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Sliding doors plays that transformed legacies (1 Viewer)

ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
Was listening to a podcast the other day (might have been The Athletic Football Show) where a guy was talking about Stafford and the trade to the Rams, and then he paused and said, "Of course, if Jaquiski Tartt doesn't drop an absolute gimme of an interception, we're having a totally different conversation."

Obviously, if you define it broadly enough, any play could be a "sliding doors" moment. There's a big game, someone wins, someone loses, and that ends up playing a role in how we think about each of them. But there are a couple things that make the Stafford play stand out (and one that doesn't). For one, it easily could have -- hell, almost definitely should have -- gone the other way. This was the easiest INT Tartt or any other DB will ever see. And if he makes it and the Rams go on to lose, it's not just that they don't go to the Super Bowl, it's that they don't go because of a horrible throw by Stafford. All of a sudden maybe that wasn't such a great trade by the Rams. And then we might not get the whole "You have to upgrade your QB" movement that led to the Wilson and Watson trades, and we're looking at a very different league.

(The one thing cutting against my analysis: I could have sworn that the play took place much later in the 4th quarter, but watching the replay, I realized there were nine minutes left and the Niners were clinging to a three-point lead. So it's not like they definitely would have won if Tartt catches that ball. In fact, given the way that Stafford and Kupp came through in the clutch and Jimmy G wilted, maybe the game would have ended the exact same way.)

The all-time example of what I'm talking about has to be the Butler INT. If Seattle scores there, they become only the second team this century to win back-to-backs, Carroll and Wilson become legends, and Jermaine Kearse is signing autographs next to David Tyree at memorabilia conventions for the next two decades. Meanwhile, the Pats and Brady would have followed three Super Bowl wins with three straight losses, and all the sports chatter is whether they've lost their mojo.

The Tuck Rule game is another great example. If that's ruled a fumble, the Pats lose, they don't jumpstart their dynasty, and maybe Belichick doesn't stick with Brady the following year. After all, at that point he would have just been a backup who performed decently while filling in before flaming out in his first playoff game.

Another example: In the final week of the 2003 season, Josh McCown threw a TD on the game's final play to beat Minnesota, knocking the Vikings out of the playoffs and the Cardinals out of the top draft spot. I don't know how much damage the Vikings would have done in the playoffs, but Arizona missed out on a chance to draft Eli or Rivers (given the Cardinals' history, I suspect Archie would have forced the same trade from them as he did from San Diego).

What are some others?
 
As a Bears fan I sometimes think about what would have happened if the infamous "double doink" field goal had gone in against the eagles. That was such a harsh end to a very solid 2018 season, it really destroyed the idea that the Bears were building something good in Nagy's first year. I don't think the Bears would have gone very much further in the playoffs but a playoff win or two might have earned Nagy a bit longer leash.

I also think about the Patriots. While they have been on the winning side of luck for several of their big superbowls, they have also had some really bizarre plays go against them. It isn't hard to imagine a few more plays going their way and the team having 3 more superbowls. I bring that up because, if the patriots had 9 superbowls (and brady had 10) it would, perhaps be the single greatest run in professional sports history, never to be matched. The Patriots success may still never be matched, but it would have been so ridiculously over the top if they had gone 9/9 in superbowls, and each superbowl had a few plays, or decisions (like benching Malcom Butler) that could easily have swung the results the other way.
 
The no call of blatant pass interference during the Saints-Rams playoff game in 2019 that let the Rams go the Super Bowl. Whole lot of knock-on effects from that:
1. Brees gets to compete in another Super Bowl
2. Pats and Brady might have lost against NO instead of a weak Rams team
3. Goff might not have gotten another go as starter in 2020
4. Rams might draft Jalen Hurts to replace Goff instead of Cam Akers
5. Trade for Stafford never happens
 
How about the blocked punt in the fourth quarter of GB-SFO two years ago? Knocks Rodgers out of potentially another Super Bowl run which would have made him very hard to not extend in Green Bay, gets Garoppolo another year at QB in SFO, eventually resulting in the trade of Trey Lance and the rise of Brock Purdy.
 
