Stock Thread (4 Viewers)

[Bob Sacamano]

Why our country and its current leadership did not go full on Hydrogen Cell technology is beyond me.

Most likely the EV lobbying had deeper pockets.

Hydrogen Cell power.....filling stations infrastructure already in place...you just need to convert them to have hydrogen fuel available in addition to gasoline as we transition to that tech.

It made too much sense. But nope...we are going to push EV tech instead which has its own massive anti green issues.

Anyway....huge mistake imo.

And damn EV's are still overpriced.

I am far more likely to purchase a hybrid than a straight up EV.

I've owned a hybrid. I would never go back.

As for the rest, I don't care if it's electric, hydrogen, coffee grounds, or the tears of Cubs fans, so long as it jumps like House of Pain said so when I tap the accelerator, it's fun to drive, and I don't ever really have to maintain it. Continued HOV lane access would also be nice.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Why our country and its current leadership did not go full on Hydrogen Cell technology is beyond me.

Most likely the EV lobbying had deeper pockets.

Hydrogen Cell power.....filling stations infrastructure already in place...you just need to convert them to have hydrogen fuel available in addition to gasoline as we transition to that tech.

It made too much sense. But nope...we are going to push EV tech instead which has its own massive anti green issues.

Anyway....huge mistake imo.

And damn EV's are still overpriced.

I am far more likely to purchase a hybrid than a straight up EV.

If the bolded is a major issue then no way hydrogen is the answer as hydrogen would be a LOT more expensive for a LOT longer before it ever hit price parity.

A major reason EVs are even viable at all is because you can skirt the charging network 90% of the time and just charge at home. Filling a car with hydrogen is a LOT more expensive than charging an EV (either at a charging station or at home) and range anxiety would be 50x worse because your only option is to find a station. And, on top of that, expansion of refill stations would be significantly slower as it is WAY cheaper to build an EV charging station than it is to build a hydrogen refill station.

Isn't a powercell alone as expensive as an entire EV vehicle right now, or close to it?

I am no expert on this, but I looked into it a lot during the NKLA days and even if you could overcome the barrier to entry being significantly more difficult, it didn't seem like the advantages in the end game were necessarily even worth it either. It's a crazy inefficient gas, it's difficult to store and transport. Anecdotally I have a couple friends that work in the green energy sector and they're both pretty bearish on hydrogen.

 

[McBokonon]

Anybody have thoughts on the DIS BOD drama? Any shareholders vote with Peltz?

Peltz just lost. Shares down on the news but nothing crazy.

 

[General Malaise]

Silver on a nice little run lately. Feel like it's been trading around the low 20s forever, but if it can hold $25, I wonder if $30 is possible. The last time it held $30 it got as high as $49 but that was back in 2011.

I might take a little swing on AGQ to see if this move has legs.

@hooter311

Silver +3.2% today. $26.92.

LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[metoo]

Honestly surprised TSLA wasn’t down more today. Think we see $120 at some point.

$100

 

[Peggy]

Why our country and its current leadership did not go full on Hydrogen Cell technology is beyond me.

Most likely the EV lobbying had deeper pockets.

Hydrogen Cell power.....filling stations infrastructure already in place...you just need to convert them to have hydrogen fuel available in addition to gasoline as we transition to that tech.

It made too much sense. But nope...we are going to push EV tech instead which has its own massive anti green issues.

Anyway....huge mistake imo.

And damn EV's are still overpriced.

I am far more likely to purchase a hybrid than a straight up EV.

I was itching to reply even before reading your last sentence that we skipped right over hybrids. We didn't even push for what makes the most sense for transitioning.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Why our country and its current leadership did not go full on Hydrogen Cell technology is beyond me.

Most likely the EV lobbying had deeper pockets.

Hydrogen Cell power.....filling stations infrastructure already in place...you just need to convert them to have hydrogen fuel available in addition to gasoline as we transition to that tech.

It made too much sense. But nope...we are going to push EV tech instead which has its own massive anti green issues.

Anyway....huge mistake imo.

And damn EV's are still overpriced.

I am far more likely to purchase a hybrid than a straight up EV.

I was itching to reply even before reading your last sentence that we skipped right over hybrids. We didn't even push for what makes the most sense for transitioning.

It's amusing to me that we're lagging 20+ other countries in adoption and also #####ing that we're doing it too quickly.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

And yes, I recognize there are factors here that don't come into play in many of those countries. But Americans are also generally bad at adapting and dealing with change.

 

[General Malaise]

And yet I feel like the most common car I see on the roads right now are Teslas. They are everywhere but this is Oregon, so.....

 

[Bob Sacamano]

My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead, and that's the way I likes it!

The Simpsons (1989) - S06E18 Comedy clip with quote My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead, and that's the way I likes it! Yarn is the best search for video clips by quote. Find the exact moment in a TV show, movie, or music video you want to share. Easily move forward or backward to...

getyarn.io

 

[Ridgeback]

And yet I feel like the most common car I see on the roads right now are Teslas. They are everywhere but this is Oregon, so.....

And before that it was Prius...

 

[BassNBrew]

Why our country and its current leadership did not go full on Hydrogen Cell technology is beyond me.

Most likely the EV lobbying had deeper pockets.

Hydrogen Cell power.....filling stations infrastructure already in place...you just need to convert them to have hydrogen fuel available in addition to gasoline as we transition to that tech.

It made too much sense. But nope...we are going to push EV tech instead which has its own massive anti green issues.

Anyway....huge mistake imo.

And damn EV's are still overpriced.

I am far more likely to purchase a hybrid than a straight up EV.

I was itching to reply even before reading your last sentence that we skipped right over hybrids. We didn't even push for what makes the most sense for transitioning.

Personally I never understood how paying for a battery and then still adding in an ICE and tranny made sense. I mean it makes sense from a legacy car manufacturers standpoint because it keeps your service bays full.

 

[BassNBrew]

Tesla getting smoked. 1st Q deliveries way down, even lower than the most bearish estimates.

I honestly feel the demand for EV's was always overestimated. Too much "range/charging uncertainty" for many folks. So the people who really want them have them, and until those negatives are addressed, the rest of us will wait.

