Missing Cleveland teens found Alive 10 years after being abducted! (1 Viewer)

[shadyridr]

Haven't been tuned into this, but are the other two brothers really going to walk away as free men in this whole ordeal? I am absolutely dumbfounded by that. Hopefully some of Cleveland's better connected entrepreneurs find those two and mete out a nice lead greeting.

Have the girls said the brothers were involved?

I don't know. Do you?Seems odd they would be allowed to walk free if they lived in the same house. But whatever, I'll just follow along silently.

who said they lived in the same house?

 

[General Malaise]

Haven't been tuned into this, but are the other two brothers really going to walk away as free men in this whole ordeal? I am absolutely dumbfounded by that. Hopefully some of Cleveland's better connected entrepreneurs find those two and mete out a nice lead greeting.

Have the girls said the brothers were involved?

I don't know. Do you?Seems odd they would be allowed to walk free if they lived in the same house. But whatever, I'll just follow along silently.

who said they lived in the same house?

Thanks Hipple.

 

[shadyridr]

Haven't been tuned into this, but are the other two brothers really going to walk away as free men in this whole ordeal? I am absolutely dumbfounded by that. Hopefully some of Cleveland's better connected entrepreneurs find those two and mete out a nice lead greeting.

Have the girls said the brothers were involved?

I don't know. Do you?Seems odd they would be allowed to walk free if they lived in the same house. But whatever, I'll just follow along silently.

who said they lived in the same house?

Thanks Hipple.

haha oops

 

[cstu]

Haven't been tuned into this, but are the other two brothers really going to walk away as free men in this whole ordeal? I am absolutely dumbfounded by that. Hopefully some of Cleveland's better connected entrepreneurs find those two and mete out a nice lead greeting.

Have the girls said the brothers were involved?

I don't know. Do you?

Seems odd they would be allowed to walk free if they lived in the same house. But whatever, I'll just follow along silently.

They didn't live in the same house, doesn't seem like they knew about it. If they were implicated as being a part of this by the girls, they wouldn't have been let go.

Can we punch 'em just for being related?

Seems fair.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

I am vehemently anti-death penalty, even in cases as abhorrent as this, but I think I have come around on elective death penalty...I agree with euthanasia cases, so if garbage like this guy wants to die, I think we should be able to arrange that

 

[Limp Ditka]

I am vehemently anti-death penalty, even in cases as abhorrent as this, but I think I have come around on elective death penalty...I agree with euthanasia cases, so if garbage like this guy wants to die, I think we should be able to arrange that

Last person I want to execute is the person that wants it as a way out.

 

[glumpy]

I am vehemently anti-death penalty, even in cases as abhorrent as this, but I think I have come around on elective death penalty...I agree with euthanasia cases, so if garbage like this guy wants to die, I think we should be able to arrange that

Last person I want to execute is the person that wants it as a way out.

Personally that doesn't bother me so much as paying to keep him alive just for spite.

 

[KingPrawn]

Haven't been tuned into this, but are the other two brothers really going to walk away as free men in this whole ordeal? I am absolutely dumbfounded by that. Hopefully some of Cleveland's better connected entrepreneurs find those two and mete out a nice lead greeting.

If my read on this is correct:

I understand that there was a lot of bad information on the brothers early on. They were arrested along with Ariel, but only because they happened to all three be together at the time. Early reports were that all three brothers lived at the house together. That was false -- the other two brothers actually lived elsewhere.

Additionally, it has leaked out that the testimony of the three women has so far been clear that the brothers had nothing to do with the crimes.

Of course, stay tuned for new developments. But what seems to have happened so far is that the brothers got an early bum rap in the media, and that the vicitms have gone out of their way to indicate that Ariel was the sole criminal.

But they looked guilty in the pictures.

 

[shadyridr]

I am vehemently anti-death penalty, even in cases as abhorrent as this, but I think I have come around on elective death penalty...I agree with euthanasia cases, so if garbage like this guy wants to die, I think we should be able to arrange that

why should we give this guy anything he wants when he got everything he wanted for ten years and those poor girls didnt.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The details on the woman who was the oldest of the abducted sounds so sad. They are all sad but it sure sounds like she got the worst treatment. She has permanent hearing loss, facial bones that are just not right.

Was reading that he played music loud when his family came over if he even let them in his house.