Interesting topic. The 1st one I thought of was the San Diego Chargers Marlon McCree fumbling on an Int return and giving the ball back to Brady for a game tying TD drive in a game the Chargers would go on to lose. I thought there was much less time left when it happened because I remembered yelling at him to go down after he picked off Brady. This is a good article on the possible ramifications (I love how this single play could have been the difference between SD having a pro football team or losing them to LA):

https://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/20...c-playoffs-chargers-patriots-super-bowl-bears
 
My favorite is when someone like Scott Norwood determines who's a "Superbowl winning QB" and who isn't. They played the exact same game but yet are typecast as one or the other due to something they had zero to do with.
Yes, exactly. That's part of what makes these so notable. They change our opinions for reasons having nothing to do with the players themselves.

That Super Bowl is also helped put Belichick on the map and led to him getting the Cleveland job
 
Since a lot of people talk about plays where the Pats benefited, I'll play devil's advocate. From the two Giants SBs, if Welker hangs onto an easy catch in SB46 and Asante Samuel doesn't drop that INT in SB42..then Eli Manning's career goes from HOFer to pretty disappointing, despite him not doing anything differently. Also, Brady would look even more legendary despite not doing anything differently.
 
The Tartt INT wouldn't have clinched the game for the 49ers (there were still 9:47 left to be played and 49ers only up 3). A more extreme example is Asante Samuel dropping the INT that would've ended Super Bowl 42 with one team laying claim to the greatest team of all-time with a 19-0 record and the other being just another victim of the Patriots dynasty. There was 1:16 left on the clock and the Giants couldn't stop the clock enough to get the ball back with only 2 timeouts remaining. Instead on the very next play the helmet catch happened and changed the course of history.

(Now I'm mad that I had to relive that, smh)
 
Baltimore’s Lee Evans dropping the winning TD in the 2011 AFC Championship Game at New England

Followed by Flacco hitting the Mile High Miracle at Denver in 2012

If that pass never connects, Harbaugh is fired by now and Flacco is just a guy. Or if the Evans pass connects, maybe Ravens are back to back Super Bowl champs

So it all nets out at one Super Bowl for Flacco which seems fair
 
2002: a series of bad on-field play, dumb penalties, and maybe a controversial call or 2, and the NY Football Giants coughed up a 24 point comeback to lose 39-38 at Candlestick.

That was a very, very good Giants team, with Shockey & Tiki in their prime, Jim Fassel their HC, and a legit contender for the SB title.

Not that the Giants didn’t shoot themselves in the foot, but that ineligible receiver call decided the game, and dude did in fact report as eligible.
 
Not to keep picking on the Patriots, but the 2016 Super Bowl. 3rd and 1 from their own end, and the Falcons up 16 with like 8 minutes left call a pass where Matt Ryan (who played a perfect game otherwise) gets strip sacked jump starting the Pats comeback.

Atlanta runs and gets the 1st, the game is essentially over. Even if they get stopped and punt, NE loses 40 seconds, that they needed, and has to go 50 yards further.

Matt Ryan wins, and he has a HOF case. 2016 Matt Ryan is thought of as one of the greatest QB seasons in history, as he would have won MVP and Super Bowl MVP, and had the 2nd highest playoff passer rating of any Super Bowl winner ever, behind only 1989 Joe Montana, and perhaps the NE decline (or Brady leaving) starts sooner.
 
Here's one for you: 30 seconds left in a six-point game in the NFC Championship Game, Kaepernick throws a ball to the corner of the end zone, deflected by Sherman and intercepted by Malcolm Smith. If that pass is completed, Kaepernick takes the Niners to the Super Bowl two years in a row, and plays against a weak Denver Broncos team that the Seahawks beat 43-8. Kaepernick as Super Bowl champion could have changed a lot of narrative about his subsequent actions. Also could have kept Jim Harbaugh in town.
 
Was listening to a podcast the other day (might have been The Athletic Football Show) where a guy was talking about Stafford and the trade to the Rams, and then he paused and said, "Of course, if Jaquiski Tartt doesn't drop an absolute gimme of an interception, we're having a totally different conversation."

Obviously, if you define it broadly enough, any play could be a "sliding doors" moment. There's a big game, someone wins, someone loses, and that ends up playing a role in how we think about each of them. But there are a couple things that make the Stafford play stand out (and one that doesn't). For one, it easily could have -- hell, almost definitely should have -- gone the other way. This was the easiest INT Tartt or any other DB will ever see. And if he makes it and the Rams go on to lose, it's not just that they don't go to the Super Bowl, it's that they don't go because of a horrible throw by Stafford. All of a sudden maybe that wasn't such a great trade by the Rams. And then we might not get the whole "You have to upgrade your QB" movement that led to the Wilson and Watson trades, and we're looking at a very different league.
Can trace the 2021 Rams back even further. Divisional Round vs TB, after blowing a 27-3 lead from the late 3rd quarter, TB ties it at 27 with 42 seconds left. They have all the momentum in the world, and everyone is just thinking, "Really? Brady is gonna do it again isn't he?"

