BladeRunner
Footballguy
The trend downward keeps on being reinforced.
Trump is done. Has been for a while. The only reason he's news is because the MSM keeps making him as the news.
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***OFFICIAL Trump vs. DeSantis Thread*** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter knowledge dropper
- Start date
The trend downward keeps on being reinforced.
Trump is done. Has been for a while. The only reason he's news is because the MSM keeps making him as the news.
massraider
Footballguy
MAGA Pundits Start to Take Sides in Trump-DeSantis War
Things are heating up in the Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis 2024 battle, as pro-Trump lawyer Lin Wood has accused DeSantis of “ignor[ing]” not only “rigged elections” but also turning a blind eye to “child sex trafficking.” https://t.co/3lDm4t7oCB
Things are heating up in the Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis 2024 battle, as pro-Trump lawyer Lin Wood has accused DeSantis of “ignor[ing]” not only “rigged elections” but also turning a blind eye to “child sex trafficking.” https://t.co/3lDm4t7oCB
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
you keep saying this and it’s baloneyThe trend downward keeps on being reinforced.
Trump is done. Has been for a while. The only reason he's news is because the MSM keeps making him as the news.
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ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
I thought this was a good column on DeSantis. I hesitate to call it "balanced" because Miller is a hard-core Never Trumper and I'm sure plenty of people here will disagree with him, but what I will say is that he captures my own somewhat conflicted view of DeSantis. I would still prefer him to Trump, but I do think he's dangerous in his own way and I would very strongly prefer that he not get elected president.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Sure. Yet any "GOP" politician that says he didn't win the last general has been ostracized from the Party.
They also aren't allowed to say 1/6 was poor form.
Directly after he got trounced in the general, and in the embarrassing aftermath of 1/6, some GOP politicians had the audacity to say overthrowing democracy is a bad thing.
They all backtracked within a month. The few that didn't will never be elected in that Party again.
I'm sure some will run against him in 2024, but I have a hard time seeing your logic that they will do so with any confidence.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
"[Republican] is even worse than Trump" is a meme that's already played out and it's only 2022. This line will be a howler if the GOP nominates somebody other than Trump. (Big if at this point).
I'd probably support DeSantis over whoever the D nominee is. He's no less authoritarian than anybody in that camp.
The General
Footballguy
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massraider
Footballguy
Could this get nasty enough that DeSantis is out there like, "Hey, if it all goes down again, I won't hide! I won't desert you when the Deep State comes for you!!"
Could we see him campaigning on this, and throw Trump under the bus about Jan 6?
I never thought so, but this is so bad for Trump....
Could we see him campaigning on this, and throw Trump under the bus about Jan 6?
I never thought so, but this is so bad for Trump....
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Did you read the Miller piece I linked to? I thought he did a good job of avoiding the lazy cliche and evaluating DeSantis on his own terms.
Ultimately, I don't think DeSantis will be more authoritarian than Trump, and i don't think he'll support a coup to overturn the election, so I'm not going to spend a lot of time worrying about those things. Here's what I am worried about: How will DeSantis handle the MAGA base? Because while Trump may be uniquely poisonous to our democracy, the fact that a good chunk of the electorate believes a lot of the same crazy crap that he does is also pretty ominous, and DeSantis fashioning his entire political career around stroking that base's erogenous zones is concerning. I have no idea how that will eventually play out if he becomes president, but I don't find the argument that he will channel the base's energies into less dangerous pursuits to be very convincing. And Miller's point was that, even when it comes to what should be easy gimmes like condemning Jan. 6 and saying that Biden won the election, DeSantis hasn't done much more than issue the most pro forma of statements.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Interestingly enough this is pretty much all I care about.
If DeSantis gets in office and bases his policies on extremist right positions then I have confidence the American people will respond and vote him out in 2028. If not and the country is running reasonably well then he'll likely be re-elected.
As long as he doesn't pull the election is rigged crap and doesn't attempt to overturn the will of the people then I am willing to let it play out organically. This is how America is supposed to work
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
I see your point. I guess the question for me is, if the base itself becomes increasingly supportive of authoritarian policies, believing all Democratic victories are illegitimate, etc., and if DeSantis' entire political career is built around the notion of keeping the base happy, what does that mean for a potential DeSantis presidency?
Godsbrother
Footballguy
I think in a state of Florida governor's race you might be able to do that but in a national election you need more than your base. I am hoping that DeSantis is smart enough to know this and understand that he'll need moderates and independents as well as the base.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
It's possible. His first year in office, DeSantis wasn't exactly a moderate, but did focus his energies on less contentious issues. It was only when Covid hit that he moved hard to the right and started picking fights with the left.
But also, what you're describing is part of the problem we're talking about: rather than seeking to broaden its appeal, the GOP is increasingly relying on a strategy of revving up its base, shrinking the electorate and counting on the Constitution's minoritarian structures to retain power.
