Unless they are entitled and think that because of their fame, their behavior will be tolerated. That doesn't sound like AB at all, right?
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WR Antonio Brown, FA (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Casting Couch
- Start date
rugcleaner
Footballguy
Jesus, lock this thread this stopped being football discussion 20 pages ago.
You can't suspend every NFL player who has been accused of something. If that were the case, each team would be playing 5 on 5. If this is the logic, what about Peyton Manning and his situation with a trainer? Should he have been suspended when that story came out?
No, you don't suspend every player that has been accused of something. But you do investigate those accusations if they're deemed credible.
If that investigation reveals a violation of the league's personal conduct policy, then you discipline that player in accordance with the policy's rules.
Dondante
Footballguy
100%. At minimum put it in the politics forum where it can bask in its own toxicity like the rest of those threads.
Dizzy
Footballguy
Almost every player thread goes this route when extracurricular activities hit the headlines. Should be split threads in all these cases...
<insert name here> - Football News
<insert name here> - Moral Compass, or Court of Public Opinion, or Legal Experts Only, etc.
wgoldsph
Footballguy
What I think is great about the moralizing here is that one person will use a part of the case as a negative and then another person will use the same part and see it as a positive.
"he called her a whore, obviously it was rape"
"he called her a whore, obviously it was a consensual relationship for gone bad"
PLAY BALL!
"he called her a whore, obviously it was rape"
"he called her a whore, obviously it was a consensual relationship for gone bad"
PLAY BALL!
shadyridr
Footballguy
Tommy Collins
Footballguy
Well, unless you've been in the perp's shoes in this scenario you aren't qualified to make this statement. You look at it in black and white: if he talked openly about it, it was obviously consensual. But you assume rational, logical thought. You aren't accounting for the power and dominance that plays a role in these types of situations.
It reminds me of when I was on jury duty on a welfare fraud case. The defendant's lawyer was picking the jury based on his argument of: if my client didn't hide that he received welfare benefits, that proves he didn't intentionally defraud the county. Would you agree?
Just because they flaunt it doesn't prove intent.
Steeler
Footballguy
This is really a great idea. I don't want to wade through all this discussion to see if there is actual news about his availability on Sunday.
zoonation
Footballguy
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
Football Jones
Footballguy
The chance AB gets out of this are pretty slim (& Slim left town). Evidently, she has some aces up her sleeve. Her attorney is well-respected & would never get involved in this circus unless it was a virtual slam dunk.
That said, if I were the Pats, you've already signed AB. It doesn't make sense to backtrack now. Just play dumb, play him until he's exempt/suspended or evidence is revealed that makes cutting him a no-brainer.
In other words, I'd do EXACTLY what the Pats are doing now.
That said, if I were the Pats, you've already signed AB. It doesn't make sense to backtrack now. Just play dumb, play him until he's exempt/suspended or evidence is revealed that makes cutting him a no-brainer.
In other words, I'd do EXACTLY what the Pats are doing now.
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apalmer
Footballguy
Now picture that endzone celebration involving his clenched fist moving from his upper thigh to his chest twice before the hand explodes open. That would be totally in character for him.
Run It Up
Footballguy
There has been plenty of stuff from ABs camp the last two days that should have people piping down until this is settled. It looks very questionable and it would be enormously inappropriate to form a position off of what we know, its pretty hard to read the texts, see the videos, hear the personal accounts and come to the conclusion that shes telling the truth, but we also should not assume shes lying.
The only opinions ive formed so far are that this woman seems so much less credible than Reeks fiance who turned out to be lying and that this would be a horrible precedent to start placing players on the exempt list with such little information.
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I hate NE as much as the next guy but come on - at this stage it’s way too early to be that definitive on this. And it’s hardly a NE-specific phenomenon even if the allegations have merit.
rockaction
Footballguy
They did it with Elliott. It seems that the biggest concern the NFL has here is the upcoming negotiations in collective bargaining about the procedures regarding accusations such as these. They'll likely wait until they have her side and a ruling by those witnessing the extrajudicial hearing, but they have overruled their own administrators/observers as early as the Zeke case, so who knows?
This thread is all baseless speculation other than certain things that can be explained by practicing lawyers.
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Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
Honestly, I understand NE not taking action a heck of a lot more than the league not taking action. The commissioner exempt list was created for this exact situation...
Someone quickly develops a really bad stink that puts the perception of the shield at risk... Put him on the exempt list while things shake out. He still gets paid, etc. Let's just wait and see.
Dismattle
Footballguy
IF true Not trying to imply it isn't Boy they have this meeting early next week and then decide to place the player on the list? But I dunno all it could take is breaking down if/when she intends to file a report (Ben had to serve four in a somewhat similar allegation)
rockaction
Footballguy
The problem with that is that by suspending him, the NFL gives authoritative credence to her claims and sets precedent. I'm actually against the personal exempt list for this very reason. It creates an imprimatur of authority that leaves an aura of stink around the player, around the situation. The NFL as an investigative body causes so many conflicts of interest and leaves things that are so undesirable in its wake that giving Goodell that authority was a mess in the first place.
