Monty is not a JAG. This is a bad take. Monty has been a solid, hard nosed RB in the NFL for several years now. This will be a 50/50 split or even 60/40 in Monty's direction.
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RB Jahmyr Gibbs, DET (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Dizzy
Footballguy
You could see where Monty is used to deliver body blows early on, then Gibbs takes over as defense starts to soften. Game script will play a role of course - if Lions are playing from behind it will be all Gibbs. In a close-out situation it would be Monty or maybe Monty/Reynolds mix.
Detroit will soon find themselves in the envious role of having too many emerging stars for the amount of touches to go around. Especially if Williams ever wakes up at WR.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
I think this idea that if u think Gibbs is good then Monty must be bad or Monty is good then Gibbs is bad is silly. They are both really good rbs that bring completely different things to an offense. Monty is tough and beats up a defense. He runs hard which is why he is always banged up. Gibbs is electric in space. Get a little creative and he can be a game winner. As a head coach, Campbell must be thrilled when these two guys are both active. The split? Personally, when both are active, even after last night I still see Monty as the lead guy in a closer 55/45 split. He just represents that tough grind Lions seem like they want on offense. These two create a good problem. No workhorse usage in this backfield. All my opinion and I reserve the right to change my opinion at any moment.
JAG might be strong but let’s not pretend he’s ever been close to elite. Only had one season prior to this year where he was above 4 ypc. This year he was just slightly over at 4.1.
And let’s be honest, he was being massively buoyed by tds so far this year. He had hit pay dirt 6 times in four games. Not to mention very little involvement in the pass game(6 catches).
Proteus
Footballguy
TartanLion
Footballguy
Someone gets it. The overall point that is. Could still see some increased touches for Gibbs going forward stealing some from Monty and maybe some targets added on as well
And the Lions run the ball inside the 10 more than anyone.
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Big Nate
Footballguy
Why would someone trade Gibbs for Adams? Yikes. Adams has been trending down for weeks and the QB situation sucks. Gibbs has been trending up and starting to get comfortable in the NFL.
Rookies take some time people. Why is everyone so impatient? Kids these days....
Dizzy
Footballguy
These last two weeks were really critical to get Gibbs fully integrated into this offense and see what he can do with enough touches to establish a rhythm. Also, from what I saw last night, the screen game needs some work. The potential is there for game-breakers, but still a work in progress IMO. Could be a great stretch run for pateint Gibbs owners.
I think it will be close to a 50/50 split, but both will be startable especially in good matchups.
Monty will continue to be the grinder, soften up the D, get most of the GL carries.
Gibbs will be sprinkled in on the ground to keep the D off balance, much greater PPR potential, and will be a homerun threat in the 2nd half after Monty has softened them up.
No way you can put the genie back in the bottle after last night. Gibbs has game breaking ability every time he touches the ball. I'd think over the bye week, the coaches are going to be drooling over what they can do with both of them in the backfield.
You guys are funny...one good game against a defense and team that barely showed up
Wait I’m going to need some clarification. Is this excuse for last week against Baltimore when he scored 27.6 PPR points or is it for this week when he scored 32?
How high does the defense that he’s playing for the week have to be ranked for him to get credit for a good performance?
I just want to make sure all the criteria is explained.
Look your just posting to be a d$ck and I'm not taking the thread there
I own the guy in 3 leagues...i hope he works out. In fact he better work out but there isn't much about the last two weeks that makes me excited. Monty will be back after the bye but I would have loved to have see him play a 3rd game to get the extra data point.
JAG isn't a bad take it's just the truth. He has only had one 1000 yard season in 4 years as the starter in Chicago. 1000 yards in a 16 game season is averaging 62 yards rushing a game. In a 17 game season it's 58 yards rushing a game. And absolutely agree that he has been under 4 yards a carry for most of his career, which is what refers to what I am talking about.
