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Otis fad diet thread — yoga, fasting, and kevzilla walking on🚶‍♂️ (7 Viewers)

AAABatteries said:
Maybe a cushioned seat cover or put a towel down?
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Thought occurred to me. Actually just went on amazon and it turns out this must be a common complaint because they sell a bunch of seat cushions, picked one up, will arrive tomorrow, just in time for my next 10k attempt!

 
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By the way, my knee is totally healed up. Feels 100%. So we know the rowing won’t aggravate it which is great news. Once this challenge is over I’ll start figuring out how to rotate the two; also want to work lifting back in 2 days a week. Maybe 2 runs, 2 rows, 2 upper body lifts each week. 

 
Otis said:
Damn, nice.  I'm so out of shape.

What's your S/M?  I'm going really slow.  My muscle memory is telling me to be really slow on the release, and I've been in the 20 range.  I read an optimal stroke rate is more like 25-30.  I have long legs, that's tricky for me.
Click to expand...
Yesterday was 30/31 for the 2 minute intervals. For like a 5K it's generally in the 26-28 range. That said, my technique has been honed solely by watching youtube videos so there is a high chance I'm doing it wrong. That said, I'm 6'6" so I'm not 100% going to buy the long legged excuses  :rolleyes:  

 
Otis said:
By the way, my knee is totally healed up. Feels 100%. So we know the rowing won’t aggravate it which is great news. Once this challenge is over I’ll start figuring out how to rotate the two; also want to work lifting back in 2 days a week. Maybe 2 runs, 2 rows, 2 upper body lifts each week. 
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Just not enough days in the week to get all this calorie shredding in!

 
I was dripping, dripping! sweat at the gym yesterday. Ran the stairs for 5 minutes, 10 minutes elliptical, 10 minutes ski thing, day 279 of the plank challenge, plus some whole body movements with a kettlebell. Followed by 10 glorious minutes in the sauna. It was fun. 979 calories burned. 

 
December 5 Row: 7,500  in 30:56

Total distance so far: 34,481

Fly back to the land of my youth tomorrow AM with the fam (first plane ride for the 18 month old, weeee) so things are going to get dicey over the upcoming week. Apparently the YMCA has a couple rowing machines so hopefully I can manage to sneak away a few times to get some meters in. Otherwise, I will have some catching up to do upon my return. G'luck with getting to 10K @Otis it's a grind. 

 
I'll probably start the 800g thing tomorrow. did it today as well but also had some pasta. I'll see how easy that thing is, because it sounds easy

 
eaganwildcats said:
December 5 Row: 7,500  in 30:56

Total distance so far: 34,481

Fly back to the land of my youth tomorrow AM with the fam (first plane ride for the 18 month old, weeee) so things are going to get dicey over the upcoming week. Apparently the YMCA has a couple rowing machines so hopefully I can manage to sneak away a few times to get some meters in. Otherwise, I will have some catching up to do upon my return. G'luck with getting to 10K @Otis it's a grind. 
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Well done.  And thank you for leaving town for a bit so I can catch up.  Not that it’s a race, we just need to get there by 12/31.  But your long rows and lead have definitely helped motivate me a bit.  Towards the end of this challenge I’ll work some more on sprinting and speed; right now the focus is distance and prolonged cardio.  Sunday may be the 10k push...

 
Day 5/100

Did a 27min Beachbody Yoga set in front of the tv. Definitely broke a sweat, but all the stretching felt great, and I feel like it squeezed out some of the lactic acid that has been bugging me for the past couple of days. Tomorrow is a planned cheat day for Championship Saturday. I'm going to get a good run in, then head to my buddy's house for the games.

Diet: Haven't eaten today- slept all day, and I'm at work now.

Dinner: Planning on a grilled cheese sandwich and can of soup. Maybe a salad, depending on how the salad bar looks at work.

Snack- Apples and cheese (sensing a trend?)

Bank: $50

 
belljr said:
@krista4 did you dip into your weekly points?

Not the activity but the weekly bank
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I generally try not to, but this week I am currently at negative points including the weeklies...that's not something to emulate.  Might be a bad week.

ETA:  That said, you should still lose weight even using 100% of your weekly points.

 
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Not a landmark study but very important.  

https://www.jci.org/articles/view/134165

Goes some distance towards connecting dots about fat storage and heptatic effects that drive them.   If you cross this with the effects driven by certain diets (keto) you could begin to perhaps understand response rates. 

Quick summary would be fatty liver drives an uptake of glucose to fat storage.  