Range issues are way overblown. Personally I'm fine with people watching their B&W TVs while I enjoy my 4K QLED.

It's definitely not overblown, especially in the macro context of public perception and investing.

Range is a legit concern that won't go away until recharging is as easy/fast/thoughtless as getting gas. And it's not remotely close to that. Like it or not, until we can pull off nearly any exit and charge up in ten minutes and be on our way, it'll be an issue. The tv comparison is not valid here - upgrading to color did not change my tv watching habits one bit. Getting an EV and going on a long trip... now it's different, and I have to factor in A) where to recharge, because I can't assume nearly every exit has charging stations and B) how long I have to budget for it timewise. Those are massive roadblocks to full on mainstream acceptance, no matter how much current owners say they do just fine with it.

Although I don't own one, I'm on your side here. I truly want EV's to succeed, and I hope they solve this issue. And I think they will eventually. But until then, I see it as a not-great investment, mostly because EV stocks seem to be priced at a level that assumes mainstream acceptance right now.

https://supercharge.info/map They are everywhere. I had no problem traveling from Charlotte to New York and Charlotte to Jackson Mississippi.

In ten minutes you can add 130 miles, 200 if you spend 15 minutes.

I thought the TV was a valid comparison. My driving habits haven't changed. I just now have a vehicle that drives itself on the freeway, accelerates faster than a NASCAR, and is much safer to drive.

 

[BassNBrew]

Tesla getting smoked. 1st Q deliveries way down, even lower than the most bearish estimates.

I honestly feel the demand for EV's was always overestimated. Too much "range/charging uncertainty" for many folks. So the people who really want them have them, and until those negatives are addressed, the rest of us will wait.

Range issues are way overblown. Personally I'm fine with people watching their B&W TVs while I enjoy my 4K QLED.

It's definitely not overblown, especially in the macro context of public perception and investing.

Range is a legit concern that won't go away until recharging is as easy/fast/thoughtless as getting gas. And it's not remotely close to that. Like it or not, until we can pull off nearly any exit and charge up in ten minutes and be on our way, it'll be an issue. The tv comparison is not valid here - upgrading to color did not change my tv watching habits one bit. Getting an EV and going on a long trip... now it's different, and I have to factor in A) where to recharge, because I can't assume nearly every exit has charging stations and B) how long I have to budget for it timewise. Those are massive roadblocks to full on mainstream acceptance, no matter how much current owners say they do just fine with it.

Although I don't own one, I'm on your side here. I truly want EV's to succeed, and I hope they solve this issue. And I think they will eventually. But until then, I see it as a not-great investment, mostly because EV stocks seem to be priced at a level that assumes mainstream acceptance right now.

Have never invested and probably will never invest in an EV maker*. Made a few bucks shorting Tesla when it was overheated, but I realized that was a fool's errand. But I don't invest in legacy carmakers either, so nothing new there.

That said, I think there are 2 types of people for whom this is a legit statement:
1. Renters who are unable to charge overnight at their residence. I wouldn't want to have to navigate it. And home prices are working against EVs in this regard, though I'd think inclusion of charging options at rentals will become a nice differentiator for renters going forward.
2. Anyone who legit roadtrips more than 600ish miles more than 2-3 times a year.

If people don't fall into 1 of those 2 categories and they aren't buying an EV strictly due to range concerns, they're making that decision out of ignorance. Which should surprise nobody.

We're #### as a country at maintaining the infrastructure we have, so I doubt we're going to see the serious investments other countries have made into EV infrastructure. Which is one of the reasons we'll continue to lag in EV adoption. But don't sell ignorance short in that regard. We're really good at not wanting to know what we don't know.

*Realized after I posted that this was a lie. I bought a SPAC that turned into LEV. Rode it up and dumped enough to get my basis out. Free rode the rest down to where it is now, pretty much meeting my expectations for investing in EV manufacturers (Yes, I know lots of people have made lots of money on TSLA. I've just never seen value there. Perhaps my own ignorance on display).

Personally I would bump your #2 to 6 or more times a year. You can easily rent a gas vehicle if you don't want to turn a 10 hour trip into an 11 hour trip.

Funny you mention EV and apartments. One of our local apartments offers it for free. Since no one ever uses it, I'll drop my truck off overnight for free electrons. Regarding rental homes, it's almost a no brainer if you have the right power company. Our local major (Duke) will pay for your install costs if you buy the $450 charger.

 

[Peggy]

Why our country and its current leadership did not go full on Hydrogen Cell technology is beyond me.

Most likely the EV lobbying had deeper pockets.

Hydrogen Cell power.....filling stations infrastructure already in place...you just need to convert them to have hydrogen fuel available in addition to gasoline as we transition to that tech.

It made too much sense. But nope...we are going to push EV tech instead which has its own massive anti green issues.

Anyway....huge mistake imo.

And damn EV's are still overpriced.

I am far more likely to purchase a hybrid than a straight up EV.

I was itching to reply even before reading your last sentence that we skipped right over hybrids. We didn't even push for what makes the most sense for transitioning.

Personally I never understood how paying for a battery and then still adding in an ICE and tranny made sense. I mean it makes sense from a legacy car manufacturers standpoint because it keeps your service bays full.

Flexibility and cheaper.

 

[SFBayDuck]

And yet I feel like the most common car I see on the roads right now are Teslas. They are everywhere but this is Oregon, so.....

I’ve taken five Uber rides in the last week in Phoenix and SF. Every one was a Tesla.

 

[IC FBGCav]

And yet I feel like the most common car I see on the roads right now are Teslas. They are everywhere but this is Oregon, so.....

You see what you look for.

 

[hooter311]

Small town Wisconsin.

I've been in a Tesla once, in a uber. Kids here still point and take pictures.

 

[ChiefD]

Small town Wisconsin.

I've been in a Tesla once, in a uber. Kids here still point and take pictures.

What town? I’m moving up to Wisconsin in a few weeks

 

[jwb]

Tesla getting smoked. 1st Q deliveries way down, even lower than the most bearish estimates.

