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RB/WR Cordarrelle Patterson, PIT (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Eminence
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VikingFrog
Footballguy
http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/217327491.html
Article on Patterson's abilities. Looks like they are willing to expedite his development. I'm expecting big things from him long term, but we may see what he can do early and often.
Article on Patterson's abilities. Looks like they are willing to expedite his development. I'm expecting big things from him long term, but we may see what he can do early and often.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Am I the only one who gets a DHB vibe from this kid?
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Nope. While I love him as an athlete I think he is VERY raw. He is sloppy in his route running, is a body catcher, and isn't the brightest of guys. Combine that with Ponder and thats a recipe for disaster. There is a reason a guy like Harvin wanted out of Minnasota.
doowain
Footballguy
I don't see it. DHB is a one trick pony. Blazing fast, but doesn't play up to his top speed. Terrible hands.
Patterson is raw, but what sets him apart from DHB is his ability with the ball in his hands. That will make him dangerous while he refines his route running. If they can utilize that ability (bubble screens, quick slants, etc.) he will be a weapon on Day 1. I see a ton of Brandon Marshall in him in the open field.
VikingFrog
Footballguy
I can see the route running critique, but when I watch highlights from last year at Tennessee I don't ever get the body catching that people reference.
Maybe that's because they are highlights, but I'm wondering where people get this opinion from.
Maybe that's because they are highlights, but I'm wondering where people get this opinion from.
mr roboto
Footballguy
Harvin was absolutely thriving in MN (when he was on the field). Ponder is certainly not great, but that offense was perfect for Harvin's abilities IMO. Maybe I'm missing something, but Ponders limitations enhanced Harvin's effectiveness.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
http://www.dailynorseman.com/2013/5/6/4305382/percy-harvin-v-christian-ponder-subtle-war-of-words
We have to disagree then. IMO those limitations affect the way players are covered, the routes that can be run, etc. He can do much more than catch 5 yard passes. A limitation is a limitation.
mr roboto
Footballguy
I agree that Harvin enhanced Ponder. But it's not like Percy was just wasting away in MN with Ponder under center. They tailored their pass offense around him, lined him up at RB etc. And how many QBs in the history of the league were as good as Favre? Russell Wilson is an upgrade but nowhere near Favre, at least not yet. Harvin was the focal point of the passing game in MN. They allowed him to continue to showcase his immense talent. I think that served Harvin well for his future value around the league. That's all I'm pointing out.
JFS171
Footballguy
I think I personally would feel a lot better about Patterson's immediate impact if he was playing in the same spot Percy played.
I thought the fit was excellent in the draft, and I like the package of skills with the ball in his hands. He'll be solid out of the gates in return yardage leagues for that reason, and given the Vikings' willigness to tailor an offense around a premiere weapon, it's certainly a sign for future hope.
But they've got Jennings playing Harvin's spot in the offense, with Patterson competing with Simpson on the other side. Now why they wouldn't flip the two, I'm not sure. Just makes me uneasy to completely jump on board with the kid in terms of immediate impact.
I thought the fit was excellent in the draft, and I like the package of skills with the ball in his hands. He'll be solid out of the gates in return yardage leagues for that reason, and given the Vikings' willigness to tailor an offense around a premiere weapon, it's certainly a sign for future hope.
But they've got Jennings playing Harvin's spot in the offense, with Patterson competing with Simpson on the other side. Now why they wouldn't flip the two, I'm not sure. Just makes me uneasy to completely jump on board with the kid in terms of immediate impact.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Yep.
He's now glued to the LOS. I don't like his odds of beating NFL corners right now. He's likely a decoy until he replaces Jennings, or develops into a better technical football player. His 2013 outlook took a hit, in my opinion, once this news was shared.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
They tailored their pass offense around Harvin w/ Ponder's limitations. It would have looked different if they had tailored their pass offense around Harvin w/ ______ at QB and NO LIMITATIONS. Ponder can't make all the throws. Wilson can make all the throws and he is as good or better than Favre was in his last two years in Minnasota.
Guess I don't understand your arguement.
In short, I said Harvin wants to play with a good QB and you say Harving was featured and Ponder was perfect for him and his abilities. A great QB makes a great WR even better, argue away if you want.
To bring this back on topic Patterson would be better of with Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Aaron Rodgers than Ponder.
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Concept Coop
Footballguy
Sure. But if we are talking about fantasy production, there is more to it than that. Harvin could potentially alter the game as much, or more, than he ever has, and still not get the same number of looks. For a guy whose value depended a lot on receptions and untraditional use - there is a reason to question.A great QB makes a great WR even better, argue away if you want.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Maybe he will maybe he won't get the same number of looks. In fantasy or "real life" I will take a player w/ a good QB in a better offense ten times out of ten. I know there are always outliers of production from guys on bad teams but in general players on good teams with good qbs perform better.Sure. But if we are talking about fantasy production, there is more to it than that. Harvin could potentially alter the game as much, or more, than he ever has, and still not get the same number of looks. For a guy whose value depended a lot on receptions and untraditional use - there is a reason to question.A great QB makes a great WR even better, argue away if you want.
