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Official Johnny Manziel Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
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Buckeyedawgs
Footballguy
the bud light 4 pack at his chair told me all I need to know about his future as a Brown and his rehab success! 
Half in the bag
Footballguy
The guys a clown. Instead of holding a football, Manziel should be holding a seltzer bottle.
Old Smiley
Footballguy
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
As I was saying. Grossi posted an article clearly to get noticed and had zero substance in it. That really does not give you much credit going forward in what you say or write when you begin making stuff up.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Honestly I doubt what Pettine says at this point means anything either. Would he really answer "yes" to that question even if it was true internally in the organizatiion.Carter_Can_Fly said:
matuski
Footballguy
Spot on observation by me as far as I can tell.
I am routing for Manziel but have no issue saying what I saw last year was not good. Your hate is so off the charts - Positive or even neutral news about JFF seems to actually (really) upset you.
Admit it - the Grossi piece was crap with quotes he didn't even get himself about something he clearly knows nothing more about than any of us.
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An 18 year old teasing Manziel and being...an 18 year old wisenheimer shouldn't be this much news. The way I figure is if you weren't a sarcastic wise guy at 18 then go ahead and critique Manziel, but if you were you might think about what it'd be like to deal with yourself at that age.
When my friends and I were troublemaking wiseguys, we got chased, or beat, or the cops called on us even though it was just words. Johnny threw a water bottle. Cmon
To the reporters hunting down "will charges be filed" cmon
All world T Joe Thomas is sitting
The Browns got some DT UDFA that other teams put waiver bids in on
Bowe hurt his knee(coach said no big deal, tweak)
They signed some cute kid with immunodeficiency disorder to a contract for a day
These are all wayyyy better conversations/topic issues than some 18 year old being a tool
When my friends and I were troublemaking wiseguys, we got chased, or beat, or the cops called on us even though it was just words. Johnny threw a water bottle. Cmon
To the reporters hunting down "will charges be filed" cmon
All world T Joe Thomas is sitting
The Browns got some DT UDFA that other teams put waiver bids in on
Bowe hurt his knee(coach said no big deal, tweak)
They signed some cute kid with immunodeficiency disorder to a contract for a day
These are all wayyyy better conversations/topic issues than some 18 year old being a tool
DocHolliday
Footballguy
This is news because Johnny Football has it coming. He did everything he could to get attention. He thought he was going to be instantly great and worshipped. Instead of working hard at his craft, he partied. Now, people are giving him the business for being such an ##### and a failure so far in the NFL.
Old Smiley
Footballguy
Yeah, he's pretty much just got to take all this on the chin. It's the situation he's made for himself. I hope he will put his head in his playbook and leave it there until he's the most prepared player on the team. That is in his control.
pantherclub
Footballguy
daveR
Footballguy
IMO, there is a better percentage chance of McCown becoming a legit NFL starter than Manziel. At least he has shown something on the NFL level. Johnny looked lost on the field (like a rookie). The likelihood of him being valuable in 2015 is small. IMO, that's why the Browns appear to have "moved on" from him. They are taking their best shot for 2015 -- McCown.
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
At this stage if you are thinking short term and stop gap then that makes sense.daveR said:
If you are thinking about the future and long term you have to see what you have in Manziel at some stage this year. The play for the Browns is to start McCown until he fails (which he will). Manziel needs to continue work on plenty of things and this extra time of not being forced to start week 1 will allow him to continue to push to be better.
After McCown fails you turn to Manziel and see if you have anything in him. If he continues to look completely lost and like he won't develop you move on from both McCown and Manziel.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
I'm not sure why there are any Manziel apologist out there. Why do you want this man to succeed in the NFL? What has he done to earn being a first round draft pick? He needs to disappear from public and just stay with the team.
If he truly wants to change his image then he needs to be on the practice field, in the film room, and when he can't be there he should be home studying and staying out of trouble. If you need anything from the outside world have it delivered to you. Stay away from the public and away from temptation.
If he truly wants to change his image then he needs to be on the practice field, in the film room, and when he can't be there he should be home studying and staying out of trouble. If you need anything from the outside world have it delivered to you. Stay away from the public and away from temptation.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
The Browns will choose a QB with their first pick in the draft next year. Going to be a great draft for QBs.daveR said:
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Bunch of guys with prototype bodies and good arms.