Bad all around. But if ever there was a reason for the CBA to have this in place (which is the root of the problem), a player like Antonio Brown and the circus that follows him certainly is it.
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rockaction
Footballguy
We search for procedural clear and bright lines in instances like these, and the NFL really has an ad hoc, per-case way of meting out justice that seems ripe for unjust effects depending on one's feelings regarding the matter at hand, and that's not a good thing.
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SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
:sigh:
we keep rehashing the same point. you keep inferring lack of consent. you keep inferring what his intentions were. you keep taking the position that absence of proof of innocence is guilt. this is judgement. perhaps your judgement will eventually be shown to be correct. but why the rush, when there are few facts available, only inferences. sexual assault is a tragedy. false claims, money grabs, and rushing to judge others are also tragedies. lets wait for the truth to come out...or at least some scraps of real facts.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Roethlisberger had pretty much the same situation happen as AB. A woman served him with a civil suit in 2009 over an incident in 2008 which she deemed as a sexual assault. From what I remember, it was reported to authorities, they investigated, but there was not enough evidence to file charges. The case was settled with a NDA in 2011.
In 2010, Roethlisberger was accused of raping a woman in a bar bathroom. A police report was filed, an investigation was launched, and the local DA ultimately did not find enough evidence to go after Big Ben because he didn't think he could win the case.
While all that went on, the league did not place him on the exempt list and did not suspend him after either incident (not initially). After the police investigation of the second incident was concluded, Goodell suspended Roethlisberger for the first six games of the 2010 season (which was later reduced to four games).
The point being, after the first civil complaint was filed in July of 2009, the league did nothing and Ben played the entire 2009 season. Only after the second incident did they act and both of them involved formal complaints and police investigations.
Ray Barboni
Footballguy
... so you’re saying I should accept the trade offer I just got for AB?
Is the Shady McCoy situations from the past any inkling in how the league will react?
There wasnt any rape or sexual misconduct involved ... but there was a cop beat down, and then a strange break in with a bludgeoned girlfriend pressing charges.
no commish exemption
Dismattle
Footballguy
@Anarchy99 One small deviation aside from one case involving separate woman on two different occasions could involve the NFL's view on changes (Survivors rights)
The term "sexual assault" means any nonconsensual sexual act prohibited by federal, state, or tribal law, including when a victim lacks capacity to consent.
Believe that pretty much makes it somewhat open and shut... A woman is at a club has a few drinks which are followed by sexual relations. The law of the land which the NFL may want to consider as somewhat important dictates that punishment should ensue in some form (NFL certainly seems to have embraced punishment for physical abuse)
(Basically, the drinks makes it somewhat similar) However, it does appear that the NFL does not seem to care that the incident involved alcohol Maybe it is a 6-week suspension at a later date?
The term "sexual assault" means any nonconsensual sexual act prohibited by federal, state, or tribal law, including when a victim lacks capacity to consent.
Believe that pretty much makes it somewhat open and shut... A woman is at a club has a few drinks which are followed by sexual relations. The law of the land which the NFL may want to consider as somewhat important dictates that punishment should ensue in some form (NFL certainly seems to have embraced punishment for physical abuse)
(Basically, the drinks makes it somewhat similar) However, it does appear that the NFL does not seem to care that the incident involved alcohol Maybe it is a 6-week suspension at a later date?
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I mentioned that like 20 pages back. People said apples and oranges. McCoy was in another state and denied any involvement. In Brown's case, he admitted to hooking up with her and in his mind had a relationship. So he can't argue he didn't do it because he was hundreds of miles away.
Another key difference is plenty of media sites are pretty much demanding that the league put him on the exempt list. That doesn't mean the league will, but if the league is all about protecting the shield, they could cave based on peer pressure.
A bunch of people are also thinking NE "will do the right thing" and either bench or release AB. IMO, that ship sailed days ago. If they didn't cut him as soon as the news broke, they were all in on keeping and playing him. The statement they posted pretty much outlined that . . . the league will be conducting an investigation and we will not discuss the matter. Translation: the ball is in the league's hand, we are proceeding all systems go.
Ray Barboni
Footballguy
......soooooo?
lol. As someone that seems to be much more informed on everything than I am, probably more than the casual FF player.
could you give your prediction on the AB outlook this season?
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Depends what the trade offer is. Post specifics and I can give you an opinion (others probably will as well).
Shutout
Footballguy
That's unfair. When Hernandez did what he did, these boards were all about "what's going on?" And "let's see what happens" and the Patriots straight up released him in like a few hours.
