While I believe it is highly unlikely there will be a significant enough “ Never Biden movement” that VP Biden would even hear about it I am willing to bet that he never, ever would refer to people who belong to any such group as “ human scum”. And that is all we need to know about President Trump and VP Biden.
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Never Biden Movement (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter jon_mx
- Start date
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Did VP Biden call some people deplorables? I would add that I don’t find the term deplorable quite as derogatory as human scum.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
Especially when Hillary explained exactly who was deplorable. For Trump...Human Scum were people that didn't like him.
John Blutarsky
Footballguy
BladeRunner
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
If you are going to ignore me...do so. But don’t make baseless claims that I am making things up or revising history. Ive posted the full deplorables quote many times. She specifically points out who is in that “basket of deplorables”. And I've said her error was in saying it was half of his voters. So stop with false claims about what I have said please
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Bingo, we have a winner. And most of the people posting here are much more likely to vote for Trump than Bernie.
They are just trying in a very obvious way to drag down the presumptive Dem nominee.
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Zegras11
Footballguy
I'm glad those of us that have stated we aren't going to vote for either get to still voice our concerns about him and that none of those concerns have anything to do with Trump.
7.5 months to go. Can they hide him for that long?
Gopher State
Footballguy
Well with all the Trump threads about how bad Donald is DT must really be winning. Biden will be quickly exposed on his past record on wanting to cut social security for seniors, calling weed a gateway drug, oh yea and voting for the Iraq war that killed an incredible amount of harmless people for nothing. That’s the kind of winning you get with sleepy Joe.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
We did get to voice our concerns until the last page or so. Now they have turned it into a pissing match about Trump.
Edit: and Hillary
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Zegras11
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
KiddLattimer
Footballguy
Zegras11
Footballguy
I posted an article last week.... If he becomes the nominee, the DNC can declare him unfit and put in anyone they want.
Widbil83
Footballguy
He’s looked strong as of late in interviews and mock Coronavirus streamed statements (I’m trying not to jinx it).
KiddLattimer
Footballguy
Yea I guess that came up in the DNC lawsuit over 2016, they can pretty much do whatever they want.
I feel bad for anyone who stood in line last week and ends up getting corona over something that really doesn't matter.
Zegras11
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I would like to believe the DNC isn't that dumb, but if they are I firmly believe that would guarantee a huge swing towards the Republicans in both house, Senate and a landslide victory for Trump.
Zegras11
Footballguy
They've controlled everything the way they've wanted it so far. Why not go all the way? They don't want any progressive.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I agree they could be thinking that way. I am saying it is foolish to think that way. IMO it would cost them a lot of seats this year and maybe years into the future.
ren hoek
Footballguy
I really think they just want him to squeak through the primaries so they don't have to worry about Bernie anymore. It's no problem to cancel Joe once they can handpick whoever they want. From there they can just pick a more marketable centrist that Gets Things Done. They are home free once they bury the progressives.msudaisy26 said:
KiddLattimer
Footballguy
Exactly. They know theres no Bernie 2024 and no big threat on deck so they just gotta cross the finish line to ensure all the garbage stays in place for another decade or two
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
Because there is zero chance you pressure the GOP to move left if they lose.Help please....how is holding the same position anything but "the same"? Why is Trump willing to cut social programs "better" than Joe wanting to cut them?
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
I dislike Biden more than pretty much every dem candidate besides Bloomberg, but there is no way he would be worse or equal to Trump. Even if he himself is not competent, at least his administration will be full of competent people who are not looking to just deregulate their own industries. I feel like there is zero chance to pressure the Democratic party to the left if they lose, they will just take to heart that there is nothing they can do to win over more progressive voters, and try and fight over the single swing voter left in Ohio. Plus, with a 7-2 conservative split SC justices (no way RBG, probably Beyer last through 2024), as well as likely losses in the house, senate, and state governments (assuming Trump wins), even if there is a will to enact progressive legislation, it could likely get outright prohibited by conservatives in power. Recall the fairly conservative Obamacare was a SC decision, now image trying to make any sweeping legislation with a court full of 35 year old Alitos and Scalias.
I envision the best way to enact progressive legislation is to keep winning which will give a greater buffer to move left, and every year try and primary out various bad dems (aka Lipinski this year, AOC beating Crowley in 2018 etc).
I can't help think of any accelerationist hoping that decades of right wing rule will somehow convert into a socialist revolution as some sort of trust fund kid playing online leftist. There are tons of poor people or various minorities that will be objectively hurt by an additional 4 years of Trump, but that does not mean nearly as much as boosting internet leftist street cred to them since they will not be affected either way.
