Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
good to have notice though.
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NFL and Covid Issues - Initially Asked in Shark Pool To Keep it 100% NFL (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
good to have notice though.
Prior to clarification that the TEN-PIT game would definitely NOT be played this week I had been in communication with my league commish (and brother in law). We decided that it was best to not do anything and just let the chips fall where they go. Since ours is a no cash winner is bragging rights family type seemed like a good decision.
For my part I'm just happy with certainty from the league. I have Conner, J Smith and AJ Brown on my roster and now I know they won't play. I was starting Conner and Smith and have H Hurst as well so I only lose Conner. Sounds like a big hit but my opponent this week has Henry so fair trade off IMO. LOL
For my part I'm just happy with certainty from the league. I have Conner, J Smith and AJ Brown on my roster and now I know they won't play. I was starting Conner and Smith and have H Hurst as well so I only lose Conner. Sounds like a big hit but my opponent this week has Henry so fair trade off IMO. LOL
A week 18 PIT/TEN game seem inevitable. Especially since they're both 3-0, this matchup certainly has playoff implications. There also may be more teams playing in Week 18 by the time January rolls around. Just delaying the playoffs by a week seems like a no-brainer, assuming this doesn't spiral out of control.
JamieMurphy
Footballguy
Oh I so hope you're right. Fingers crossed that if there are any infections they show before the game is played. If it takes over a week to show a positive this could derail the season.
The Frankman
Footballguy
Yahoo! - The NFL’s major COVID testing flaw has been exposed. But is the league willing to eliminate it?
This really is a must-read.
This really is a must-read.
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Mr. Irrelevant
IBL Representative
That's a big assumption, considering we couldn't even get out of September without the first game being called off.
Week 18 should be a last resort, which I would use only if cases spike towards the end of the regular season. The NFL doesn't have a ton of scheduling flexibility - but they have more now then they'll have next week, which is more than they'll have the following week, and so on. They should be using what flexibility they do have to its fullest while they still can.
tombonneau
Footballguy
tombonneau
Footballguy
Agreed. They should have planned this season with two byes to give themselves buffer. Not sure why they didn't?
JamieMurphy
Footballguy
This ^^^^^
From the article:
"Much like the last few days, when the league’s most serious COVID-19 testing flaw was exposed by the Tennessee Titans in one word.
Incubation.
More specifically, the 3-7 day period when a person can become infected with COVID-19 and still pass point-of-care testing. It’s a reality that creates the problem the NFL faces now, where a person can test positive for the virus on a Saturday and create a late-week hole where the newly infected (to whom they may have spread the virus) unknowingly slip through testing barriers by virtue of an undetectable incubation period."
A player can be infected and still pass a Covid test because the infection hasn't had enough incubation time to show a positive (that's my layman interpretation, anyway).
just move the start of the playoffs back 2 weeks to allow for time to play makeup games (if they end up mattering, could always cancel a covid game if it has no playoff implications). with no fans in stadiums (for the most part) it shouldnt be a big deal to push start of playoffs back
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Mr. Irrelevant
IBL Representative
They can argue all they want. Remember a couple years back when Florida was under hurricane warning and the Week 1 TB / MIA game was changed to their bye, on maybe 2 days' notice? The players screamed bloody murder but it didn't change the outcome one bit. Same thing here. The NFL will come up with their solution and tell the NFLPA to choke it down with a smile.
amnesiac
beer is good
this is a decent solution.
just not sure how late in the season they can implement it. when does prep for the Super Bowl begin? Can’t imaging moving that back is high on anyone’s list?
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Players this year agreed to get paid based on the number of games they actually play. Contracts are not guaranteed this season. The league could very easily say to the NFLPA play when we tell you or we will cancel the game and everyone will forfeit a game check.
The Frankman
Footballguy
This... could be tricky. The PoC tests yield quicker results but are less accurate.
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Fine for the NFL but what about fantasy leagues (which is really why we're here)? Many teams will lose stud players (Henry, Juju, Steelers D, etc) for backups during week 4. The teams in my league are clammoring for "covid justice"!