Sounds like the brothers had no idea which is hard to believe but...assume they didn't. Their mug shots were right there with him, the media made it initially look as if they were involved as well...3 women, 3 brothers.

 

[pollardsvision]

I am vehemently anti-death penalty, even in cases as abhorrent as this, but I think I have come around on elective death penalty...I agree with euthanasia cases, so if garbage like this guy wants to die, I think we should be able to arrange that

Last person I want to execute is the person that wants it as a way out.

Personally that doesn't bother me so much as paying to keep him alive just for spite.

I'm not proud of it, but I would enjoy knowing that he's getting brutally beaten and raped everyday for the next 40 years.

I assume that probably won't happen, so they may as well go ahead and give him the needle ASAP.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

I am vehemently anti-death penalty, even in cases as abhorrent as this, but I think I have come around on elective death penalty...I agree with euthanasia cases, so if garbage like this guy wants to die, I think we should be able to arrange that

why should we give this guy anything he wants when he got everything he wanted for ten years and those poor girls didnt.

Eliminate appeals, save money, less prison space...

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I am vehemently anti-death penalty, even in cases as abhorrent as this, but I think I have come around on elective death penalty...I agree with euthanasia cases, so if garbage like this guy wants to die, I think we should be able to arrange that

why should we give this guy anything he wants when he got everything he wanted for ten years and those poor girls didnt.

Eliminate appeals, save money, less prison space...

Timothy McVeigh opted for the fast lane.

 

[mad sweeney]

Prosecutor said they are going to file aggravated murder charges for each terminated pregnancy. Could face death penalty.

Death is too good for scum like this. I'd rather he be stuck in the hole for 23 hours a day for the next 30+ years.

Unborn babies have no rights.. This is a scare tactic, those charges will never stick.

I'm not a proponent for the death penalty anyways, but this guy is sick in the head and needs to be locked up forever rather than killed.

This is completely untrue. Even in states with rather liberal policies on abortion they have laws against killing an unborn child. There is a difference between choosing to terminate your pregnancy and some #######, who kidnapped and raped you, punching you in the stomach until you miscarry. And as a choice supporter I agree that's the way it should be. Just like because I support legal assisted suicide doesn't mean I support murder.

That doesn't even compare... An unborn baby is programed to live, it wants to live, it should be allowed to live whether the mother (or father in this case) wants it to or not... Someone who receives assisted suicide, does not want to live.

If they get him for murder, then great, I'm all for it. But when someone commits a crime against an unborn child, I'm typically dubious about the ramifications since our laws don't particularly protect the unborn child.

You should clearly withhold your thoughts on this matter because you're speaking about something of which you obviously know nothing about.

He'd never post if he had to abide by that rule.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

I am vehemently anti-death penalty, even in cases as abhorrent as this, but I think I have come around on elective death penalty...I agree with euthanasia cases, so if garbage like this guy wants to die, I think we should be able to arrange that

why should we give this guy anything he wants when he got everything he wanted for ten years and those poor girls didnt.

Eliminate appeals, save money, less prison space...

Timothy McVeigh opted for the fast lane.

After a couple of appeals if memory serves...but still not sure what that has to do with my comment

 

[cstu]

I am vehemently anti-death penalty, even in cases as abhorrent as this, but I think I have come around on elective death penalty...I agree with euthanasia cases, so if garbage like this guy wants to die, I think we should be able to arrange that

Last person I want to execute is the person that wants it as a way out.

Personally that doesn't bother me so much as paying to keep him alive just for spite.

I'm not proud of it, but I would enjoy knowing that he's getting brutally beaten and raped everyday for the next 40 years.

I assume that probably won't happen, so they may as well go ahead and give him the needle ASAP.

This is the normal reaction to this but would you want to watch it? It's easy to sit back and wish for that but it's another to see it happening day after day.

No, I'd rather put a bullet in his head and be done with it.

 

[cstu]

The details on the woman who was the oldest of the abducted sounds so sad. They are all sad but it sure sounds like she got the worst treatment. She has permanent hearing loss, facial bones that are just not right.

Was reading that he played music loud when his family came over if he even let them in his house.

Sounds like the brothers had no idea which is hard to believe but...assume they didn't. Their mug shots were right there with him, the media made it initially look as if they were involved as well...3 women, 3 brothers.

