidating victims seems like it would be the way to go if you wanted to take this political angle.
Flowers accused Hillary of being an enabler that has encouraged [bill] to go out and do whatever he does with women.

I think its a joke, Klein quotes Flowers as saying, that she would run on womens issues.
It's Hillary's fault Bill allegedly assaulted women?
Fault? no.

Did she look past his behavior and intimidate accusers for the sake of political expediency? Sounds like it.

Is she a hypocrite when she claims to be a crusader for women's issues? Absolutely.

 
sublimeone said:
AnonymousBob said:
sublimeone said:
AnonymousBob said:
I'm not sure I see a reason to attack Hillary by bringing up Bill's issues. Mentioning the allegations of Hillary intimidating victims seems like it would be the way to go if you wanted to take this political angle.
Flowers accused Hillary of being an enabler that has encouraged [bill] to go out and do whatever he does with women.

I think its a joke, Klein quotes Flowers as saying, that she would run on womens issues.
It's Hillary's fault Bill allegedly assaulted women?
Fault? no.

Did she look past his behavior and intimidate accusers for the sake of political expediency? Sounds like it.

Is she a hypocrite when she claims to be a crusader for women's issues? Absolutely.
What would you have had her do? I can see hammering her on the allegations of intimidating victims. That's imo a potentially viable line of attack. But attacking her for her husband's actions seems incredibly weak. Not going out of her way to throw her husband under the bus could have been done for her own political career or it could have been other reasons. Plenty of non political women have stood by their husband despite various allegations.

If this angle is the angle her critics are taking, imo it will backfire horribly, as it should. There are so many things one can criticize Hillary for. What Bill did shouldn't be one of them.

 
sublimeone said:
AnonymousBob said:
sublimeone said:
AnonymousBob said:
I'm not sure I see a reason to attack Hillary by bringing up Bill's issues. Mentioning the allegations of Hillary intimidating victims seems like it would be the way to go if you wanted to take this political angle.
Flowers accused Hillary of being an enabler that has encouraged [bill] to go out and do whatever he does with women.

I think its a joke, Klein quotes Flowers as saying, that she would run on womens issues.
It's Hillary's fault Bill allegedly assaulted women?
Fault? no.

Did she look past his behavior and intimidate accusers for the sake of political expediency? Sounds like it.

Is she a hypocrite when she claims to be a crusader for women's issues? Absolutely.
A hypocrite on women's issues would be a politician who promised to pursue them and then, once in office, did not do so. That's not Hillary. But if you truly believe that, which specific women's issues would you like to see her pursue? Equal pay? Reproductive rights? Paid maternal leave care? Which of these has Hillary failed to push to your satisfaction?

 
sublimeone said:
Fault? no.Did she look past his behavior and intimidate accusers for the sake of political expediency? Sounds like it.

Is she a hypocrite when she claims to be a crusader for women's issues? Absolutely.
A hypocrite on women's issues would be a politician who promised to pursue them and then, once in office, did not do so. That's not Hillary.But if you truly believe that, which specific women's issues would you like to see her pursue? Equal pay? Reproductive rights? Paid maternal leave care? Which of these has Hillary failed to push to your satisfaction?
She has been an advocate for women's issues for years, and it is not like she just looked at the recent poll numbers and decided to change her position. I think she has supported women's issues for as long as she has been in public life or at least since the 90s. There are many valid things one can criticize Hillary for, but being a hypocrite on women's issues has not been one of them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-womens-rights_55e8cac4e4b093be51bb054f

20 Years Ago Today, Hillary Clinton Gave A Rallying Cry For Women's Rights

On Sept. 5, 1995, then-first lady Hillary Clinton gave a forceful defense of women’s rights, declaring that “human rights are women’s rights, and women’s rights are human rights” in a famous address at the United Nations Fourth World Conference on Women held in Beijing.

“If there is one message that echoes forth from this conference, let it be that human rights are women's rights, and women's rights are human rights, once and for all,” she said.
 
sublimeone said:
AnonymousBob said:
sublimeone said:
AnonymousBob said:
I'm not sure I see a reason to attack Hillary by bringing up Bill's issues. Mentioning the allegations of Hillary intimidating victims seems like it would be the way to go if you wanted to take this political angle.
Flowers accused Hillary of being an enabler that has encouraged [bill] to go out and do whatever he does with women.

I think its a joke, Klein quotes Flowers as saying, that she would run on womens issues.
It's Hillary's fault Bill allegedly assaulted women?
Fault? no.

Did she look past his behavior and intimidate accusers for the sake of political expediency? Sounds like it.