None of them dazzle me so far, but probably a few first rounders among 'em. Maybe Cardale Jones could become that guy with a year in the offense under his belt. A little early to tell what he can do.
Sunday Devil
Footballguy
I've watched a lot of tape of Maziel, and for those who compare his game to Tebow are just plain wrong and maybe ignorant. Manziel naturally has what Tebow could never develop (AND NEVER WILL), a proper throwing motion as a quarterback. Just take a look at how both players release the ball, Manziel is 10x better than tebow. His throwing motion is seamless and it doesn't looked forced like Tebows'. For that reason alone, I think Johnny has a chance to make it in the NFL as a QB. Tebow never had a chance, never!
matuski
Footballguy
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
There are certain people that earned and deserve support and there are certain people who do not. I do not respect Manziel, not yet at least. He has to earn respect and I think it's clear that most NFL fans do not respect him are either do a good amount of NFL players.
This is not a mark in Manziel's favor. It means there's little to no upside in his arm strength, which is currently so unusably poor at the NFL level that he was literally laughed off the field by opponents and fans alike.
Which goes once again to the point: Johnny can turn his life around and become a better person, and indeed we should all hope he does, but there's no rehab for small and weak-armed.
The guys Manziel can point to who have similar physical attributes but are successful are all guys who started taking the maximizing of those skills seriously when they were adolescents. (Wilson, Brees, etc.)There's no sane reason to hope Manziel makes up both an unbreachable gap in athleticism versus most NFL QB's, AND a decade-plus long gap in preparation versus the successful physical outliers.
I think the only sane argument one could make would be that with the world's best trainer's devoting backup QB reps to him for the next several years, maybe he could enter his 30's as a viable NFL QB. But I can't see anyone pissing away salary and roster space on him nearly that long. This story is just about over, I'm afraid.
matuski
Footballguy
This is about one of the greatest NCAA football players ever earning Hawkeye21's "respect"?pantherclub
Footballguy
What^
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
What are you talking about? I obviously know that no one cares who I respect but I'm one of the thousands that don't respect him. The public as a whole doesn't like him and most importantly his peers do not respect him.
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Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
This is ridiculous.This is not a mark in Manziel's favor. It means there's little to no upside in his arm strength, which is currently so unusably poor at the NFL level that he was literally laughed off the field by opponents and fans alike.
Which goes once again to the point: Johnny can turn his life around and become a better person, and indeed we should all hope he does, but there's no rehab for small and weak-armed.
There's no sane reason to hope Manziel makes up both an unbreachable gap in athleticism versus most NFL QB's, AND a decade-plus long gap in preparation versus the successful physical outliers.
I think the only sane argument one could make would be that with the world's best trainer's devoting backup QB reps to him for the next several years, maybe he could enter his 30's as a viable NFL QB. But I can't see anyone pissing away salary and roster space on him nearly that long. This story is just about over, I'm afraid.
First off Manziel could very well increase his arm strength but even at this stage he has plenty of arm strength to make all NFL throws. If he fails it won't be due to arm strength. If he fails it will be due to not making his reads, not taking the time to go through his progressions and leaving the pocket too soon.
I get people questioning his character or work ethic as that has clearly been an issue but the arm strength thing after he has attempted a whopping 35 throws in the NFL is a complete reach.
People used to question Drew Brees arm strength coming out of college and early in his career as well. Heck Russell Wilson who throws one of the best deep balls in the game was being questioned by some if he would have the arm strength coming out of college. Manziel and other small qb's don't fit 6'5 qb mold which leads some to look for and question some things that may not be there.
Keep in mind his pro day...
"He showed us he can make all the throws," NFL Network analyst Kurt Warner said. "That deep ball was impeccable. Great touch, good enough velocity and was able to set it out there."