FYI, Bevell was his OC in Minn for his first two years (half his career) and is now his OC once again so you should have a good idea of how he will be used.
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Concept Coop
Footballguy
I am not in the camp that thinks his dynasty value took a hit during the move. He's a top talent with a top QB. That should be enough to at least keep his value status quo.Maybe he will maybe he won't get the same number of looks. In fantasy or "real life" I will take a player w/ a good QB in a better offense ten times out of ten. I know there are always outliers of production from guys on bad teams but in general players on good teams with good qbs perform better.
FYI, Bevell was his OC in Minn for his first two years (half his career) and is now his OC once again so you should have a good idea of how he will be used.
But, especially in PPR leagues, I think the question is valid, at least. Seattle relies very heavily on the run, and has 3 talented backs, including a solid 3rd down back, and, of course, Lynch. And they won't need to force the ball to Harvin for things to happen.
We'll see. Hopefully this year.
JustinHawkins
Footballguy
I'm all in, both dynasty and redraft leagues. The blueprint is there, they know how to use him. He's physically more gifted than Harvin, it will be interesting to see how he progresses. Jennings loves him, his coaches do too. He's off to a good start IMO.
jurb26
Footballguy
Yeah, I'm all in as well. I made it a point to get him in both my dynasty leagues. I think he's going to outperform Austin this year and long term. He's got true WR1 potential that Austin simply doesn't have. Reports from Minn camp are raving about his ability. Got to love hearing that now that the pads are on. If you haven't already, get this guy now before the price inflates exponentially.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
Harvin wanted $$$$$$$$$$$$ImTheScientist said:
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Not that it should be any surprise to anyone who has been researching Patterson, but I think it is important to dispel this myth that Patterson is a body catcher. Everything I have seen with him he catches with his hands and has pretty nice hands at that. He made a beautiful one handed grab and another where he jump up for a high ball and catches it with his hands. in full contact he likely would get killed on that play and have a tough time trying to hold on to that one, but he caught it cleanly with his hands over his head. Bad throw, nice catch.
Patterson has a lot of work to do on his route running. That is going to take years to develop with him, however so far he shown good release from the LOS. He just needs to work on running his routes precisely which is something I am sure Jennings and others are focusing on teaching him.
Despite all of the positive spin Ponder is still struggling with bad throws, interceptions and even failing to throw the easy out route as well. So about the same as we have seen from him thus far.
Patterson has a lot of work to do on his route running. That is going to take years to develop with him, however so far he shown good release from the LOS. He just needs to work on running his routes precisely which is something I am sure Jennings and others are focusing on teaching him.
Despite all of the positive spin Ponder is still struggling with bad throws, interceptions and even failing to throw the easy out route as well. So about the same as we have seen from him thus far.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
very high on his prospects, i agree with many that austin and patterson are top two prospects... amazing that patterson might be as fast as austin, despite being about 30-40 Lbs heavier... bloom made good point that you have to like fact that they could already have built in package of plays hor the harvin-like patterson, as it had been in their play calling repertoire for years (get the ball in the hands of your incredibly dangerous and explosive in the open field WR - hand it to him, flip it to him, roll it to him if you need to, reverses, bubble screens, quick slants, etc.)... when i looked at him was expecting the worst as far as his hands and receiving ability... while he did look somewhat raw (about as good of a level of development as could be hoped for coming up through JUCO ranks), he looked like he should be just fine, which probably speaks to his athleticism...
one observation on the highlight clip below, just restricting comment to last two plays starting at approx. 7:20 mark, amazing display criss crossing nearly the entire width of the field and weaving his way through a handful of defenders in both cases... sometimes it almost seems like he is toying with the defense (as if he was showing off in a game of smear the queer with a geriatric ward), and seeing how far he can push the cutbacks and get to the other side of the field, even beating defenders that have an angle to the end zone... that could prove harder at the next level, against faster and quicker defenders, and sometimes he might be better served to get north/south as quickly as possible, in some cases taking what is there, instead of attempting to be a barry sanders of WRs and ankle breaking, human highlight film every play... along those lines, all it will take is breaking one open field tackle in some cases, and he will be gone, because he won't be caught from behind often...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjxkQXlCAfE
didn't attempt to verify, but i have heard times as as fast as 10.33 - 10.5 100 m. (teammate justin harper another one of top size/speed physical specimens and athletic prodigies in the nation - 10.5 100 m. at 6'4" 200 lbs, represented US in junior world championships in long jump ((VA state record 25'8")), 7'3" high jumper as prep, etc.), which is phenomenal for a 6'2" 215 lb. WR...