Anarchy99
Footballguy
In practical reality for fantasy purposes, all that is happening is players on TEN and PIT will have a different bye week. Owners should get the same total number of games and availability for their players because the game will be made up next month (at least that is the current plan). I agree if games are made up AFTER the season it would be an issue as far as fantasy leagues go.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
You may be right but given the easy fix here maybe they just decided that best way to control it was take the easy fix this time. Maybe there’s more built into the schedule than we realized?
With that said, obviously this surely can lead to the assumption the season doesn’t finish. I still believe but this is a wake up call.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
They could push everything back two weeks and make two league wide bye weeks (which also act as openings for make up games). Of course for that to work it still has to stay under control and have minimal rescheduled games.
renesauz
IBL Representative
If this is a one off event....we can live with it. If it becomes a CF of a random game every other week without a cohesive plan to make it up, it's going to destroy fantasy seasons. It's that simple. A changed bye week is one thing...eight or 16 teams teams having to play in a week 18 will have created a scenario where many had to endure (effectively) two byes with their stars, while others had just one.....not exactly a level playing field. What if a couple have to play in a week 19 (effectively three byes)? It could get ugly real quick even if the NFL manages to get 16 games/team played. IN that scenario the only fair answer would be to punt the fantasy season.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
Not intended at you specifically, but we all knew going into the season after what other sports went through that the likelihood this season would go off without a hitch was essentially zero. There was no good way for fantasy leagues to prepare for it then or adjust to handle it now. That's just how it is. Even the NFL told teams this year there could be problems and things could go on that would not make for a level playing field.
The most common workaround for fantasy leagues was to expand rosters so owners had more replacement options should there be COVID issues. But that still wouldn't be considered fair if a team couldn't play Derrick Henry and instead had to roll with Chase Edmonds. The only "fair" option would have been not to have a league this season. But not many people went that route.
Unfortunately it is what it is. Hopefully they won't have as many scheduling issues as baseball did and the PIT-TEN game will be an outlier.
GibbyGarcia
Footballguy
We did the same, added Reserve spots for COVID ONLY. (We normally don't have IR spots). But today we realized that both the NFL and ESPN sites don't allow anyone not on IR to go onto it. Very frustrating. So now I just added bench spots and am going to have to manage manually.We took a pretty similar approach… My league mates were very understanding and cooperative.
We added two “Covid only“ IR spots… naturally, there’s one guy in the league who keeps asking me if he can put players with ACL or broken leg injuries there, but otherwise it’s been 11/12th smooth.
just another day in the life of a fantasy football commissioner.
Back to this weekend’s games, 1 league member kept asking if the games are delayed, will the stats be retroactively applied to week 4.
If postponed, my understanding is that this would be the BYE for any effected teams, right? So 0s for week 4, and stats for games foe whatever week they’re postponed to?
I can’t imagine it would go any other way, but please do help me understand if there’s another possible outcome here.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Still hoping that the Vikings org stays clear here. I went through my many lineups this morning and swapped out the Ten/Pit guys and looked where I might need to start the likes of Crowder or Patrick tonight. Herndon in one spot where I haven't got any other options. If Min/Hou gets blown up then this week is screwed for me in some spots. I did hear the good news about Min opening up their facilities but we're not out of the woods yet. It is this weekend's tests I'm the most concerned with, if this delayed signal with the incubation period is accurate. Which has been the story since forever.
tombonneau
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
After exploring more of what the league is doing, I am not totally confident that they are interpreting the test results properly and are drawing improper conclusions based off of that. Basically, anyone that tested negative today really only shows that the person was not infected a week ago. But it doesn't with 100% certainty show that the person is not infected at the time of the test. As being discussed in several different threads, there is a lag from the time someone is exposed until they will test positive. It has been reported that it takes 3-7 days post exposure (sometimes more, sometimes less) to test positive. So a person that tests negative RIGHT NOW could actually be actively contagious and spreading the disease. The simple term to report this is calling that a "false negative," although it's not really false . . . it's just too premature to get an accurate result.