Truth is that they were probably too drunk all the time to know anything that was going on:

Of Cleveland’s three Castro brothers, it was the middle one, Ariel, 52, who seemed to have his life in order.
Neighbors describe the other siblings—Pedro, 54, and Onil, 50—as kind and polite but nearly always drunk. No one could remember how they earned a living. Ariel, on the other hand, who was charged Wednesday with the rape and kidnapping of three women he allegedly held hostage in his home for nearly a decade, worked a day job for 20 years as a schoolbus driver until he was fired in November. While his brothers got around town on bicycles, Ariel owned a motorcycle and cars, including a Jeep Cherokee and a red Toyota pickup. He had at one time filled in on bass in a local band, Grupo Fuego. He didn’t drink nearly as prolifically as his two siblings did.

 

[cstu]

He had girlfriends, and as far as others knew, took care of a beautiful little girl named Jocelyn. Later, of course, it would be found that the girl was birthed in captivity by Amanda Berry, one of the three women Castro is accused of kidnapping.
“He brought her over to see his mother and to play,” says Dolores Essenburg, who owns a home on Kinkel Street, where Pedro and Onil lived with their mother, Lillian Rodriguez, for years. “I saw her a number of times over there, and she was beautiful.”

WTMF.

 

[pittstownkiller]

Assuming he will have a court-appointed attorney, does this person really have to try hard to defend this guy? Can't they just accept the charges, plead guilty, and move on to sentencing?

My guess is they will pile on the charges and the only plea bargain may be "we won't kill you if you plead and save us some work". Pretty sure he will be told to accept that deal because otherwise he is unlikely to escape the death penalty. If there is no deal made available, and that wouldn't really surprise me, then it should still be pretty quick.

How many times is the death penalty applied when their isn't a murder involved (barring an effort to have the miscarriages labeled as murder, which may be somewhat complicated to do)?

I've heard that they should be able to add murder charges with him having caused the miscarriages. And because of that, they should be able to seek the death penalty. Shouldn't be very hard to do.

I am sure the prosecutor will try but there would still have to be evidence that the girl was pregnant, he assaulted her, and he caused the miscarriage; all of which may be hard to prove.

Because women get starved and punched in the gut repeatedly just for the hell of it?

And of course that gets put into evidence in court by the testimony of the Yahoo! reporter. The finding of the assault that caused the miscarriage would be the determining factor, of a verdict, in death penalty case; my guess would be that the would need some real evidence. Maybe the prosecutor should try to get the conviction based on the "they look guilty" angle.

 

[The Comedian]

Assuming he will have a court-appointed attorney, does this person really have to try hard to defend this guy? Can't they just accept the charges, plead guilty, and move on to sentencing?

My guess is they will pile on the charges and the only plea bargain may be "we won't kill you if you plead and save us some work". Pretty sure he will be told to accept that deal because otherwise he is unlikely to escape the death penalty. If there is no deal made available, and that wouldn't really surprise me, then it should still be pretty quick.

How many times is the death penalty applied when their isn't a murder involved (barring an effort to have the miscarriages labeled as murder, which may be somewhat complicated to do)?

I've heard that they should be able to add murder charges with him having caused the miscarriages. And because of that, they should be able to seek the death penalty. Shouldn't be very hard to do.

I am sure the prosecutor will try but there would still have to be evidence that the girl was pregnant, he assaulted her, and he caused the miscarriage; all of which may be hard to prove.

Because women get starved and punched in the gut repeatedly just for the hell of it?

And of course that gets put into evidence in court by the testimony of the Yahoo! reporter. The finding of the assault that caused the miscarriage would be the determining factor, of a verdict, in death penalty case; my guess would be that the would need some real evidence. Maybe the prosecutor should try to get the conviction based on the "they look guilty" angle.

Prosecutor: Hi, Medical Expert.

Medical Expert: High Prosecutor.

We're not talking a giant, magical-adolescent Datonn-sized leap here.

 

[HERBERT THE HIPPO]

Maybe the guy went crazy after realizing he was named after a Disney princess.

 

[culdeus]

What is this "they look guilty" meme? Is it something Fox News said?

 

[pollardsvision]

I am vehemently anti-death penalty, even in cases as abhorrent as this, but I think I have come around on elective death penalty...I agree with euthanasia cases, so if garbage like this guy wants to die, I think we should be able to arrange that

Last person I want to execute is the person that wants it as a way out.

Personally that doesn't bother me so much as paying to keep him alive just for spite.