if he developes his WR craft to go with his ridiculous, tantalizing, off-the-charts athleticism/talent and supreme playmaking potential, he could be the next julio jones or demaryius thomas in a few years...
i realize some don't take it as a positive that ponder is his QB, but it didn't hold harvin back (who was on a league MVP pace first half of 2012 before injury), so it is unclear why it necessarily would for patterson?
big bonus is peterson coming off 2,000 yard season, the offense will face eight in the box constantly until the likes of jennings, rudolph and patterson make it painful for opposing defensive game plans to devote too much attention to run defense at expense of pass defense, so initially, and maybe for a while after that, he may never see double teams... if a safety is up in the box, respective CBs tasked with covering jennings and patterson can't BOTH have over the top help from a safety if they are split to opposite sides of the field, and routes stay split or cross each other...
one observation on the highlight clip below, just restricting comment to last two plays starting at approx. 7:20 mark, amazing display criss crossing nearly the entire width of the field and weaving his way through a handful of defenders in both cases... sometimes it almost seems like he is toying with the defense (as if he was showing off in a game of smear the queer with a geriatric ward), and seeing how far he can push the cutbacks and get to the other side of the field, even beating defenders that have an angle to the end zone... that could prove harder at the next level, against faster and quicker defenders, and sometimes he might be better served to get north/south as quickly as possible, in some cases taking what is there, instead of attempting to be a barry sanders of WRs and ankle breaking, human highlight film every play... along those lines, all it will take is breaking one open field tackle in some cases, and he will be gone, because he won't be caught from behind often...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjxkQXlCAfE
didn't attempt to verify, but i have heard times as as fast as 10.33 - 10.5 100 m. (teammate justin harper another one of top size/speed physical specimens and athletic prodigies in the nation - 10.5 100 m. at 6'4" 200 lbs, represented US in junior world championships in long jump ((VA state record 25'8")), 7'3" high jumper as prep, etc.), which is phenomenal for a 6'2" 215 lb. WR...
if he developes his WR craft to go with his ridiculous, tantalizing, off-the-charts athleticism/talent and supreme playmaking potential, he could be the next julio jones or demaryius thomas in a few years...
i realize some don't take it as a positive that ponder is his QB, but it didn't hold harvin back (who was on a league MVP pace first half of 2012 before injury), so it is unclear why it necessarily would for patterson?
big bonus is peterson coming off 2,000 yard season, the offense will face eight in the box constantly until the likes of jennings, rudolph and patterson make it painful for opposing defensive game plans to devote too much attention to run defense at expense of pass defense, so initially, and maybe for a while after that, he may never see double teams... if a safety is up in the box, respective CBs tasked with covering jennings and patterson can't BOTH have over the top help from a safety if they are split to opposite sides of the field, and routes stay split or cross each other...
JustinHawkins
Footballguy
I don't think he'll stay off the field very much come the regular season...
JustinHawkins
Footballguy
So anyone catch the Vikings game tonight? How did he look?
Abraham
Footballguy
JustinHawkins
Footballguy
Saw the kickoff highlight, he almost took it all the way. But the catches he had, how did he run the routes? Screens? any deep balls? etc?
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
I thought he looked really good. Got open on his routes and is more of a 'traditional' WR than Harvin, but with a similar skill set. Really excited about his potential!
VikingFrog
Footballguy
Pulp-Free O.J.
Footballguy
I was at the game and I saw a lot of potential from him! As for the return, the kicker did NOT stop him. He made a great cut and just tripped over his own feet. I think he was so amped up for the first play of his NFL career that he just got his feet caught up. Definitely NOT Bust Alert. As for his route running, I think he looked great. Much better than what I had heard about his route running coming onto the team when we drafted him. I am very excited to see him play this year!!!
VikingFrog
Footballguy
Gopher State
Footballguy
Vikings fans had to love what they saw of the rookie, fighting for the ball, breaking tackles. No doubt the kid was amped up and made some mistakes, but he looks like the real deal
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
i think patterson has as high or a higher ceiling than any WR in this class (imo former teammate hunter could ultimately have top 3-5-type talent in few years with development), or last year (blackmon, floyd, wright, etc.), possibly since AJ green and julio jones...JFS171 said:
they both came into the league with a more refined game, but patterson could be even more explosive and dangerous with the ball in his hands than green and jones...
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VikingFrog
Footballguy
Where is he being drafted right now?
Current ADP I looked up has him as WR#56
I'd like to get him as a Vikings fan, but wondering how long I can wait. I guess his preseason will have a large affect.