In the case of the Vikings, it may be premature to conclude that no one got infected during the game with the Titans. Vikings players COULD have started to test positive by now, but just because no one has tested positive so far does not mean they won't test positive tomorrow or Saturday. The medical community would probably have suggested the league hold off on firing up practice for MIN for a few more days (but that would impact a game on Sunday). If people start to test positive in the Vikings camp over the next few days, the league would have likely made things worse by getting them back to practice too soon.
Realistically, when the league tests everyone on Mondays, they are getting test results from the game the PRIOR week and NOT the game from the day before. They have been basing their conclusions that any negative on Monday was negative the day before, but that is really just speculation. There really isn't an ironclad way to know, as it is too soon to tell. Even the rapid test result options still won't have had enough time for people to show up as positive.
Bottom line, the league has been operating with the conclusion that a test result early in the week impacted the most recent game . . . but in some cases it could have started with the game BEFORE that. They should consider adopting a strategy moving forward that a positive test likely impacted TWO WEEKS of games, but since they are in it to make money and play as many games as possible, they may not worry about the week before. If there is a way for things to blow up and get out of control, that would be one reason why. Hopefully we won't have to find out.
In the case of the Vikings, it may be premature to conclude that no one got infected during the game with the Titans. Vikings players COULD have started to test positive by now, but just because no one has tested positive so far does not mean they won't test positive tomorrow or Saturday. The medical community would probably have suggested the league hold off on firing up practice for MIN for a few more days (but that would impact a game on Sunday). If people start to test positive in the Vikings camp over the next few days, the league would have likely made things worse by getting them back to practice too soon.
Realistically, when the league tests everyone on Mondays, they are getting test results from the game the PRIOR week and NOT the game from the day before. They have been basing their conclusions that any negative on Monday was negative the day before, but that is really just speculation. There really isn't an ironclad way to know, as it is too soon to tell. Even the rapid test result options still won't have had enough time for people to show up as positive.
Bottom line, the league has been operating with the conclusion that a test result early in the week impacted the most recent game . . . but in some cases it could have started with the game BEFORE that. They should consider adopting a strategy moving forward that a positive test likely impacted TWO WEEKS of games, but since they are in it to make money and play as many games as possible, they may not worry about the week before. If there is a way for things to blow up and get out of control, that would be one reason why. Hopefully we won't have to find out.
spodog
Footballguy
Exactly. It is the same problem that has existed for employers, for families, for hospitals and for society at large ever since these so-called positive/negative tests were rolled out. They have largely been treated as if they are telling you something about a point in time situation, but they aren't. They are telling you (with questionable accuracy) about a situation from 5 to 10 days prior, and then people are trying to make a forward looking decision with that data.
It is similar to driving your vehicle down the road with the windshield totally obscured and attempting to navigate exclusively by looking in your rear view mirror at what is behind you.
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IheartGuinness
Footballguy
Highly entertaining.
renesauz
IBL Representative
It's not exactly accurate to conclude that someone is contagious from the day they catch it either though. MOST people are only actually contagious for a day or two before a test would come up positive. The danger in the real world is that some people display very few or no symptoms, and can be contagious spreading it for a long time. The NFL DOES effectively overcome this part of the issue because everyone gets tested...frequently. Also, while scary, someone who is wearing a mask and NOT coughing/hacking/sneezing everywhere, touching everything, is far less likely to spread it outside of prolonged close contact.
TLDR: You're over-stating the risk a bit here. By your scenario, EVERYONE would have caught it by now
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
I wasn't trying to be alarmist and was only trying to show that players could be carriers even though they are being tested all the time (but not on game day for some reason). The point remains that players could have picked something up the week before not the day before on Monday tests. Not a great chance but still a chance. And has been discussed at other times, who knows what the players are doing away from practice (or where they will go during bye weeks). At least the NBA and NHL kept their players centrally located and didn't have folks coming and going. Who knows if that will impact the NFL or not . . .
Shutout
Footballguy
I think this is a lot to think about and although I think I know what the NFL will do as they will bully ahead and try to act as if everything is fine, this scenario may ultimately be what catches up to them at some point because IF they do have a situation like described above then 2 teams will be 8 teams in a blink of an eye.