"Mayock compared Manziel's arm strength with the other top quarterback prospects in this year's draft -- Blake Bortles and Teddy Bridgewater -- and said Manziel's arm was at least as strong as Bortles' and looks stronger than Bridgewater's. Mayock raved about Manziel's competitiveness and said Manziel confirmed that he can make every throw mechanically."
matuski
Footballguy
Hey if you feel like it is your place to judge.. be my guest. Hope with all your might that this man fails in life. Very big of you.What are you talking about? I obviously know that know one cares who I respect but I'm one of the thousands that don't respect him. The public as a whole doesn't like him and most importantly his peers do not respect him.
edit - this whole concept of fans "respecting" players is hilarious in my mind.
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Bob Magaw
Footballguy
At this point, what he does as a pro is more of a concern than what he did in college. He can't slide on that reputation any more. It isn't just that he looked bad, it is how he looked bad. Maybe he put in 80 hour weeks learning the plays and is unfairly criticized. But when he is a high profile, frequent partier, and the vets criticize him for having no clue on the plays, he kind of put himself in the position to get questioned. Imagine if Gronk was as high profile, and had partied as much (as he does now), but bombed because he didn't know the plays. It would reflect poorly on him.
I don't want him to fail, I could care less either way, as a player. It is up to him to make his own luck, and that might involve partying less (and I don't mean to make light of his situation if he has addiction issues, it is what it is, hopefully he can overcome that if he does have such issues - as a PERSON, I hope he succeeds), and working and studying harder. In a personal sense, respect isn't an issue for me, either. I just don't care. It's not my problem.
More disturbing to his NFL career, for those that have him in fantasy (and I don't, so don't have a vested interest either way, I actually expected he would do better last year - even by the low rookie QB bar, it was pretty disastrous, I think you acknowledged in some way it wasn't good, and no sugar coating that aspect of his rookie year), is lack of respect from coaches and teammates that may have arisen from last year. Could he re-earn their trust? Sure, absolutely. It just isn't a good sign that he put himself in the hole like this, and did that to himself to start off his career on the wrong foot. There was some criticism, right or wrong, that he seemed to have a sense of entitlement, and just about everything that happened last year, was consistent and aligned with that perception. Again, maybe it it wasn't/isn't true, but he did put himself in position to have those questions linger.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
I didn't realize I said I wanted Manziel to fail in life. Just because I think he's a punk doesn't mean I want him to fail. I just prefer to root for players that are more modest. I like to see players show some respect. I know, the word "Respect" doesn't really matter much anymore. Not many people seem to care for it. There are plenty of players that I can't stand but at least I respect them because they earned it. Manziel hasn't earned anything yet.
matuski
Footballguy
Dude is one of the greatest college football players... ever.
I would ask what it takes to earn respect? Sounds more like a moral judgement than a grading of his resume.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Knowing the plays would be a start. Staying out of rehab. Less photos with rolled up bills in the bathroom.
* Matt Leinart had great college stats, but their importance quickly receded and faded in the rear view mirror, once it became apparent that he was more serious about partying, and was clueless on the plays, where the offense lined up, what defenses were doing. It doesn't mean he can't improve, but he didn't do much to earn respect last year. Pretty much the complete opposite. And the respect (or lack thereof) of his coaches and teammates is more important and meaningful than here. It is as incidental to his NFL career arc and trajectory that you may respect his college record, as somebody else here disrespecting his rookie season. Neither matters to him. Either he has an internal locus of control (he can maintain his confidence independent of the perceptions of others, if so, bully for him), or he doesn't, which might not bode well for his future.
* Matt Leinart had great college stats, but their importance quickly receded and faded in the rear view mirror, once it became apparent that he was more serious about partying, and was clueless on the plays, where the offense lined up, what defenses were doing. It doesn't mean he can't improve, but he didn't do much to earn respect last year. Pretty much the complete opposite. And the respect (or lack thereof) of his coaches and teammates is more important and meaningful than here. It is as incidental to his NFL career arc and trajectory that you may respect his college record, as somebody else here disrespecting his rookie season. Neither matters to him. Either he has an internal locus of control (he can maintain his confidence independent of the perceptions of others, if so, bully for him), or he doesn't, which might not bode well for his future.
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pantherclub
Footballguy
Nobody cares how many TD's Al Bundy scored in that high school game. Why? It was little league ball. Just like college. You don't get respect as a pro football player by being good in college any more than you earn it in the business world by getting an A in Accounting 101. You enter professional life with a zero in the respect column either way, and start earning it from day one...or you don't.