All TB has to do is not let the Rams with no timeouts, and 35 seconds left from their own 24 get into FG range. 1st play TB stupidly doesn't guard the sidelines and lets Kupp get 20 and out of bounds. 2nd play, there is a coverage miscommunication and Kupp goes for 44 yards up the seam, they are able to spike it with 5 seconds left and get the FG. If the 1st pass doesn't get out of bounds, it goes to OT, if the miscommunication doesn't happen we go to OT.

The Rams kinda had a horseshoe up their butt that whole playoff run, they could have easily lost all 3 of the TB, SF, Cin games, and like you implied, if the Rams don't advance further with Stafford than they did with Goff, it changes a lot of things in 22-23. We also probably have a slightly different view of McVay if he blows that lead.
 
When the Chiefs played the Patriots in Mahomes first year as a starter in the AFC Championship game and they called Dee Ford offsides on what appeared to be the game winning interception by the Chiefs.

I firmly believe that Chiefs offense kicks the crap outta the Rams in the Super Bowl.
 
When the Chiefs played the Patriots in Mahomes first year as a starter in the AFC Championship game and they called Dee Ford offsides on what appeared to be the game winning interception by the Chiefs.

I firmly believe that Chiefs offense kicks the crap outta the Rams in the Super Bowl.
I thought about that one, and it was certainly big at the time, but I'm not sure how much it changed any legacies. It allowed Brady and the Pats to win another Super Bowl, but their legacies were mostly fixed at that point. And Mahomes won his SB the following year
 
Not to keep picking on the Patriots, but the 2016 Super Bowl. 3rd and 1 from their own end, and the Falcons up 16 with like 8 minutes left call a pass where Matt Ryan (who played a perfect game otherwise) gets strip sacked jump starting the Pats comeback.

Atlanta runs and gets the 1st, the game is essentially over. Even if they get stopped and punt, NE loses 40 seconds, that they needed, and has to go 50 yards further.

Matt Ryan wins, and he has a HOF case. 2016 Matt Ryan is thought of as one of the greatest QB seasons in history, as he would have won MVP and Super Bowl MVP, and had the 2nd highest playoff passer rating of any Super Bowl winner ever, behind only 1989 Joe Montana, and perhaps the NE decline (or Brady leaving) starts sooner.Take i
Take it one step further: After the game, Shanahan was criticized (some of it justifiably, most not IMO) for his play calling in the second half. But on that play, he actually had a WR (Taylor Gabriel?) open deep behind the secondary. Only problem was, Devonta Freeman whiffed the block on Hightower, allowing the sack. If he picks him up, good chance Ryan throws a game-sealing TD, and not only does Shanahan not get vilified, everyone is praising him for being "gutsy" and "keeping his foot on the pedal". Instead he's known not just for that game, but also for blowing a 4th quarter lead a few years later against the Chiefs -- in a game where he once again had a WR open deep, only for Jimmy G to overthrow him
 
Was listening to a podcast the other day (might have been The Athletic Football Show) where a guy was talking about Stafford and the trade to the Rams, and then he paused and said, "Of course, if Jaquiski Tartt doesn't drop an absolute gimme of an interception, we're having a totally different conversation."

Obviously, if you define it broadly enough, any play could be a "sliding doors" moment. There's a big game, someone wins, someone loses, and that ends up playing a role in how we think about each of them. But there are a couple things that make the Stafford play stand out (and one that doesn't). For one, it easily could have -- hell, almost definitely should have -- gone the other way. This was the easiest INT Tartt or any other DB will ever see. And if he makes it and the Rams go on to lose, it's not just that they don't go to the Super Bowl, it's that they don't go because of a horrible throw by Stafford. All of a sudden maybe that wasn't such a great trade by the Rams. And then we might not get the whole "You have to upgrade your QB" movement that led to the Wilson and Watson trades, and we're looking at a very different league.
Can trace the 2021 Rams back even further. Divisional Round vs TB, after blowing a 27-3 lead from the late 3rd quarter, TB ties it at 27 with 42 seconds left. They have all the momentum in the world, and everyone is just thinking, "Really? Brady is gonna do it again isn't he?"

