Ruffrodys05
IBL Representative
I'm really intrigued by this player.
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Kelvin Benjamin - WR - FSU [UPDATE PAGE 1, 7/3] (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Eminence
- Start date
cstu
Footballguy
I'll give you that Benjamin is a little more athletic than Evans but as WR's it's not even close. Evans knows how to get open and makes plays. Benjamin is going to need years to learn how to play WR in the NFL.
identikit
Footballguy
Faust
MVP
cstu
Footballguy
He's hardly a rare prospect - plenty of TE's with his size and measureables. He lacks the speed to get open in the NFL at WR and is basically a slow Ladarius Green.
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Premier
Footballguy
cstu
Footballguy
Where did he run a 4.5? 4.61 at the combine with one of the worst 10 yard splits - 1.66.
Premier
Footballguy
At fsu. I'm not going to bother finding the article because I don't care enough, but 4.5, 4.6.....still rare at that size of his.
I've already said I don't think he's going to be a great player in this thread, but he doesn't have a common skill set either.
cstu
Footballguy
It's rare that a guy at his size doesn't get converted to TE. Here are 3 TE's just in this draft who compare to him physically:
Ebron - 6-4, 250, 4.60
A.C. Leonard - 6-2, 252, 4.50
Colt Lyerla - 6-4, 242, 4.61
Premier
Footballguy
He plays faster than a 4.6.
At least he did in college. Put the UF tape on. That was a pretty good D and he ate their corners alive. All his problems are mental.
cstu
Footballguy
I rewatched Benjamin's best game (against Florida) and here what stood out:
- drops a pass that hits him right in the hands
- dives for a ball that goes through his hands
- catches a 10 yard slant that due to his beastly size and poor tackling he takes in for a 50 yard TD
- nearly rips DB Purifoy's jersey off getting open for a TD (no penalty called)
- beats Purifoy (5-11, 190, 4.61) for a 60 yard catch
- drops a long pass that hits him right in his hands
- beats 5 star recruit Vernon Hargreaves for a long gain, but looks like he pushes off to gain separation
- beats Hargreaves on a corner route for a 5 yard TD. His best play off the game and he'll be hard to defend on this even in the NFL
- drops a pass that hits him right in the hands
- dives for a ball that goes through his hands
- catches a 10 yard slant that due to his beastly size and poor tackling he takes in for a 50 yard TD
- nearly rips DB Purifoy's jersey off getting open for a TD (no penalty called)
- beats Purifoy (5-11, 190, 4.61) for a 60 yard catch
- drops a long pass that hits him right in his hands
- beats 5 star recruit Vernon Hargreaves for a long gain, but looks like he pushes off to gain separation
- beats Hargreaves on a corner route for a 5 yard TD. His best play off the game and he'll be hard to defend on this even in the NFL
cstu
Footballguy
In the BCS championship against Auburn he was invisible until the 3rd quarter - two incomplete passes in the first half.
In the second half he came up big - a 24 yard catch that led to a FG, a 21 yard catch to the 11 that led to a TD and the game winning 2 yard TD.
The conundrum about Benjamin is that despite his size advantage over everyone he faces why does he disappear so much in games (3 career games with more than 77 yards receiving)?
In the second half he came up big - a 24 yard catch that led to a FG, a 21 yard catch to the 11 that led to a TD and the game winning 2 yard TD.
The conundrum about Benjamin is that despite his size advantage over everyone he faces why does he disappear so much in games (3 career games with more than 77 yards receiving)?
BassNBrew
Footballguy
I think Cappy covered that above, but when it was crunch time for all the marbles you see who they went to.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Mike Williams (BMW - USC) dominated in college, but his game didn't translate to the NFL very well.
They look to be similar height, weight and speed.
Is Benjamin more explosive and athletic?
* Guess we can't use the he didn't have a good QB excuse in 2013 to answer CSTUs question.
They look to be similar height, weight and speed.
Is Benjamin more explosive and athletic?
* Guess we can't use the he didn't have a good QB excuse in 2013 to answer CSTUs question.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
awful first step too.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Do not trust your eyes on this one. I seen some mentioned Steven Hill or Jon Baldwin. At least when you draft those guys you know the Calvin Johnson potential actually exist reading the measurables. It doesn't with Benjamin. Of the WRs I've looked at that's 6'2+, he is the worse athlete. He's near last is almost every category. Dude is a robot. His size makes him NFL worthy, but he's not going to be a star. Outside of the Fla game (I wasn't impressed watching this game) his numbers are not great. He'll be another Ramses Barden or at his absolute best Plax. He'd be an above avg athlete as a TE FWIW.
pghrob
Hail to the Chief
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
He's a tough one to figure out. There are some guys loosely similar to him (huge guys who are similarly unathletic) that have done pretty well -- Plax, Boldin, Tampa Mike Williams -- but they were all stronger prospects than Benjamin in a general sense.
So it comes down to the stuff we don't really get a good look at as outsiders. If he gets himself drafted in the first 40-50 picks I'd be a lot more comfortable with him.
So it comes down to the stuff we don't really get a good look at as outsiders. If he gets himself drafted in the first 40-50 picks I'd be a lot more comfortable with him.
cusefan115
Footballguy
Do you mean Big Mike WIlliams. I've always thought of Tampa Mike as an athletic jump ball receiver.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
He's actually a bit better than Plax and Boldin, but nothing special. He's just really thick and knows how to use his body well. Which is how Benjamin will succeed if he does IMO.