Is she a hypocrite when she claims to be a crusader for women's issues? Absolutely.
What would you have had her do? I can see hammering her on the allegations of intimidating victims. That's imo a potentially viable line of attack. But attacking her for her husband's actions seems incredibly weak. Not going out of her way to throw her husband under the bus could have been done for her own political career or it could have been other reasons. Plenty of non political women have stood by their husband despite various allegations.

If this angle is the angle her critics are taking, imo it will backfire horribly, as it should. There are so many things one can criticize Hillary for. What Bill did shouldn't be one of them.
This is all that is happening. If she's so concerned about women and potential abuse and she's going to make it one of her talking points, she's, correctly, going to be called out on her hypocrisy.

The bigger picture is she's an untrustworthy person. She's willing to claw, tooth and nail, destroy people, lie, and do whatever else is necessary to attain power. That is who Hillary Clinton is and this is just another example of that behavior.

 
sublimeone said:
Fault? no.Did she look past his behavior and intimidate accusers for the sake of political expediency? Sounds like it.

Is she a hypocrite when she claims to be a crusader for women's issues? Absolutely.
A hypocrite on women's issues would be a politician who promised to pursue them and then, once in office, did not do so. That's not Hillary.But if you truly believe that, which specific women's issues would you like to see her pursue? Equal pay? Reproductive rights? Paid maternal leave care? Which of these has Hillary failed to push to your satisfaction?
She has been an advocate for women's issues for years, and it is not like she just looked at the recent poll numbers and decided to change her position. I think she has supported women's issues for as long as she has been in public life or at least since the 90s. There are many valid things one can criticize Hillary for, but being a hypocrite on women's issues has not been one of them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-womens-rights_55e8cac4e4b093be51bb054f

20 Years Ago Today, Hillary Clinton Gave A Rallying Cry For Women's Rights

On Sept. 5, 1995, then-first lady Hillary Clinton gave a forceful defense of women’s rights, declaring that “human rights are women’s rights, and women’s rights are human rights” in a famous address at the United Nations Fourth World Conference on Women held in Beijing.

“If there is one message that echoes forth from this conference, let it be that human rights are women's rights, and women's rights are human rights, once and for all,” she said.
her words ring hollow when contrasted to the actions she took when multiple women accused her husband of harassment and worse

 
sublimeone said:
Fault? no.Did she look past his behavior and intimidate accusers for the sake of political expediency? Sounds like it.

Is she a hypocrite when she claims to be a crusader for women's issues? Absolutely.
A hypocrite on women's issues would be a politician who promised to pursue them and then, once in office, did not do so. That's not Hillary.But if you truly believe that, which specific women's issues would you like to see her pursue? Equal pay? Reproductive rights? Paid maternal leave care? Which of these has Hillary failed to push to your satisfaction?
She has been an advocate for women's issues for years, and it is not like she just looked at the recent poll numbers and decided to change her position. I think she has supported women's issues for as long as she has been in public life or at least since the 90s. There are many valid things one can criticize Hillary for, but being a hypocrite on women's issues has not been one of them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-womens-rights_55e8cac4e4b093be51bb054f

20 Years Ago Today, Hillary Clinton Gave A Rallying Cry For Women's Rights

On Sept. 5, 1995, then-first lady Hillary Clinton gave a forceful defense of women’s rights, declaring that “human rights are women’s rights, and women’s rights are human rights” in a famous address at the United Nations Fourth World Conference on Women held in Beijing.

“If there is one message that echoes forth from this conference, let it be that human rights are women's rights, and women's rights are human rights, once and for all,” she said.
her words ring hollow when contrasted to the actions she took when multiple women accused her husband of harassment and worse
None of which was ever proven, but carry on.

Saints has correctly claimed that Bill's relationship with Monica Lewinsky would probably be viewed as sexual harassment by today's standards, but it wasn't characterized that way at the time. And Lewinsky herself never referred to it as sexual harassment and has always to gone to great lengths to emphasize that the affair was consensual. And, of course, Paula Jones suit was dismissed and then settled on appeal without being adjudicated. And the other claims of harassment went nowhere in the legal system.

 
sublimeone said:
Fault? no.Did she look past his behavior and intimidate accusers for the sake of political expediency? Sounds like it.