I'm not proud of it, but I would enjoy knowing that he's getting brutally beaten and raped everyday for the next 40 years. I assume that probably won't happen, so they may as well go ahead and give him the needle ASAP.

This is the normal reaction to this but would you want to watch it? It's easy to sit back and wish for that but it's another to see it happening day after day. No, I'd rather put a bullet in his head and be done with it.

I doubt I'd want to watch it. Well, I'd absolutely want to watch the beating part. Probably not the other.But I was just referring to knowing/hoping it was happening.Even if he spent any time with the general prison population with guards turning away, obviously, it wouldn't be televised (and it couldn't last for 40 years because somebody'd get carried away and kill him within a week).

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

What is this "they look guilty" meme? Is it something Fox News said?

I think it was something MOP said.

 

[Mario Kart]

Interview with the brothers airs tonight. I would think it would be pretty easy to tell if they had anything to do with it... ask the three ladies if there was anyone other than the main guy to have raped them, talked with them, interact with them at all.

Surely, private conversations among the three brothers cannot be proven unless the main one speaks about it but the focus, or lack of focus by the media, should be on the three ladies right now and not the brothers.

 

[pittstownkiller]

Assuming he will have a court-appointed attorney, does this person really have to try hard to defend this guy? Can't they just accept the charges, plead guilty, and move on to sentencing?

My guess is they will pile on the charges and the only plea bargain may be "we won't kill you if you plead and save us some work". Pretty sure he will be told to accept that deal because otherwise he is unlikely to escape the death penalty. If there is no deal made available, and that wouldn't really surprise me, then it should still be pretty quick.

How many times is the death penalty applied when their isn't a murder involved (barring an effort to have the miscarriages labeled as murder, which may be somewhat complicated to do)?

I've heard that they should be able to add murder charges with him having caused the miscarriages. And because of that, they should be able to seek the death penalty. Shouldn't be very hard to do.

I am sure the prosecutor will try but there would still have to be evidence that the girl was pregnant, he assaulted her, and he caused the miscarriage; all of which may be hard to prove.

Because women get starved and punched in the gut repeatedly just for the hell of it?

And of course that gets put into evidence in court by the testimony of the Yahoo! reporter. The finding of the assault that caused the miscarriage would be the determining factor, of a verdict, in death penalty case; my guess would be that the would need some real evidence. Maybe the prosecutor should try to get the conviction based on the "they look guilty" angle.

Prosecutor: Hi, Medical Expert. Medical Expert: High Prosecutor. We're not talking a giant, magical-adolescent Datonn-sized leap here.

No; I didn't say it was impossible, just that it may be difficult. Defense attorney: did you examine the girl while she was pregnant?Med. expert: noD. A.: did you examine the fetus?M.E.: noD.A.: Is it possible to be assaulted without having a miscarriage?M.E.: yesD.A. Is it possible for an otherwise healthy girl to have a miscarriage?M.E. yesD.A. Do you, as a Medical Expert, have any evidence that there were any injuries that became the direct cause of a miscarriage?M.E.???I am not saying any of this didn't happen; just that if it is the single piece that could sentence this man to death, that it may be difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Not to mention, this still assumes that these girls are credible witnesses (that they are not too emotionally scarred to testify) and can convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that there were other pregnancies ; it also ignores the fact that the one girl's daughter knows the defendant as her father; it may not be her desire, or that of her mother, to see him put to death.

 

[pittstownkiller]

Interview with the brothers airs tonight. I would think it would be pretty easy to tell if they had anything to do with it... ask the three ladies if there was anyone other than the main guy to have raped them, talked with them, interact with them at all. Surely, private conversations among the three brothers cannot be proven unless the main one speaks about it but the focus, or lack of focus by the media, should be on the three ladies right now and not the brothers.

I hope they have their lawyers with them.

 

[mad sweeney]

Interview with the brothers airs tonight. I would think it would be pretty easy to tell if they had anything to do with it... ask the three ladies if there was anyone other than the main guy to have raped them, talked with them, interact with them at all.

Surely, private conversations among the three brothers cannot be proven unless the main one speaks about it but the focus, or lack of focus by the media, should be on the three ladies right now and not the brothers.

It is, just give them the MoP treatment. Brown? Check. Look guilty in police photo after discovering brother is an insane rapist? Check. The only variables are if they have an accent (if so, then more proof of guilt) and do they treat the white people on the crew properly (if not, then more proof of guilt). Case closed.

