BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Chase Edmonds (whom I cut awhile ago) is back on our wire again. Trying to limit myself to one (nearly) worthless satelite back at a time.
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RB Nyheim Hines, CLE (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter grateful zed
- Start date
Chase Edmonds (whom I cut awhile ago) is back on our wire again. Trying to limit myself to one (nearly) worthless satelite back at a time.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I like Edmonds, drafted him and finally had to release him but i am optimistic he is going to look better in Denver, he just wasn't a good fit in McDaniel's offense.
Picked Hines over him just because of the offense and QB if Hines finds himself getting a few more touches than in Indy.
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
Both Singletary (dropped for Benjamin) and Hines available...only have 1 spot available, which to go with ROS?
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
Singletary. Easy.
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
Yea, that's what I figured. I picked up Devin just in case...Just wondering at what level does Hines reduce Devin's value ROS. Not much or significantly...Both are receiving backs. From what I've read so far, seems Hines will solely be COP and 3rd downs...maybe cutting more into Cook's value than Devin's.
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Devin has been getting most of the snaps for the last 14 games (incl playoffs), don't think that will change if he stays healthy
He's not the most efficient cat but he is a low key bell cow
LawFitz
Footballguy
Premature to assume anything regarding 2nd half of season workload. Would it really shock anyone if Hines steps in, out-performs Singletary and takes the 1A share of looks and touches ROS? To me, that's well within a reasonable range of outcomes here. I'm not a huge Singletary fan. In a vacuum, I think Hines is the better player. Curious to see how this actually plays out.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
yes it would
LawFitz
Footballguy
I'm not suggesting it'll happen this weekend, but over the next few weeks. Will be interesting to watch it play out.
nittanylion
Footballguy
Interesting listen on Sirius/XM Fantasy Life...Dwain McFarland segment, talked about what makes Hines special.
I respect Dwain McFarland as much or more than any elite FF Analyst I regularly read.
There are 2 types of pass catching RB's, the typical kind, say 90% of them, run primarily check downs, dump offs, outlets, screens, etc. Singletary can catch the football, he's not a liability at that skill, it's just that he's one of these typical guys
The other type, those who carry the 'elite' label, are capable of being actual downfield threats, and are capable of being a qb's primary read in a pattern progression, having pass plays specifically designed to go to them. He's got some kind of a metric, '8 aught'? ... I didn't hear that clearly and didn't hear it explained, but apparently it's ridiculous.
ETA: ***now that I think of it, maybe he was saying 'ADoT (Average Depth of Target)'? That would make sense. '8 aught'...
...forgive me, I was listening while driving.
McFarland was saying that qb's in general, on average, throw to their primary read on a play, around 70% of the time.
He said that much as everyone loves Gabe Davis, neither he, nor any of the other Buffalo pass catchers, earn or DEMAND targets the way Diggs does. Not one of them is stepping up and convincing the coaches or Josh Allen to include them more in the passing offense than they already are. Diggs is Allen's primary read on pretty much every pass play. Apparently they were getting tired of that. Hines is a legit threat that earns/demands targets in an area of the field that Diggs does not. He expects Hines to quickly become the Bills primary slot receiver, and be heavily involved in the passing game right away, at the expense of the other pass-catchers, not necessarily Singletary, who will remain the team's primary RB.
McFarland guessed that at times, when Allen drops back to throw, he might see Singletary in a check down/dump off, what have you, area, and just think to himself "I can throw it to that guy for whatever...or I can just run for 25 yards." ... and much of the time, he does exactly that.
Hines is definitely not as elite a rusher as he is a receiver. I think there was a perception he was capable of filling a 3-down role if something happened to JT, but when that plan had to be implemented, we wound up seeing Lindsay employed, and the ascent of Deon Jackson. Singletary is a better rusher than Hines. Allen vultures rushing attempts/yards from Singletary, but Singletary is a good RB, and does a pretty good job of getting as much or more out of every play where his number is called. The Bills are happy with the job he's doing in his role. Hines might get a carry here and there to keep the D honest, much as Singletary will get a catch or two, for the same reason.
I think McFarland compared the Hines acquisition to when the Bills brought in Emmanuel Sanders.
I think we're going to see a lot of Singletary and Hines on the field at the same time, with Hines either lining up, or motioning into, the slot. If he pans out like the Bills expect him to, Singletary won't catch as many balls, but neither will the other pass catchers.
I respect Dwain McFarland as much or more than any elite FF Analyst I regularly read.