Monty definitely was not with the best organization (Bears and Panthers are garbage franchises currently) I'll give him that, but he has struggled with his health including this year over the past 3 years now. I absolutely think the Lions will use him like that used Craig Reynolds last night, but you'd have to be completely "boneheaded" to not give Gibbs atleast 10-15 carries and 15-20 total opportunities a game after what he has shown the past couple of games. The comparisons to Tiki Barber and Kamara are spot on for a reason. The crazy part is that Gibbs is more explosive than both of those guys.
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Big Nate
Footballguy
Salty Monty owner.Salty Gibbs owner alert!!
Is this how it works? People saying Gibbs sucks, then he's JAG. Then when I bring up the point that DET is in need of playmakers it gets thrown around that he's at best #4 on the playmaker list.
Gibbs is going to continue to earn more time and more targets. It may very well be a split back field but the upside and play making ability of Gibbs will ensure he still gets his touches. Gibbs 30 yard TD run that started between the tackles was a thing of beauty. Gibbs is also showing great in the passing game with lots of YAC. Check out some of these runs in the clips below.
Do Your Homework on Jahmyr Gibbs
Watch the best plays from Detroit Lions running back Jahmyr Gibbs' 189-yard game vs. the Las Vegas Raiders from Week 8 of the 2023 NFL season.Watch live loca...
www.youtube.com
Saying Gibbs is good and a big playmaker takes nothing away from Monty. Monty is a very good back in his own right. He's good at what he does and he does a lot of things well. The difference with Gibbs is he is a true playmaker. Going to be hard for DET to keep Gibbs from getting his touches each week if he is healthy.
Side note - if you are a Gibbs owner maybe now is the time to kick the tires on acquiring Monty.... Buy window on Monty is now open.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
This idea that noooooooow the Lions know what they have on Gibbs is silly also. They used a 1st round pick on him. I'm pretty sure they knew or felt like they knew then. Id bet the past two games is what they have been expecting.
He's had two exceptional games in a row scoring 27.6 and 29.9 PPR points in those games respectively. I'm not sure what more you need to see.
I don't think many have the luxury of seeing a "third data point."
Over the next six weeks, DET also faces the following Run Ds: Chicago (2x), GB, and DEN.
I like his chances of contributing down the stretch here.
Honestly, I wonder what Bijan owners think about Gibbs' performance the last two weeks? Here's a guy that was universally drafted top 8 and has scored less than 13 PPT points in 5 of the last six games, has to share the rock, and doesn't get goal line carries.
Salty Gibbs owner alert!!
Side note - if you are a Gibbs owner maybe now is the time to kick the tires on acquiring Monty.... Buy window on Monty is now open.
I actually did the reverse. Drafted Monty late. Just prior to Gibbs hurting his hammy I secured him for Doubs/J. Warren.
I wanted this DET backfield.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
Yep. I will say the 3rd data pont is do the Lions believe they can continue to give him 20 touches a game. If they do and he hold up physically dudes a top 10 pick next year.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Yes, one of the few times I'd like to have both backs. Goff rarely runs and if one back goes down the other goes up in value.
Agreed
With Monty back i don't think he will see the 20 carry threshold but we shall see. That performance last night by the raiders was absolutely pathetic as well.
Scoresman
Footballguy
They knew what Gibbs had when they drafted him, but they also know that they spent millions on Montgomery this year. They wouldn't do that without the intention to heavily use him. This was the biggest red flag IMO in drafting Gibbs so early. It will at best be a 50/50 split when both are healthy. It's a win/win for the Lions, not so much for everyone's fantasy teams.
From a fantasy perspective that's great but I'm not willing to ignore the fact that from a talent perspective, the one game was all garbage time.
Detroit this year has the softest schedule I've ever seen and they exist in a division that might be the worst division ever. That's certainly a benefit but Monty will certainly feast as well
What's happening in Atl is pathetic...hard to understand what's happening there. Draft the guy that high and not even use him
Rookiefever
Footballguy
Man… I never expected the lions rb room would get so many peoples panties in a bunch. The simple fact here is the lions have two really good 3 down rbs. Yes , you read that right. They are geared quite different so it’s going to vary week to week on who sees what usage. Reynolds usage last night was a great indicator. This team is great for ff. Be happy you have a piece of it!