Current ADP I looked up has him as WR#56
I'd like to get him as a Vikings fan, but wondering how long I can wait. I guess his preseason will have a large affect.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
12.01 Bears, Chicago CHI Def 133.84 18 199 186
12.02 Rodgers, Jacquizz ATL RB 134.11 42 218 196
12.03 Hartline, Brian MIA WR 135.29 97 200 198
12.04 Cameron, Jordan CLE TE 135.38 21 238 192
12.05 Pead, Isaiah STL RB 135.59 96 197 183
12.06 Patterson, Cordarrelle MIN WR 135.66 7 204 204
12.07 Leshoure, Mikel DET RB 136.52 12 224 191
12.08 Eifert, Tyler CIN TE 137.12 5 196 182
12.09 Vick, Michael PHI QB 138.65 41 222 187
12.10 Davis, Fred WAS TE 144.66 65 191 177
12.11 Bradford, Sam STL QB 144.76 17 220 178
12.12 Bengals, Cincinnati CIN Def 145.77 43 206 172
He is likely going 9th-10th round moving forward if not higher. I could see taking him as high as 8th round as long as I got Williams already. Hopkins has been going between the 8th-9th round.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
in 2 rookie drafts I was able to get him at the 7 and 8 picks, i'm going to guess and say those days are about over
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
in redraft, probably depends on how wired in drafters are (hard to know sometimes)...
rookie WRs generally aren't coveted like rookie RBs, so not sure if he moves into 6th or significantly higher unless he really blows up in second and third preseason game (or if we get preseason announcement that he has supplanted jerome simpson and already ascended to starter status, which would come as somewhat of a surprise - but than again, maybe how good he has looked and how fast in early going has also probably been a surprise, and exceeded expectations?)...
austin and hopkins have more well defined immediate starter roles (among higher drafted first rounders), so that could help him fly under the radar and retain semi-sleeper status bit longer (unless your league in MIN, of course
)...
* i misread a post as being about redraft and not dynasty... patterson went pretty high in some of my drafts (as high as 1.2 in a dynasty PPR), but lower in others (maybe around 1.7? even some that were PPR)...
but, yeah, i absolutely agree with kelly's heroes his dynasty stock is no doubt surging right now... very possible he begins to go #1 overall more often in PPR formats (over austin and bernard)...
rookie WRs generally aren't coveted like rookie RBs, so not sure if he moves into 6th or significantly higher unless he really blows up in second and third preseason game (or if we get preseason announcement that he has supplanted jerome simpson and already ascended to starter status, which would come as somewhat of a surprise - but than again, maybe how good he has looked and how fast in early going has also probably been a surprise, and exceeded expectations?)...
austin and hopkins have more well defined immediate starter roles (among higher drafted first rounders), so that could help him fly under the radar and retain semi-sleeper status bit longer (unless your league in MIN, of course
)...* i misread a post as being about redraft and not dynasty... patterson went pretty high in some of my drafts (as high as 1.2 in a dynasty PPR), but lower in others (maybe around 1.7? even some that were PPR)...
but, yeah, i absolutely agree with kelly's heroes his dynasty stock is no doubt surging right now... very possible he begins to go #1 overall more often in PPR formats (over austin and bernard)...
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dickey moe
Fingerpicker
He fell to me at 1.08 in a rookie draft earlier this week. I was targeting Eifert at that spot but didn't think Cordarrelle would fall that far.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
When you think about it Patterson, Hopkins and Austin were all 1st round picks. Those RB were 2nd round picks.. and besides Gio and Bell they were late 2nd round picks...
Not that I don't understand the scarcity issue that leads to picks at RB and many teams may feel set at WR while they need an impact RB to make their team more competitive.
But If I am drafting these players in a start up? Bernard is about the only one I would really consider ahead of those 3 WR. This draft offers value picks at RB later as well, just not the kind that you can expect to start right away.
I am sure some of these RB will end up being very good but I doubt all of them justify being taken over these WR. The WR are safer picks.
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
Here are some other 1st round wide receivers you may remember:
David Terrell
Freddie Mitchell
Ashley Lelie
Bryant Johnson
Charles Rogers
Rashaun Woods
Reggie Williams
Matt Jones
Mike Williams
Troy Williamson
Ted Ginn
Craig Davis
edit: I drafted Patterson in my only rookie draft to date.
David Terrell
Freddie Mitchell
Ashley Lelie
Bryant Johnson
Charles Rogers
Rashaun Woods
Reggie Williams
Matt Jones
Mike Williams
Troy Williamson
Ted Ginn
Craig Davis
edit: I drafted Patterson in my only rookie draft to date.
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gianmarco
Footballguy
Ghost of Bill Walsh
Footballguy
I feel he's gonna make an immediate impact even with Jennings around and Ponder as his QB. His value would skyrocket if he had a QB that was more accomplished. Even with Ponder I think he's gonna post good #2 WR numbers. I picked him up off waivers in 4 espn leagues,so I'll gladly take a flier on him. If he hits he'll definitely make a lot of fantasy team owners happy.
