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***Official President Joe Biden Thread*** BEST EVER! (1 Viewer)

Godsbrother said:
Defaulting on debt already incurred will not solve the problem and in fact make things much worse.

Fixing it requires sharp spending cuts and raising taxes, now please show me where either party has shown any interest in doing either of those things let alone both.
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Raising taxes are only necessary when the budget on spending is increased past the point to pay and that is a significant historical issue regarding difference of philosophy between the two parties.  Democrats will say as you did- we need to raise taxes to fix it while Republicans will say you fix it (begin to correct at this stage) by minimizing government spending in the beginning, not once it is broken.  But that is a majorconflict becausedemocrats love to expand influence in government and spend and bring more citizens to the government teet while Republicans do not.  

You don't a dollar in taxes raised when you only spend .90.  but the way all these programs are being offered up, giving money out everywhere then I do see why people think the only way out is to have more to pay.  That's not surprising.  Many people living in this country are poor financial stewards with their own money. It is not surprising that they would also be with other people's as well.  

I think a famous person already said this long ago but that's the basic problem/failure with socialism movements.  Sooner or later, you run out of other people's money to spend.  

 
rockaction said:
Full stop. The article showed how in two locations BLM and Antifa shared members and had issues with these competing concerns and were obviously coordinating together to march while sharing members at protests. You need to stop lying. I'll report it, like you report everybody.
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There is no documentation of any actual Antifa/BLM connection outside of that interview with a couple of lower level BLM participants in the protests and that was it (nothing from anyone higher up in a position of responsibility in BLM or who had actually organized any of these rallies). 

Antifa has a history at showing up at rallies and protests they don't necessarily believe in the cause or have any connection with organizers (see Milo Y. protest organized by students in Berkeley that Antifa crashed). They are opportunist anarchists who take advantage of any situation they can just to advance their own agenda. Black activists have denounced them:

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-11-16/portland-protests-anarchists-backlash

Portland’s anarchists say they support racial justice. Black activists want nothing to do with them

[...]

Black activists and community leaders, who generally view the defeat of Trump as an opportunity for change within the system, said the anarchists are hijacking the movement and undermining the push for racial justice by continuing to commit violence.

“When people set fire to a building, it really does not liberate me one bit,” said Mingus Mapps, a Black resident who won a seat on the Portland City Council this month. “It does the opposite. It fuels the political culture that makes racism possible.”

[...]

 
squistion said:
There is no documentation of any actual Antifa/BLM connection outside of that interview with a couple of lower level BLM participants in the protests and that was it (nothing from anyone higher up in a position of responsibility in BLM or who had actually organized any of these rallies). 

Antifa has a history at showing up at rallies and protests they don't necessarily believe in the cause or have any connection with organizers (see Milo Y. protest organized by students in Berkeley that Antifa crashed). They are opportunist anarchists who take advantage of any situation they can just to advance their own agenda. Black activists have denounced them:

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-11-16/portland-protests-anarchists-backlash

Portland’s anarchists say they support racial justice. Black activists want nothing to do with them

[...]

Black activists and community leaders, who generally view the defeat of Trump as an opportunity for change within the system, said the anarchists are hijacking the movement and undermining the push for racial justice by continuing to commit violence.

“When people set fire to a building, it really does not liberate me one bit,” said Mingus Mapps, a Black resident who won a seat on the Portland City Council this month. “It does the opposite. It fuels the political culture that makes racism possible.”

[...]
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What you just cited is proof that they demonstrate together. That they have issues with how each other demonstrates DOES NOT SAY WHAT YOU WANT IT TO. I never said there was coordination, only that the members are aware and march with each other. Thank you for proving it. There are numerous articles, all over, talking about the tension between the BLM members and Antifa. However, the groups protest together. That one part of one group disagrees with the other's methods is proof of that connection, both on the ground and in the public eye.