Big Nate
Footballguy
I think both Monty and Gibbs can return good fantasy value going forward. They use the RB position enough to get touches for both guys. There might be times when Monty gets the goal line work and punches in a TD or 2. There will be times where Gibbs gets 12-14 touches and busts a long 30-40 yarder for a TD.
They do cap each others ceiling but with Gibbs passing game work definitely adds to his game overall. In games where Monty was active Gibbs still got 9 and 5 targets and that was early in the season.
Big Nate
Footballguy
I assume he will probably be back after the bye. He wasn't on IR IIRC so after the bye is my best guess.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Let's see where we are Week 12/13
Jr had a deep team and is way ahead in his standings.
Monty will return and when he does I promise you Gibbs stock will dip HARD
Now is the time to move him in Redraft '23 IMHO
In about 2-4 weeks we are going to hear a lot of bellyaching IMHO
Agree on surface Nate but some folks are more concerned about end game
-You really think Adams is going to sit quietly and play along with this?
"I didn't come here to hang out" and the Raiders don't seem interested in trading him
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Removing position need I'd rather have Adams for the ROS.
Big Nate
Footballguy
No doubt Adams is pissed. I would be too. he is way to talented for what is going on there. Having said that, his situation isn't getting better unless he is traded. Adams has a right to complain but that won't make Jimmy G a better QB.
As for rookies, they usually get better as the season goes on. Gibbs is already looking better than he did in weeks 1-4 where he was rushing things and looking a bit to jittery. He's looking more relaxed now and trusting the O-line. He's running much better between the tackles now making defenders miss in tight spaces.
I do agree with those that say Monty coming back will changes the snaps and touches for sure. I think both Gibbs and Monty would break down (like monty did) if they get 25+ touches a game. If they both got 13-15 touches a game they can keep each other fresh. I do feel Gibbs can perform with 10 carries and 5-6 targets per game.
Dizzy
Footballguy
In 2-4 weeks Monty will be hurt again.
Dizzy
Footballguy
Fully with you here. You could see the patience and then the burst last night.
He was like Flubber out there the first few weeks.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Key points in my Original Post
-First, I apologized for going bonkers over Gibbs doing well in the 2nd Half of a blowout, empty calories
-2nd, I said I wish I had Jr's confidence
-Finally, I really feel when Monty returns, the wonderful vibe everyone got on Gibbs last night, 2nd half of the Ravens blowout, that's gonna fade quick and hard IMHO
I loved what Gibbs did last night, looks like a potential stud in the making but you gotta give to get and Adams has a track record that is long and speaks for itself where as Gibbs hasn't done enough when he is forced into the CoP RB, yes he got to feast last night, BECAUSE MONTY is OUT
As I have stressed, there is a major blind spot for Gibbs investors and trust me, I have Gibbs on almost every redraft roster I have, I'm the guy that grabbed him at the end of the 3rd or early 4th as often as I could grab him. But I didn't realize that Monty's 3yr/$20M deal needs to be factored in here and Coach DC truly trusts Monty. I watched that coach sound distraught when he said Monty would miss some time
That's just my .02 about it, good luck Nate if you feel 180 from what I am laying out
And I appreciate the post back, gives me another opportunity to explain why I feel or think the way I do
Cheers my friend
Go PHINS!
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Dude finally went off and I still lost
Judge Smails
Footballguy
Yeah he’s talented. No doubt. But I wouldn’t get too caught up in production vs the Raiders. Everyone looked all world last night. Unless you think Craig Reynolds is elite too
Dizzy
Footballguy
Jameson Williams says, "thank you" for this.
bj diggy
Footballguy
This brings me back to the adrian peterson/chester taylor thread from years ago. Ultimately, as we know, talent won out and AP is a hall of famer. (just to clarify, monty is chester taylor in this scenario). Both will be very good this year, both will produce. Ultimately, whether later this year, or next year...
