Who are the players we refuse to give up on until it is too late? (1 Viewer)

[JohnnyU]

Who are the fantasy players that haven't lived up to expectations that we end up keeping until we can no longer get any meaningful value for? If you trade them while they still have value, even if they are a bust, it doesn't count.

I could go back 20 years, but won't. Here are a few of my recent personal favorites.

1) CEH (stuck with him in one league. Thank God I didn't take him over Taylor)
2) James Washington (boy, was I ever wrong about this guy)
3) Michael Carter (headed in that direction if not already there)
4) Darrell Henderson (oops!)

Soon to be on this list is probably Isaiah Spiller.

 

[Chaka]

Courtland Sutton seems to be moving in that direction, if not already there. But we're gonna keep him because Sean Payton.

ETA: LOL I swear I didn't see you bumped the Sutton thread before I posted in here.

 

[rockaction]

Unfortunately James Robinson appears to be no longer of meaningful value. Cordarrelle Patterson, too. I acquired those guys last year for a title run. OOPS!

I won, though.

 

[JohnnyU]

Unfortunately James Robinson appears to be no longer of meaningful value. Cordarrelle Patterson, too. I acquired those guys last year for a title run. OOPS!

I won, though.

At least with Robinson he was probably a waiver wire pickup initially for most people. They got FF value out of him for free.

 

[rockaction]

Soon to be on this list is probably Isaiah Spiller.

Saw this and was embarrassed to admit I drafted him 2.02 and have since turned him into Ryan Tannehill and 30 Z Bucks in Zealots. That's bottom of the barrel. He's still apparently at 3rd round value on KTC, which is nuts. Get out now.

 

[rockaction]

They got FF value out of him for free.

I got that very first year out of him for a buck and shipped him off for a first round pick, who became Javonte who became Breece, so I'm happy. But I reacquired him after his first game with the Jets for Skyy Moore, so the jury's still way out on that.

I guess you can say given my last two posts, when a guy really flops, I sell. Spiller couldn't beat out Josh Kelley and looked too slow for the NFL by the eye test. Moore's *** is too big and his arms are too short to be a WR. At least that's what I saw. They just went out and got Toney and James, which tells us a lot about how KC views Moore.

He could still blow up, and it was a bad, bad trade, but I'd rather get out on these guys than be stuck holding the bag.

 

[JohnnyU]

Soon to be on this list is probably Isaiah Spiller.

Saw this and was embarrassed to admit I drafted him 2.02 and have since turned him into Ryan Tannehill and 30 Z Bucks in Zealots. That's bottom of the barrel. He's still apparently at 3rd round value on KTC, which is nuts. Get out now.

His value has already tanked to where you might as well hold and see what happens.

 

[JohnnyU]

Who are the fantasy players that haven't lived up to expectations that we end up keeping until we can no longer get any meaningful value for? If you trade them while they still have value, even if they are a bust, it doesn't count.

I could go back 20 years, but won't. Here are a few of my recent personal favorites.

1) CEH (stuck with him in one league. Thank God I didn't take him over Taylor)
2) James Washington (boy, was I ever wrong about this guy)
3) Michael Carter (headed in that direction if not already there)
4) Darrell Henderson (oops!)

Soon to be on this list is probably Isaiah Spiller.

If he doesn't do something this year Elijah Moore will be on the doorstep of this list. Well, maybe not, but his value will be non-existent if it happens.

 

[rockaction]

Zamir White's value went to toast, too. He was going anywhere from really late second to fourth with optimism about taking over last year, even, when McDaniels started opening his mouth and made Jacobs start the first preseason game. But after declining Jacobs's option, it was supposed to maybe be White taking over. Well, Jacobs nailed every nail in that coffin.

 

[JohnnyU]

Zamir White's value went to toast, too. He was going anywhere from really late second to fourth with optimism about taking over last year, even, when McDaniels started opening his mouth and made Jacobs start the first preseason game. But after declining Jacobs's option, it was supposed to maybe be White taking over. Well, Jacobs nailed every nail in that coffin.

Only the blind thought White was anything (no offense). He didn't have a good draft profile coming into the NFL draft and he's had like 20 ACL tears I believe.