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The Commish
Footballguy
Sorry...not following. Cutting social programs is a move to the left? What I was asking was if cutting social programs is a big negative ghost rider, that's a no go for either candidate as they both have proposed it, yet he only mentions it as a no go for Biden. I'm asking why that's a factor.Navin Johnson said:
ren hoek
Footballguy
Even if you believe he's less awful than Trump, he is still demonstrably awful. Biden represents the many decades of systemic rot that gave us Trump in the first place.huthut said:
Imagine it's 2009, the Dems just won and control everything. Did the party get pressured to the left? Why not? Why did we end up with Trump if electing Democrats was good for the left? Because it turns out that just electing Democrats didn't mean jack #### toward getting a left policy agenda through. They hate progressive politics, it poses an existential threat to their gravy train. That's why people voted to burn the house down in 2016.huthut said:
It was Biden who helped ram Clarence Thomas through the Anita Hill hearings. He was the architect of so many legal monstrosities- the crime bill, drug policy, immigrant detention facilities, the Patriot Act, the bankruptcy bill. Biden is atrocious on this stuff. He's basically an authoritarian with loosely held beliefs in whatever socially liberal policies are convenient at the time.huthut said:
Again, Dems won & controlled everything in 2009. The Overton window shifted to the right, not the left. Obama normalized the Bush tax cuts, the wars, the surveillance state, corporate bailouts. They ran as progressives that would be the corrective to the Bush years and then did absolute ####all with it and lost 1,000 seats in Congress. They lost because they turned out to be establishment hacks who sold out the left. That's why it's important to reject Biden. Because he will not revive progressive policy, he will only further concentrate power to the ruling class.huthut said:
Not sure who you're referring to here. Maybe you're right- there is little risk I wouldn't survive either election outcome. But it was Biden who helped create a massive prison state that subjected millions of minorities to modern slavery, built the cages that Trump now uses to punish children, fought tooth and nail for bankruptcy legislation that would drown college students in debt (which was what brought Warren into politics in the first place), was the most reliable cheerleader on the Democratic side for all the wars, which has caused the death and displacement of so many millions of people. Looks like he also sexually assaulted a woman.huthut said:
Biden is part of the problem. It's hard to describe how insulting it is to read that people opposing him are doing so because they don't have a stake in it like the poor and disenfranchised- whose lives Biden has ruined- or worse yet, because we want an additional 4 years of Trump.
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KiddLattimer
Footballguy
Big fan of Jamarl Thomas but this is one of the best videos he's ever done - https://youtu.be/fhgu9rgWsF0
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Biden continues to crush the primaries. Sanders endorses. Obama endorses. Bloomberg offering his team and money. Dems coalescing early. Dems risking their lives to vote in WI.
Never Biden seems to be off to a rough start.
Never Biden seems to be off to a rough start.
KiddLattimer
Footballguy
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
I mean I wouldn't suggest voters risking their lives as a highlight, but sure....
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
While I understand those that don't like Biden, until a certain someone else goes away Biden is "at best" #2 on my list of nevers.
HellToupee
Footballguy
BladeRunner
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
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identikit
Footballguy
Didn't realize he was still kicking.
Being highly intelligent doesn't mean you are correct necessarily.
KiddLattimer
Footballguy
I don't think he disagrees with what Ren is saying in that quote though... a frustration from the gradual destruction of the middle class (especially lower middle) from both parties, frustration that groups are rarely heard if not ignored from the party that is supposed to represent them and a general mistrust of everything that has gone on in Washington for the last 40 years is at the end of the day what gave us Trump. People were sick of what's been going on and took a chance on an outsider. I happen to believe they would have preferred Sanders as the outsider at the time, but that ship sailed. I think Chomsky would agree with that part.
On what Chomsky said though... he's right, Biden IS better than Trump, albeit not as much as pretty much all of us would like. That said, I don't think it's a terrible move for the "Bernie left" to dig in their heels and force Biden come to them on at least a few concessions. The Democrats need to beat Trump, Bernie isn't running again and the left is never going to have leverage like this again in our lifetime. If we don't use it now we'll likely not get anywhere for at least 20 years until the boomers no longer outnumber us.
Certainly "Never" Biden is poor phrasing for what I'm describing because if he makes a strong effort I think a lot of us will in fact vote for him, but I think at this point in the cycle it's right to dig in and threaten to sit out, especially since our leader appears to have failed to get many concessions of his own.
ren hoek
Footballguy
The 'Vote-Democrat as harm reduction' strategy has been around forever. It's always the same argument. Chomsky has always pushed that line, and it's the one instance where centrists/democrats acknowledge him every few years. 'See? Even the theorist you take seriously agrees, we've always ignored him historically speaking but we'll use his views this one time to advance our worldview.' Also, I think Chomsky would actually agree that politicians like Biden, who sold out the working class, shilled the wars, and ratcheted up everything people hate about this country, is indeed a large part of the reason we got Trump.