Stop lying. BLM and Antifa march together, share membership, and have members that belong to both groups and causes. This points the way to that.

 
rockaction said:
What you just cited is proof that they demonstrate together. That they have issues with how each other demonstrates DOES NOT SAY WHAT YOU WANT IT TO. I never said there was coordination, only that the members are aware and march with each other. Thank you for proving it. There are numerous articles, all over, talking about the tension between the BLM members and Antifa. However, the groups protest together. That one part of one group disagrees with the other's methods is proof of that connection, both on the ground and in the public eye.

Stop lying. BLM and Antifa march together, share membership, and have members that belong to both groups and causes. This points the way to that.
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Dude they demonstrate together only because Antifa crashes these BLM protests/rallies uninvited and the BLM folks there have no way to throw them out.  :rolleyes:

 
The General said:
Had to stop watching and they were covering a lot quickly, but I believe the 2500 was a recommendation early in the year and in late August as things were deteriorating the recommendation was then to leave and all the generals agreed to this. 
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More likely Biden wanted out so badly and so quickly that he went against Milley and McKenzie's advice, (wrongly) betting that the government was stable until it was all behind him.

That is what Psaki implied when she responded to the 2,500 question. That Biden "takes advice from everyone then decides from there." That there were "other military advisors" recommended pulling everyone. Who those people are if not Milley and McKenzie is a colossal mystery.

 
squistion said:
Dude they demonstrate together only because Antifa crashes these BLM protests/rallies uninvited and the BLM folks there have no way to throw them out.  :rolleyes:
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There is every way to ask the police to stop the rioting, and they don't because they don't condemn the riots. Full stop. Stop lying.

I don't have time for your DNC garbage today. Try politicking another dumb naïf.

 
rockaction said:
There is every way to ask the police to stop the rioting, and they don't because they don't condemn the riots. Full stop. Stop lying.

I don't have time for your DNC garbage today. Try politicking another dumb naïf.
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I'm am not lying. I just quoted from and linked to an article where black activists condemned Antifa rioting and setting fires at their protests because it makes the BLM movement and agenda look bad.

 
Shutout said:
Raising taxes are only necessary when the budget on spending is increased past the point to pay and that is a significant historical issue regarding difference of philosophy between the two parties.  Democrats will say as you did- we need to raise taxes to fix it while Republicans will say you fix it (begin to correct at this stage) by minimizing government spending in the beginning, not once it is broken.  But that is a majorconflict becausedemocrats love to expand influence in government and spend and bring more citizens to the government teet while Republicans do not.  

You don't a dollar in taxes raised when you only spend .90.  but the way all these programs are being offered up, giving money out everywhere then I do see why people think the only way out is to have more to pay.  That's not surprising.  Many people living in this country are poor financial stewards with their own money. It is not surprising that they would also be with other people's as well.  

I think a famous person already said this long ago but that's the basic problem/failure with socialism movements.  Sooner or later, you run out of other people's money to spend.  
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The last Republican president to have a balanced budget was Dwight Eisenhower.   

Please let that sink in.

Republicans can talk all they want about minimizing government but they fail time and time again when given the opportunity.  Wait, that is not true - they do not fail because they don't even attempt it.

I am betting you thought the Trump tax cut was great even though it came with a large increase in spending.   Of course we know it is reckless to reduce revenue at the same time you increase spending but we were promised 5% growth on GDP would pay for it.  Unfortunately he didn't post a single quarter anywhere near that kind of growth and in fact the GDP was trending downward even before Covid.   But hey as long as we got to keep a few bucks and corporations and rich people got great tax breaks who cares about the deficit, right?

As I said before, it is like clockwork:   Republicans don't care about deficits until a Democrat is in the White House.  The truth is that both parties have had opportunities to address the problem but they don't.  Mitch has voted time and time again to increase the debt ceiling but now all of a sudden when his party is in the minority he wants to fix it?   Please don't tell me you're falling for this line of BS.

Don't get me wrong: the Democrats are as much to blame as the Republicans for the deficit but at least they're up front about having to tax to pay for it. 