Is she a hypocrite when she claims to be a crusader for women's issues? Absolutely.
A hypocrite on women's issues would be a politician who promised to pursue them and then, once in office, did not do so. That's not Hillary.But if you truly believe that, which specific women's issues would you like to see her pursue? Equal pay? Reproductive rights? Paid maternal leave care? Which of these has Hillary failed to push to your satisfaction?
She has been an advocate for women's issues for years, and it is not like she just looked at the recent poll numbers and decided to change her position. I think she has supported women's issues for as long as she has been in public life or at least since the 90s. There are many valid things one can criticize Hillary for, but being a hypocrite on women's issues has not been one of them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-womens-rights_55e8cac4e4b093be51bb054f

20 Years Ago Today, Hillary Clinton Gave A Rallying Cry For Women's Rights

On Sept. 5, 1995, then-first lady Hillary Clinton gave a forceful defense of women’s rights, declaring that “human rights are women’s rights, and women’s rights are human rights” in a famous address at the United Nations Fourth World Conference on Women held in Beijing.

“If there is one message that echoes forth from this conference, let it be that human rights are women's rights, and women's rights are human rights, once and for all,” she said.
her words ring hollow when contrasted to the actions she took when multiple women accused her husband of harassment and worse
None of which was ever proven, but carry on.

Saints has correctly claimed that Bill's relationship with Monica Lewinsky would probably be viewed as sexual harassment by today's standards, but it wasn't characterized that way at the time. And Lewinsky herself never referred to it as sexual harassment and has always to gone to great lengths to emphasize that the affair was consensual. And, of course, Paula Jones suit was dismissed and then settled on appeal without being adjudicated. And the other claims of harassment went nowhere in the legal system.
it was never proven that multiple women accused Bill of harassment and worse?

 
Saints has correctly claimed that Bill's relationship with Monica Lewinsky would probably be viewed as sexual harassment by today's standards, but it wasn't characterized that way at the time.
I certainly was characterizing it as that way at the time. The idea that a power imbalance automatically creates a consent issue was very well established by the 1990s.

 
A hypocrite on women's issues would be a politician who promised to pursue them and then, once in office, did not do so. That's not Hillary.
That's not the usual standard we use to define hypocrisy in political terms. For example, a regrettably large number of Republicans have been (rightly) deemed hypocrites for criticizing homosexuality and advocating for anti-gay legislation when they personally turned out to be gay.

Hillary presents a great analogy here. She publicly argues for women's issues and advocates"pro-woman" legislation, but when it comes to her own personal life she doesn't merely turn a blind eye to sexual harassment and rape, but she actively defends it. She's the exact analog of the Gay Republican Evangelical.

 
A hypocrite on women's issues would be a politician who promised to pursue them and then, once in office, did not do so. That's not Hillary.
That's not the usual standard we use to define hypocrisy in political terms. For example, a regrettably large number of Republicans have been (rightly) deemed hypocrites for criticizing homosexuality and advocating for anti-gay legislation when they personally turned out to be gay.

Hillary presents a great analogy here. She publicly argues for women's issues and advocates"pro-woman" legislation, but when it comes to her own personal life she doesn't merely turn a blind eye to sexual harassment and rape, but she actively defends it. She's the exact analog of the Gay Republican Evangelical.
She's a female misogynist.

 
sublimeone said:
Fault? no.Did she look past his behavior and intimidate accusers for the sake of political expediency? Sounds like it.

Is she a hypocrite when she claims to be a crusader for women's issues? Absolutely.
A hypocrite on women's issues would be a politician who promised to pursue them and then, once in office, did not do so. That's not Hillary.But if you truly believe that, which specific women's issues would you like to see her pursue? Equal pay? Reproductive rights? Paid maternal leave care? Which of these has Hillary failed to push to your satisfaction?
She has been an advocate for women's issues for years, and it is not like she just looked at the recent poll numbers and decided to change her position. I think she has supported women's issues for as long as she has been in public life or at least since the 90s. There are many valid things one can criticize Hillary for, but being a hypocrite on women's issues has not been one of them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-womens-rights_55e8cac4e4b093be51bb054f

20 Years Ago Today, Hillary Clinton Gave A Rallying Cry For Women's Rights

On Sept. 5, 1995, then-first lady Hillary Clinton gave a forceful defense of women’s rights, declaring that “human rights are women’s rights, and women’s rights are human rights” in a famous address at the United Nations Fourth World Conference on Women held in Beijing.

“If there is one message that echoes forth from this conference, let it be that human rights are women's rights, and women's rights are human rights, once and for all,” she said.
her words ring hollow when contrasted to the actions she took when multiple women accused her husband of harassment and worse
None of which was ever proven, but carry on.