Implication might be that those with NAFLD or just straight FLD should lean towards low carb and others can take a more measured approach.  Of course that would take more study.   

 
So , as I said I'm doing the 800g thing. Today I had okonomiyaki twice (about 400 grams of cabbage/onion/chili), an orange and a pear for 800g. I'll probably have soem bread and hummus for dinner later (just had the pear so not really hungry). This thing is pretty easy. We'll see if it actually does anything

 
culdeus said:
Not a landmark study but very important.  

https://www.jci.org/articles/view/134165

Goes some distance towards connecting dots about fat storage and heptatic effects that drive them.   If you cross this with the effects driven by certain diets (keto) you could begin to perhaps understand response rates. 

Quick summary would be fatty liver drives an uptake of glucose to fat storage.  

Implication might be that those with NAFLD or just straight FLD should lean towards low carb and others can take a more measured approach.  Of course that would take more study.   
Click to expand...
Not sure how you connected those dots, but there’s no good reason to believe VLC diets are better at controlling FLD than others, independent of their effect on weight. On the contrary, there’s a slew of rare diseases with fatty liver that are managed with low fat diets. Moreover, prolonged starvation metabolism promotes fat deposition in the liver.

 
Terminalxylem said:
Not sure how you connected those dots, but there’s no good reason to believe VLC diets are better at controlling FLD than others, independent of their effect on weight. On the contrary, there’s a slew of rare diseases with fatty liver that are managed with low fat diets. Moreover, prolonged starvation metabolism promotes fat deposition in the liver.
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I'm not looking at rare diseases.  I'm looking at a bunch of fat people wondering why they stay fat.  

 
culdeus said:
I'm not looking at rare diseases.  I'm looking at a bunch of fat people wondering why they stay fat.  
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Sure. But losing weight is the key - it doesn't matter how they get there. You suggestion that fat people with FLD err towards low-carbohydrate diets isn't evidence based, nor supported by the article you linked. The science is still evolving, of course, but here is what the guys who actually treat fatty liver have to say on the matter:

Lifestyle modification consisting of diet, exercise, and weight loss has been advocated to treat patients with NAFLD. The best data generated to date demonstrate that overall weight loss is the key to improvement in the histopathological features of NASH. In a meta-analysis of eight randomized, controlled trials (RCTs), four with posttreatment histology, those adults who were able to lose at least 5% of body weight had improvement in HS, whereas 􏰀7% body weight reduction was associated with NAS improvement.(135) These data have been supported by a more recent 12-month prospective trial with paired liver biopsies in 261 patients.(136) In this trial, a dose-response curve was demonstrated wherein the greater the degree of weight loss, the more significant the improvement in histopathology such that 􏰀10% weight loss was associated with improvement in all fea- tures of NASH, including portal inflammation and fibrosis. However, it is important to note that those patients losing 􏰀5% body weight stabilized or improved fibrosis in 94% of the cases. Unfortunately, only 50% of patients were able to achieve at least a 7% weight loss at 12 months in this trial.

Compliance with a calorie-restricted diet over the long term is associated with mobilization of liver fat and improvement in cardiovascular risk.(137) The specific macronutrient composition of the diet, over months to years, appears to be less relevant than the end result of sustained weight loss. Prospective trials comparing vari- ous macronutrient diets in NAFLD patients are limited by a lack of sufficient power as well as pretreatment and posttreatment histopathology. Data suggest, however, that decreasing caloric intake by at least 30% or by approximately 750-1,000 kcal/day results in improvement in IR and HS.(138,139) The Mediterranean diet (higher in monounsaturated fatty acids) has also been studied in comparison to a high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet for 6 weeks and, although there was no change in weight loss, MRI results showed significant improvement in steatosis in the Mediterranean diet group. Ultimately, rigorous, prospective, longer-term trials with histopathological endpoints are required before recommendations related to specific macronutrient diets can be made.
Click to expand...

 
Terminalxylem said:
Sure. But losing weight is the key - it doesn't matter how they get there. You suggestion that fat people with FLD err towards low-carbohydrate diets isn't evidence based, nor supported by the article you linked. The science is still evolving, of course, but here is what the guys who actually treat fatty liver have to say on the matter:
Click to expand...
ok

Like I said it was an interesting study that points to why glucose uptake ends up with additional fat deposits.  They fed these people with what I suppose you would call low fat CICO standard type diets.  