I think both tax and spend and cut revenue and spend are bad policy.  I think we should have a phased-in plan to reduce spending and increase taxes over a 10 year period in order to get to a balanced budget and then enact a balanced-budget mandate and make the federal government live within it's means.

But you won't find a single prominent politician from either party pushing this because they don't really care about the problem.  They just want to blame the other side.  

Your response sounds like you live in a fantasy world where Republicans are fiscally responsible.  They aren't and never will be

 
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Godsbrother said:
As I said before, it is like clockwork:   Republicans don't care about deficits until a Democrat is in the White House.  The truth is that both parties have had opportunities to address the problem but they don't.  Mitch has voted time and time again to increase the debt ceiling but now all of a sudden when his party is in the minority he wants to fix it?   Please don't tell me you're falling for this line of BS.

Don't get me wrong: the Democrats are as much to blame as the Republicans for the deficit but at least they're up front about having to tax to pay for it. 
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TY!!!   

I've said it time and time again. In today's world—where everything is recorded, on record and easily searchable—how these politicians get away with constantly flip flopping and talking out both sides of their mouth astounds me. 

It's not like we're living back in the day where the only source of information was the rural town newsletter and listening to news over the radio. 

We all need to do better and recognize when this blatant BS is happening. 
 

 
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squistion said:
Dude they demonstrate together only because Antifa crashes these BLM protests/rallies uninvited and the BLM folks there have no way to throw them out.  :rolleyes:
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Bu that happens at pretty much all protests and riots. BLM has not been categorized as a domestic terrorism threat, however, the group must separate themselves from keep getting associated with violence and riots if they want the group to be effective in promoting the causes they espouse. 

 
Summer Wheat said:
Bu that happens at pretty much all protests and riots. BLM has not been categorized as a domestic terrorism threat, however, the group must separate themselves from keep getting associated with violence and riots if they want the group to be effective in promoting the causes they espouse. 
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If Antifa decides to crash a BLM rally or protest march and starts attacking people and starting fires there is not a whole lot BLM members can do outside of hoping that the police will stop it (and we have seen the LEOs response or lack thereof in most cities where Antifa has run amok). 

In the article I linked, BLM activists who denounced Antifa for hijacking their protests/rallies. I am not sure what more they can do without risking their own lives to stop the Antifa violence. 

 
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Sorry if this was already shared ... but isnt it a breath of fresh air that Biden isnt blocking everyone of his staff/generals/officials from testifying?  It feels like a sense of accountability has returned.  Im super grateful for this.

 
squistion said:
If Antifa decides to crash a BLM rally or protest march and starts attacking people and starting fires there is not a whole lot BLM members can do outside of hoping that the police will stop it (and we have seen the LEOs response or lack thereof in most cities where Antifa has run amok). 

In the article I linked, BLM activists denounced Antifa for hijacking their protests/rallies. I am not sure what more they can do without risking their own lives to stop the Antifa violence. 
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True but lets be honest.  All the riots and looting were not all Antifa.

 
Summer Wheat said:
True but lets be honest.  All the riots and looting were not all Antifa.
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Weve gone over this numerous times with squiz.  He continues to deny it despite the evidence.

@rockaction has linked numerous links and articles describing the affiliation between the two. The leaders of the BLM movement are self-described marxists themselves, which is what a majority, if not all, members of antifa also are.

 
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BladeRunner said:
Weve gone over this numerous times with squiz.  He continues to deny it despite the evidence.

@rockaction has linked numerous links and articles describing the affiliation between the two and how there is coordination among them. The leaders of the BLM movement are marxists themselves, which is what a majority, if not all, members of antifa also are.
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I have not said there was coordination among its leaders or even members. I merely said there's proof of members drifting back and forth between the two groups, loosely affiliating with both and participating in both groups marches. Let's be very exact about that.

 
rockaction said:
I have not said there was coordination among its leaders or even members. I merely said there's proof of members drifting back and forth between the two groups, loosely affiliating with both and participating in both groups marches. Let's be very exact about that.
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I edited my post accordingly.  👍

 
BladeRunner said:
Weve gone over this numerous times with squiz.  He continues to deny it despite the evidence.

