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Jarrett vs. Dallas Baker (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter beto
- Start date
I'm sure it's that west coast bias Jarrett has going for him.
Titus Pullo
Footballguy
Jarrett's official ebay rating: (-3)
"Slooowwww shipper, item not as described, buyer beware"
"Slooowwww shipper, item not as described, buyer beware"
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
Should be Dallas Baker Play Maker.
I've watched alot of Baker and he is alot like Keyshawn the way he uses his body to protect the ball. He also has excellent hands.
Don't know nearly as much about Jarret
I've watched alot of Baker and he is alot like Keyshawn the way he uses his body to protect the ball. He also has excellent hands.
Don't know nearly as much about Jarret
And how about jarrett having to deal with pac-10 defenders while baker had to deal with guys from the SEC? Also let's not forget about those extra 65 catches jarrett hadI'm sure it's that west coast bias Jarrett has going for him.How about 900 yards and 21 TDs more for Jarrett in one less season.
Jarrett running a 4.42 40 = The next Randy MossJarrett running a 4.52 40 = The next Plaxico BurressJarrett running a 4.62 40 = The next Mike Williams... I'm sure factors like quickness, agility, intelligence, hands, body control, jumping... don't impact a receiver's ability.Those 3,000 receiving yards and 41 TDs in 3 seasons at USC must have been a fluke.Sometimes all of the information available these days can be a hindrance... Heck, Jerry Rice would have probably dropped to the third round after his combine if he was being drafted this season.
Please move on.By that logic, I guess Dallas Baker is better than Calvin Johnson since Johnson primarly faced ACC defenses.And how about jarrett having to deal with pac-10 defenders while baker had to deal with guys from the SEC? Also let's not forget about those extra 65 catches jarrett hadI'm sure it's that west coast bias Jarrett has going for him.How about 900 yards and 21 TDs more for Jarrett in one less season.
Jiggyonthehut
Footballguy
Im not sure what the issue is here.
Three straight double digit TD seasons, two straight 1000 yard campaigns and his worst starting year was better than the other player's best. Guess who?
In all reality, however, there is quite a bit in common- maybe- in size, strength and speed. Regardless, Jarrett simply has the ability after the catch to break tackles with a combination of physicality and elusiveness. He's a better reciever who hasnt had dropsies like Baker and better as a blocker downfield. In conclusion, Jarrett is just a better version of Baker in almost all facets of the game. Both showed great body control and made some pretty tough catches during their college tenures and that ultimately will be what defines Baker in the NFL- a possession reciever. Jarrett has that big-play potential on every snap and if he can create seperation in the NFL should be a very very nice fantasy play in dynasty leagues. Especially if he starts to fall in drafts.
For those who point to the USC pedigree, I point back to the Florida one.
Three straight double digit TD seasons, two straight 1000 yard campaigns and his worst starting year was better than the other player's best. Guess who?
In all reality, however, there is quite a bit in common- maybe- in size, strength and speed. Regardless, Jarrett simply has the ability after the catch to break tackles with a combination of physicality and elusiveness. He's a better reciever who hasnt had dropsies like Baker and better as a blocker downfield. In conclusion, Jarrett is just a better version of Baker in almost all facets of the game. Both showed great body control and made some pretty tough catches during their college tenures and that ultimately will be what defines Baker in the NFL- a possession reciever. Jarrett has that big-play potential on every snap and if he can create seperation in the NFL should be a very very nice fantasy play in dynasty leagues. Especially if he starts to fall in drafts.
For those who point to the USC pedigree, I point back to the Florida one.
Titus Pullo
Footballguy
those other factors are only useful if he can get downfield. besides, a 4.62/4.67 40 time on a fast track that he been preparing for the past 2 months does not equal game speed.jerry rice had game speed and he could seperate at the line. jarrett had it easy at USC and getting separation at the line in the NFL will not be no picnic for him.JimboJim said:Jarrett running a 4.42 40 = The next Randy MossJarrett running a 4.52 40 = The next Plaxico BurressJarrett running a 4.62 40 = The next Mike Williams... I'm sure factors like quickness, agility, intelligence, hands, body control, jumping... don't impact a receiver's ability.Those 3,000 receiving yards and 41 TDs in 3 seasons at USC must have been a fluke.Sometimes all of the information available these days can be a hindrance... Heck, Jerry Rice would have probably dropped to the third round after his combine if he was being drafted this season.Please move on.