In 1844, a Whig newspaper made the same argument. The Whigs ran slave owner Henry Clay. Democrats ran slave owner James Polk. The Whigs said they were less worse than the Democrats on slavery, and yelled at everyone with a conscience that voted for the abolitionist Liberty Party.
I don't know how many times I have to tell people how loathesome Joe Biden is. Barack Obama and Joe Biden made this country worse. They normalized all of Bush's corruption, but did it behind polite smiles and ivy-encrusted academia. I'd rather watch this country burn to the ground than 'compromise' with these quizlings. It's not a compromise anymore. There is no middle ground. There's a ruling class and then there's us.
I can easily see Biden betraying the people he's trying to win over right now. Him and his campaign routinely shat on progressives when it wasn't time to court them for November. I disagree with Chomsky that in lieu of a better alternative, our only realistic choice is to support someone that will make the country worse, but less faster.
The argument he's making is basically 'yes, lots of poor and brown people are going to die, but don't we want the one that will (ostensibly, but certainly no guarantee) kill slightly fewer?' It's gross to see people sell out their convictions like that. I don't care how unrealistic or 'not pragmatic' political agorism is, I don't care how many people vote for Trump/Biden, that's a choice I refuse to make. It's the morally, ethically, spiritually right thing to do.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Chomsky is a quintessential antisyndicalist. I believe you're more aware of him so I will believe you if he says vote Dem every 4 years, but I don't recall hearing it.
ren hoek
Footballguy
@samhusseini
@votepact arithmetic is that a Dem voter and Rep voter can join together and both vote for third parties. QED.
@votepact arithmetic is that a Dem voter and Rep voter can join together and both vote for third parties. QED.
squistion
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
It's been around recently since at least the early 90s as a revival but actually dates to post WW1. I first read or heard about it concerning groups arising in Russia's new democracy after the fall of the USSR. I may not have described Chomsky properly as antisyndicalist, he might be called syndicalist (IMO), but perhaps it depends on how one views him. It's just funny to me that once he speaks out like this he's essentially cast out. - Basically it's the horseshoe theory, whether right or left there is a set of interests for workers, tradespeople, whomever, wherever, which are at odds with a governing elite, and that elite may be right or left. It's basically a consciously radical ideology that calls for destruction of institutions and governmental and corporate structures alike so that the great mass of unrepresented people can be served or rather be allowed to serve themselves.
I have no idea what an antisyndicalist is.
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Can anyone point me to prominent elected Democrats who are part of this alleged Never Biden movement? Should be easy given the obvious size and scope of this powerful movement that's not at all made up of Trump supporters who were never going to vote for a Democrat.
And if you could format it like the list of Republican never Trumpers below, I'd be grateful. Just to make it easy to compare.
And if you could format it like the list of Republican never Trumpers below, I'd be grateful. Just to make it easy to compare.
Code:
Former Republican U.S. presidents
Former President George H. W. Bush
Former President George W. Bush
Former 2016 Republican presidential primary candidates
Jeb Bush, Governor of Florida (1999–2007)[5]
Carly Fiorina,[a][b] CEO of Hewlett-Packard (1999–2005)
Senator Lindsey Graham
John Kasich, Governor of Ohio (2011–2019)
George Pataki, Governor of New York (1995–2006)[13]
Former federal cabinet-level officials
Former Secretary of State Colin Powell
Former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice
William Bennett,[a] Director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy (1989–1990)
Bill Brock, United States Secretary of Labor (1985–1987)
Michael Chertoff, United States Secretary of Homeland Security (2005–2009)
Bill Cohen, United States Secretary of Defense (1997–2001)
Robert Gates, United States Secretary of Defense (2006–2011); Director of Central Intelligence (1991–1993)[20]
Carlos Gutierrez, United States Secretary of Commerce (2005–2009) (endorsed Hillary Clinton)[21]