 

[The Comedian]

Assuming he will have a court-appointed attorney, does this person really have to try hard to defend this guy? Can't they just accept the charges, plead guilty, and move on to sentencing?

My guess is they will pile on the charges and the only plea bargain may be "we won't kill you if you plead and save us some work". Pretty sure he will be told to accept that deal because otherwise he is unlikely to escape the death penalty. If there is no deal made available, and that wouldn't really surprise me, then it should still be pretty quick.

How many times is the death penalty applied when their isn't a murder involved (barring an effort to have the miscarriages labeled as murder, which may be somewhat complicated to do)?

I've heard that they should be able to add murder charges with him having caused the miscarriages. And because of that, they should be able to seek the death penalty. Shouldn't be very hard to do.

I am sure the prosecutor will try but there would still have to be evidence that the girl was pregnant, he assaulted her, and he caused the miscarriage; all of which may be hard to prove.

Because women get starved and punched in the gut repeatedly just for the hell of it?

And of course that gets put into evidence in court by the testimony of the Yahoo! reporter. The finding of the assault that caused the miscarriage would be the determining factor, of a verdict, in death penalty case; my guess would be that the would need some real evidence. Maybe the prosecutor should try to get the conviction based on the "they look guilty" angle.

Prosecutor: Hi, Medical Expert. Medical Expert: High Prosecutor. We're not talking a giant, magical-adolescent Datonn-sized leap here.

No; I didn't say it was impossible, just that it may be difficult.Defense attorney: did you examine the girl while she was pregnant?Med. expert: noD. A.: did you examine the fetus?M.E.: noD.A.: Is it possible to be assaulted without having a miscarriage?M.E.: yesD.A. Is it possible for an otherwise healthy girl to have a miscarriage?M.E. yesD.A. Do you, as a Medical Expert, have any evidence that there were any injuries that became the direct cause of a miscarriage?M.E.???I am not saying any of this didn't happen; just that if it is the single piece that could sentence this man to death, that it may be difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Not to mention, this still assumes that these girls are credible witnesses (that they are not too emotionally scarred to testify) and can convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that there were other pregnancies ; it also ignores the fact that the one girl's daughter knows the defendant as her father; it may not be her desire, or that of her mother, to see him put to death.

You stated that it all may be difficult to prove - that she was pregnant, that he beat her, etc. That will be very easy to prove. She will say he beat her, and the jury will believe her because between the two, she's not the guy caught with three kidnapped women and a child locked in his basement. She will say she's pregnant, that will be believed by the jury as well.

As for the causation between the miscarriage and the starvation/beatings, it may not be possible to make it 100%, but just think of the timeline if you're a juror:

1. Man rapes girl.

2. Girl gets pregnant.

3. Man starves girl.

4. Man beats girl.

5. Girl has miscarriage.

There aren't going to be a lot of jurors looking for reasons to not connect 1-4 to #5.

 

[pittstownkiller]

Assuming he will have a court-appointed attorney, does this person really have to try hard to defend this guy? Can't they just accept the charges, plead guilty, and move on to sentencing?

My guess is they will pile on the charges and the only plea bargain may be "we won't kill you if you plead and save us some work". Pretty sure he will be told to accept that deal because otherwise he is unlikely to escape the death penalty. If there is no deal made available, and that wouldn't really surprise me, then it should still be pretty quick.

How many times is the death penalty applied when their isn't a murder involved (barring an effort to have the miscarriages labeled as murder, which may be somewhat complicated to do)?

I've heard that they should be able to add murder charges with him having caused the miscarriages. And because of that, they should be able to seek the death penalty. Shouldn't be very hard to do.

I am sure the prosecutor will try but there would still have to be evidence that the girl was pregnant, he assaulted her, and he caused the miscarriage; all of which may be hard to prove.

Because women get starved and punched in the gut repeatedly just for the hell of it?

And of course that gets put into evidence in court by the testimony of the Yahoo! reporter. The finding of the assault that caused the miscarriage would be the determining factor, of a verdict, in death penalty case; my guess would be that the would need some real evidence. Maybe the prosecutor should try to get the conviction based on the "they look guilty" angle.

Prosecutor: Hi, Medical Expert. Medical Expert: High Prosecutor. We're not talking a giant, magical-adolescent Datonn-sized leap here.