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I'm really not here to argue whether or not Jarrett is going to be an impact NFL player. However, with that being said, I find it foolish that people are willing to dismiss all of Jarrett's other attributes and his college production and label him a bust due to a fair/slow 40 time.There are many factors that go into being a wide receiver, beyond speed. Jarrett may not have the deep speed to out run many CBs on fly patterns, but his size, body control and hands should make him effective on deep outs, comebacks, middle routes and working the sidelines/endzone.Again, no one has the ability to know what kind of pro Jarrett is going to be until he hits an NFL field, but calling him any more of a risk than any receiver after CJ in this draft is a complete joke, based on his 40 time alone.those other factors are only useful if he can get downfield. besides, a 4.62/4.67 40 time on a fast track that he been preparing for the past 2 months does not equal game speed.jerry rice had game speed.JimboJim said:Jarrett running a 4.42 40 = The next Randy MossJarrett running a 4.52 40 = The next Plaxico BurressJarrett running a 4.62 40 = The next Mike Williams... I'm sure factors like quickness, agility, intelligence, hands, body control, jumping... don't impact a receiver's ability.Those 3,000 receiving yards and 41 TDs in 3 seasons at USC must have been a fluke.Sometimes all of the information available these days can be a hindrance... Heck, Jerry Rice would have probably dropped to the third round after his combine if he was being drafted this season.Please move on.
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Guapote
Footballguy
I haven't seen enough of Jarrett to have a very educated opinion, but I'd agree he's not any more or less of a risk than most of the WRs in the second tier. Regardless of the measurables, I can't see how you could rank him on the same level as Baker.
I have seen plenty of Dallas Baker, and I do think he's got a pretty good chance to be successful NFL player. Some of the comments regarding his performance in the post-season bowl games surprised me, as they didn't really mesh with what I've seen from him at UF. He had some maturity issues early in his career, but he worked through that and became a very good team player. He's got good hands, great ability to adjust in the air, and was a pretty good downfield blocker. I can understand the concerns about him getting off the line, and that might be his downfall in the NFL. I certainly wouldn't view him as somebody in that second tier of WRs, but I'm not sure he's as far away from that as some people have him rated.
Baker's penalty in the Tennessee game early in his career cost UF the game. In his senior year, he was the one getting in our young WRs faces when they did something stupid (penalty, celebration, etc), telling them they can't do stupid things like he did when he was younger. Like I said, he's grown up a lot, went through some tough times after that Tennessee game, and came through better for it. I'm pulling for him in the NFL, but I think he'll be fine even if he can't catch on somewhere.
I have seen plenty of Dallas Baker, and I do think he's got a pretty good chance to be successful NFL player. Some of the comments regarding his performance in the post-season bowl games surprised me, as they didn't really mesh with what I've seen from him at UF. He had some maturity issues early in his career, but he worked through that and became a very good team player. He's got good hands, great ability to adjust in the air, and was a pretty good downfield blocker. I can understand the concerns about him getting off the line, and that might be his downfall in the NFL. I certainly wouldn't view him as somebody in that second tier of WRs, but I'm not sure he's as far away from that as some people have him rated.
Baker's penalty in the Tennessee game early in his career cost UF the game. In his senior year, he was the one getting in our young WRs faces when they did something stupid (penalty, celebration, etc), telling them they can't do stupid things like he did when he was younger. Like I said, he's grown up a lot, went through some tough times after that Tennessee game, and came through better for it. I'm pulling for him in the NFL, but I think he'll be fine even if he can't catch on somewhere.
NorrisB
Footballguy
a little bitter are we?
beto
Footballguy
LOL, because I'm from Michigan?No. I respect what Jarrett has done in his career but when I stack up his purely physical numbers against the rest of the WRs he just looked a lot like Dallas Baker. That is where the comp came from.a little bitter are we?
I was merely looking for more information on both players and think several posters covered them very well.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
Dont know if they keep target stats on college receivers, but if they do I think you see that Dallas made good on a very high percentage of his targets and that they usually either went for a first down or a TD. Hence the nickname "Touchdown Maker". Its not like we haven't had a good receiver at Florida before. Dallas Baker makes alot of plays.LOL, because I'm from Michigan?No. I respect what Jarrett has done in his career but when I stack up his purely physical numbers against the rest of the WRs he just looked a lot like Dallas Baker. That is where the comp came from.a little bitter are we?
I was merely looking for more information on both players and think several posters covered them very well.
Having said that I think both of these receivers are going to struggle in the pro game initially. NFL corners will play up on them and make them prove they can A. Get Off The LOS and B. Beat Them Deep.