There are 2 types of pass catching RB's, the typical kind, say 90% of them, run primarily check downs, dump offs, outlets, screens, etc. Singletary can catch the football, he's not a liability at that skill, it's just that he's one of these typical guys
The other type, those who carry the 'elite' label, are capable of being actual downfield threats, and are capable of being a qb's primary read in a pattern progression, having pass plays specifically designed to go to them. He's got some kind of a metric, '8 aught'? ... I didn't hear that clearly and didn't hear it explained, but apparently it's ridiculous.
ETA: ***now that I think of it, maybe he was saying 'ADoT (Average Depth of Target)'? That would make sense. '8 aught'...
...forgive me, I was listening while driving.McFarland was saying that qb's in general, on average, throw to their primary read on a play, around 70% of the time.
He said that much as everyone loves Gabe Davis, neither he, nor any of the other Buffalo pass catchers, earn or DEMAND targets the way Diggs does. Not one of them is stepping up and convincing the coaches or Josh Allen to include them more in the passing offense than they already are. Diggs is Allen's primary read on pretty much every pass play. Apparently they were getting tired of that. Hines is a legit threat that earns/demands targets in an area of the field that Diggs does not. He expects Hines to quickly become the Bills primary slot receiver, and be heavily involved in the passing game right away, at the expense of the other pass-catchers, not necessarily Singletary, who will remain the team's primary RB.
McFarland guessed that at times, when Allen drops back to throw, he might see Singletary in a check down/dump off, what have you, area, and just think to himself "I can throw it to that guy for whatever...or I can just run for 25 yards." ... and much of the time, he does exactly that.
Hines is definitely not as elite a rusher as he is a receiver. I think there was a perception he was capable of filling a 3-down role if something happened to JT, but when that plan had to be implemented, we wound up seeing Lindsay employed, and the ascent of Deon Jackson. Singletary is a better rusher than Hines. Allen vultures rushing attempts/yards from Singletary, but Singletary is a good RB, and does a pretty good job of getting as much or more out of every play where his number is called. The Bills are happy with the job he's doing in his role. Hines might get a carry here and there to keep the D honest, much as Singletary will get a catch or two, for the same reason.
I think McFarland compared the Hines acquisition to when the Bills brought in Emmanuel Sanders.
I think we're going to see a lot of Singletary and Hines on the field at the same time, with Hines either lining up, or motioning into, the slot. If he pans out like the Bills expect him to, Singletary won't catch as many balls, but neither will the other pass catchers.
Neither Cook or Hines are built to run in between the tackles. They are not early down backs.
Interesting listen on Sirius/XM Fantasy Life...Dwain McFarland segment, talked about what makes Hines special.
I respect Dwain McFarland as much or more than any elite FF Analyst I regularly read.
There are 2 types of pass catching RB's, the typical kind, say 90% of them, run primarily check downs, dump offs, outlets, screens, etc. Singletary can catch the football, he's not a liability at that skill, it's just that he's one of these typical guys
The other type, those who carry the 'elite' label, are capable of being actual downfield threats, and are capable of being a qb's primary read in a pattern progression, having pass plays specifically designed to go to them. He's got some kind of a metric, '8 aught'? ... I didn't hear that clearly and didn't hear it explained, but apparently it's ridiculous.
ETA: ***now that I think of it, maybe he was saying 'ADoT (Average Depth of Target)'? That would make sense. '8 aught'...
McFarland was saying that qb's in general, on average, throw to their primary read on a play, around 70% of the time.
He said that much as everyone loves Gabe Davis, neither he, nor any of the other Buffalo pass catchers, earn or DEMAND targets the way Diggs does. Not one of them is stepping up and convincing the coaches or Josh Allen to include them more in the passing offense than they already are. Diggs is Allen's primary read on pretty much every pass play. Apparently they were getting tired of that. Hines is a legit threat that earns/demands targets in an area of the field that Diggs does not. He expects Hines to quickly become the Bills primary slot receiver, and be heavily involved in the passing game right away, at the expense of the other pass-catchers, not necessarily Singletary, who will remain the team's primary RB.
McFarland guessed that at times, when Allen drops back to throw, he might see Singletary in a check down/dump off, what have you, area, and just think to himself "I can throw it to that guy for whatever...or I can just run for 25 yards." ... and much of the time, he does exactly that.