 

[sushinsky4tsar]

I held on to the corpse of Kerryon well past expiration. I currently have Henderson on roster. Figured I would keep him for the offseason just to see if anyone interesting scooped him up for depth, but doesn't look like it. He'll be dumped prior to my August draft. I still don't get what happened with this one. Didn't seem to have any major injury. Not a world-beater, but fully expected him to find a contributor role somewhere after the Rams. I think something isn't right between the ears.

 

[rockaction]

Only the blind thought White was anything (no offense)

I passed on White for sure. The hype confused me. I thought he was DOA.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

• Mattison is on the precipice. If Cook isn’t traded/released, or if he is, but Mattison doesn’t establish as “the big half” of a committee, his window of opportunity will rapidly be closing. For now he’s a hold, but an inflection point is approaching.

• if I had any Mac Jones shares I’d be cutting bait left & right. There’s trouble brewing in NE & it feels like it actually might be Zappe. And I’m not sure Jones has the upside for true FF relevance. This is a SF nomination, BTW

• Pacheco is a good sell. Perception >>> reality, and IMO the bottom falls out on his value this year when the larger community starts to figure out that he’s unlikely to be more than an 8-14 point per week guy with a low ceiling.

• Ronald Jones is still on way, way too many rosters. He’s done.

 

[sushinsky4tsar]

Only the blind thought White was anything (no offense)

I passed on White for sure. The hype confused me. I thought he was DOA.

Depends on roster size. Drafted him 3.11 without many expectations. I'm still holding because being stuck behind Jacobs isn't a nail in the coffin in 24-man dynasty. One injury away from carries has value, but I'm kind of rooting for them to draft someone else decent so I can free up the roster spot.

The frustrating thing on Zamir, is that I'm getting nothing from Raiders beat writers on why he can't get on the field for 4 to 6 carries a game. The only analyst who seems to still mention him at all is Waldman and he still likes him to come in and do a lot of things Jacobs does if he goes down. As long as there's any possibility of Zamir leading the Raiders in carries in the event of a Jacobs injury, I have to hold.

 

[eighsse2]

Swift.

 

[JohnnyU]

Only the blind thought White was anything (no offense)

I passed on White for sure. The hype confused me. I thought he was DOA.

Depends on roster size. Drafted him 3.11 without many expectations. I'm still holding because being stuck behind Jacobs isn't a nail in the coffin in 24-man dynasty. One injury away from carries has value, but I'm kind of rooting for them to draft someone else decent so I can free up the roster spot.

The frustrating thing on Zamir, is that I'm getting nothing from Raiders beat writers on why he can't get on the field for 4 to 6 carries a game. The only analyst who seems to still mention him at all is Waldman and he still likes him to come in and do a lot of things Jacobs does if he goes down. As long as there's any possibility of Zamir leading the Raiders in carries in the event of a Jacobs injury, I have to hold.

I know no one would offer it, but if I had him (I don’t) and someone offered any 2nd, I’d probably tear my ACL running to hit accept. I’d probably stub my toe running to accept a 3rd.

 

[JohnnyU]

Swift.

Good one.

 

[efactor]

16 team, shallow roster league, I have been stubborn about holding Nico Collins. Had a couple offers from rebuilding teams for late 2nds which I probably should have taken but want to give him another year. Size and pretty good speed intrigue me.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Swift.

I was close to suggesting him, but I think his value holds for 1 more year. Might even be a dead cat bounce if he manages to miraculously stay healthy. He’s still very young, also.

 

[efactor]

Swift.

Yeah, that would be a tough one. Raw talent and great situation. I was trying to get him last year and thankfully my offers were rejected.

 

[JohnnyU]

16 team, shallow roster league, I have been stubborn about holding Nico Collins. Had a couple offers from rebuilding teams for late 2nds which I probably should have taken but want to give him another year. Size and pretty good speed intrigue me.

Probably my ignorance, but I’ve never looked at him as someone with much value to begin with. A 2nd is a decent offer.

 

[efactor]

Swift.

I was close to suggesting him, but I think his value holds for 1 more year. Might even be a dead cat bounce if he manages to miraculously stay healthy. He’s still very young, also.

But now Montgomery is there. While he’s hardly exciting, Montgomery is better as a runner than Jamaal and a much better receiver so that will cut into Swifts potential production as well. Even if healthy, it’s a full fledge time share at best for him.