People aren't setting the bar too high just because they want to see the guy look like more than the league's worst backup QB. Not any more than they were by mocking the efforts of Andre Ware, Robbie Bosco, or Gino Torretta. Playing great in college is interesting and relevant right up until you leave campus and sign a pro contract. But after that, you start getting compared to your new peers -- other pro QB's -- and Johnny is worst in class. And really, all available evidence suggests he just ought to drop the class entirely.
G
General Tso
Guest
I'm pulling for Johnny. I've been in and out of recovery (mostly in) for the better part of 31 years and I know full well what he's going through. I've met a lot of famous people over the years in 12 step recovery programs, even sponsored one. I've seen some people embrace the freedom and health that comes with clean living and watch as their careers completely turn around for the better. And unfortunately I've also seen others who really struggle with it, and view the loss of the wild life as almost losing a piece of their spirit. I don't know Johnny Manziel at all, but I have to admit - I'm a little worried that the sober life is going to be a very tough adjustment for him. Hope I'm wrong.
Sunday Devil
Footballguy
If you look at legitimate successful NFL quarterbacks, not necessarily winning QBs, you will see they have a smooth throwing motion that is quick, seamless, and natural. You can tell these guys have a natural skill to throw the ball, Teddy B is perfect example, as matter of fact when he was drafted I thought Teddt was too slim for the NFL, then I saw his throwing mechanics and I became a believer in his potential to the a franchise QB given he put in the work in all the other facets being an NFL QB.This is ridiculous.This is not a mark in Manziel's favor. It means there's little to no upside in his arm strength, which is currently so unusably poor at the NFL level that he was literally laughed off the field by opponents and fans alike.
Which goes once again to the point: Johnny can turn his life around and become a better person, and indeed we should all hope he does, but there's no rehab for small and weak-armed.
There's no sane reason to hope Manziel makes up both an unbreachable gap in athleticism versus most NFL QB's, AND a decade-plus long gap in preparation versus the successful physical outliers.
I think the only sane argument one could make would be that with the world's best trainer's devoting backup QB reps to him for the next several years, maybe he could enter his 30's as a viable NFL QB. But I can't see anyone pissing away salary and roster space on him nearly that long. This story is just about over, I'm afraid.
First off Manziel could very well increase his arm strength but even at this stage he has plenty of arm strength to make all NFL throws. If he fails it won't be due to arm strength. If he fails it will be due to not making his reads, not taking the time to go through his progressions and leaving the pocket too soon.
I get people questioning his character or work ethic as that has clearly been an issue but the arm strength thing after he has attempted a whopping 35 throws in the NFL is a complete reach.
People used to question Drew Brees arm strength coming out of college and early in his career as well. Heck Russell Wilson who throws one of the best deep balls in the game was being questioned by some if he would have the arm strength coming out of college. Manziel and other small qb's don't fit 6'5 qb mold which leads some to look for and question some things that may not be there.
Keep in mind his pro day...
"He showed us he can make all the throws," NFL Network analyst Kurt Warner said. "That deep ball was impeccable. Great touch, good enough velocity and was able to set it out there."
"Mayock compared Manziel's arm strength with the other top quarterback prospects in this year's draft -- Blake Bortles and Teddy Bridgewater -- and said Manziel's arm was at least as strong as Bortles' and looks stronger than Bridgewater's. Mayock raved about Manziel's competitiveness and said Manziel confirmed that he can make every throw mechanically."
I put a lot of emphasis in throwing mechanics and motion because that is the essential physical tool that will allow any QB to be accurate and make the necessary throws to his pass catchers. Look at Wilson throw the ball then watch tape of Manziel throwing the ball, the mechanics are similar, both very seamless.
I see Manziel's film and to me he looks like someone who can throw the ball like a pro. Right now Manziel's is his own enemy, but I definitely think he has the tools to succeed in the NFL, he just needs to put in the work. If Tebow won some games in the NFL with his terrible throwing mechanics, the odds are in favor of maziel doing the same, if not more. Of course that all implies that he will put in the work and get his head in the right place.
Old Smiley
Footballguy
Pretty tough place to do the sobriety thing. (edit: especially if he's not really ready) I don't know....