Hines is definitely not as elite a rusher as he is a receiver. I think there was a perception he was capable of filling a 3-down role if something happened to JT, but when that plan had to be implemented, we wound up seeing Lindsay employed, and the ascent of Deon Jackson. Singletary is a better rusher than Hines. Allen vultures rushing attempts/yards from Singletary, but Singletary is a good RB, and does a pretty good job of getting as much or more out of every play where his number is called. The Bills are happy with the job he's doing in his role. Hines might get a carry here and there to keep the D honest, much as Singletary will get a catch or two, for the same reason.
I think McFarland compared the Hines acquisition to when the Bills brought in Emmanuel Sanders.
I think we're going to see a lot of Singletary and Hines on the field at the same time, with Hines either lining up, or motioning into, the slot. If he pans out like the Bills expect him to, Singletary won't catch as many balls, but neither will the other pass catchers.
Fantastic analysis.
Tau837
Footballguy
Interesting listen on Sirius/XM Fantasy Life...Dwain McFarland segment, talked about what makes Hines special.
I respect Dwain McFarland as much or more than any elite FF Analyst I regularly read.
There are 2 types of pass catching RB's, the typical kind, say 90% of them, run primarily check downs, dump offs, outlets, screens, etc. Singletary can catch the football, he's not a liability at that skill, it's just that he's one of these typical guys
The other type, those who carry the 'elite' label, are capable of being actual downfield threats, and are capable of being a qb's primary read in a pattern progression, having pass plays specifically designed to go to them. He's got some kind of a metric, '8 aught'? ... I didn't hear that clearly and didn't hear it explained, but apparently it's ridiculous.
ETA: ***now that I think of it, maybe he was saying 'ADoT (Average Depth of Target)'? That would make sense. '8 aught'...
McFarland was saying that qb's in general, on average, throw to their primary read on a play, around 70% of the time.
He said that much as everyone loves Gabe Davis, neither he, nor any of the other Buffalo pass catchers, earn or DEMAND targets the way Diggs does. Not one of them is stepping up and convincing the coaches or Josh Allen to include them more in the passing offense than they already are. Diggs is Allen's primary read on pretty much every pass play. Apparently they were getting tired of that. Hines is a legit threat that earns/demands targets in an area of the field that Diggs does not. He expects Hines to quickly become the Bills primary slot receiver, and be heavily involved in the passing game right away, at the expense of the other pass-catchers, not necessarily Singletary, who will remain the team's primary RB.
McFarland guessed that at times, when Allen drops back to throw, he might see Singletary in a check down/dump off, what have you, area, and just think to himself "I can throw it to that guy for whatever...or I can just run for 25 yards." ... and much of the time, he does exactly that.
Hines is definitely not as elite a rusher as he is a receiver. I think there was a perception he was capable of filling a 3-down role if something happened to JT, but when that plan had to be implemented, we wound up seeing Lindsay employed, and the ascent of Deon Jackson. Singletary is a better rusher than Hines. Allen vultures rushing attempts/yards from Singletary, but Singletary is a good RB, and does a pretty good job of getting as much or more out of every play where his number is called. The Bills are happy with the job he's doing in his role. Hines might get a carry here and there to keep the D honest, much as Singletary will get a catch or two, for the same reason.
I think McFarland compared the Hines acquisition to when the Bills brought in Emmanuel Sanders.
I think we're going to see a lot of Singletary and Hines on the field at the same time, with Hines either lining up, or motioning into, the slot. If he pans out like the Bills expect him to, Singletary won't catch as many balls, but neither will the other pass catchers.
Fantastic analysis.
I will add in case there are some who aren't aware, Hines played WR his first two seasons in college at NC State (redshirt and RS-FR) before moving to RB for his final two seasons. He had 20/256/1 (12.8 ypr) receiving as a R-FR, then 43/525/0 (12.2 ypr) receiving as a passing down RB as a R-SO. He became the primary RB as a R-JR, so his receiving production slipped to 26/152/0 (5.8 ypr)... though he had 197/1113/12 (5.6 ypc) rushing.
The fact that he was a WR his first two college seasons supports the idea that he is better than a typical pass catching RB.
themeistersinger
Footballguy
Totally true up to now - which is why the Bills want a pass catching back so bad. They want to cut down on Josh taking it himself. It will take time to train Josh to do the dump off, but that is definitely what the coaches prefer him to do, assuming that those types of plays are actually successful.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
I'm not sure I buy that at all. Bills RBs have a decent number of receptions this year and I would bet 90%+ were dump offs/check-downs/screens. I'm sure there were a few others, but the only one that comes to mind as a designed downfield pass was the one to Cooks against the Packers.