No; I didn't say it was impossible, just that it may be difficult.Defense attorney: did you examine the girl while she was pregnant?Med. expert: noD. A.: did you examine the fetus?M.E.: noD.A.: Is it possible to be assaulted without having a miscarriage?M.E.: yesD.A. Is it possible for an otherwise healthy girl to have a miscarriage?M.E. yesD.A. Do you, as a Medical Expert, have any evidence that there were any injuries that became the direct cause of a miscarriage?M.E.???I am not saying any of this didn't happen; just that if it is the single piece that could sentence this man to death, that it may be difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Not to mention, this still assumes that these girls are credible witnesses (that they are not too emotionally scarred to testify) and can convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that there were other pregnancies ; it also ignores the fact that the one girl's daughter knows the defendant as her father; it may not be her desire, or that of her mother, to see him put to death.

You stated that it all may be difficult to prove - that she was pregnant, that he beat her, etc. That will be very easy to prove. She will say he beat her, and the jury will believe her because between the two, she's not the guy caught with three kidnapped women and a child locked in his basement. She will say she's pregnant, that will be believed by the jury as well. As for the causation between the miscarriage and the starvation/beatings, it may not be possible to make it 100%, but just think of the timeline if you're a juror: 1. Man rapes girl.2. Girl gets pregnant.3. Man starves girl.4. Man beats girl.5. Girl has miscarriage. There aren't going to be a lot of jurors looking for reasons to not connect 1-4 to #5.

I agree with you 100% that emotion will come into a juror's decision but when they are voting for the death penalty, or if it is the judge's decision solely, and they are asked if they are sure beyond a reasonable doubt, I think there will most likely be reasonable doubt.

 

[wadegarrett]

Interview with the brothers...

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/13/us/ohio-castro-brothers/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

 

[NCCommish]

I am vehemently anti-death penalty, even in cases as abhorrent as this, but I think I have come around on elective death penalty...I agree with euthanasia cases, so if garbage like this guy wants to die, I think we should be able to arrange that

Last person I want to execute is the person that wants it as a way out.

Personally that doesn't bother me so much as paying to keep him alive just for spite.

In NC it costs twice as much to execute someone as to jail them for life.

 

[NCCommish]

I agree with you 100% that emotion will come into a juror's decision but when they are voting for the death penalty, or if it is the judge's decision solely, and they are asked if they are sure beyond a reasonable doubt, I think there will most likely be reasonable doubt.

I think you are not giving enough credit to what an examine will reveal. A miscarriage caused by blows to the stomach is likely to leave telltale damage to the uterus. So it is possible for an exam at this time to reveal evidence of what happened.

 

[sho nuff]

I am vehemently anti-death penalty, even in cases as abhorrent as this, but I think I have come around on elective death penalty...I agree with euthanasia cases, so if garbage like this guy wants to die, I think we should be able to arrange that

Last person I want to execute is the person that wants it as a way out.

Personally that doesn't bother me so much as paying to keep him alive just for spite.

In NC it costs twice as much to execute someone as to jail them for life.

Counting all appeals I would agree...the actual execution though...if done electively as this was stated?

 

[NCCommish]

I am vehemently anti-death penalty, even in cases as abhorrent as this, but I think I have come around on elective death penalty...I agree with euthanasia cases, so if garbage like this guy wants to die, I think we should be able to arrange that

Last person I want to execute is the person that wants it as a way out.

Personally that doesn't bother me so much as paying to keep him alive just for spite.

In NC it costs twice as much to execute someone as to jail them for life.

Counting all appeals I would agree...the actual execution though...if done electively as this was stated?

No way to know since we don't do elective executions.

 

[johnnycakes]

I am vehemently anti-death penalty, even in cases as abhorrent as this, but I think I have come around on elective death penalty...I agree with euthanasia cases, so if garbage like this guy wants to die, I think we should be able to arrange that

Last person I want to execute is the person that wants it as a way out.

Personally that doesn't bother me so much as paying to keep him alive just for spite.

In NC it costs twice as much to execute someone as to jail them for life.

Counting all appeals I would agree...the actual execution though...if done electively as this was stated?

No way to know since we don't do elective executions.

I would vote to execute.

 

[NCCommish]

I am vehemently anti-death penalty, even in cases as abhorrent as this, but I think I have come around on elective death penalty...I agree with euthanasia cases, so if garbage like this guy wants to die, I think we should be able to arrange that

Last person I want to execute is the person that wants it as a way out.