I honestly feel the demand for EV's was always overestimated. Too much "range/charging uncertainty" for many folks. So the people who really want them have them, and until those negatives are addressed, the rest of us will wait.

Range issues are way overblown. Personally I'm fine with people watching their B&W TVs while I enjoy my 4K QLED.

It's definitely not overblown, especially in the macro context of public perception and investing.

Range is a legit concern that won't go away until recharging is as easy/fast/thoughtless as getting gas. And it's not remotely close to that. Like it or not, until we can pull off nearly any exit and charge up in ten minutes and be on our way, it'll be an issue. The tv comparison is not valid here - upgrading to color did not change my tv watching habits one bit. Getting an EV and going on a long trip... now it's different, and I have to factor in A) where to recharge, because I can't assume nearly every exit has charging stations and B) how long I have to budget for it timewise. Those are massive roadblocks to full on mainstream acceptance, no matter how much current owners say they do just fine with it.

Although I don't own one, I'm on your side here. I truly want EV's to succeed, and I hope they solve this issue. And I think they will eventually. But until then, I see it as a not-great investment, mostly because EV stocks seem to be priced at a level that assumes mainstream acceptance right now.

https://supercharge.info/map They are everywhere. I had no problem traveling from Charlotte to New York and Charlotte to Jackson Mississippi.

In ten minutes you can add 130 miles, 200 if you spend 15 minutes.

I thought the TV was a valid comparison. My driving habits haven't changed. I just now have a vehicle that drives itself on the freeway, accelerates faster than a NASCAR, and is much safer to drive.

But they aren't everywhere. That map looks impressive zoomed out. Zoom in and it's a very different story. That's the problem for a lot of people. I don't need a map to show me where to get gas. I just know it's there, no matter where I am. When EV reaches that point, then we're talking.

For you and the other early adopters, it's enough stations. For people with short drives and always charging at home, I can see it working fine. Ubers/etc, yes, sure. And if you want to plan your charging for a long ride, have at it. They definitely have their place. But honestly, seeing that map makes me want to buy one less. I'm surprised at how few there are in many populous places. I'd personally have constant fuel anxiety visiting someplace for a few days in a Tesla.

I'm glad you like yours. It sounds nice. I'll buy one too when I don't have to think about refueling. And I'm guessing that line of thought is responsible for a lot of EV stock woes (I don't mean for this to turn into an EV debate - it's about the stock price and it's clear they've hit a wall on demand.)

 

[Bossman]

I'm ready to dip my toes into the bitcoin with the impending launch about to ensue (allegedly).
I'm not sure the best way to gain exposure ...
I'd like to invest in the currency, not the mining / harvesting ... since bitcoin crops are drying up (allegedly).
Are these where I should be looking?
GBTC
IBIT
FBTC
BITB

 

[Bossman]

Tesla getting smoked. 1st Q deliveries way down, even lower than the most bearish estimates.

I honestly feel the demand for EV's was always overestimated. Too much "range/charging uncertainty" for many folks. So the people who really want them have them, and until those negatives are addressed, the rest of us will wait.

Range issues are way overblown. Personally I'm fine with people watching their B&W TVs while I enjoy my 4K QLED.

It's definitely not overblown, especially in the macro context of public perception and investing.

Range is a legit concern that won't go away until recharging is as easy/fast/thoughtless as getting gas. And it's not remotely close to that. Like it or not, until we can pull off nearly any exit and charge up in ten minutes and be on our way, it'll be an issue. The tv comparison is not valid here - upgrading to color did not change my tv watching habits one bit. Getting an EV and going on a long trip... now it's different, and I have to factor in A) where to recharge, because I can't assume nearly every exit has charging stations and B) how long I have to budget for it timewise. Those are massive roadblocks to full on mainstream acceptance, no matter how much current owners say they do just fine with it.

Although I don't own one, I'm on your side here. I truly want EV's to succeed, and I hope they solve this issue. And I think they will eventually. But until then, I see it as a not-great investment, mostly because EV stocks seem to be priced at a level that assumes mainstream acceptance right now.

https://supercharge.info/map They are everywhere. I had no problem traveling from Charlotte to New York and Charlotte to Jackson Mississippi.

In ten minutes you can add 130 miles, 200 if you spend 15 minutes.

I thought the TV was a valid comparison. My driving habits haven't changed. I just now have a vehicle that drives itself on the freeway, accelerates faster than a NASCAR, and is much safer to drive.

But they aren't everywhere. That map looks impressive zoomed out. Zoom in and it's a very different story. That's the problem for a lot of people. I don't need a map to show me where to get gas. I just know it's there, no matter where I am. When EV reaches that point, then we're talking.

For you and the other early adopters, it's enough stations. For people with short drives and always charging at home, I can see it working fine. Ubers/etc, yes, sure. And if you want to plan your charging for a long ride, have at it. They definitely have their place. But honestly, seeing that map makes me want to buy one less. I'm surprised at how few there are in many populous places. I'd personally have constant fuel anxiety visiting someplace for a few days in a Tesla.

I'm glad you like yours. It sounds nice. I'll buy one too when I don't have to think about refueling. And I'm guessing that line of thought is responsible for a lot of EV stock woes (I don't mean for this to turn into an EV debate - it's about the stock price and it's clear they've hit a wall on demand.)

Most families own 2 cars ... I would think you could have one gas & one electric and use them accordingly.
Daily commute to work? ... take the EV and save the planet. Long distance trip? ... burn fossil fuel like a Neanderthal
Why does it have to be all one or all of the other?

 

[ChiefD]

I can drive from Kansas City to Milwaukee on one tank of gas in my F150.













Just thought you all might like to know that.

 

[hooter311]

Small town Wisconsin.

I've been in a Tesla once, in a uber. Kids here still point and take pictures.

What town? I’m moving up to Wisconsin in a few weeks

I'm in La Crosse. Travel around the whole western side of the state for work on the regs.

 

[hooter311]

I'm ready to dip my toes into the bitcoin with the impending launch about to ensue (allegedly).
I'm not sure the best way to gain exposure ...
I'd like to invest in the currency, not the mining / harvesting ... since bitcoin crops are drying up (allegedly).
Are these where I should be looking?
GBTC
IBIT
FBTC
BITB

Scratch gbtc off that list and add HODL. Gbtc has 1.5% fees and the rest are .3% or less.