 

[efactor]

16 team, shallow roster league, I have been stubborn about holding Nico Collins. Had a couple offers from rebuilding teams for late 2nds which I probably should have taken but want to give him another year. Size and pretty good speed intrigue me.

Probably my ignorance, but I’ve never looked at him as someone with much value to begin with. A 2nd is a decent offer.

He had a couple splash plays as a rookie that I happened to be watching and looked really smooth for a big guy, which contributed to my stubbornness to move him. 3rd round pick with size and speed. But yeah, I should have taken the deal probably.

 

[JohnnyU]

Swift.

I was close to suggesting him, but I think his value holds for 1 more year. Might even be a dead cat bounce if he manages to miraculously stay healthy. He’s still very young, also.

But now Montgomery is there. While he’s hardly exciting, Montgomery is better as a runner than Jamaal and a much better receiver so that will cut into Swifts potential production as well. Even if healthy, it’s a full fledge time share at best for him.

Only a Swift owner would argue with that.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Swift.

I was close to suggesting him, but I think his value holds for 1 more year. Might even be a dead cat bounce if he manages to miraculously stay healthy. He’s still very young, also.

But now Montgomery is there. While he’s hardly exciting, Montgomery is better as a runner than Jamaal and a much better receiver so that will cut into Swifts potential production as well. Even if healthy, it’s a full fledge time share at best for him.

Don’t disagree personally, but community-wise Swift still has a lot of believers. I know @menobrown is one.

I feel like as long as he’s healthy this year his value will hold for at least another.

 

[JohnnyU]

Swift.

I was close to suggesting him, but I think his value holds for 1 more year. Might even be a dead cat bounce if he manages to miraculously stay healthy. He’s still very young, also.

But now Montgomery is there. While he’s hardly exciting, Montgomery is better as a runner than Jamaal and a much better receiver so that will cut into Swifts potential production as well. Even if healthy, it’s a full fledge time share at best for him.

Don’t disagree personally, but community-wise Swift still has a lot of believers. I know @menobrown is one.

I feel like as long as he’s healthy this year his value will hold for at least another.

Given Montgomery will be the starter, what is the Swift ceiling if he remains healthy?

 

[foxco]

In 1 dynasty league I'm still holding:

Kenny Golladay
AROB
Devante Parker

Championship

 

[efactor]

Swift.

I was close to suggesting him, but I think his value holds for 1 more year. Might even be a dead cat bounce if he manages to miraculously stay healthy. He’s still very young, also.

But now Montgomery is there. While he’s hardly exciting, Montgomery is better as a runner than Jamaal and a much better receiver so that will cut into Swifts potential production as well. Even if healthy, it’s a full fledge time share at best for him.

Don’t disagree personally, but community-wise Swift still has a lot of believers. I know @menobrown is one.

I feel like as long as he’s healthy this year his value will hold for at least another.

The raw talent is not in question. The situation is great running behind a really good OL. My other concern beyond Montgomery is the usage we saw for Swift when he was actually healthy at the end of the year. Very limited. Almost like they know his risk of injury is high

 

[efactor]

In 1 dynasty league I'm still holding:

Kenny Golladay
AROB
Devante Parker

Championship

Oh Jesus. That’s some serious relationship issues. Lol

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Given Montgomery will be the starter, what is the Swift ceiling if he remains healthy?

I’m not sure that’s a given, but he certainly profiles more as a between the tackles pounder.

For PPR leagues I expect a healthy Swift to carry plenty of value - again, health dependent.

Like Mattison, there could be a significant inflection point coming if he can’t stay healthy yet again.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

In 1 dynasty league I'm still holding:

Kenny Golladay
AROB
Devante Parker

Championship

Codependency is treatable my friend.

 

[JohnnyU]

Given Montgomery will be the starter, what is the Swift ceiling if he remains healthy?

I’m not sure that’s a given, but he certainly profiles more as a between the tackles pounder.

For PPR leagues I expect a healthy Swift to carry plenty of value - again, health dependent.

Like Mattison, there could be a significant inflection point coming if he can’t stay healthy yet again.

I am.

 

[jm192]

I was in the CEH Boat myself.