I had forgotten you are on the SAD/CICO bandwagon, I should remember not to engage you and won't in the future, thanks.

 
culdeus said:
ok

Like I said it was an interesting study that points to why glucose uptake ends up with additional fat deposits.  They fed these people with what I suppose you would call low fat CICO standard type diets.  

I had forgotten you are on the SAD/CICO bandwagon, I should remember not to engage you and won't in the future, thanks.
Click to expand...
No need to get defensive. I said nothing about the SAD/CICO. The info I provided is the consensus statement from hepatologists who have actually looked at the data for dietary management of FLD.  

I'm sure you are quite knowledgeable on this topic, but you seem to have a bias towards promoting low carbohydrate diets. You post with an air of expertise that suggests you are a scientist (nutritionist?), and link information that would only be understood by someone with similar background. As it turns out, my degree is in biochemistry and I have studied NAFLD specifically. The abstract you linked doesn't add much to the knowledge base for fatty liver, as it's been known for over a decade that insulin resistance is a big part of it. There is nothing in your link that supports a specific dietary strategy for treating FLD. On the contrary, they studied weight loss utilizing a diet which was anything but VLC: 

After baseline testing was completed, 7 subjects in the Obese-NAFLD group participated in a supervised weight loss program, supervised by our study dietitian and behavioral psychologist, involving weekly individual dietary and behavioral education sessions with all food provided as packed-out meals. The macronutrient content of the diet was comprised of ~50% of energy as carbohydrate, ~30% as fat, and ~15% as protein.
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I'm sorry I've threatened your e-expertise, but I don't want non-scientists reading your post and using it as impetus to jump on the actual bandwagon of low-carbohydrate dieting. If bringing medical guidelines and evidence-based information contradictory to your biases makes me unworthy of engaging, so be it. But please try to read and understand your links a little better before posting them as gospel. 

 
Lots of serious business in here.  Just wish there were some definitive info on how I could lose 30lbs and be handsome. 
 

kthxbai 

 
Otis said:
You must be fun at parties.

In fairness, I exercise almost every day now.  But yeah, I like to drink and eat bad stuff.   
Click to expand...
Can't stand parties.

I'm glad you're moving towards a healthier lifestyle. It really isn't rocket science.

It took years of bad habits to get where you are today - don't expect to turn it around overnight.

 
Terminalxylem said:
Can't stand parties.

I'm glad you're moving towards a healthier lifestyle. It really isn't rocket science.

It took years of bad habits to get where you are today - don't expect to turn it around overnight.
Click to expand...
So true.  The fact that I'm finally actually exercising regularly for a few years now is great.  And only recently have I added a cardio routine.  But it was years of neglect to get to where I am, and it may take just as long to get out.  I feel good about the path I'm on.  I'd rather be at my goal today, but I'm ok heading there slowly.  

 
Day 6/100

Woke up around 3:30 in time to watch the OU/Baylor OT. After that, Went to the park for a 2 1/4 mile run. Tomorrow I may hit the gym. I'd like to run again, but my hamstrings are super tight for some reason. I don't think with the way that I run that I'm at risk for pulling one, but I also want to stay healthy for the duration.

Diet: As noted above, today was a planned cheat day. Wings, burgers, dessert.

Bank: $60

 
December 8 Row: 10,513 (46:37)

Total distance so far: 39,235m

46:37; average HR 141; max HR 165; something between 663-720 calories burned

First 10k in the books. Wanted to go a bit longer but we’ve got family stuff to get out to. Felt pretty good. Still hacking up a lung with this head cold and cough which makes it a little more challenging. Can’t figure out the right calories burned — Strava says 720, the erg machine says 663 after adjusting for my weight.  Either way a good workout.  

Also interesting to me that my max HR is identical to my last row, and my avg. HR is roughly the same too.  Seems like it's a good max HR--according to that formula (220-your age), my max should be like 177, and my target HR range should be 100-150.  So, seems like these are good workouts.  I should probably start trying to do a 10k every day.  Don't so how I could NOT get into great shape that way, even if I'm not perfect with my diet. 

 
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Otis said:
December 8 Row: 10,513 (46:37)

Total distance so far: 39,235m

46:37; average HR 141; max HR 165; something between 663-720 calories burned

First 10k in the books. Wanted to go a bit longer but we’ve got family stuff to get out to. Felt pretty good. Still hacking up a lung with this head cold and cough which makes it a little more challenging. Can’t figure out the right calories burned — Strava says 720, the erg machine says 663 after adjusting for my weight.  Either way a good workout.  

