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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (7 Viewers)

Zow said:

What did he do?
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Schiff once paraphrased Trump's words while making it clear that he was not directly quoting Trump.

Trump supporters have seized on this incident as The Worst Thing That Anyone Has Ever Done In The History Of The World.

I believe they are actually calling it #misquotegate

(Nevermind the fact that Trump himself has misquoted people dozens of times. Apparently that doesn't count for some reason.)

It would be a hilarious footnote if Trump supporters didn't take it so unironically seriously.

(Actually, it still is a hilarious footnote.)
 
What is there to debate now? It’s all laid out.

The only arguments left are all these people were just going rouge and misunderstood their orders or that it doesn’t matter what Trump did.

What else is there?

 
OrtonToOlsen said:
Every one of his kids, with the exception of Tiffany, support/enable/condone/encourage/etc their father’s dispicable behavior.  

And before you try to bring it up...NO I would not do the same for my father if he was anything like Trump.
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If this is true , which I don’t believe it is, can you explain what Barron has done to make you come to this conclusion?

 
Zow said:
Oh. 

Do you think it would be worthwhile for us to ask somebody with a dozen years plus of experience handling high level criminal matters concerning informants (i.e. whisleblowers, CIs, etc.) and the general process in which information is obtained from them by the prosecuting agency and the investigatory agency? Because I do know a guy who fits this description. 
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Unless he's been a Fox News consultant, his experience is probably worthless.

 
dkp993 said:
For me there isn’t 1 single inch of partisan in my feelings on this.  I thought Trump and his family were despicable long before he ever became a candidate for the Presidency.   🤷‍♂️   
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Any honest broker would agree. 
 

Why the hell are we talking about this?

 
Joe Summer said:
Schiff once paraphrased Trump's words while making it clear that he was not directly quoting Trump.

Trump supporters have seized on this incident as The Worst Thing That Anyone Has Ever Done In The History Of The World.

I believe they are actually calling it #misquotegate

(Nevermind the fact that Trump himself has misquoted people dozens of times. Apparently that doesn't count for some reason.)

It would be a hilarious footnote if Trump supporters didn't take it so unironically seriously.

(Actually, it still is a hilarious footnote.)
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Yep. Here’s Shecky Trump just making up Strozk/Page texts to guffaws and cheers. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qsWwNOGm9Bo&client=mv-google

 
John Blutarsky said:
Not at all, this isn’t a black and white issue. Just because a parent has sole custody doesn’t mean the other parent doesn’t have influence on the kids. Why is anyone arguing about this?  This is unreal.
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And, again, I didn’t say he didn’t have any influence on the kids. You said it doesn’t affect the influence. And I disagree, as a child of divorced parents married to a child of divorced parents.

 
timschochet said:
All of these White House people refusing subpoenas are looking at jail time, sooner rather than later. 
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I hope so. I've been subpoenaed dozens of times for work. 99% of the time, it was just to make sure I showed up, then the person would plead guilty or no contest. Giant waste of time and money, but I went every time. If I can do it, they can do it. Unless they have something to hide. 

Slapdash said:
Very doubtful
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Why do you believe it's doubtful?

 
Biff84 said:
The idea that Rudy and Sondland were doing this without Trumps knowledge is about as likely as Don Jr not telling him about the Trump Tower meeting.

I would not be surprised if the QPQ idea came from Trump hearing about Biden bragging about getting the Ukrainian prosecutor fired.
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The idea that Rudy was sent over to negotiate any terms that weren’t directly approved (or demanded) by Trump is laughable.  It would be like a law firm sending a junior associate to a mediation with full authority to make a deal on behalf of a client. 
absurd on its face. 

 
The General said:
Totally agree on the first point. He has stuck with that odd "perfect call" phrasing too long now. There is also the laughably bad defense that we don't have video of Trump holding a newspaper with the date while admitting to all this type evidence - just everyone that works with him and has to testify saying it was occurring - so we cannot remove him.

This is all so clear. It's right there for everyone to see. 