Carla Anderson Hills, United States Secretary of Housing and Urban Development (1975–1977)
Ray LaHood, United States Secretary of Transportation (2009–2013)
Greg Mankiw, Chair of the Council of Economic Advisers (2003–2005)[23]
Mel Martinez, United States Secretary of Housing and Urban Development (2001–2003)
Michael Mukasey, United States Attorney General (2007–2009)[26]
John Negroponte, United States Ambassador to the United Nations (2001–2004);
Henry Paulson, United States Secretary of the Treasury (2006–2009) (endorsed Hillary Clinton)[27]
Rob Portman,[a] Ohio (2010–present); United States Trade Representative (2005–2006)
William K. Reilly, Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency (1989–1992) (endorsed Hillary Clinton)[21]
Tom Ridge, United States Secretary of Homeland Security (2003–2005)
William Ruckelshaus, Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency (1970–1973, 1983–1985)
Brent Scowcroft, National Security Advisor (1975–1977, 1989–1993)
George P. Shultz, United States Secretary of Labor (1969–1970)
Louis Wade Sullivan, United States Secretary of Health and Human Services (1989–1993)
Christine Todd Whitman, Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency (2001–2003)
Paul Wolfowitz, President of the World Bank Group (2005–2007)
Robert Zoellick, President of the World Bank Group (2007–2012)
Sitting Governors
Ohio Governor John Kasich
Charlie Baker, Massachusetts (2015–present)[36]
Robert J. Bentley,[a] Alabama (2011–2017)[37]
Dennis Daugaard,[a][b] South Dakota (2011–2019)[38]
Bill Haslam, Tennessee (2011–2019)[39]
Gary Herbert,[a] Utah (2009–present)[40]
Larry Hogan, Maryland (2015–present)[41][42]
John Kasich, Ohio (2011–2019)[43]
Susana Martinez, New Mexico (2011–2019); Chair of the Republican Governors Association (2015–2016)[44]
Bruce Rauner, Illinois (2015–2019)[45][46]
Brian Sandoval,[a] Nevada (2011–2019)[47]
Phil Scott, Vermont (2017–present)[48]
Rick Snyder, Michigan (2011–2019)[49][50]
Sitting U.S. Senators
Arizona Senator and 2008 nominee for President John McCain
Kelly Ayotte,[c] New Hampshire (2011–2017) (wrote in Mike Pence)[63]
Susan Collins, Maine (1997–present)[64] (wrote in Paul Ryan)
Ted Cruz, Texas (2013–present)[65][66]
Jeff Flake,[b] Arizona (2013–2019)[67][68] (voted for Evan McMullin)[69]
Cory Gardner,[a][b] Colorado (2015–present) (wrote in Mike Pence)[70]
Lindsey Graham,[a][b] South Carolina (2003–present)[71] (voted for Evan McMullin)[72]
Dean Heller, Nevada (2011–2019)[73]
Mike Lee,[b] Utah (2011–present)[74] (voted for Evan McMullin)[75]
Mark Kirk,[a] Illinois (2010–2017) (wrote in Colin Powell)[42]
John McCain,[a] Arizona (1987–2018); 2008 nominee for President[76]
Lisa Murkowski,[b] Alaska (2002–present)[77]
Rob Portman,[a] Ohio (2010–present); United States Trade Representative (2005–2006), Director of the Office of Management and Budget (2006–2007) (wrote in Mike Pence)[28]
Ben Sasse, Nebraska (2015–present)[24][78]
Dan Sullivan,[a][b] Alaska (2015–present) (wrote in Mike Pence)[79]
Sitting U.S. Representatives
Justin Amash, Michigan (2011–present)[32]
Mike Coffman, Colorado (2009–2019)[85]
Barbara Comstock, Virginia (2015–2019)[86]
Carlos Curbelo, Florida (2015–2019)[24][87]
Rodney Davis,[a] Illinois (2013–present)[88]
Charlie Dent, Pennsylvania (2005–2018)[89]
Bob Dold, Illinois (2011–2013, 2015–2017)[32][90]
Jeff Fortenberry,[a] Nebraska (2005–present)[88]
Kay Granger,[b] Texas (1997–present)[91]
Richard L. Hanna, New York (2011–2017) (endorsed Hillary Clinton)[32][92]
Cresent Hardy,[a] Nevada (2015–2017)[93]
Joe Heck,[a] Nevada (2011–2017); 2016 nominee for U.S. Senate[93]
Jaime Herrera Beutler, Washington (2011–present) (writing-in Paul Ryan)[94]
Will Hurd, Texas (2015–present)[citation needed]
David Jolly, Florida (2014–2017)[95]
John Katko, New York (2015–present)[96]
Adam Kinzinger, Illinois (2011–present)[97]
Steve Knight, California (2015–2019)[98]
Frank LoBiondo,[a] New Jersey (1995–2019) (writing-in Mike Pence)[99]
Mia Love, Utah (2015–2019)[100]
Pat Meehan,[b] Pennsylvania (2011–2018)[99]
Erik Paulsen,[a] Minnesota (2009–2019)[101]
Reid Ribble, Wisconsin (2011–2017)[32]
Scott Rigell, Virginia (2011–2017) (endorsed Gary Johnson)[24]
Martha Roby,[b] Alabama (2011–present)[102][103]
Tom Rooney,[a] Florida (2009–2019)[88]
Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, Florida (1989–2019)[32]
Mike Simpson,[a] Idaho (1999–present)[14]
Fred Upton, Michigan (1987–present)[104]
David Valadao, California (2013–2019)[105]
Ann Wagner,[a] Missouri (2013–present)[106]
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