Also interesting to me that my max HR is identical to my last row, and my avg. HR is roughly the same too.  Seems like it's a good max HR--according to that formula (220-your age), my max should be like 177, and my target HR range should be 100-150.  So, seems like these are good workouts.  I should probably start trying to do a 10k every day.  Don't so how I could NOT get into great shape that way, even if I'm not perfect with my diet. 
Click to expand...
That looks like a great workout.  If you consistently do this, you're going to get in a much healthier state. 

Couple things to consider, however:

1)  This will not necessarily help you lose a lot of weight.  Yes, you will lose some additional to start, but that will plateau after a little bit.  With these workouts, your appetite will increase (yes, even yours).  That's normal and to be expected with a workout with those HRs above.  

2)  That said, you should keep this up as getting your HR up like that is healthy for you.  The time you spent (46:37) is a good time.  Consider some days trying to go slower and for longer if possible (I don't row so I don't know how all it works). 

3)  At some point, if you really want to lose weight with the above, consider reading about MAF training.  Based on those HRs above, even though I'm only aware of how it's used in running, I can't imagine that you can't do the same thing with rowing.  You calculate your MAF HR (for you, probably 135?), and then you do your entire row keeping your HR between 125-135 the entire time.  You don't go over.  If you need to slow down your rows as time passes to keep it at 135, that's what you do.  What it does is teaches your body to burn fat instead of glycogen.  It takes a while to see changes, but it's very likely to work.  In contrast to #1 above, it WON'T increase your appetite and you are likely to lose more weight this way and decrease any risk of injury as well as the rowing will be "easier".  Something to consider and I'm happy to link more to this (at least from a running perspective) if you're interested.

Good work, though.  Keep it up.

 
Guys?  I was putting on my workout clothes this morning and noticed...my ribs!  It turns out they've been right there the whole time!   Now they're just more noticeable.   :)  

Finished Day 10 of the Tecumseh challenge, with a good hour+ workout at a steep incline.  I've also hit my 3+ miles every day to keep up with my team challenge.

Tomorrow will be interesting, as I've had five extremely good days of eating/drinking this week and two very bad days.  Keeping my body guessing, it seems.

@belljr and @Redwes25 (and anyone else on WW), I wanted to mention that the 4 household has had good experiences with some of the WW two-point snacks that you can buy on their website.  Hits include the cheese popcorn, chocolate caramel bar, peanut butter pie bar, and cinnamon puffs.  The mint chocolate bar and chocolate marshmallow puffs are also decent.  Misses include the BBQ crisps (too sweet), lemon bar (tasty but dry), and coconut almond protein bar (Mr. krista declared it awful).

 
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Otis said:
December 8 Row: 10,513 (46:37)

Total distance so far: 39,235m

46:37; average HR 141; max HR 165; something between 663-720 calories burned

First 10k in the books. Wanted to go a bit longer but we’ve got family stuff to get out to. Felt pretty good. Still hacking up a lung with this head cold and cough which makes it a little more challenging. Can’t figure out the right calories burned — Strava says 720, the erg machine says 663 after adjusting for my weight.  Either way a good workout.  

Also interesting to me that my max HR is identical to my last row, and my avg. HR is roughly the same too.  Seems like it's a good max HR--according to that formula (220-your age), my max should be like 177, and my target HR range should be 100-150.  So, seems like these are good workouts.  I should probably start trying to do a 10k every day.  Don't so how I could NOT get into great shape that way, even if I'm not perfect with my diet. 
Click to expand...
I am in trouble. 

 
krista4 said:
Guys?  I was putting on my workout clothes this morning and noticed...my ribs!  It turns out they've been right there the whole time!   Now they're just more noticeable.   :)  
Click to expand...
How can I put this delicately. My wife has complained for a few months now that my ribs are “pokey” now that I’ve lost so much weight when we adult wrestle.

 
gianmarco said:
That looks like a great workout.  If you consistently do this, you're going to get in a much healthier state. 

Couple things to consider, however:

1)  This will not necessarily help you lose a lot of weight.  Yes, you will lose some additional to start, but that will plateau after a little bit.  With these workouts, your appetite will increase (yes, even yours).  That's normal and to be expected with a workout with those HRs above.  

2)  That said, you should keep this up as getting your HR up like that is healthy for you.  The time you spent (46:37) is a good time.  Consider some days trying to go slower and for longer if possible (I don't row so I don't know how all it works). 