Sadly don't think Senate will go for this. Hopefully I'm wrong.
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Agree. But let’s be honest.  No chance.  
There could be video of the call where Trump says “until you announce an investigation you’re not getting ####” and the GOP senators would still hold the line. 
 

They only care about power. And their constituents hold the keys.  And they (constituents) don’t care.  Not even a little.  

 
KCitons said:
I see. I think it has to happen to restore order. If not, then it gives the green light to everyone subpoenaed in any investigation to ignore the rules. 
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What has the Democratic leadership done so far that makes you think they will enforce their subpoena power?

 
Right now the most likely outcome is that not a single Republican in the House or Senate will vote to remove or impeach the President. 

Hopefully the voters will make them pay the price for this. 

 
timschochet said:
Right now the most likely outcome is that not a single Republican in the House or Senate will vote to remove or impeach the President. 

Hopefully the voters will make them pay the price for this. 
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If they go forward the way it is now, I don’t think it will happen. They lost momentum with the House vote. Public hearings could bring it back but they really need to get some of these cabinet members in and testify publicly.

Getting John Bolton in could be the push they need. He’s waiting on the court to rule but his testimony could be the public statement that push it over the top. He’s not only highly involved but he’s also the big name that the other witnesses don’t have. The theatrics of his testimony along with the direct information could be damning. He quit the day before aid was released, I believe the same day they found out about the whistleblower. It’s extremely likely that he confronted Trump directly about it and could provide the direct link to Trump that’s missing.

 
whoknew said:
KCitons said:
I see. I think it has to happen to restore order. If not, then it gives the green light to everyone subpoenaed in any investigation to ignore the rules. 
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What has the Democratic leadership done so far that makes you think they will enforce their subpoena power?
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Based on my cursory googling of the topic, the last time throwing someone in jail for contempt of Congress happened with consistency in the 1930s.  This "'action" ranks right up there with the threat of filibuster being enough and not actually making them filibuster.  IMO, it's not going to happen.

 
zoonation said:
Agree. But let’s be honest.  No chance.  
There could be video of the call where Trump says “until you announce an investigation you’re not getting ####” and the GOP senators would still hold the line. 
 

They only care about power. And their constituents hold the keys.  And they (constituents) don’t care.  Not even a little.  
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This would probably register as a much bigger scandal if the same pundits, politicians and news outlets screeching about it hadn't blown their load on the TrumpRussia stuff.  They killed their credibility with that, and by extension any chance this would matter to workaday folks.  

The sanctity of Biden's honor and military aid to Ukraine are boutique issues that don't affect normal people's lives.  It's a scandal driven by elites that glosses over all of Trump's worst crimes.  It won't connect with people enough to matter.  

 
The Commish said:
Based on my cursory googling of the topic, the last time throwing someone in jail for contempt of Congress happened with consistency in the 1930s.  This "'action" ranks right up there with the threat of filibuster being enough and not actually making them filibuster.  IMO, it's not going to happen.
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The 1930's was the last time I had faith in our political representatives.  ;)

When people ask, "how did we get here?", they only need to look at the erosion of laws and lack of ability to uphold the Constitution. That's the basic job of those in DC. Accountability of those that represent us should be at the forefront of every election moving forward. Acts of self preservation should be an automatic vote against. 

 
toshiba said:
Leader?  He's not leading anyone.

And this is not good. We have a president who is about to be impeached for doing things that I think nearly everyone, prior to drinking the Trump Kool-Aid, would agree is deplorable!
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I think Trump should be impeached for helping Saudi Arabia disintegrate children in Yemen, or his collusion with Israel, or his abhorrent treatment of immigrants, or perhaps, and I'm just thinking out loud here, enforcing brutal sanctions on Venezuela that killed an estimated 40k people since 2017.  Any number of things that have impacted the wellbeing of regular people. 

I don't care if he wanted Biden investigated- Biden overthrew Ukraine and his son got a cush job 2 months later.  Of course it's corruption.  People aren't gonna sit here and clutch pearls for that.  

There are so many parallels to the Russia investigation in terms of protecting the sensibilities of ruling elites, in the face of brutal plain as day crimes that actually affect people's lives, it's really quite amazing.  

 
ren hoek said:
toshiba said:
Leader?  He's not leading anyone.