IMO I think they both will need work with hand techniques to get off the LOS. Figure a year or two before we see whether they are actually going to stick or not. I'm guessing Baker sticks, but you just never know with receivers.
To me, Baker is really a one trick pony, a jumpball getter. He looks very unnnatural and seems to body catch a lot on regular old timing routes and anything else thrown within his frame. As Cecil says, he's built like a mantis and this will surely make him very easy to push around. He flashes some RAC moves and quickness sometimes, but there's at least 20 WRs I would take before him.Jarrett, on the other hand, has sick hands and body control and the courage to go over the middle. He's also more dangerous after the catch than you would think. The problem for Jarrett will be getting off the jam, once he's in his routes, he's plenty crisp and quick enough to get open. The lack of deep speed doesnt concern me as much as him not playing physical to get off the jam despite having a frame that would suggest physical play.Regardless of Jarrett's possible fatal flaws, they are in different universes as prospects. Baker seems like a novelty WR to me.
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Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
It surprises me that you think that. He made alot of circus catches this year but I really didn't think many were jump balls ala Gates. I can remember more than a few TD passes where he used his body to shield the defender at the sideline very effectively. To me that is effective route running. He was good at finding open spots in zones as well. He also was drawing the other teams best corner most of the time. I agree he doeesn't have a natural stride but he seems to use his body very well in positioning for a catch. And he has very good hands (which is why I compared him to Keyshawn). Baker just makes plays. I can't explain it any other way. I'm surprised you read you think that he is a novelty.Sigmund Bloom said:
I do think he will struggle to get off the line initially also though. In fact I would expect both to struggle while they learn the NFL game for a few years. But I can easily see Baker becoming an effective possession receiver in the NFL.
He'll never be a TO though
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
Still stunned by this assertion. Are you just reading his physical stats (6'3" 200+ lbs) and saying he is Mantis-like? I never saw that on the field. His hands are very good and his body positioning is very good.The only common opponent this year that I could find was Arkansas. This actually was a good matchup to examine I thought since they both lined up against Chris Houston. IMO Chris Houton should be able to play good man to man defense in the NFL and should be gone in the first 15 picks.Jarrett - 10 targets 5 catches for 35 yards.Baker - 4 targets 2 catches for 25 yardsOK what does that prove (besides that they both struggled against Chris Houston and tight man-to-man)? Jarrett was targeted all over the field and against quality competition he struggled to get to anything beyond 9 yards. This was a blow out too. He SHOULD have been able to produce SOMETHING. This is contrary to your "makes plays all over the field" assertion. Bakers 2 catches both were big plays for critical first downs. He just made plays in those situations all year.Jarrett was owned. He picked up 2 first downs with his 5 catches. One was a 3rd and 2 and he still only got 5. Baker saw tougher competition overall as well and that has to slant evaluation.I realize with you all being on the west coast you see more of Jarrett than Baker, but I think you have it wrong with Baker here. Not that Jarrett will or won't be a good NFL player. BUt I think Baker is a safer bet.I think you are undervaluing what Dallas Baker brings to the table. He is a big target with hands and can play physical enough to get off the line (albiet sometimes inconsistently). Jarrett may not be able to play in the pros if he can't get off the LOS and I'm still not sold that he can.
HS, I respect your passionate defense of Baker, and lets be realistic, we are all just looking into the crystal ball here. ANYTHING can happen. Baker as "mantis" is based on his long thin limbs. I watched Baker in person for three days at the Senior Bowl practices as part my arriving at this conclusion on his prospects. Im not saying that my view is definitive because of that, its just to let you know that its not solely based on reading his ht/wt somewhere.Second, Jarrett did get manhandled by Chris Houston, and it is part of a pattern of not getting off the line against physical press coverage that is a bigger question than his perceived lack of speed if you ask me.Ill agree that his hands are good *as long as he is catching outside of his frame* and I'll agree that his natural body positioning is good, but he's also so slight that he can be banged around in the air pretty easily. I just don't see how this guy gets open in the NFL. He's not especially quick, he doesn't have legitimate separation speed, and he's not a physical player. The one thing that will translate are his instincts when the ball is in the air, but I don't know if thats enough.Also, I'll point out that if I'm wrong on this one, I won't be alone. I would say conservatively that Baker goes AT LEAST 3 rounds after Jarrett. all 32 NFL teams and most any draft rankings have Baker significantly behind Jarrett. Of course, when EVERYONE is going one direction and you are going the other, sometimes thats a great sign. I will definitely give you your deserved props if Baker hits, but I just don't see it.
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