@rockaction has linked numerous links and articles describing the affiliation between the two. The leaders of the BLM movement are self-described marxists themselves, which is what a majority, if not all, members of antifa also are.
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Well Squid is not the most open minded person on the board.

 
NorvilleBarnes said:
It's impossible to separate the activities of two domestic terrorist organizations that have overlapping agendas.
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Correct.  

The problem with BLM is that it was started by and currently led by self-avowed and trained Marxists.  That right there tells you that the entire movement isn't about equality or justice - it's about power, money and revenge.  They rope in and dupe people with pandering "equality" phrases, but the ultimate goal is neither equality nor justice.  Just look at the movement organizer and her, what, 4 mansions?

We have from the late 19th century thru today to see how these Socialist/Marxist/Communist movements and groups work and behave, and it ain't pretty.  All those movements started out the same and ended with some of the most extreme brutality we've ever seen on this planet.  That's why movements and groups like these need to be nipped in the bud and not allowed to expand.  History demands that we do this.

And if you think if the leaders of BLM actually got power that they would implement equality and justice for anyone else then I would say you've haven't learned anything from history. 

And the fact that Antifa IS comprised of Marxists and Communists means that these two groups are made for each other and support one another.

 
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BladeRunner said:
Correct.  

The problem with BLM is that it was started by and currently led by self-avowed and trained Marxists.  That right there tells you that the entire movement isn't about equality or justice - it's about power, money and revenge.  They rope in and dupe people with pandering "equality" phrases, but the ultimate goal is neither equality nor justice.  Just look at the movement organizer and her, what, 4 mansions?

We have from the late 19th century thru today to see how these Socialist/Marxist/Communist movements and groups work and behave, and it ain't pretty.  All those movements started out the same and ended with some of the most extreme brutality we've ever seen on this planet.  That's why movements and groups like these need to be nipped in the bud and not allowed to expand.  History demands that we do this.

And if you think if the leaders of BLM actually got power that they would implement equality and justice for anyone else then I would say you've haven't learned anything from history. 

And the fact that Antifa IS comprised of Marxists and Communists means that these two groups are made for each other and support one another.
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I don't think that is factually correct. One of their founders made that statement, but I don't believe that she is still in a leadership position with the organization. 

 
squistion said:
I don't think that is factually correct. One of their founders made that statement, but I don't believe that she is still in a leadership position with the organization. 
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Patrisse Cullors

Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrisse Cullors said in a newly surfaced video from 2015 that she and her fellow organizers are “trained Marxists” – making clear their movement’s ideological foundation, according to a report.

Cullors, 36, was the protégé of Eric Mann, former agitator of the Weather Underground domestic terror organization, and spent years absorbing the Marxist-Leninist ideology that shaped her worldview, Breitbart News reported.

“The first thing, I think, is that we actually do have an ideological frame. Myself and Alicia in particular are trained organizers,” she said, referring to BLM co-founder Alicia Garza.

“We are trained Marxists. We are super-versed on, sort of, ideological theories. And I think that what we really tried to do is build a movement that could be utilized by many, many black folk,” Cullors added in the interview with Jared Ball of The Real News Network.
Click to expand...

 
squistion said:
Indeed, I did say she made that statement, however my understanding is that she is no longer in any type of leadership position with the organization, so that makes her statement irrelevant to what the current goals or agenda is of the organization. 
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No.  No it really doesn't.  To suggest that her leaving has fundamentally shifted their priorities makes no sense at all.

And it wan't just her it was her fellow founders.  

 
squistion said:
Indeed, I did say she made that statement, however my understanding is that she is no longer in any type of leadership position with the organization, so that makes her statement irrelevant to what the current goals or agenda is of the organization. 
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so anything Trump did or said is irrelevant to Republican party right ?

gotcha 😘

 
Godsbrother said:
But you won't find a single prominent politician from either party pushing this because they don't really care about the problem.  They just want to blame the other side.  
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No? Regardless of his political motivation....Manchin's position seems pretty reasonable from where I stand.