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I think benjamin displays a lot more deep separation on tape than Evans. Evans wins at the catch point more than Benjamin. I think Benjamin runs better routes
I think you're going to see a player that is going to dominate and going to frustrate. What intrigues the most about him is I don't know what your strategy is to cover him. You can't jam or try to re-route him, he's too thick and big and CBs will take the worst of that. If you play off man, he is sudden enough in his breaks with enough burst out of them to create separation deep.
There are plenty of holes in his game and his one-year wonder profile adds more risk, but he adds exactly the kind of big play "mismatch for every CB in the league when he's on" advantage that teams want in the downfield passing game.
He'll fall to the late first where a team like SF or SEA will add him.
There are plenty of holes in his game and his one-year wonder profile adds more risk, but he adds exactly the kind of big play "mismatch for every CB in the league when he's on" advantage that teams want in the downfield passing game.
He'll fall to the late first where a team like SF or SEA will add him.
If this guy can learn to lower his shoulder and plow over smaller defensive backs, I think he can make his money on Sunday. I am confident he can one some one-on-one matchups downfield on size alone. He'll need another way to create yards and from what I've seen, I think he can become a more physical receiver.
I'd love to see this guy land in Green Bay.
I'd love to see this guy land in Green Bay.
Time Kibitzer
Footballguy
Yup, if you watch all the Florida St. games you'll find that 90+% of the plays Benjamin made were simply due to some combination of poor defenders and/or refs looking the other way on push offs. I think of the 15 TDs he scored last season, he only really earned one or two of them.
r0llin_game
Footballguy
Huh? What? WR's use quickness, swift hips, good routes, speed, vertical jump, etc. to become good WR's in the nfl, not "lowering the shoulder and bulldozing over the DB." Bolded makes zero since. He's not a RB
cloppbeast
Footballguy
The combination of his age and football development concerns me. Sort of makes me question his aptitude. When drafting a raw player, one must presume he will eventually 'get it'. I have concerns whether he will develop his receiving skills.
Xue
Footballguy
Benjamin's age itself isn't the concern, it's his age AND his production that is a concern.
Who are the 4 guys you are referring to?
Borden
Footballguy
This guy is exciting as prospect because he has a ton of potential. I like him, maybe not in the first because I think there is too much quality at other positions. I think he takes the common 3 years to stud rather then the rookie stud path. He shows glimpses of burst and stretch but he seems like his muscles are too tight. He doesn't stretch out like he should. You don't see him fully extend very often. Both with his body and arms during catches nor with his legs while he's running. He will need time to work this out and QB/coach that force him to develop. They can't just get used to how he is now and get used to him running slower or not extending. GB is the great spot for him. NE would be better if their WRs were better and they could afford to not start him too soon.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Intriguing prospect to be sure. Just seems to have "it." I could see him being a better Denarius Moore.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Time Kibitzer
Footballguy
He had 15 TDs, 1000+ yards, and a 18.7 YPR last year; his production wasn't bad enough for it to be a huge concern imo.Xue said:
Leroy's Aces
Footballguy
Do the Benjamin supporters expect their fantasy WRs to frequently achieve 6 (or more) catches and 75 yards receiving in a game? Because Kelvin Benjamin only broke 75 yards 3 times in his 27 game collegiate career. And had only 2 games of 6 or more catches. The fact that he is 6' 5" 240 makes those stats even more pathetic. On top of that, he had a QB in 2012 that was a 1st round pick and his 2013 QB is considered to be the #1 overall QB prospect in the 2015 draft.
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Premier
Footballguy
False Start
Footballguy
False Start
Footballguy
Leroy's Aces
Footballguy
I didn't bring up 2011 (since he was redshirted), I brought up his 2012 and his 2013 stats.
As a 21 year old, with EJ Manuel at QB, he produced 495 yards receiving and 4 TDs. Which is less (both yards and TDs than Rashad Green (very good player, but is only 6' 175") Rodney Smith (24 year old undrafted free agent) and Kenny Shaw (probably won't be drafted). He was the 4th best WR on his own team in 2012.
As a 22 year old, he finally broke out, but only had 54 catches for 1011 yards, with 15 TDs. Throwing him the ball was probable #1 overall pick Jameis Winston. Rashad Green still outperformed Benjamin on a catch and yardage basis and even future UDFA Kenny Shaw matched his catches and almost his yards (933 to 1011). The 15 TDs are great and so are yards per catch. But the Florida game totally skews the stats. I know you can't remove that game, since it happened, but without it he has a 13 game season with 45 catches, 799 yards and 12 TDs.
And isn't it telling that a player that is supposed to be a borderline 1st round pick, "didn't even play much" (as you stated) in 2011 or 2012? Shouldn't a potential NFL first rounder be dominating the competition at lower levels if he is supposed to produce against the absolute best of the best at the professional level?
Someone brought up Watkins. Watkins walked in off the street as an 18 year old true freshman and blew up the SEC. Meanwhile, it took Benjamin 3 years to finally have a decent season as a college player. And now he is expected to move up to the pros and succeed there when he didn't breakout until age 22 in college?
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Faust
MVP
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