Personally, I prefer IBIT

 

[BassNBrew]

Tesla getting smoked. 1st Q deliveries way down, even lower than the most bearish estimates.

I honestly feel the demand for EV's was always overestimated. Too much "range/charging uncertainty" for many folks. So the people who really want them have them, and until those negatives are addressed, the rest of us will wait.

Range issues are way overblown. Personally I'm fine with people watching their B&W TVs while I enjoy my 4K QLED.

It's definitely not overblown, especially in the macro context of public perception and investing.

Range is a legit concern that won't go away until recharging is as easy/fast/thoughtless as getting gas. And it's not remotely close to that. Like it or not, until we can pull off nearly any exit and charge up in ten minutes and be on our way, it'll be an issue. The tv comparison is not valid here - upgrading to color did not change my tv watching habits one bit. Getting an EV and going on a long trip... now it's different, and I have to factor in A) where to recharge, because I can't assume nearly every exit has charging stations and B) how long I have to budget for it timewise. Those are massive roadblocks to full on mainstream acceptance, no matter how much current owners say they do just fine with it.

Although I don't own one, I'm on your side here. I truly want EV's to succeed, and I hope they solve this issue. And I think they will eventually. But until then, I see it as a not-great investment, mostly because EV stocks seem to be priced at a level that assumes mainstream acceptance right now.

https://supercharge.info/map They are everywhere. I had no problem traveling from Charlotte to New York and Charlotte to Jackson Mississippi.

In ten minutes you can add 130 miles, 200 if you spend 15 minutes.

I thought the TV was a valid comparison. My driving habits haven't changed. I just now have a vehicle that drives itself on the freeway, accelerates faster than a NASCAR, and is much safer to drive.

But they aren't everywhere. That map looks impressive zoomed out. Zoom in and it's a very different story. That's the problem for a lot of people. I don't need a map to show me where to get gas. I just know it's there, no matter where I am. When EV reaches that point, then we're talking.

For you and the other early adopters, it's enough stations. For people with short drives and always charging at home, I can see it working fine. Ubers/etc, yes, sure. And if you want to plan your charging for a long ride, have at it. They definitely have their place. But honestly, seeing that map makes me want to buy one less. I'm surprised at how few there are in many populous places. I'd personally have constant fuel anxiety visiting someplace for a few days in a Tesla.

I'm glad you like yours. It sounds nice. I'll buy one too when I don't have to think about refueling. And I'm guessing that line of thought is responsible for a lot of EV stock woes (I don't mean for this to turn into an EV debate - it's about the stock price and it's clear they've hit a wall on demand.)

Personally I think it has to do with gas car technology allowing us to drive down to zero miles. Old man rant...back when our gas gauges were analog and we we didn't have a portable super computer, we filled our vehicle when we got below a quarter tank. 300 hundred miles is 4-5 hours of driving. There's really no planning, the car computer tells you where to stop. I rented a Tesla for 4-5 months last year for long trips. My gas savings from vs using my truck paid for the rental. Only difference was instead of getting quality Starbucks coffee (your mileage may vary) every 4 hours, I was getting gas station coffee and then I'd spend an additional 10-15 minutes on my phone.

That charging experience plus the far superior driving characteristics convince me to buy one. I don't charge home (so many charging options I haven't bothered to install one yet) and at and us mine for a business vehicle so I'm putting on 25k a year. Twice in 4 months I've had to take time out during my day to supercharge for 15 minutes. Doesn't really bother me since it's next to an REI and can take 15 minutes to check out their wares. My point is that I don't fit your short drive charge at home model. Additionally, It's surprising how many level 2 charging stations are out there. Both state parks near me offer free charging. Show up, hike, and end up at home with more electrons than I started the day. The local town offers free charging. The parking garages in Asheville offer free charging when I'm road tripping there. The savings covers two craft beers. I literally went three weeks without paying for a charge. May challenge myself to try for a month once work slows down (I stop making excuses for not exercising). Just would require a 1/2 hour walk in the evening and the morning 2x a week to get me the equivalent of 26,000 miles a year.

From a stock standpoint, I don't want to be in the car business. I've owned Tesla for about a week and Rivian the same when I recommended it here for a day play on the recent R2 release event. They've been priced as tech stocks, they aren't.

 

[BassNBrew]

And yet I feel like the most common car I see on the roads right now are Teslas. They are everywhere but this is Oregon, so.....

I’ve taken five Uber rides in the last week in Phoenix and SF. Every one was a Tesla.

Around here you can you can rent one for $200 to $250 a week. At $250 you're talking $36 a day. At 300 miles a day that's 12 cents a mile. Add in 35 cents a mile for supercharging and you're at 47 cents a mile. Gov't gives you 67 cents a mile write off. It's a no brainer to rack up wear and tear on hertz vs. using your own vehicle.

 

[Todem]

Tesla getting smoked. 1st Q deliveries way down, even lower than the most bearish estimates.

I honestly feel the demand for EV's was always overestimated. Too much "range/charging uncertainty" for many folks. So the people who really want them have them, and until those negatives are addressed, the rest of us will wait.

Range issues are way overblown. Personally I'm fine with people watching their B&W TVs while I enjoy my 4K QLED.

It's definitely not overblown, especially in the macro context of public perception and investing.

Range is a legit concern that won't go away until recharging is as easy/fast/thoughtless as getting gas. And it's not remotely close to that. Like it or not, until we can pull off nearly any exit and charge up in ten minutes and be on our way, it'll be an issue. The tv comparison is not valid here - upgrading to color did not change my tv watching habits one bit. Getting an EV and going on a long trip... now it's different, and I have to factor in A) where to recharge, because I can't assume nearly every exit has charging stations and B) how long I have to budget for it timewise. Those are massive roadblocks to full on mainstream acceptance, no matter how much current owners say they do just fine with it.