Dude looked like sonic the hedgehog gobbling up coins last night..he is the real deal, like it or not
Dude looked like sonic the hedgehog gobbling up coins last night..he is the real deal, like it or not
Good stuff
So last week he only did well because it was garbage time against the Ravens. This week its because the Raider's defense is really bad??? Which one is it? It's because Gibbs has star potential. The dude runs 23 mph at max speed. Thaty's Tyreek Hill speed
For me it's less about the performance in either of those games. The talent is there, but it is more about the fact that he got 30 touches, and looked unstoppable. The big knock on him all off-season was that he is not going to touch the ball more than 15x because he is too small. Otherwise it's just been about opportunity. There is no way things go back to how they were early on with Montgomery with the Lions have seen more of what they have with Gibbs now
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eighsse2
Footballguy
Not trying to make this the "eighsse's personal trade advice thread" but I'm really considering accepting this at this point. I hate losing Wilson but I may be able to flip picks. Should I jump off the plane with my shiny new Gibbs brand parachute or let Captain Wilson bring this thing down safely? This is a big one ... 12-team dynasty PPR, 1/2/2/0/1, yardage bonus yada yada ....
ETA: Have Hurts, Bijan, Etienne, Swift, AJ Brown, Lamb, Dotson, Godwin
Biabreakable
Footballguy
My previous comments were meant from a perspective where my team is strong which is where I want to be.
Based on what you say you have your team looks strong. Very strong in fact and I don't see how those depth RB are actually helping you right now. You have better options.
In your position the way to make your team better is by adding stars and Gibbs certainly looks to be that. He is a RB who may be better than some of your already strong group and can start for you now. That's what you want.
Wilson is a nice player but does not have a good QB. I don't see moving him as a huge loss to your lineup that has other quality WR besides him.
I don't know how deep your league rosters are but freeing up 4 spots allows you to pick up free agent prospects which is basically what those depth RB are to you right now anyways. Your not starting them.
You can always use the picks to buy other players to improve your team if you don't want to use them on rookies next season.
This is exactly how you grind value and keep your team perpetually in a strong position by making deals like what has been offered you.
Not sure what you are hemming and hawing about.
eighsse2
Footballguy
I hope it doesn't sound like I'm arguing or trying to convince you of anything. It's truth I'm after, not proliferating my own opinion. But 8 years from now, do you think anyone who's had Garrett Wilson the whole time even thinks about "the Zach Wilson era"? I feel like that will look like a blip on his career. But I do feel I could flip picks for a good receiver ... I just don't like dismissing a young elite(?) WR due to his current QB.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
The problem is before the Zach Wilson era it was the Sam Darnold era and the bad Geno Smith era and the Mark Sanchez era and it's just been a real struggle for NYJ to find some quality QB play.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
No your point is valid and Wilson looks like a young star WR who is producing despite the lack of good QB play.
In a vacuum I do value the WR a bit more than RB because of the longevity of the position by comparison and how you have more time for situation to improve.
You want the core of your team to be WRs more than RB for the long term health and strength of your team.
That said RBs need to be replaced more often than WR do.
In a macro view of roster management in dynasty you try to keep the strength of your WR core as strong as possible and the RBs are the last piece of the roster to address once that has been established.
I can see why your trade partner wants to do the deal too, as this improves that team's WR core and adds depth with quality RB prospects that are young and could pan out. If their roster is weaker in terms of competing right now this is what you do. Improve the depth of your assets since a player like Gibbs is the last piece of that puzzle.
I disagree with them offering you their draft picks in this situation but that's their decision. It seems like a move playing for next season more than this one and from that point of view Gibbs maybe Hurts them by helping them win more games.
Anyhow I think the deal is fair, I just prefer the Gibbs side of it for a team that's contending and that's where I always want my team to be.