Saints has correctly claimed that Bill's relationship with Monica Lewinsky would probably be viewed as sexual harassment by today's standards, but it wasn't characterized that way at the time. And Lewinsky herself never referred to it as sexual harassment and has always to gone to great lengths to emphasize that the affair was consensual. And, of course, Paula Jones suit was dismissed and then settled on appeal without being adjudicated. And the other claims of harassment went nowhere in the legal system.
it was never proven that multiple women accused Bill of harassment and worse?
Are you trying to be obtuse? The allegations themselves were never proven, not that they weren't made.

 
The fact of the matter is Hillary is on record that woman who make accusations deserve the right to be believed yet she actively worked to discredit women who accused her husband. That is why her word rings hollow on anything she might say regarding woman's rights.

 
A hypocrite on women's issues would be a politician who promised to pursue them and then, once in office, did not do so. That's not Hillary.
That's not the usual standard we use to define hypocrisy in political terms. For example, a regrettably large number of Republicans have been (rightly) deemed hypocrites for criticizing homosexuality and advocating for anti-gay legislation when they personally turned out to be gay.

Hillary presents a great analogy here. She publicly argues for women's issues and advocates"pro-woman" legislation, but when it comes to her own personal life she doesn't merely turn a blind eye to sexual harassment and rape, but she actively defends it. She's the exact analog of the Gay Republican Evangelical.
How has she actively defended Bill's behavior?

 
A hypocrite on women's issues would be a politician who promised to pursue them and then, once in office, did not do so. That's not Hillary.
That's not the usual standard we use to define hypocrisy in political terms. For example, a regrettably large number of Republicans have been (rightly) deemed hypocrites for criticizing homosexuality and advocating for anti-gay legislation when they personally turned out to be gay.

Hillary presents a great analogy here. She publicly argues for women's issues and advocates"pro-woman" legislation, but when it comes to her own personal life she doesn't merely turn a blind eye to sexual harassment and rape, but she actively defends it. She's the exact analog of the Gay Republican Evangelical.
How has she actively defended Bill's behavior?
Vast right wing conspiracy.

 
The fact of the matter is Hillary is on record that woman who make accusations deserve the right to be believed yet she actively worked to discredit women who accused her husband. That is why her word rings hollow on anything she might say regarding woman's rights.
Yes and she also on record for saying the following (which those of your ilk never mention):

Jake Tapper @jaketapper

.@HillaryClinton response: "Well, I would say that everyone should be believed at first until they are disbelieved based on evidence"
The evidence wasn't there, which was why these allegations went nowhere, these women were disbelieved by those in the legal system.
 
The fact of the matter is Hillary is on record that woman who make accusations deserve the right to be believed yet she actively worked to discredit women who accused her husband. That is why her word rings hollow on anything she might say regarding woman's rights.
Yes and she also on record for saying the following (which those of your ilk never mention):

Jake Tapper @jaketapper

.@HillaryClinton response: "Well, I would say that everyone should be believed at first until they are disbelieved based on evidence"
The evidence wasn't there, which was why these allegations went nowhere, these women were disbelieved by those in the legal system.
1) Love the "ilk" reference.

2) How many women need to come forward with marginal individual credibility before the pattern starts to build up collectively? Do things change when the only one with concrete DNA evidence turns out to be telling the truth and shows that the Clintons were demonstrably lying?

 
The fact of the matter is Hillary is on record that woman who make accusations deserve the right to be believed yet she actively worked to discredit women who accused her husband. That is why her word rings hollow on anything she might say regarding woman's rights.
Yes and she also on record for saying the following (which those of your ilk never mention):

Jake Tapper @jaketapper

.@HillaryClinton response: "Well, I would say that everyone should be believed at first until they are disbelieved based on evidence"
The evidence wasn't there, which was why these allegations went nowhere, these women were disbelieved by those in the legal system.
1) Love the "ilk" reference.

2) How many women need to come forward with marginal individual credibility before the pattern starts to build up collectively? Do things change when the only one with concrete DNA evidence turns out to be telling the truth and shows that the Clintons were demonstrably lying?
Hillary is usually quoted out of context or all of the related context is omitted. If the ilk fits, wear it.

A lot of these accusers were financed by those who had an agenda with taking down the Clintons. It was all smoke and no fire with the exception of the blue dress and Monica has never said she was a victim or was sexually harassed and has always been adamant that the affair was completely consensual.

 
A lot of these accusers were financed by those who had an agenda with taking down the Clintons. It was all smoke and no fire with the exception of the blue dress and Monica has never said she was a victim or was sexually harassed and has always been adamant that the affair was completely consensual.
Yes, I understand that. In the one he-said-she-said instance out of all the Clinton affairs, the one with irrefutable proof shows that the Clintons were the ones who were lying. And by the standards of the time and certainly by today's standards, this was clear-cut sexual harassment due to the power differential.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top