Personally that doesn't bother me so much as paying to keep him alive just for spite.

In NC it costs twice as much to execute someone as to jail them for life.

Counting all appeals I would agree...the actual execution though...if done electively as this was stated?

No way to know since we don't do elective executions.

I would vote to execute.

Since I am against the death penalty I'd have to go no. It's always easy to point to a case like this and try to talk about we should just fry people. Tell that to the people that get off death row on a regular basis because new evidence ends up clearing them. Yeah this seems like a slam dunk but unfortunately we make too many mistakes to be in the business of execution.

 

[Keerock]

I am vehemently anti-death penalty, even in cases as abhorrent as this, but I think I have come around on elective death penalty...I agree with euthanasia cases, so if garbage like this guy wants to die, I think we should be able to arrange that

Last person I want to execute is the person that wants it as a way out.

Personally that doesn't bother me so much as paying to keep him alive just for spite.

In NC it costs twice as much to execute someone as to jail them for life.

Counting all appeals I would agree...the actual execution though...if done electively as this was stated?

No way to know since we don't do elective executions.

I would vote to execute.

Since I am against the death penalty I'd have to go no. It's always easy to point to a case like this and try to talk about we should just fry people. Tell that to the people that get off death row on a regular basis because new evidence ends up clearing them. Yeah this seems like a slam dunk but unfortunately we make too many mistakes to be in the business of execution.

If they plead guilty, I don't see an issue. I can't imagine what defense this guy would have.

 

[NCCommish]

I am vehemently anti-death penalty, even in cases as abhorrent as this, but I think I have come around on elective death penalty...I agree with euthanasia cases, so if garbage like this guy wants to die, I think we should be able to arrange that

Last person I want to execute is the person that wants it as a way out.

Personally that doesn't bother me so much as paying to keep him alive just for spite.

In NC it costs twice as much to execute someone as to jail them for life.

Counting all appeals I would agree...the actual execution though...if done electively as this was stated?

No way to know since we don't do elective executions.

I would vote to execute.

Since I am against the death penalty I'd have to go no. It's always easy to point to a case like this and try to talk about we should just fry people. Tell that to the people that get off death row on a regular basis because new evidence ends up clearing them. Yeah this seems like a slam dunk but unfortunately we make too many mistakes to be in the business of execution.

If they plead guilty, I don't see an issue. I can't imagine what defense this guy would have.

Well it all starts with giving the state permission to execute it's citizens. It leads to things like extrajudicial assassinations.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I agree with you 100% that emotion will come into a juror's decision but when they are voting for the death penalty, or if it is the judge's decision solely, and they are asked if they are sure beyond a reasonable doubt, I think there will most likely be reasonable doubt.

I think you are not giving enough credit to what an examine will reveal. A miscarriage caused by blows to the stomach is likely to leave telltale damage to the uterus. So it is possible for an exam at this time to reveal evidence of what happened.

Not sure this is true..

 

[pittstownkiller]

I agree with you 100% that emotion will come into a juror's decision but when they are voting for the death penalty, or if it is the judge's decision solely, and they are asked if they are sure beyond a reasonable doubt, I think there will most likely be reasonable doubt.

I think you are not giving enough credit to what an examine will reveal. A miscarriage caused by blows to the stomach is likely to leave telltale damage to the uterus. So it is possible for an exam at this time to reveal evidence of what happened.

It is certainly possible but I would say that any significant time after the miscarriage happened, maybe years, any evidence that may be revealed would be much more difficult to link to a specific miscarriage. We are talking about death v. life in prison; my guess is that a juror would want to be 100% certain.

 

[NCCommish]

I agree with you 100% that emotion will come into a juror's decision but when they are voting for the death penalty, or if it is the judge's decision solely, and they are asked if they are sure beyond a reasonable doubt, I think there will most likely be reasonable doubt.

I think you are not giving enough credit to what an examine will reveal. A miscarriage caused by blows to the stomach is likely to leave telltale damage to the uterus. So it is possible for an exam at this time to reveal evidence of what happened.

It is certainly possible but I would say that any significant time after the miscarriage happened, maybe years, any evidence that may be revealed would be much more difficult to link to a specific miscarriage. We are talking about death v. life in prison; my guess is that a juror would want to be 100% certain.

Have you read the posts here? They are going to be looking for reasons to put this guy down. A little thing like determining which exact miscarriage he caused isn't likely to be a huge sticking point.