The man has skills. He's an athlete. I don't think you need to be outlier smart to learn an offense. I think it's possible he could be a poor man's Tarkenton. Or maybe even a regular Tarkenton.
But (and this is what I hope to be able to find out on the field) I don't think he can run around and sandlot it up against NFL players. I don't think he's fast enough.
The man has skills. He's an athlete. I don't think you need to be outlier smart to learn an offense. I think it's possible he could be a poor man's Tarkenton. Or maybe even a regular Tarkenton.
But (and this is what I hope to be able to find out on the field) I don't think he can run around and sandlot it up against NFL players. I don't think he's fast enough.
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Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Don't make me laugh. He did well in college but I've seen too many of his passes caught because of the skill of the WR than the skill of his arm. I'll give him credit for extending the play in order to make the jump ball.
He is VERY far from greatest of all time. Don't make yourself sound silly.
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
I don't think it is a reach to say Manziel is arguably one of the greatest college performers of all time. You say he did well in college? LOL. You might want to go back and look at the numbers. I think he did better than well.
Now this does not mean his game will translate to the pros, but ignoring how great Manziel was in college is the thing that would be silly.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Manziel was a great running QB, as were Tebow and RG3, two other QBs that have struggled or failed to become pocket passers in their NFL transition.
As a pure passer, which is more relevant to Manziel's NFL projection, where would he fit all time collegiately? Not all that high, I'm guessing.
* IMO, people are maybe talking about different things and talking across each other. Partly what started this tangent was that Manziel "should" be respected for his college exploits. As a college player, sure. As a pro, it isn't very meaningful at this point, if he doesn't look a lot better than he did as a rookie. At this point, if he felt a sense of entitlement as the first rounder or coasted on his reputation because he was "the man" in college (partying instead of learning the plays seemed consistent with this) isn't going to cut it at this level.
I did expect him to do better, and rehab was a good step for him, so I'm curious what he could do if he applies himself and works harder. Unfortunately, he dug himself such a deep hole, it is unclear if he will get a chance any time soon. He probably ceded his chance to McCown for now. But how many people respect him or don't respect him means zero to his NFL future. It is all on him. He needs to party less, work harder and stop acting entitled. One way he can do this is to prepare like a starter every week even if he isn't the starter. That increases his chance of success if/when he gets his next chance. Anything short of that level of attitude and preparation would imo be an extremely bad sign for his future.
One thing that we know NOW that we didn't know this time last year, besides the appallingly poor lack of preparation, is he won't be able to run around in the NFL like he did in college. So if you take away the singular thing that made him special, it is unclear what you have left. The late Michael Jackson was a wonderful overall entertainer, but how would his professional career have unfolded differently if he was unable to sing?
As a pure passer, which is more relevant to Manziel's NFL projection, where would he fit all time collegiately? Not all that high, I'm guessing.
* IMO, people are maybe talking about different things and talking across each other. Partly what started this tangent was that Manziel "should" be respected for his college exploits. As a college player, sure. As a pro, it isn't very meaningful at this point, if he doesn't look a lot better than he did as a rookie. At this point, if he felt a sense of entitlement as the first rounder or coasted on his reputation because he was "the man" in college (partying instead of learning the plays seemed consistent with this) isn't going to cut it at this level.
I did expect him to do better, and rehab was a good step for him, so I'm curious what he could do if he applies himself and works harder. Unfortunately, he dug himself such a deep hole, it is unclear if he will get a chance any time soon. He probably ceded his chance to McCown for now. But how many people respect him or don't respect him means zero to his NFL future. It is all on him. He needs to party less, work harder and stop acting entitled. One way he can do this is to prepare like a starter every week even if he isn't the starter. That increases his chance of success if/when he gets his next chance. Anything short of that level of attitude and preparation would imo be an extremely bad sign for his future.
One thing that we know NOW that we didn't know this time last year, besides the appallingly poor lack of preparation, is he won't be able to run around in the NFL like he did in college. So if you take away the singular thing that made him special, it is unclear what you have left. The late Michael Jackson was a wonderful overall entertainer, but how would his professional career have unfolded differently if he was unable to sing?
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
Next!