3)  At some point, if you really want to lose weight with the above, consider reading about MAF training.  Based on those HRs above, even though I'm only aware of how it's used in running, I can't imagine that you can't do the same thing with rowing.  You calculate your MAF HR (for you, probably 135?), and then you do your entire row keeping your HR between 125-135 the entire time.  You don't go over.  If you need to slow down your rows as time passes to keep it at 135, that's what you do.  What it does is teaches your body to burn fat instead of glycogen.  It takes a while to see changes, but it's very likely to work.  In contrast to #1 above, it WON'T increase your appetite and you are likely to lose more weight this way and decrease any risk of injury as well as the rowing will be "easier".  Something to consider and I'm happy to link more to this (at least from a running perspective) if you're interested.

Good work, though.  Keep it up.
Click to expand...
Awesome thanks. Now I understand what the MAF thing is — that is helpful.  I may have to give that a try. 

 
Day 7/100

Weird, weird day. Today was Christmas decoration day, so we piled the family into the car and went to lunch before going to pick out our tree. We had a coupon for a place called Diablo's (think Moe's or Chipotle), so off we went. Ended up getting a burrito and tortilla chips. So much for today's calorie count... We went and cut down our tree, got it home and put the lights up, and then it was about time to head out for a run. Before going, I came into this thread and read the MAF information. Cool, I'll give it a shot. My MAF number is supposed to be 133. I got out to the park and started my run. Within 2/10 mile my heart rate is at 137. So much for MAF. I decided to keep going, but to keep the pace slow. Now, On my previous runs this week, I had struggled to even get to a mile before I needed a walking break. On the first two runs, I could only get to 0.6. Yesterday, I got to a mile at 9:50 pace, but really struggled. Today, I got to a mile, and felt fine. 10:20 pace. Cool, I'll keep going. I continued running and got to mile 2- still felt great, still at about a 10:30 pace. Could I make 3 miles without a walk break? Hell yes I could. I ended up running 4.5 miles with no walk breaks. The only reason I had to stop was because it was after dark, and the trail isn't lighted.  I ended up averaging 11:20 per mile, but ran for 51 minutes straight. I couldn't believe it.

I don't really know what to take away from this. My HR was consistently about 170 the entire time. According to what I see online, my max HR should be around 174, so I was right there the whole time.

Bank: $70

 
Tecumseh said:
Day 7/100

Weird, weird day. Today was Christmas decoration day, so we piled the family into the car and went to lunch before going to pick out our tree. We had a coupon for a place called Diablo's (think Moe's or Chipotle), so off we went. Ended up getting a burrito and tortilla chips. So much for today's calorie count... We went and cut down our tree, got it home and put the lights up, and then it was about time to head out for a run. Before going, I came into this thread and read the MAF information. Cool, I'll give it a shot. My MAF number is supposed to be 133. I got out to the park and started my run. Within 2/10 mile my heart rate is at 137. So much for MAF. I decided to keep going, but to keep the pace slow. Now, On my previous runs this week, I had struggled to even get to a mile before I needed a walking break. On the first two runs, I could only get to 0.6. Yesterday, I got to a mile at 9:50 pace, but really struggled. Today, I got to a mile, and felt fine. 10:20 pace. Cool, I'll keep going. I continued running and got to mile 2- still felt great, still at about a 10:30 pace. Could I make 3 miles without a walk break? Hell yes I could. I ended up running 4.5 miles with no walk breaks. The only reason I had to stop was because it was after dark, and the trail isn't lighted.  I ended up averaging 11:20 per mile, but ran for 51 minutes straight. I couldn't believe it.

I don't really know what to take away from this. My HR was consistently about 170 the entire time. According to what I see online, my max HR should be around 174, so I was right there the whole time.

Bank: $70
Click to expand...
First of all, congrats!!

Secondly, head on over to the running thread.

Third, if you don't, keep doing that. Run however slow you need to be able to talk. You'll surprise yourself. Then head over to the running thread. 

And yes, that HR is high. Run even slower and you'll enjoy it even more because you'll feel better. You won't always run that slow because things will improve and you'll be faster at the same effort level. 

Again, great job.

 
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gianmarco said:
First of all, congrats!!

Secondly, head on over to the running thread.

Third, if you don't, keep doing that. Run however slow you need to be able to talk. You'll surprise yourself. Then head over to the running thread. 

And yes, that HR is high. Run even slower and you'll enjoy it even more because you'll feel better. You won't always run that slow because things will improve and you'll be faster at the same effort level. 

Again, great job.
Click to expand...
I don't think I could run any slower. I'd be walking.

 
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