 

[NCCommish]

I agree with you 100% that emotion will come into a juror's decision but when they are voting for the death penalty, or if it is the judge's decision solely, and they are asked if they are sure beyond a reasonable doubt, I think there will most likely be reasonable doubt.

I think you are not giving enough credit to what an examine will reveal. A miscarriage caused by blows to the stomach is likely to leave telltale damage to the uterus. So it is possible for an exam at this time to reveal evidence of what happened.

Not sure this is true..

Please note the likely. I used that as there is a chance it won't. However since we are talking multiple instances it seems like there probably will be some evidence.

 

[pittstownkiller]

I agree with you 100% that emotion will come into a juror's decision but when they are voting for the death penalty, or if it is the judge's decision solely, and they are asked if they are sure beyond a reasonable doubt, I think there will most likely be reasonable doubt.

I think you are not giving enough credit to what an examine will reveal. A miscarriage caused by blows to the stomach is likely to leave telltale damage to the uterus. So it is possible for an exam at this time to reveal evidence of what happened.

It is certainly possible but I would say that any significant time after the miscarriage happened, maybe years, any evidence that may be revealed would be much more difficult to link to a specific miscarriage. We are talking about death v. life in prison; my guess is that a juror would want to be 100% certain.

Have you read the posts here? They are going to be looking for reasons to put this guy down. A little thing like determining which exact miscarriage he caused isn't likely to be a huge sticking point.

I have read the posts here, have you? The lawyer types have already chimed in that it would be damn near unprecedented to have a death penalty conviction without a murder taking place. If the miscarriage is the only thing that might bring a murder into the equation I would imagine the defense attorney would fight vehemently to counter it. I think that doubt could be raised whether the girl was either actually pregnant, or miscarried solely from abuse. Then there is the sticky little point that one of the girls daughter knows the rapist as her father and apparently loves him; it may not be the desire of the victims to see him put to death.

 

[proninja]

Since I am against the death penalty I'd have to go no. It's always easy to point to a case like this and try to talk about we should just fry people. Tell that to the people that get off death row on a regular basis because new evidence ends up clearing them. Yeah this seems like a slam dunk but unfortunately we make too many mistakes to be in the business of execution.

Yup. I don't want any country I live in to kill innocent people, and with the death penalty that's what happens. Innocent people die, and one is unacceptable to me.

Gotta say, I won't be completely outraged about this one though

 

[Worm]

Since I am against the death penalty I'd have to go no. It's always easy to point to a case like this and try to talk about we should just fry people. Tell that to the people that get off death row on a regular basis because new evidence ends up clearing them. Yeah this seems like a slam dunk but unfortunately we make too many mistakes to be in the business of execution.

Yup. I don't want any country I live in to kill innocent people, and with the death penalty that's what happens. Innocent people die, and one is unacceptable to me.

Gotta say, I won't be completely outraged about this one though

Is it any better to have innocent people rot in prison until they die?

 

[pittstownkiller]

Since I am against the death penalty I'd have to go no. It's always easy to point to a case like this and try to talk about we should just fry people. Tell that to the people that get off death row on a regular basis because new evidence ends up clearing them. Yeah this seems like a slam dunk but unfortunately we make too many mistakes to be in the business of execution.

Yup. I don't want any country I live in to kill innocent people, and with the death penalty that's what happens. Innocent people die, and one is unacceptable to me. Gotta say, I won't be completely outraged about this one though

Is it any better to have innocent people rot in prison until they die?

Of course not but the innocent person rotting in jail always has a chance at another day in court.

 

[Doug B]

Gotta think there's actually a good chance Ariel admits to the purposeful miscarriages, legal advice or no, right? For all his horrendous ills, Ariel Castro seems to have a confessor streak in his personality.

I guess it's Law School 101 that this guy never sniffs the stand during trial, correct?

 

[pittstownkiller]

Gotta think there's actually a good chance Ariel admits to the purposeful miscarriages, legal advice or no, right? For all his horrendous ills, Ariel Castro seems to have a confessor streak in his personality. I guess it's Law School 101 that this guy never sniffs the stand during trial, correct?

You may be correct but I would imagine that his defense attorney will sew his mouth shut about any miscarriages, if it saves him from the needle.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

The interview of the brothers is pretty powerful. I can't imagine being them, what a horrible spot to be in.