Although I don't own one, I'm on your side here. I truly want EV's to succeed, and I hope they solve this issue. And I think they will eventually. But until then, I see it as a not-great investment, mostly because EV stocks seem to be priced at a level that assumes mainstream acceptance right now.

https://supercharge.info/map They are everywhere. I had no problem traveling from Charlotte to New York and Charlotte to Jackson Mississippi.

In ten minutes you can add 130 miles, 200 if you spend 15 minutes.

I thought the TV was a valid comparison. My driving habits haven't changed. I just now have a vehicle that drives itself on the freeway, accelerates faster than a NASCAR, and is much safer to drive.

But they aren't everywhere. That map looks impressive zoomed out. Zoom in and it's a very different story. That's the problem for a lot of people. I don't need a map to show me where to get gas. I just know it's there, no matter where I am. When EV reaches that point, then we're talking.

For you and the other early adopters, it's enough stations. For people with short drives and always charging at home, I can see it working fine. Ubers/etc, yes, sure. And if you want to plan your charging for a long ride, have at it. They definitely have their place. But honestly, seeing that map makes me want to buy one less. I'm surprised at how few there are in many populous places. I'd personally have constant fuel anxiety visiting someplace for a few days in a Tesla.

I'm glad you like yours. It sounds nice. I'll buy one too when I don't have to think about refueling. And I'm guessing that line of thought is responsible for a lot of EV stock woes (I don't mean for this to turn into an EV debate - it's about the stock price and it's clear they've hit a wall on demand.)

Personally I think it has to do with gas car technology allowing us to drive down to zero miles. Old man rant...back when our gas gauges were analog and we we didn't have a portable super computer, we filled our vehicle when we got below a quarter tank. 300 hundred miles is 4-5 hours of driving. There's really no planning, the car computer tells you where to stop. I rented a Tesla for 4-5 months last year for long trips. My gas savings from vs using my truck paid for the rental. Only difference was instead of getting quality Starbucks coffee (your mileage may vary) every 4 hours, I was getting gas station coffee and then I'd spend an additional 10-15 minutes on my phone.

That charging experience plus the far superior driving characteristics convince me to buy one. I don't charge home (so many charging options I haven't bothered to install one yet) and at and us mine for a business vehicle so I'm putting on 25k a year. Twice in 4 months I've had to take time out during my day to supercharge for 15 minutes. Doesn't really bother me since it's next to an REI and can take 15 minutes to check out their wares. My point is that I don't fit your short drive charge at home model. Additionally, It's surprising how many level 2 charging stations are out there. Both state parks near me offer free charging. Show up, hike, and end up at home with more electrons than I started the day. The local town offers free charging. The parking garages in Asheville offer free charging when I'm road tripping there. The savings covers two craft beers. I literally went three weeks without paying for a charge. May challenge myself to try for a month once work slows down (I stop making excuses for not exercising). Just would require a 1/2 hour walk in the evening and the morning 2x a week to get me the equivalent of 26,000 miles a year.

From a stock standpoint, I don't want to be in the car business. I've owned Tesla for about a week and Rivian the same when I recommended it here for a day play on the recent R2 release event. They've been priced as tech stocks, they aren't.

When other electric options come onboard from car manufacturers I actually like (I do not like Tesla’s, my business partner has a P90? loaded and I hated the interior and overall feel of the drive) I would consider it. I have been a Nissan Maxima guy since 1990. I own a 2018 Maxima SR with 70K and have at least another 4-5 years of owning this one. It’s paid for.

I am not an early adopter with any technology.....never have been. And the main reasons are.....work out the kinks and price. Once the price is a lot more mainstream and we are basically forced to change.....yeah of course I will adapt. We all will at some point.

But all EV by 2030? Absolutely not gonna happen at the pace we are on.

 

[General Malaise]

And yet I feel like the most common car I see on the roads right now are Teslas. They are everywhere but this is Oregon, so.....

You see what you look for.

Don't speak for me.

How did I speak for you,

"You see what you look for" directly quoting me.

Your next post after, lol. Such a drama queen.

 

[Bossman]

I'm ready to dip my toes into the bitcoin with the impending launch about to ensue (allegedly).
I'm not sure the best way to gain exposure ...
I'd like to invest in the currency, not the mining / harvesting ... since bitcoin crops are drying up (allegedly).
Are these where I should be looking?
GBTC
IBIT
FBTC
BITB

Scratch gbtc off that list and add HODL. Gbtc has 1.5% fees and the rest are .3% or less.

Personally, I prefer IBIT

That little spike in IBIT at 10am was probably me.
... I'd like to think.

 

[BassNBrew]

Tesla getting smoked. 1st Q deliveries way down, even lower than the most bearish estimates.

I honestly feel the demand for EV's was always overestimated. Too much "range/charging uncertainty" for many folks. So the people who really want them have them, and until those negatives are addressed, the rest of us will wait.

Range issues are way overblown. Personally I'm fine with people watching their B&W TVs while I enjoy my 4K QLED.

It's definitely not overblown, especially in the macro context of public perception and investing.

Range is a legit concern that won't go away until recharging is as easy/fast/thoughtless as getting gas. And it's not remotely close to that. Like it or not, until we can pull off nearly any exit and charge up in ten minutes and be on our way, it'll be an issue. The tv comparison is not valid here - upgrading to color did not change my tv watching habits one bit. Getting an EV and going on a long trip... now it's different, and I have to factor in A) where to recharge, because I can't assume nearly every exit has charging stations and B) how long I have to budget for it timewise. Those are massive roadblocks to full on mainstream acceptance, no matter how much current owners say they do just fine with it.

Although I don't own one, I'm on your side here. I truly want EV's to succeed, and I hope they solve this issue. And I think they will eventually. But until then, I see it as a not-great investment, mostly because EV stocks seem to be priced at a level that assumes mainstream acceptance right now.

https://supercharge.info/map They are everywhere. I had no problem traveling from Charlotte to New York and Charlotte to Jackson Mississippi.

In ten minutes you can add 130 miles, 200 if you spend 15 minutes.

I thought the TV was a valid comparison. My driving habits haven't changed. I just now have a vehicle that drives itself on the freeway, accelerates faster than a NASCAR, and is much safer to drive.