"What I have made clear to the President and Democratic leaders is that spending trillions more on new and expanded government programs, when we can't even pay for the essential social programs, like Social Security and Medicare, is the definition of fiscal insanity," Manchin said in the statement.

Manchin added that the social spending bill at the heart of Biden's agenda should be driven by "what we need and can afford" and not to "reengineer the social and economic fabric of this nation or vengefully tax for the sake of wishful spending."

"I cannot - and will not - support trillions in spending or an all or nothing approach that ignores the brutal fiscal reality our nation faces," Manchin said, while adding that he hopes a path forward can be found.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/manchin-fires-back-at-progressives-trillions-in-spending-fiscal-insanity/ar-AAOYeZi?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz

 
Stoneworker said:
No? Regardless of his political motivation....Manchin's position seems pretty reasonable from where I stand.

"What I have made clear to the President and Democratic leaders is that spending trillions more on new and expanded government programs, when we can't even pay for the essential social programs, like Social Security and Medicare, is the definition of fiscal insanity," Manchin said in the statement.

Manchin added that the social spending bill at the heart of Biden's agenda should be driven by "what we need and can afford" and not to "reengineer the social and economic fabric of this nation or vengefully tax for the sake of wishful spending."

"I cannot - and will not - support trillions in spending or an all or nothing approach that ignores the brutal fiscal reality our nation faces," Manchin said, while adding that he hopes a path forward can be found.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/manchin-fires-back-at-progressives-trillions-in-spending-fiscal-insanity/ar-AAOYeZi?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz
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Manchin's not wrong.   Democrats' aren't right.

 
BladeRunner said:
Manchin's not wrong.   Democrats' aren't right.
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He’s wrong because raising the debt ceiling has nothing to do with the proposed infrastructure spending.  
 

If he doesn’t want to go along with that then good, I agree with him but the debt ceiling must be raised to pay debt already incurred and not doing has dire consequences 

My problem with Manchin is why he wasn’t taking this stance years ago? To not raise the debt ceiling on the debt you voted for seems to be rather ridiculous 

 
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2019 was a long time ago.

Mitch McConnell has voted to increase the debt limit 32 times, each time citing putting the economy and our full faith and credit at risk of if we don't.  After forcing the hand of the democrats to address the debt limit on their own, he then filibustered it, putting politics over the country.  

 
the rover said:
2019 was a long time ago.

Mitch McConnell has voted to increase the debt limit 32 times, each time citing putting the economy and our full faith and credit at risk of if we don't.  After forcing the hand of the democrats to address the debt limit on their own, he then filibustered it, putting politics over the country. 
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This is my shocked face.

 
Godsbrother said:
He’s wrong because raising the debt ceiling has nothing to do with the proposed infrastructure spending.  
 

If he doesn’t want to go along with that then good, I agree with him but the debt ceiling must be raised to pay debt already incurred and not doing has dire consequences 

My problem with Manchin is why he wasn’t taking this stance years ago? To not raise the debt ceiling on the debt you voted for seems to be rather ridiculous 
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I may be missing Manchin's meaning here and granted I haven't seen them all, but has Manchin come out against raising the debt ceiling?  I hadn't read his position as taking that approach.  I think that's a separate issue from the bipartisan infrastructure bill and for lack of a better term the $3.5 trillion bill.  I get that they can link them, but it certainly isn't necessary.  I agree with you that we have to raise it for now even for those of us who see the debt as a huge issue. 

Some of Manchin's comments I read yesterday I can certainly agree with, including work requirements for some of the programs.  Just this morning we had new jobless claims numbers and continuing jobless claims numbers that show a persistent and even rising number, even while our available jobs number grows and we face a labor shortage.  To me, paying people to stay home is causing this persistent issue.  The very principle of doing it strikes at productivity.

 
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