ALSO

1. Tatum Bell--Broncos RB with high draft capital seemed too easy. It apparently was
2. Ashley Lelie--I DOMINATED with him on NFL Fever for the XBOX. 1st round draft pick, so obviously the NFL knew he was good too. 1 Good season, but I had him in EVERY SINGLE LEAGUE.
3. Laurence Maroney--I'm still fairly young and don't have the most in depth "process." 1st round RB to a Brady offense seemed like a slam dunk. Was still wasting draft capital on him 3 or 4 years in.
4. Braylon Edwards. I started playing in 2003. He was my first "guy" coming out of college. That 3rd year was so absurd, I basically proved that I should be an NFL GM. But I kept drafting him for years after despite the poor production.

5. McFadden. Another of my "guys" coming out of college. That crap about running too upright doesn't mean anything. He won't be injured every season. Oops. Kept getting him at a discount the next year, though.

I'll think of more and come back.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Swift.

I was close to suggesting him, but I think his value holds for 1 more year. Might even be a dead cat bounce if he manages to miraculously stay healthy. He’s still very young, also.

But now Montgomery is there. While he’s hardly exciting, Montgomery is better as a runner than Jamaal and a much better receiver so that will cut into Swifts potential production as well. Even if healthy, it’s a full fledge time share at best for him.

Don’t disagree personally, but community-wise Swift still has a lot of believers. I know @menobrown is one.

I feel like as long as he’s healthy this year his value will hold for at least another.

Isn't that what this thread is about though? Guys that keep on not producing, and the community keeps on making excuses for them year after year and holding his value up in spite of it?

I think a lot of the players mentioned in this thread don't really fit the OP, but Swift seems like the poster-boy of guys still valued most likely to end up that way. Kadarius Toney (who would likely still fetch an early 2nd despite having fewer than 600 yards receiving TOTAL in 3 years) is another.

The guys @foxco listed (ARob, Parker, Golladay) are great examples of guys that have completed the journey as well, that people made excuses for, for YEARS as their value held up while their production lagged it badly.

 

[JohnnyU]

I was in the CEH Boat myself.

ALSO

1. Tatum Bell--Broncos RB with high draft capital seemed too easy. It apparently was
2. Ashley Lelie--I DOMINATED with him on NFL Fever for the XBOX. 1st round draft pick, so obviously the NFL knew he was good too. 1 Good season, but I had him in EVERY SINGLE LEAGUE.
3. Laurence Maroney--I'm still fairly young and don't have the most in depth "process." 1st round RB to a Brady offense seemed like a slam dunk. Was still wasting draft capital on him 3 or 4 years in.
4. Braylon Edwards. I started playing in 2003. He was my first "guy" coming out of college. That 3rd year was so absurd, I basically proved that I should be an NFL GM. But I kept drafting him for years after despite the poor production.

5. McFadden. Another of my "guys" coming out of college. That crap about running too upright doesn't mean anything. He won't be injured every season. Oops. Kept getting him at a discount the next year, though.

I'll think of more and come back.

Great memories………..not.

Great posting

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Isn't that what this thread is about though? Guys that keep on not producing, and the community keeps on making excuses for them year after year and holding his value up in spite of it?

Yes, but Swift is still very young, and there’s a non-zero chance that shareholders patience will eventually pay off - if not in CHI, then on his next stop.

So he still technically qualifies as a “buy low” rather than a “roster clogger”. He is just 24

I know there’s pessimism about his possible eventual outcome - some have left him for dead. But age/talent-wise he still has potential.

 

[JohnnyU]

Isn't that what this thread is about though? Guys that keep on not producing, and the community keeps on making excuses for them year after year and holding his value up in spite of it?

Yes, but Swift is still very young, and there’s a non-zero chance that shareholders patience will eventually pay off - if not in CHI, then on his next stop.

So he still technically qualifies as a “buy low” rather than a “roster clogger”. He is just 24

I know there’s pessimism about his possible eventual outcome - some have left him for dead. But age/talent-wise he still has potential.

Oh, but he desperately wants on this list. He couldn’t beat out Williams and now he’s facing a better player in Montgomery. Let’s just say he’s in his undergraduate studies of frustration and is interning for this list for when he gets his frustration degree.

 

[menobrown]

Swift.