But they aren't everywhere. That map looks impressive zoomed out. Zoom in and it's a very different story. That's the problem for a lot of people. I don't need a map to show me where to get gas. I just know it's there, no matter where I am. When EV reaches that point, then we're talking.

For you and the other early adopters, it's enough stations. For people with short drives and always charging at home, I can see it working fine. Ubers/etc, yes, sure. And if you want to plan your charging for a long ride, have at it. They definitely have their place. But honestly, seeing that map makes me want to buy one less. I'm surprised at how few there are in many populous places. I'd personally have constant fuel anxiety visiting someplace for a few days in a Tesla.

I'm glad you like yours. It sounds nice. I'll buy one too when I don't have to think about refueling. And I'm guessing that line of thought is responsible for a lot of EV stock woes (I don't mean for this to turn into an EV debate - it's about the stock price and it's clear they've hit a wall on demand.)

Personally I think it has to do with gas car technology allowing us to drive down to zero miles. Old man rant...back when our gas gauges were analog and we we didn't have a portable super computer, we filled our vehicle when we got below a quarter tank. 300 hundred miles is 4-5 hours of driving. There's really no planning, the car computer tells you where to stop. I rented a Tesla for 4-5 months last year for long trips. My gas savings from vs using my truck paid for the rental. Only difference was instead of getting quality Starbucks coffee (your mileage may vary) every 4 hours, I was getting gas station coffee and then I'd spend an additional 10-15 minutes on my phone.

That charging experience plus the far superior driving characteristics convince me to buy one. I don't charge home (so many charging options I haven't bothered to install one yet) and at and us mine for a business vehicle so I'm putting on 25k a year. Twice in 4 months I've had to take time out during my day to supercharge for 15 minutes. Doesn't really bother me since it's next to an REI and can take 15 minutes to check out their wares. My point is that I don't fit your short drive charge at home model. Additionally, It's surprising how many level 2 charging stations are out there. Both state parks near me offer free charging. Show up, hike, and end up at home with more electrons than I started the day. The local town offers free charging. The parking garages in Asheville offer free charging when I'm road tripping there. The savings covers two craft beers. I literally went three weeks without paying for a charge. May challenge myself to try for a month once work slows down (I stop making excuses for not exercising). Just would require a 1/2 hour walk in the evening and the morning 2x a week to get me the equivalent of 26,000 miles a year.

From a stock standpoint, I don't want to be in the car business. I've owned Tesla for about a week and Rivian the same when I recommended it here for a day play on the recent R2 release event. They've been priced as tech stocks, they aren't.

When other electric options come onboard from car manufacturers I actually like (I do not like Tesla’s, my business partner has a P90? loaded and I hated the interior and overall feel of the drive) I would consider it. I have been a Nissan Maxima guy since 1990. I own a 2018 Maxima SR with 70K and have at least another 4-5 years of owning this one. It’s paid for.

I am not an early adopter with any technology.....never have been. And the main reasons are.....work out the kinks and price. Once the price is a lot more mainstream and we are basically forced to change.....yeah of course I am will adapt. We all will at some point.

But all EV by 2030? Absolutely not gonna happen at the pace we are on.

Agree. In Joe's poll last year I went the option around 2060 as I recall. Honestly it's really going to come down to what the gov't does. In CO people were trying to influence you go bagless. Once the gov't banned them than we were forced to adapt. Personally I would hope the driving experience and cost would drive the change and not gov't forcing it. EVs should be cheaper, once you remove the tranny, engine, and exhaust handling. I realize most early adopters are going to take a bath on re-sale. It gave me pause, but as a company vehicle I'm insulated by 40% and coming from a Nissan Titan that was getting 8-12 mpg around town, the disappearance of $600 a month gas bills helps with the cost. Also as you mentioned, there might be other technology by 2050 to 2060 that makes EVs obsolete. I still don't understand why we don't have the Jettson's mode of travel in this day and age.

 

[hooter311]

For the record, the bitcoin miners will be fine. The halvening is not going to result in their revenues being cut in half. Bitcoin's creator accounted for all of this in the original thesis. Last cycle they pumped after the halvening and I expect the same this time around.

Favorites:

$mara
$hut

Others:
$clsk
$wulf
$riot
$bitf


ETA: $MARA under $20 is the best value currently to make a 3 month- 3 year play on bitcoin. Most hash rate and Largest bitcoin reserves out of all of them. Still recovering from the million shares they had to dillute last month to buy more equipment.

Im in for 911 shares at an average cost of $29.20. Most of it ive been holding since 2021 waiting to get back to green.

 

[nysfl2]

Tesla getting smoked. 1st Q deliveries way down, even lower than the most bearish estimates.

I honestly feel the demand for EV's was always overestimated. Too much "range/charging uncertainty" for many folks. So the people who really want them have them, and until those negatives are addressed, the rest of us will wait.

Range issues are way overblown. Personally I'm fine with people watching their B&W TVs while I enjoy my 4K QLED.

It's definitely not overblown, especially in the macro context of public perception and investing.

Range is a legit concern that won't go away until recharging is as easy/fast/thoughtless as getting gas. And it's not remotely close to that. Like it or not, until we can pull off nearly any exit and charge up in ten minutes and be on our way, it'll be an issue. The tv comparison is not valid here - upgrading to color did not change my tv watching habits one bit. Getting an EV and going on a long trip... now it's different, and I have to factor in A) where to recharge, because I can't assume nearly every exit has charging stations and B) how long I have to budget for it timewise. Those are massive roadblocks to full on mainstream acceptance, no matter how much current owners say they do just fine with it.

Although I don't own one, I'm on your side here. I truly want EV's to succeed, and I hope they solve this issue. And I think they will eventually. But until then, I see it as a not-great investment, mostly because EV stocks seem to be priced at a level that assumes mainstream acceptance right now.

https://supercharge.info/map They are everywhere. I had no problem traveling from Charlotte to New York and Charlotte to Jackson Mississippi.

In ten minutes you can add 130 miles, 200 if you spend 15 minutes.

I thought the TV was a valid comparison. My driving habits haven't changed. I just now have a vehicle that drives itself on the freeway, accelerates faster than a NASCAR, and is much safer to drive.