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
General consensus on better or worst or about the same scoring opportunities (Rush yds//Rush TDs/Rec yards/Rec TDs) per game overall going forward in comparison to his numbers in INDY this season so far?
So far...RUSH: 14 carry/34 yds/ 1 TD REC: 23 targets/ 20 Rec/ 147 yds/0 TDs
So far...RUSH: 14 carry/34 yds/ 1 TD REC: 23 targets/ 20 Rec/ 147 yds/0 TDs
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
This mirrors a lot of hat I was thinking when I picked up Hines immediately on the trade news/rumor on Deadline TuesdayInteresting listen on Sirius/XM Fantasy Life...Dwain McFarland segment, talked about what makes Hines special.
I respect Dwain McFarland as much or more than any elite FF Analyst I regularly read.
There are 2 types of pass catching RB's, the typical kind, say 90% of them, run primarily check downs, dump offs, outlets, screens, etc. Singletary can catch the football, he's not a liability at that skill, it's just that he's one of these typical guys
The other type, those who carry the 'elite' label, are capable of being actual downfield threats, and are capable of being a qb's primary read in a pattern progression, having pass plays specifically designed to go to them. He's got some kind of a metric, '8 aught'? ... I didn't hear that clearly and didn't hear it explained, but apparently it's ridiculous.
ETA: ***now that I think of it, maybe he was saying 'ADoT (Average Depth of Target)'? That would make sense. '8 aught'...
McFarland was saying that qb's in general, on average, throw to their primary read on a play, around 70% of the time.
He said that much as everyone loves Gabe Davis, neither he, nor any of the other Buffalo pass catchers, earn or DEMAND targets the way Diggs does. Not one of them is stepping up and convincing the coaches or Josh Allen to include them more in the passing offense than they already are. Diggs is Allen's primary read on pretty much every pass play. Apparently they were getting tired of that. Hines is a legit threat that earns/demands targets in an area of the field that Diggs does not. He expects Hines to quickly become the Bills primary slot receiver, and be heavily involved in the passing game right away, at the expense of the other pass-catchers, not necessarily Singletary, who will remain the team's primary RB.
McFarland guessed that at times, when Allen drops back to throw, he might see Singletary in a check down/dump off, what have you, area, and just think to himself "I can throw it to that guy for whatever...or I can just run for 25 yards." ... and much of the time, he does exactly that.
Hines is definitely not as elite a rusher as he is a receiver. I think there was a perception he was capable of filling a 3-down role if something happened to JT, but when that plan had to be implemented, we wound up seeing Lindsay employed, and the ascent of Deon Jackson. Singletary is a better rusher than Hines. Allen vultures rushing attempts/yards from Singletary, but Singletary is a good RB, and does a pretty good job of getting as much or more out of every play where his number is called. The Bills are happy with the job he's doing in his role. Hines might get a carry here and there to keep the D honest, much as Singletary will get a catch or two, for the same reason.
I think McFarland compared the Hines acquisition to when the Bills brought in Emmanuel Sanders.
I think we're going to see a lot of Singletary and Hines on the field at the same time, with Hines either lining up, or motioning into, the slot. If he pans out like the Bills expect him to, Singletary won't catch as many balls, but neither will the other pass catchers.
-I don't see any of the Bills pass catchers after Diggs really do much to demand the football. They all produce when thrown to but they mostly just wait for their turn and some of the Buffalo WRs after Diggs just disappear from the stat box. I think Hines has a solid chance to be like JD McKissic when they were actually utilizing him in Washington and maybe he's a lot better than that.
I don't know where Hines can go but in the slot he could easily hit double digits and be a flex option many weeks even without any carries.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
2018 and 2020 he managed to collect 63 balls each season.
In 2020, he totaled 862 total yds and 7TDs
I will take the over or side with him IMPROVING the 2nd Half of 2022 with a potent offense.
Might take a week
Might take a WR/RB being unavailable
But he's going to trigger folks memories of when his name was kicked around as a flex option.