The Patriots don't lack a moral compass. They don't over react and create uneccessary drama. They play the hand that's available to them. They are always under such a public eye that every little thing gets talked about all the time but there are players and owners out there not living a pristine and untarnished life.
People just love to hate them because of their success but I seriously doubt they are any more worse than other teams. Geez, Gregg Williams put bounties out on people and we get to see him still hanging around. That's a real, proven offense. I'm sure if the due process shows Brown is at fault the Patriots will kick him to the curb in a minute.
Ray Barboni
Footballguy
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I'm surprised people can't admit at least a few things that make you think this is very personal and the woman feels she was violated.
-These texts indicate Brown admitting to committing a sexual act of some kind when this female trainer was sleeping. I've never done anything like that in my entire life. I've woken a female up from being sound asleep to try and check her temperature but never would most men think doing what he is accused of doing is a totally OK thing. Is this really that hard for people to not bicker back and forth on semantics? I have no idea what a jury is going to do here but I certainly think based on the $ amount which is far from a money grab or absurd amount that I would want to read and hear all the facts of the case. It sounds believable but everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Does that justify AB being put on Commish list and receive his money but not play? That part I understand the debate but it's painful to watch grown men argue about the definition of sexual assault in 2019, that's probably why we are having al these MT Moments in the media.
I'm not ripping any individuals but the vibe seems weird when things sound fishy at the least. I have not bothered to read AB's Bio but is he supposed to be married with kids? i know I've seen him holding children that I assumed were his...there has to be some fallout going on or already transpired, maybe we are just hearing about it because AB refused to pay up.
-These texts indicate Brown admitting to committing a sexual act of some kind when this female trainer was sleeping. I've never done anything like that in my entire life. I've woken a female up from being sound asleep to try and check her temperature but never would most men think doing what he is accused of doing is a totally OK thing. Is this really that hard for people to not bicker back and forth on semantics? I have no idea what a jury is going to do here but I certainly think based on the $ amount which is far from a money grab or absurd amount that I would want to read and hear all the facts of the case. It sounds believable but everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Does that justify AB being put on Commish list and receive his money but not play? That part I understand the debate but it's painful to watch grown men argue about the definition of sexual assault in 2019, that's probably why we are having al these MT Moments in the media.
I'm not ripping any individuals but the vibe seems weird when things sound fishy at the least. I have not bothered to read AB's Bio but is he supposed to be married with kids? i know I've seen him holding children that I assumed were his...there has to be some fallout going on or already transpired, maybe we are just hearing about it because AB refused to pay up.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
Seriously?
I swear I saw a video of him saying something to the effect of "Why would I call him a cracker? My wife is white."
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Oh well in that case...
I was just curious. I don't wish ill will on folks but I was taken aback when I started reading more of the details and I think this woman deserves at least to get an opportunity to state her case in this civil suit. Brown is not being pursued by any police units that we know about except for one...J. EdgarRoger Goodell is hot on the trail and I'm sure if there is anything not right that he will get to the bottom of it.
Thanks 99, appreciate the info.
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Steeler
Footballguy
I could see him not getting much playing time and looks this week. OTOH, I could see him having a few packages of plays where he is featured on a few series or something like that. They may want to get him going in his first game with the team.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
As a basis for comparison, last year Josh Gordon sat the first game he was eligible to play for NE. In his first game action with the team (also against MIA), he saw 2 targets, caught both passes, accumulated 32 yards, and did not find the end zone. Also noteworthy was that Edelman was suspended for that game (meaning they needed a receiver to step up).
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Has anyone mentioned he's still not wearing the required helmet?
Antonio Brown Isn’t Wearing His New Helmet In First Patriots Practice &nbsp;Read more at: https://nesn.com/2019/09/antonio-brown-isnt-wearing-his-new-helmet-in-first-patriots-practice/
Antonio Brown Isn’t Wearing His New Helmet In First Patriots Practice &nbsp;Read more at: https://nesn.com/2019/09/antonio-brown-isnt-wearing-his-new-helmet-in-first-patriots-practice/
Dizzy
Footballguy
I'm sure he's fine with any old (sorry, new?) helmet now that he's out of Oakland. The helmet was part of Phase II: make 'em all think you're crazy.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
This is false.Ministry of Pain said:
A censored version of the relevant portion of two text messages follows:
1. "I [censored] on your back !slept with u n bed !"
2. "...me n [name redacted] about this [censored act]..."
Perhaps there are other messages, but neither of these is an admission of something being done "when this female trainer was sleeping".
The two parties have different positions on whether there was a consentual relationship.
Everything else is inference, unless you have some other information I do not?
HULLOBUDMAN
Footballguy
https://twitter.com/dpshow/status/1172507112926326784
Anyone know what this was based on? Fact or speculation or prior to week 2 game?
Anyone know what this was based on? Fact or speculation or prior to week 2 game?
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