I was close to suggesting him, but I think his value holds for 1 more year. Might even be a dead cat bounce if he manages to miraculously stay healthy. He’s still very young, also.

But now Montgomery is there. While he’s hardly exciting, Montgomery is better as a runner than Jamaal and a much better receiver so that will cut into Swifts potential production as well. Even if healthy, it’s a full fledge time share at best for him.

Don’t disagree personally, but community-wise Swift still has a lot of believers. I know @menobrown is one.

I feel like as long as he’s healthy this year his value will hold for at least another.

Given Montgomery will be the starter, what is the Swift ceiling if he remains healthy?

Montgomery likely handles more carries but that does not mean a whole lot. As @Hot Sauce Guy indicated I remain fairly high on Swift but it's not just me. Sure his value has dropped but his ADP right now in FFPC redrafts for this month is a little higher then Montgomery's so saying Monty is the starter does not mean much to me.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Let’s just saying he’s in his undergraduate studies of frustration and is interning for this list for when he gets his frustration degree

Fair.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

that doe snot

That doe snot indeed.

 

[menobrown]

Isn't that what this thread is about though? Guys that keep on not producing, and the community keeps on making excuses for them year after year and holding his value up in spite of it?

Swift has averaged about 15 points a game in his career while playing 80% of available games. So that bolded part is not him.

 

[Snoopy]

Penny

 

[JohnnyU]

Swift.

I was close to suggesting him, but I think his value holds for 1 more year. Might even be a dead cat bounce if he manages to miraculously stay healthy. He’s still very young, also.

But now Montgomery is there. While he’s hardly exciting, Montgomery is better as a runner than Jamaal and a much better receiver so that will cut into Swifts potential production as well. Even if healthy, it’s a full fledge time share at best for him.

Don’t disagree personally, but community-wise Swift still has a lot of believers. I know @menobrown is one.

I feel like as long as he’s healthy this year his value will hold for at least another.

Given Montgomery will be the starter, what is the Swift ceiling if he remains healthy?

Montgomery likely handles more carries but that does not mean a whole lot. As @Hot Sauce Guy indicated I remain fairly high on Swift but it's not just me. Sure his value has dropped but his ADP right now in FFPC redrafts for this month is a little higher then Montgomery's so saying Monty is the starter does not mean much to me.

What it does mean is he’s no better off than he was with Williams and that isn’t saying much.

 

[menobrown]

The guy for me right now that no one likes that I refuse to give up on is Kareem Hunt.

 

[JohnnyU]

The guy for me right now that no one likes that I refuse to give up on is Kareem Hunt.

I know, I have him in a couple of leagues. I suppose we can’t get the Kansas City memories out of our heads. Perhaps he isn’t any good anymore.

 

[menobrown]

Swift.

I was close to suggesting him, but I think his value holds for 1 more year. Might even be a dead cat bounce if he manages to miraculously stay healthy. He’s still very young, also.

But now Montgomery is there. While he’s hardly exciting, Montgomery is better as a runner than Jamaal and a much better receiver so that will cut into Swifts potential production as well. Even if healthy, it’s a full fledge time share at best for him.

Don’t disagree personally, but community-wise Swift still has a lot of believers. I know @menobrown is one.

I feel like as long as he’s healthy this year his value will hold for at least another.

Given Montgomery will be the starter, what is the Swift ceiling if he remains healthy?

Montgomery likely handles more carries but that does not mean a whole lot. As @Hot Sauce Guy indicated I remain fairly high on Swift but it's not just me. Sure his value has dropped but his ADP right now in FFPC redrafts for this month is a little higher then Montgomery's so saying Monty is the starter does not mean much to me.

What it does mean is he’s no better off than he was with Williams and that isn’t saying much.

Sigh.

Again he averages almost 15 fantasy points a game. That's right in RB12 range last year. His career low in his career is 13.5, which was last year and he was almost dead tied with Kenneth Walker.


This notion he does not produce for fantasy is one of the more bogus opinion's I've seen in years. I mean guys, it's math, it's right in front of you to see.

 

[JohnnyU]

Swift.

I was close to suggesting him, but I think his value holds for 1 more year. Might even be a dead cat bounce if he manages to miraculously stay healthy. He’s still very young, also.