And this is not good. We have a president who is about to be impeached for doing things that I think nearly everyone, prior to drinking the Trump Kool-Aid, would agree is deplorable!
Click to expand...
I think Trump should be impeached for helping Saudi Arabia disintegrate children in Yemen, or his collusion with Israel, or his abhorrent treatment of immigrants, or perhaps, and I'm just thinking out loud here, enforcing brutal sanctions on Venezuela that killed an estimated 40k people since 2017.  Any number of things that have impacted the wellbeing of regular people. 

I don't care if he wanted Biden investigated- Biden overthrew Ukraine and his son got a cush job 2 months later.  Of course it's corruption.  People aren't gonna sit here and clutch pearls for that.  

There are so many parallels to the Russia investigation in terms of protecting the sensibilities of ruling elites, in the face of brutal plain as day crimes that actually affect people's lives, it's really quite amazing.  
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I would be interested in your though on why you think he should be impeached, but can you please start a new thread on those topics? I will gladly participate. 

 
KCitons said:
I hope so. I've been subpoenaed dozens of times for work. 99% of the time, it was just to make sure I showed up, then the person would plead guilty or no contest. Giant waste of time and money, but I went every time. If I can do it, they can do it. Unless they have something to hide. 

Why do you believe it's doubtful?
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As a defense attorney, I hope what I'm about to say comes as a solace: it wasn't. 

I imagine what happened is that a contested hearing was set to see if the necessary witness(es) show up for the state to be able to prove its case. This likely means you. If the necessary witness is there, the defendant is now in a position where pushing forward isn't wise and taking the plea is more favorable. But, if you hadn't shown up, it's very possible the defendant would have either been acquitted or the matter dismissed outright. 

 
Zow said:
As a defense attorney, I hope what I'm about to say comes as a solace: it wasn't. 

I imagine what happened is that a contested hearing was set to see if the necessary witness(es) show up for the state to be able to prove its case. This likely means you. If the necessary witness is there, the defendant is now in a position where pushing forward isn't wise and taking the plea is more favorable. But, if you hadn't shown up, it's very possible the defendant would have either been acquitted or the matter dismissed outright. 
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That is exactly what happened. If my car broke down or I was in the hospital, the case was dismissed. There was no downside for the defendant. I was rarely asked to testify. Just my presence was enough. 

However, if I just ignored the subpoena, I could still be held accountable. Those laws apply to everyone. Which is why I think we need to arrest witnesses that don't comply, regardless of party. 

 
KCitons said:
That is exactly what happened. If my car broke down or I was in the hospital, the case was dismissed. There was no downside for the defendant. I was rarely asked to testify. Just my presence was enough. 

However, if I just ignored the subpoena, I could still be held accountable. Those laws apply to everyone. Which is why I think we need to arrest witnesses that don't comply, regardless of party. 
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I have seen a domestic violence victim jailed for now showing up to court when subpoenaed. 

 
Biff84 said:
If they go forward the way it is now, I don’t think it will happen. They lost momentum with the House vote. Public hearings could bring it back but they really need to get some of these cabinet members in and testify publicly.

Getting John Bolton in could be the push they need. He’s waiting on the court to rule but his testimony could be the public statement that push it over the top. He’s not only highly involved but he’s also the big name that the other witnesses don’t have. The theatrics of his testimony along with the direct information could be damning. He quit the day before aid was released, I believe the same day they found out about the whistleblower. It’s extremely likely that he confronted Trump directly about it and could provide the direct link to Trump that’s missing.
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Bolton is not going to happen. He said that even with a subpoena, he won’t go until the judge rules on his and his assistant’s appeal, and the judge in charge of that scheduled a hearing date for December 6, and a ruling who knows how long after that. And then possible appeals. It’s too long which was the whole point. 

They have to go with what they have. I say the public hearings will do the trick. 

 
timschochet said:
Trump just now: the whistleblower should be revealed and should be tried for treason. 
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Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. 

I guess maybe treason against the President is different.

 
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