But they aren't everywhere. That map looks impressive zoomed out. Zoom in and it's a very different story. That's the problem for a lot of people. I don't need a map to show me where to get gas. I just know it's there, no matter where I am. When EV reaches that point, then we're talking.

For you and the other early adopters, it's enough stations. For people with short drives and always charging at home, I can see it working fine. Ubers/etc, yes, sure. And if you want to plan your charging for a long ride, have at it. They definitely have their place. But honestly, seeing that map makes me want to buy one less. I'm surprised at how few there are in many populous places. I'd personally have constant fuel anxiety visiting someplace for a few days in a Tesla.

I'm glad you like yours. It sounds nice. I'll buy one too when I don't have to think about refueling. And I'm guessing that line of thought is responsible for a lot of EV stock woes (I don't mean for this to turn into an EV debate - it's about the stock price and it's clear they've hit a wall on demand.)

Personally I think it has to do with gas car technology allowing us to drive down to zero miles. Old man rant...back when our gas gauges were analog and we we didn't have a portable super computer, we filled our vehicle when we got below a quarter tank. 300 hundred miles is 4-5 hours of driving. There's really no planning, the car computer tells you where to stop. I rented a Tesla for 4-5 months last year for long trips. My gas savings from vs using my truck paid for the rental. Only difference was instead of getting quality Starbucks coffee (your mileage may vary) every 4 hours, I was getting gas station coffee and then I'd spend an additional 10-15 minutes on my phone.

That charging experience plus the far superior driving characteristics convince me to buy one. I don't charge home (so many charging options I haven't bothered to install one yet) and at and us mine for a business vehicle so I'm putting on 25k a year. Twice in 4 months I've had to take time out during my day to supercharge for 15 minutes. Doesn't really bother me since it's next to an REI and can take 15 minutes to check out their wares. My point is that I don't fit your short drive charge at home model. Additionally, It's surprising how many level 2 charging stations are out there. Both state parks near me offer free charging. Show up, hike, and end up at home with more electrons than I started the day. The local town offers free charging. The parking garages in Asheville offer free charging when I'm road tripping there. The savings covers two craft beers. I literally went three weeks without paying for a charge. May challenge myself to try for a month once work slows down (I stop making excuses for not exercising). Just would require a 1/2 hour walk in the evening and the morning 2x a week to get me the equivalent of 26,000 miles a year.

From a stock standpoint, I don't want to be in the car business. I've owned Tesla for about a week and Rivian the same when I recommended it here for a day play on the recent R2 release event. They've been priced as tech stocks, they aren't.

When other electric options come onboard from car manufacturers I actually like (I do not like Tesla’s, my business partner has a P90? loaded and I hated the interior and overall feel of the drive) I would consider it. I have been a Nissan Maxima guy since 1990. I own a 2018 Maxima SR with 70K and have at least another 4-5 years of owning this one. It’s paid for.

I am not an early adopter with any technology.....never have been. And the main reasons are.....work out the kinks and price. Once the price is a lot more mainstream and we are basically forced to change.....yeah of course I am will adapt. We all will at some point.

But all EV by 2030? Absolutely not gonna happen at the pace we are on.

Agree. In Joe's poll last year I went the option around 2060 as I recall. Honestly it's really going to come down to what the gov't does. In CO people were trying to influence you go bagless. Once the gov't banned them than we were forced to adapt. Personally I would hope the driving experience and cost would drive the change and not gov't forcing it. EVs should be cheaper, once you remove the tranny, engine, and exhaust handling. I realize most early adopters are going to take a bath on re-sale. It gave me pause, but as a company vehicle I'm insulated by 40% and coming from a Nissan Titan that was getting 8-12 mpg around town, the disappearance of $600 a month gas bills helps with the cost. Also as you mentioned, there might be other technology by 2050 to 2060 that makes EVs obsolete. I still don't understand why we don't have the Jettson's mode of travel in this day and age.

BIggest challenge is still infrastructure. We should be moving in the direction of every gas station located on an expressway off-ramp installing charging capability with heavy government support. Or every rest area along the side of the highway. The rate that these things are getting added in many states is way too slow.

 

[BassNBrew]

Tesla getting smoked. 1st Q deliveries way down, even lower than the most bearish estimates.

I honestly feel the demand for EV's was always overestimated. Too much "range/charging uncertainty" for many folks. So the people who really want them have them, and until those negatives are addressed, the rest of us will wait.

Range issues are way overblown. Personally I'm fine with people watching their B&W TVs while I enjoy my 4K QLED.

It's definitely not overblown, especially in the macro context of public perception and investing.

Range is a legit concern that won't go away until recharging is as easy/fast/thoughtless as getting gas. And it's not remotely close to that. Like it or not, until we can pull off nearly any exit and charge up in ten minutes and be on our way, it'll be an issue. The tv comparison is not valid here - upgrading to color did not change my tv watching habits one bit. Getting an EV and going on a long trip... now it's different, and I have to factor in A) where to recharge, because I can't assume nearly every exit has charging stations and B) how long I have to budget for it timewise. Those are massive roadblocks to full on mainstream acceptance, no matter how much current owners say they do just fine with it.

Although I don't own one, I'm on your side here. I truly want EV's to succeed, and I hope they solve this issue. And I think they will eventually. But until then, I see it as a not-great investment, mostly because EV stocks seem to be priced at a level that assumes mainstream acceptance right now.

https://supercharge.info/map They are everywhere. I had no problem traveling from Charlotte to New York and Charlotte to Jackson Mississippi.

In ten minutes you can add 130 miles, 200 if you spend 15 minutes.

I thought the TV was a valid comparison. My driving habits haven't changed. I just now have a vehicle that drives itself on the freeway, accelerates faster than a NASCAR, and is much safer to drive.

But they aren't everywhere. That map looks impressive zoomed out. Zoom in and it's a very different story. That's the problem for a lot of people. I don't need a map to show me where to get gas. I just know it's there, no matter where I am. When EV reaches that point, then we're talking.