I would guess (pure speculation) that if there is going to be a "covid bomb" of new cases it will occur right around the Thanksgiving holiday/flu season spike when a lot of people are gathering. So, maybe we get 9-11 weeks in and it gets derailed then.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
The only reason that we know about the raiders situation is because of social media. We won't really know until after the week#4 game if there are any consequences to that or not. I'm sure Bills fans will be eager to find out.Anarchy99 said:
I still can't believe the NFL looked at what was happening in the NBA/NHL and what was happening in MLB BEFORE THE NFL SEASON BEGAN and decided.... well, obviously we are going to follow a model closer to MLB. After all, they have ONLY missed 40+ games zig zagging around the country each week.
The "Well, if worse comes to worse they can just reschedule games" argument looks pretty weak when you look at the ripple effect just one team having about half a dozen positive tests has resulted in. I'm not saying that there will be 40+ games missed, but what if there is 14+? What if half of those come after those teams have already had their bye week? Rescheduling NFL games and MLB games is such a huge difference. Now there are people saying they can just tack on games at the end of the season. So the teams that have earned a bye in the playoffs might sit and wait A MONTH OR MORE before playing their first playoff game?
If THIS was the super secret plan that so many people thought the NFL was working on since April to deal with the inevitable positive tests during the season..... I will give the owners credit for being smart. They were certainly smart to keep this plan secret because based on this past week it kind of sounds like they are just playing this entire thing by ear once there was a positive test.
-jb-
Footballguy
https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1312028828806643713?s=21
“At this rate, if there are more positives this weekend in Tennessee, next weekend’s Titans-Bills game would be in jeopardy.”
“At this rate, if there are more positives this weekend in Tennessee, next weekend’s Titans-Bills game would be in jeopardy.”
-jb-
Footballguy
Interesting. Obviously a lot less people to deal with with a FC, with less close contact, but great that they could pull that off regardless
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Any opinions on whether the COVID situation with Trump might lead to more restrictions / a more conservative approach on how the NFL will handle things moving forward (and therefore potentially lead to more postponements in the coming weeks)? I haven't really thought it through to have much of an opinion just yet.
The Frankman
Footballguy
Not really. Two different situations: one (the NFL and players) where the NFL is trying to make sure everyone follows strict protocols, the other (White House) a situation where there was a legit issue of everyone following any protocols. As long as the NFL keeps doing what they are doing in that regard, everything else is inconsequential.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
I think this actually helps me quite a bit in a few spots. I have (had) a *lot* of players on bye in week 8. This takes Pitt and Bal out of week 8 byes. Now how bad does week 7 look I wonder? Not too bad I don't think. Henry bumped to week 4, so.....huh. Carry on.
Mr. Irrelevant
IBL Representative
I have nothing at all to base this on, but my guess is that the actual super-secret owners' plan was to create bubble(s) of their own a la the NBA/NHL.
From there, my less cynical take is: they knew even announcing that option in the summer would create open revolt among the players - to the point they might not even get the season off the ground - so in public they're playing it by ear.
My more cynical (and IMO more probable) take is: they then realized they grossly underestimated the logistical challenges associated with sheltering 2,000+ players and staff in-place and decided to just have a bare-bones version as a hush-hush "break glass in case of emergency" option.
-jb-
Footballguy
Deamon
Footballguy
What are people's thoughts on being able to use Covid spots for Pitt/Tenn players? There's a debate going on in my league about it.
- One side is that its an unexpected bye that they didn't have time to prepare for, so let them put all steelers and titans in covid spots and not drop anyone to pick new players up.
- Other side is to treat this as a bye and not give an advantage to those who have pitt/tenn players since they will never have to deal with a bye.
Thoughts?
- One side is that its an unexpected bye that they didn't have time to prepare for, so let them put all steelers and titans in covid spots and not drop anyone to pick new players up.
- Other side is to treat this as a bye and not give an advantage to those who have pitt/tenn players since they will never have to deal with a bye.
Thoughts?
-jb-
Footballguy
Ardbeg4ever
Footballguy
I was trying to implement the "contingent" start option in my league (name a backup if a Mon/Tues game is cancelled). I got pushback from the same guys that are negative about anything. Have any other commishes gotten negative feedback about this? I don't see the downside other than the hassle for the commish.