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
ahartig
Footballguy
Matt Parrino
@MattParrino
Duke Johnson and Xavier Rhodes have been elevated off the practice squad for tomorrow’s game vs Vikings. Johnson could return punts and allow Nyheim Hines to focus on offense. Rhodes coming up could mean maybe no Tre White yet or just wanting numbers with Kaiir Elam doubtful
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
You would think
5 snaps, same as Duke Johnson
(Singletary 51 Cook 13)
1 target for 1 catch 9 yards
that’s his only target in two weeks, zero attempts, 43 yards punt returns (18+25)
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Week 11 v CLE
1 attempt (-8) yards
1 target 0 catches
3 PR 76 yards
2 KR 37 yards
1 attempt (-8) yards
1 target 0 catches
3 PR 76 yards
2 KR 37 yards
sushinsky4tsar
Footballguy
In fairness, he did have 2 kickoff return TDs in a game that secured the 2-seed and what could have been a neutral field AFC Conference Championship game.
I was surprised that he didn't get used more in the offense. I was really happy to get him as a throw-in on an offseason trade. Obviously, that was a whiff. I dropped him during the dynasty season but scooped him for the offseseason. I want to see what happens with him and Singletary, even with Cook there and what one would assume is the addition of a thumper.
I was surprised that he didn't get used more in the offense. I was really happy to get him as a throw-in on an offseason trade. Obviously, that was a whiff. I dropped him during the dynasty season but scooped him for the offseseason. I want to see what happens with him and Singletary, even with Cook there and what one would assume is the addition of a thumper.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
More from a FF standpoint than an actual football standpoint.
He was a great kick returner, and he converted a couple of clutch 3rd downs.
For what the Bills needed him to do, he wasn’t bad.
But it destroyed his FF relevance for sure.
He had one great game as a kick returner, outside of that he wasn't "great". On offense he was non-existent, he literally had negative rushing yards and converted a grand total of 2 3rd downs (both receiving), including the post season.
Total flop.
Its really baffling too. Hines should have been an excellent fit in Buffalo, more explosive than Singletary, and more experienced than Cook, and he never made a dent in either of their workloads.
I thought it was realistic after the trade, that he'd be the starting RB by the playoffs, instead he was arguably a downgrade from Zack Moss, who actually had some nice games for the Colts.
There is some question in my mind, if Buffalo just sucks at using RBs. That's pretty much the hope for Hines dynasty owners right now.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I just kinda thought he’d be a peripheral player. I sold “high” on the heels of that trade because I thought he was one more body to muck up a crowded backfield.
INDY really wanted to make him a receiving specialist, but with QB play, and IIRC an injury, he never lived up to the preseason hype.
I dealt Bourne for Hines, then flipped Hines for Heineke, then flipped Heineke for a what turned out to be 3.02 in a 16-team league.
I’ll take it.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Hines suffered a significant knee injury off site and will be out for the season.
I think Harris going to flourish in this offense.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Full blown RBBC most likely. Just hoping Allen lets his RBs be the running threat in the red zone.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Hines barely touched the ball last year, and he was firmly behind Cook and Harris on the depth chart. This hurts the Bills because it cuts into their RB depth and costs them a really good kick returner. I don't know that it changes anything from a fantasy standpoint.
nittanylion
Footballguy
Bills - please DO NOT bring in James' brother or Kareem Hunt. TIA.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Hines barely saw touches outside of special teams - so I doubt the team feels it needs to run out and add to the RB depth because they lost Hines.
They have Latavius Murray too, and he has a long history of being a lot bigger factor than expected. Its really not out of the question that he ends up being Buffalo's leading rusher this season, though obviously its not plan A.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
That’s a bad break for him - hope he heals up well enough to get another contract.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
The beat reporters are limited in what details they are allowed to discuss when they observe mini-camps, practices, etc. But without saying as much, most of the ones I have listened to are making it pretty clear that James Cook is the #1 and everything after that is up in the air. That doesn’t mean that Cook will get used like McCaffery, Henry, or someone like that, but it seems from early indications, that he is the clear favorite right now.
As a former jet ski owner, not surprising at all. Surprised it doesn't happen more. A lot of idiots driving these "water motorcycles"
-OZ-
Footballguy
Does Shakir play more ST with Hines out?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Seems like a good guess.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Signing of Nyheim Hines looks brilliants after new kickoff rules
Nyheim ranks 3rd in highest average kickoff returns over past three years.
Nyheim ranks 3rd in highest average kickoff returns over past three years.
Tau837
Footballguy
I don't think everyone is realizing yet that the new kickoff rules are so different that the successful skill sets will be different than in the past. The fact that Hines has had high kickoff averages in the past doesn't necessarily mean much in a completely different ruleset.