For you and the other early adopters, it's enough stations. For people with short drives and always charging at home, I can see it working fine. Ubers/etc, yes, sure. And if you want to plan your charging for a long ride, have at it. They definitely have their place. But honestly, seeing that map makes me want to buy one less. I'm surprised at how few there are in many populous places. I'd personally have constant fuel anxiety visiting someplace for a few days in a Tesla.

I'm glad you like yours. It sounds nice. I'll buy one too when I don't have to think about refueling. And I'm guessing that line of thought is responsible for a lot of EV stock woes (I don't mean for this to turn into an EV debate - it's about the stock price and it's clear they've hit a wall on demand.)

Personally I think it has to do with gas car technology allowing us to drive down to zero miles. Old man rant...back when our gas gauges were analog and we we didn't have a portable super computer, we filled our vehicle when we got below a quarter tank. 300 hundred miles is 4-5 hours of driving. There's really no planning, the car computer tells you where to stop. I rented a Tesla for 4-5 months last year for long trips. My gas savings from vs using my truck paid for the rental. Only difference was instead of getting quality Starbucks coffee (your mileage may vary) every 4 hours, I was getting gas station coffee and then I'd spend an additional 10-15 minutes on my phone.

That charging experience plus the far superior driving characteristics convince me to buy one. I don't charge home (so many charging options I haven't bothered to install one yet) and at and us mine for a business vehicle so I'm putting on 25k a year. Twice in 4 months I've had to take time out during my day to supercharge for 15 minutes. Doesn't really bother me since it's next to an REI and can take 15 minutes to check out their wares. My point is that I don't fit your short drive charge at home model. Additionally, It's surprising how many level 2 charging stations are out there. Both state parks near me offer free charging. Show up, hike, and end up at home with more electrons than I started the day. The local town offers free charging. The parking garages in Asheville offer free charging when I'm road tripping there. The savings covers two craft beers. I literally went three weeks without paying for a charge. May challenge myself to try for a month once work slows down (I stop making excuses for not exercising). Just would require a 1/2 hour walk in the evening and the morning 2x a week to get me the equivalent of 26,000 miles a year.

From a stock standpoint, I don't want to be in the car business. I've owned Tesla for about a week and Rivian the same when I recommended it here for a day play on the recent R2 release event. They've been priced as tech stocks, they aren't.

When other electric options come onboard from car manufacturers I actually like (I do not like Tesla’s, my business partner has a P90? loaded and I hated the interior and overall feel of the drive) I would consider it. I have been a Nissan Maxima guy since 1990. I own a 2018 Maxima SR with 70K and have at least another 4-5 years of owning this one. It’s paid for.

I am not an early adopter with any technology.....never have been. And the main reasons are.....work out the kinks and price. Once the price is a lot more mainstream and we are basically forced to change.....yeah of course I am will adapt. We all will at some point.

But all EV by 2030? Absolutely not gonna happen at the pace we are on.

Agree. In Joe's poll last year I went the option around 2060 as I recall. Honestly it's really going to come down to what the gov't does. In CO people were trying to influence you go bagless. Once the gov't banned them than we were forced to adapt. Personally I would hope the driving experience and cost would drive the change and not gov't forcing it. EVs should be cheaper, once you remove the tranny, engine, and exhaust handling. I realize most early adopters are going to take a bath on re-sale. It gave me pause, but as a company vehicle I'm insulated by 40% and coming from a Nissan Titan that was getting 8-12 mpg around town, the disappearance of $600 a month gas bills helps with the cost. Also as you mentioned, there might be other technology by 2050 to 2060 that makes EVs obsolete. I still don't understand why we don't have the Jettson's mode of travel in this day and age.

BIggest challenge is still infrastructure. We should be moving in the direction of every gas station located on an expressway off-ramp installing charging capability with heavy government support. Or every rest area along the side of the highway. The rate that these things are getting added in many states is way too slow.

Agreed. Kind of funny that the state puts two free charging stations out in the middle of nowhere at the base of a mountain and none at a rest stop.

 

[hooter311]

I'm ready to dip my toes into the bitcoin with the impending launch about to ensue (allegedly).
I'm not sure the best way to gain exposure ...
I'd like to invest in the currency, not the mining / harvesting ... since bitcoin crops are drying up (allegedly).
Are these where I should be looking?
GBTC
IBIT
FBTC
BITB

Scratch gbtc off that list and add HODL. Gbtc has 1.5% fees and the rest are .3% or less.

Personally, I prefer IBIT

That little spike in IBIT at 10am was probably me.
... I'd like to think.

Well timed!

 

[The General]

Buckle up!

 

[hooter311]

I'll try to move the bitcoin talk to the other thread. Thank you for tolerating me. I appreciate you fellas!

 

[Sand]

From a stock standpoint, I don't want to be in the car business. I've owned Tesla for about a week and Rivian the same when I recommended it here for a day play on the recent R2 release event. They've been priced as tech stocks, they aren't.

I really want to get a Ryvid Anthem, but my wife thinks I'll kill myself. Looks super fun and I could reduce my gas use to just about zero since I work pretty close to home.

 

[Sand]

Buckle up!

What the hell did you do to the market?

 

[McBokonon]

I'll try to move the bitcoin talk to the other thread. Thank you for tolerating me. I appreciate you fellas!

Please also keep posting it here if you can. I trade the ETF's and find it helpful when you chime in.

 

[The General]

Buckle up!

What the hell did you do to the market?

“What does this button do?”

 

[Capella]

Rocky week

 

[fruity pebbles]

Turn those machines back on

 

[SFBayDuck]

14% spike in the VIX in the last few minutes?

 

[General Malaise]

Alphamin up 6%.

That's all I got.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

lol GOOGL

"Everybody's getting sued for antitrust violations. We should buy HUBS!!"

 

[Capella]

Amd down 7% today? Lmao. I’m buying that.

 

[General Malaise]

Rumors of Iran attacking Israel this weekend seemingly making the rounds. Market no like.

 

[Capella]

Rumors of Iran attacking Israel this weekend seemingly making the rounds. Market no like.

Well that would be bad for a lot more reasons than stonks

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Iran vowed revenge. That's a pretty strong rumor.