In any event, we don't have to treat DeSantis' view of democracy as some unknowable fact. We have the next two years to evaluate his words and actions. As outlined in the piece I linked to, what we've heard so far hasn't been super encouraging. But one thing I hope we can all agree on is that he shouldn't be able to get away with saying as little as possible in order to avoid offending anyone. Does he think Joe Biden was elected legitimately? Would he support state legislatures overturning the will of the voters after ballots have been cast and assigning electors according to their own preference? If he were the GOP nominee and lost the election, would he accept the result or would he take the same kinds of actions that Trump did in 2020? I think every Republican running for president -- hell, every Republican running for dog catcher -- should have to go on record on these types of questions.
I'm not saying he's a Nazi, but this reminds me of the unforgettable words of Andrew Gillum: "Now, I'm not calling Mr. DeSantis a racist, I'm simply saying the racists believe he's a racist."
Nazis show up outside Turning Point USA Student Action Summit in Tampa Group was seen waving Nazi flags, carrying anti-Semitic signs, picture of Gov. Ron DeSantis
These people were condemned by the 2 Democrats running for governor and by Rick Scott. Thus far, DeSantis is silent. One possibility is he's waiting to make sure it's not a false flag, seeing how he doesn't trust MSM.
More likely, from back in Feb 2022: Ron DeSantis pushes back against calls to condemn neo-Nazi protests Florida governor says people are trying to ‘smear me as if I had something to do with that’
Nazis show up outside Turning Point USA Student Action Summit in Tampa Group was seen waving Nazi flags, carrying anti-Semitic signs, picture of Gov. Ron DeSantis
These people were condemned by the 2 Democrats running for governor and by Rick Scott. Thus far, DeSantis is silent. One possibility is he's waiting to make sure it's not a false flag, seeing how he doesn't trust MSM.
More likely, from back in Feb 2022: Ron DeSantis pushes back against calls to condemn neo-Nazi protests Florida governor says people are trying to ‘smear me as if I had something to do with that’
Encyclopedia Brown
Footballguy
When Trump held his rally in Arizona, not only did FOX ignore it, but they ran an interview with Ron DeSantis instead.
That's not a coincidence.
That's not a coincidence.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I totally agree. Trump’s base has been declining, but not really because they don’t like him anymore, but rather because they are concerned that he can’t win another election. But if he actually runs, and he’s doing his thing of trashing and mocking his opponents, what will happen? I tend to agree with you that they will respond weakly because they are afraid of angering his base which has become part of their base. Can they effectively argue that they have a better chance of winning in the face of Trump ripping them left and right and making them look weak? I have my doubts.
I agree with @The Dudethat his opponents need to do everything they can now to make it look like Trump can’t win before he decides to run. If they can convince enough people now and all of the polls start reflecting a huge loss for Trump, then I don’t think he’d even run. His ego will not risk a crushing loss.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I’ll just point out that Vegas still considers The Donald the front runner for 2024. We have a lot of people stating unequivocally that he either won’t run or can’t win. I’m not sure what they are basing that on and Vegas isn’t in the business of losing money.
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FairWarning
Footballguy
I think if he wins the general election, it’s because he received good support from the MAGA crowd. I agr get that he is basically auditioning for the job now.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Has anyone else even formed an official campaign yet? I doubt many people are betting on the 2024 Presidential race at all right now, and even less people willing to bet on folks who haven’t officially announced yet.
And maybe I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure that you can’t bet on elections in the traditional way. Caesars/FanDuel etc won’t allow you to bet on elections. You can only bet through “exchanges” where you buy results as commodities. So there aren’t really Vegas handicappers out there setting odds.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Admittedly, I know very little about Vegas and odds so maybe I'm making a poor assumption there and those numbers are meaningless. I don't know but for me it's telling that despite everything we've seen and heard that they would put that out there. Here's some things that I believe about the 2024 election:
- Trump will run as long as he's alive and wants to run (I think he does)
- There's nothing that will come out of the 1/6 hearings that will make it where he can't run
- Assuming the information about the GOP not paying his legal bills is true, he still won't care and will run.
- Desantis will read the room and decide to wait four more years
- I honestly don't know what Biden will do - I don't trust anybody to just walk away from being POTUS. He should but I'm not confident he will.
- I think the likelihood of Trump running unopposed is greater than Biden but I figure both parties will have a few people throw their hat in to unseat them.
- The only person who could make any traction as a 3rd party candidate is Donald Trump but he won't have to
- If conservative media and donors turned on Trump totally then I could see him running 3rd party but the former will never happen because they can't trust him to not do it. They are stuck with him if he runs.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
I’m his biggest Fan, but DeSantis might have won my vote this week.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
A dream scenario would be letting the MAGApowers unite in 2024 to roll “Sleepy Joe” out of office. Trump stays 2 years and cleans up the DOJ and drains the swamp once and for all and turns it over to DeSantis for a 10 year stint.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Cleans up the DOJ? You mean, try to get rid of anyone who knows the stuff he has done?
Pretty silent about Durham finding nothing...about the documents trump took and so many other things.