All TB has to do is not let the Rams with no timeouts, and 35 seconds left from their own 24 get into FG range. 1st play TB stupidly doesn't guard the sidelines and lets Kupp get 20 and out of bounds. 2nd play, there is a coverage miscommunication and Kupp goes for 44 yards up the seam, they are able to spike it with 5 seconds left and get the FG. If the 1st pass doesn't get out of bounds, it goes to OT, if the miscommunication doesn't happen we go to OT.

The Rams kinda had a horseshoe up their butt that whole playoff run, they could have easily lost all 3 of the TB, SF, Cin games, and like you implied, if the Rams don't advance further with Stafford than they did with Goff, it changes a lot of things in 22-23. We also probably have a slightly different view of McVay if he blows that lead.
Wasn't that the early game on the same day as the "13 seconds" game? I feel like it ended up getting overshadowed as a result.

Speaking of which, KC-Buffalo would have been a great example if the Chiefs hadn't biffed the AFCCG the following week, making the long-term legacy kind of cloudy. Maybe Buffalo would have beaten Cinci, but it's hard to say -- the Bengals were another team with a horseshoe up their butts, plus Buffalo finally got the matchup with Cinci last year and got destroyed
 
When the Chiefs played the Patriots in Mahomes first year as a starter in the AFC Championship game and they called Dee Ford offsides on what appeared to be the game winning interception by the Chiefs.

I firmly believe that Chiefs offense kicks the crap outta the Rams in the Super Bowl.
I thought about that one, and it was certainly big at the time, but I'm not sure how much it changed any legacies. It allowed Brady and the Pats to win another Super Bowl, but their legacies were mostly fixed at that point. And Mahomes won his SB the following year
It changed the legacy of my liver.
 
Baltimore’s Lee Evans dropping the winning TD in the 2011 AFC Championship Ga; me at New England

Followed by Flacco hitting the Mile High Miracle at Denver in 2012

If that pass never connects, Harbaugh is fired by now and Flacco is just a guy. Or if the Evans pass connects, maybe Ravens are back to back Super Bowl champs

So it all nets out at one Super Bowl for Flacco which seems fair
The thing about the Mile High Miracle is that on the one hand, it didn't really shape people's impressions of Flacco; everyone recognized he was good-not-great QB who went on an all-time hot streak. At the same time, Flacco was playing for a new contract that offseason. After he won the SB, Baltimore had to pay him, and the contract they gave him hamstrung the franchise for the next few years; they only made one more playoff appearance during the rest of his tenure as starter. It's an interesting question what they would have done if he had lost in the divisional round
 
A single play seemed to decide SF vs Chiefs SB, and it wasn’t the 4th and forever pass over Emmanuel Sanders head.

49ers were up 20-10, with seemingly all the momentum.

It’s 3rd & 15, Niners about to get the ball back. There’s ~6 mins on the clock.

Mahomes somehow escapes pressure, buys time, and Tyreek Hill breaks the hearts of 49er fans everywhere. 44 yards, 1st down.

Next thing ya know, it’s 20-17, but it felt like the Chiefs took the lead. Sure enough, the momentum fully shifted to the Chiefs and that was all she wrote.

That 1 play did all of that. Up until that point, the Niners had Mahomes flummoxed. 2 picks, Chiefs hadn’t scored since the 1st quarter.

Stop Mahomes, and Niners can at least run a few more mins off the clock. Maybe even go up 23-10 or 27-10 with 2-4 mins left.

Garappolo’s legacy is completely different. He’s a SB-winning QB. Who knows what happens - do they still draft Lance? Probably no Purdy. JimmyG proves he can win the big one and he still might be their QB today.

Speculation, but possible. 1 play changed it all.
 
Jackie Smith.
“Oh bless his heart he’s got to be the sickest man in America!”

Just literally the only person in the end zone and right into the bread basket.

One of the worst, but that was in the 3rd quarter. Lot of game left.

Staubach blamed Landry for it.
“We shouldn’t have ever called that play,” Staubach would say many years later. “We can blame what happened on Coach Landry.
 
2017 NFC Divisional Round. Eagles leading Falcons 15-10 with Atlanta driving late. They get to 1st and goal with just over a minute left, but the drive stalls out, including a 4th down target where Julio slips in the end zone. If Atlanta scores there and wins the game, they go to their second straight NFCCG, maybe make it back to the Super Bowl.