But now Montgomery is there. While he’s hardly exciting, Montgomery is better as a runner than Jamaal and a much better receiver so that will cut into Swifts potential production as well. Even if healthy, it’s a full fledge time share at best for him.

Don’t disagree personally, but community-wise Swift still has a lot of believers. I know @menobrown is one.

I feel like as long as he’s healthy this year his value will hold for at least another.

Given Montgomery will be the starter, what is the Swift ceiling if he remains healthy?

Montgomery likely handles more carries but that does not mean a whole lot. As @Hot Sauce Guy indicated I remain fairly high on Swift but it's not just me. Sure his value has dropped but his ADP right now in FFPC redrafts for this month is a little higher then Montgomery's so saying Monty is the starter does not mean much to me.

What it does mean is he’s no better off than he was with Williams and that isn’t saying much.

Sigh.

Again he averages almost 15 fantasy points a game. That's right in RB12 range last year. His career low in his career is 13.5, which was last year and he was almost dead tied with Kenneth Walker.


This notion he does not produce for fantasy is one of the more bogus opinion's I've seen in years. I mean guys, it's math, it's right in front of you to see.

With me it isn’t his average ppg, it’s his inability to live up to his hype year after year and take control of a backfield, even in RBBC. In 2023 nothing changes as far as I can see.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

The guy for me right now that no one likes that I refuse to give up on is Kareem Hunt.

I know, I have him in a couple of leagues. I suppose we can’t get the Kansas City memories out of our heads. Perhaps he isn’t any good anymore.

He will expire on many rosters

 

[menobrown]

Swift.

I was close to suggesting him, but I think his value holds for 1 more year. Might even be a dead cat bounce if he manages to miraculously stay healthy. He’s still very young, also.

But now Montgomery is there. While he’s hardly exciting, Montgomery is better as a runner than Jamaal and a much better receiver so that will cut into Swifts potential production as well. Even if healthy, it’s a full fledge time share at best for him.

Don’t disagree personally, but community-wise Swift still has a lot of believers. I know @menobrown is one.

I feel like as long as he’s healthy this year his value will hold for at least another.

Given Montgomery will be the starter, what is the Swift ceiling if he remains healthy?

Montgomery likely handles more carries but that does not mean a whole lot. As @Hot Sauce Guy indicated I remain fairly high on Swift but it's not just me. Sure his value has dropped but his ADP right now in FFPC redrafts for this month is a little higher then Montgomery's so saying Monty is the starter does not mean much to me.

What it does mean is he’s no better off than he was with Williams and that isn’t saying much.

Sigh.

Again he averages almost 15 fantasy points a game. That's right in RB12 range last year. His career low in his career is 13.5, which was last year and he was almost dead tied with Kenneth Walker.


This notion he does not produce for fantasy is one of the more bogus opinion's I've seen in years. I mean guys, it's math, it's right in front of you to see.

With me it isn’t his average ppg, it’s his inability to live up to his hype year after year and take control of a backfield, even in RBBC. In 2023 nothing changes as far as I can see.

That is almost everything to me with the only other thing I care about is can he have huge games and he can.

 

[eighsse2]

Too many posts to choose which one to quote, but in response to the whole Swift stuff. Yeah, I was a little hesitant to bring him up because I felt like the thread might be intended for guys who are an official case of too late. I still have hope in Swift, but I feel like my clinging could very likely be the process of joining this list in an official capacity.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The case for hope is: (1) There is a chance -- a  chance, okay -- that he may be healthy for a full season. Meaning missing a couple games at most, and not limited constantly. There is such a thing as random trends that don't guarantee a continuation. (2) If he in fact has a healthy season, he could gain some trust. "Hey, this guy is banging out 30/40 yard TD plays on a weekly basis, hasn't been hurt yet, and it's week 7. Maybe he really can do this running back thing? If he can, he'll help us more with 18-25 touches per game than he will with 6-10. I'm feeling lucky, let's go *shake and roll dice gesture*" The lack of usage everyone points to could be glued to his limitations.

 Pipe dream? Maybe. I see it as optimistic, probably on the side of too optimistic. But I'm sure you can see at least some narrow spectrum of the branching of possibilities in time where in 2028 I would look back and say, "wow, that was a fun ride, glad I didn't sell him for the #16 pick in 2023".