Now hitching the wagon to Desantis as a consolation prize because he too likes to troll the left.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
Not sure what you are trying to say. The GOP has an embarrassment of riches in the leadership department heading into 2024. I don’t think the Dems have any.
sho nuff
Footballguy
That does not seem to address anything I said at all.
And what you consider an embarrassment of riches seems to be Trump and Desantis...that is embarrassing alright.
But what do you figure needs cleaned up in the DOJ? Because they have rightfully executed a warrant on Trump's property?
You weighed in heavily while Durham was going, now that his investigation has ended without really finding anything...silence. I guess the claims Trump had about the DOJ were unfounded.
That one guy
Footballguy
I know this topic is Trump/DeSantis, but skimming through thread to catch up and I’m confronted with this personal observation: normally the next election cycle is always around the corner, but when the subject matter is Trump and Biden, 2 years to get to 2024 really seems a world away at their current age. They’re both on the down slide, though impressive longevity all things considered. But the slope on that side of the hill can get steep in a hurry
Not rooting one way or another, but honestly would not be surprised if life forces both of them into reality checks on capabilities for another go at it
Not rooting one way or another, but honestly would not be surprised if life forces both of them into reality checks on capabilities for another go at it
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
Durham proved beyond a shadow of a doubt Russia was a hoax linked to the Clinton campaign. I guess that’s nothing?
The DOJ has become a political tool of the administration Not sure how anyone can argue this. Look at parents being targeted for protesting CRT, look at nothing done to BLM/Antifa rioters, actively suppressing Biden family corruption. It goes on and on.
The General
Footballguy
DeSantis taking out the lord of the dark arts will be his final test.
I’m sure Donald will graciously step aside and won’t act insane to advance another person.
I’m sure Donald will graciously step aside and won’t act insane to advance another person.
timschochet
Footballguy
The bottom line is: if Trump runs, DeSantis won’t. If Trump doesn’t run, DeSantis will be the Republican nominee. No one else has a chance. There won’t be a Trump vs DeSantis situation.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
It’s a shame one of these two tremendous patriots will not make it past the semifinals.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Durham proved it was a hoax? Interesting biased read of his investigation and lack of indictments.
Easy to argue the DOJ is not a political tool actually. Parents aren’t targeted for protesting CRT actually…there is literally nothing to back up that claim at all. Done nothing to BLM rioters…well most weren’t involved in federal crimes, so I guess Im happy the DOJ is not involved.
Supressing Biden family corruption? Yeah, that doesn’t seem to be happening either.
I agree that baseless conspiracy theories go on and on…throw as much crap out there “flood the zone with” stuff hoping some sticks seems to be the goal (brought to you by Bannon and his ilk).
Trump will be in prison so we can rule him out. Too early to say DeSantis will be nominee, it's a long way off. He may not even re-election for Governor.
timschochet
Footballguy
Much as I wish it were otherwise, it’s a pipe dream to believe that Donald Trump will ever spend a day behind bars. It won’t happen.
At a minimum he won't be able to run for President.
Why? Why don't think Trump will go against DeSantis for the nomination?
If Trump runs he is the nominee. His base won't ever vote for Desantis over him.
timschochet
Footballguy
If Trump runs. DeSantis will bow out.
DeSantis is a young man. If Trump runs and loses DeSantis is a probable lock for 2028 (assuming the Republicans don’t come to their senses by then.) If Trump wins somehow, DeSantis is probably the heir apparent. He won’t run against Trump and alienate half of his supporters
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
I honestly don't know what will happen. In a rational GOP, DeSantis would be the obvious frontrunner and Trump would have already been discarded as a loser. But with the party we have?
The recent NYT profile of DeSantis touched on a point I've made previously: As much as it may seem like DeSantis will have lots of opportunities, presidential windows are very short. If DeSantis passes up 2024, there's no guarantee he'll still be in a strong position by 2028. Furthermore, this is a guy who made his name on challenging the establishment. He wasn't supposed to run for governor when he did. He didn't follow the consensus on Covid. Standing down and being cautious would be very off-brand for him.
Also LOL at the bolded. I think your assumptions are safe
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
For what?
dkp993
Footballguy
Breaking the law.*
*though I don’t for one second believe jail will happen and he will be actually held accountable for the first time in his life.
The General
Footballguy
I’d say he won’t go to jail. Powerful people get away with stuff all the time.
If he were my money would be on his election interference in Georgia. But there’s a lot to be said about his illegal possession of classified docs, that’s no good. People like to chant “lock him up” over stuff like that. NY also seems to have a decent case with his make believe finances. I guess you could go with any of those.
rustycolts
Footballguy
Well this is one semi fascist that would. I would even change from NPA to Repulican to do so.
The Commish
Footballguy
You are FAR from "Trump's base" GB....don't sell yourself short!
rustycolts
Footballguy
I voted for him twice though.
The Commish
Footballguy
I think you understand the error of your ways
timschochet
Footballguy
Neither makes you maga
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