Meanwhile, up to that point Foles hadn't done much in his first few games filling in for Wentz; in the Atlanta game, he had 246/0/0. It was only in the next two games where he went absolutely nuts (352/3/0 in the NFCCG, 373/3/1 in the SB). If Philly loses there, not only do they not win their first-ever Super Bowl, not only is there no Philly Special, but the story is that the Eagles were screwed once Wentz went down, and Foles actually gets charged for beers when he walks into a bar on South Street
 
The no call of blatant pass interference during the Saints-Rams playoff game in 2019 that let the Rams go the Super Bowl. Whole lot of knock-on effects from that:
1. Brees gets to compete in another Super Bowl
2. Pats and Brady might have lost against NO instead of a weak Rams team
3. Goff might not have gotten another go as starter in 2020
4. Rams might draft Jalen Hurts to replace Goff instead of Cam Akers
5. Trade for Stafford never happens
Saints had a brutal run of sliding doors plays in the last few years of the Brees/Payton era.

2017: Minneapolis Miracle
2018: Missed DPI
2019: Missed OPI on Kyle Rudolph on his game-winning TD catch in OT
2020: Jared Cook fumble. Can't definitively say the game would have gone differently, but I remember in the moment it felt like NO was in control. They were up 7 and driving to make it a two-score game. Instead, TB tied it up five plays later, and NO never scored again.

No single one of those plays would have guaranteed a Super Bowl win had they gone differently, but it feels like if not for the cumulative impact of all of them, Brees might have a second ring
 
The greatest 80 seconds of NFL football ever, Super Bowl XLII.

obviously David Tyree’s helmet catch is the highlight we all remember. But Eli was almost sacked by Adalius Thomas before he escaped to throw that pass.
Before that, Asante Samuel misses what should have been an interception.

After the giants take the lead Brady underthrows a double covered Randy Moss by inches on 3rd and 20, and barely misses him deep again on 4th and 20.

Clearly Brady’s legacy isn’t harmed by those plays, and Eli would still be Peyton’s brother, but his HoF credentials largely ride on winning two rings. Any of those plays go differently and he isn’t really considered for the hall.
 
Baltimore’s Lee Evans dropping the winning TD in the 2011 AFC Championship Game at New England

Followed by Flacco hitting the Mile High Miracle at Denver in 2012

If that pass never connects, Harbaugh is fired by now and Flacco is just a guy. Or if the Evans pass connects, maybe Ravens are back to back Super Bowl champs

So it all nets out at one Super Bowl for Flacco which seems fair
Don't forget Billy effing Cundiff :mad:
 
The greatest 80 seconds of NFL football ever, Super Bowl XLII.

obviously David Tyree’s helmet catch is the highlight we all remember. But Eli was almost sacked by Adalius Thomas before he escaped to throw that pass.
Before that, Asante Samuel misses what should have been an interception.

After the giants take the lead Brady underthrows a double covered Randy Moss by inches on 3rd and 20, and barely misses him deep again on 4th and 20.

Clearly Brady’s legacy isn’t harmed by those plays, and Eli would still be Peyton’s brother, but his HoF credentials largely ride on winning two rings. Any of those plays go differently and he isn’t really considered for the hall.
Good calls. Have to give the Giants full credit for winning, but the Patriots did everything in their power that game to avoid having an undefeated season.
 
If Lovie had stuck with Thomas Jones and not brought Cedric Benson in to fumble on the second drive against the Colts in 2006 then Peyton likely goes down in history like Marino and Bears wouldn't be staring into a superbowl abyss. And I'd feel like watching my VHS copy with the only good halftime show I can remember (Prince).
 
The tuck rule. Siragusa crushing Gannon. Barrett Robbins goes awol and Callahan doesn’t change the audibles. Raiders probably get 1 SB in that run.
 
If Lovie had stuck with Thomas Jones and not brought Cedric Benson in to fumble on the second drive against the Colts in 2006 then Peyton likely goes down in history like Marino and Bears wouldn't be staring into a superbowl abyss. And I'd feel like watching my VHS copy with the only good halftime show I can remember (Prince).
It’s been years, but I don’t remember a minute of that game where I thought the Bears were in position to win, not even after they took back the opening kickoff
 
they were up 14-6 and had the ball at midfield. guess I never thought Peyton was that good. but the biggest play of 2006 was when Mike Brown got hurt end of the monday night Cardinals game, week 6 or so. end of his career sadly. under-rated leader and playmaker, top 5 all-time bear to me (only).
 

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