I am an anti vaxxer (1 Viewer)

[pinkham13]

IMO, unless you have a spiritual or physical concern with getting the vaccine - you should get it.  It's the patriotic thing to do - helps the economy and looks out for your neighbors.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2021/12/covid_vaccines_pose_7_times_higher_death_risk_than_covid_for_young_people_japanese_experts_warn_.html 
Dying for big Pharma isn’t patriotic

 

[JIslander]

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2021/12/covid_vaccines_pose_7_times_higher_death_risk_than_covid_for_young_people_japanese_experts_warn_.html 
Dying for big Pharma isn’t patriotic

American Thinker?!? 

 

[LawFitz]

And I was merely trying to point out why your arguments don't come across as honest debate. I admit that I didn't do it in the best manner.

Thanks for the admission. And for clarifying your thoughts in a more respectful manner. That said, I disagree with everything else you stated...

You say you are open minded, but you use the same disproven argument over and over.

Disproven by whom? The Vax Mob? I strongly disagree that the vast majority of arguments that have been posted here have been definitively settled one way or another.

For instance, in this case you used the argument that somehow we drastically over counted the covid deaths. While I can concede there was likely mistakes made in classifying covid deaths. They weren't drastically over counted. We surely weren't attributing all deaths to covid as was claimed.

This is a prime example of how topics come delusive. It's not simply that we've drastically over-counted Covid deaths, it's that we've drastically mischaracterized them. I've accepted the 'Excess Deaths' point on it's face and agreed before that in the narrow context you guys utilize it, the numbers are alarming. BUT, I've also then expounded to ask - how many of these Excess Deaths were folks who were definitively very old and/or morbidly ill already? If it's a lot (hint: it's way WAY more than a lot), then my argument would be that those Excess Deaths are most likely statistical anomaly in that they are very simply pulling forward deaths in these folks that likely would have occurred in the next year or three. That doesn't make them okay, but it does add SIGNIFICANT and thus-far ignored context to the risk/reward equation. Did these people really die from Covid? Or did they die b/c they were already old and very ill and an extreme sickness (in this case, Covid) put them over the top? That point has been routinely ignored, just as you did again here. Correlation = Causation... Or with proper and fuller context, perhaps it didn't in the VAST majority of these instances, at least not in the simplistic and unnuanced way you frame it with 'Excess Deaths.'

Correlation = causation is not relevant to the discussion of covid deaths because those were actually recorded as deaths caused by covid as determined by doctors.

This is nothing more than Appeal to Authority, and it absolutely doesn't negate the Correlation vs. Causation question, especially in light of known financial mis-incentives to report COD objectively - and the EXTREMELY high % of Covid deaths with comorbidities.

This is in contrast to the VAERS numbers which are specifically not listed as caused by vaccines. They are deaths that happened sometime after the vaccine.

The statistically significant majority of deaths were reported to VAERS in close temporal proximity to Covax date - I believe within two days, if I recall correctly. That said, I have agreed several times that it's fair to discount a good/great number of these as 'Correlation <> Causation.' I've even gone to extreme illustrations of dismissing up to **90%** of them for effect. Even that wasn't acceptable to your side. My issue has been all along that it's absurd to dismiss ALL of them to 'C <> C,' which is what the Vax Mob keeps doing, using extremely faulty and very obviously cognitively-dissonant logic.

If you want to believe there was as many deaths caused by the vaccine as have been caused by covid, be my guest. But quit pretending like recorded covid deaths are somehow equal to VAERS data.

And here is yet another example of misrepresenting my words and position. When did I state either of the two positions you attribute to me in this quote box? Present my quotes, buddy. You won't be able, because I NEVER made either claim. These are nothing more than your inferences - or even worse, deliberate Strawman Argument attempts. Either way, it's not a good look for you, and yes it will set me off most of the time - but perhaps that is your true intent. I don't know, but if it keeps happening, eventually our dialogue will end completely, out of my choice, not yours.

 

[tymarsas]

You haven’t disproven anything the CMS data show 800,000 deaths in two weeks after the shot. The flu shot was half that number but some got both at the same time. If you think alll 800,000 are not related it doesn’t mean they’re not. The Japanese said 7 times as many are dying from the shots as Covid.https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2021/12/covid_vaccines_pose_7_times_higher_death_risk_than_covid_for_young_people_japanese_experts_warn_.html

That's not what the CMS data shows. It is only used as a way to calculate the underreporting factor on VAERS. It's an estimate that is trying to extrapolate data from one source by using a completely different source. It's likely widely inaccurate.

And of those deaths, most of them are caused by things other than the vaccine. That's how VAERS is designed. To record any adverse events regardless if they are related to the vaccine. Previously you stated that you think there have been over 400k deaths from the vaccine (or so I recall).

The leading cause of death in the US is heart disease at 660k or so. You think that the vaccine is suddenly causing nearly as many deaths as the leading cause of death? And that they are somehow covering that up? That doesn't seem realistic.

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm

 

[LawFitz]

American Thinker?!? 

JIslander doesn't like the messenger. So no one should consider the message.

You guys will never stop doing this, will you? All good, we'll just have to point out the 'Attack the Messenger' fallacy every time then. Carry on.

 

[JIslander]

JIslander doesn't like the messenger. So no one should consider the message.

You guys will never stop doing this, will you? All good, we'll just have to point out the 'Attack the Messenger' fallacy every time then. Carry on.

"Biden thinks COVID Deaths are Amusing".   Really??? I just picked one article.  Yes, don't like that messenger one bit.  Total misinformation. 

 

[pinkham13]

American Thinker?!? 

Links go directly to Japanese health ministry. It’s legit.

 

[pinkham13]

"Biden thinks COVID Deaths are Amusing".   Really??? I just picked one article.  Yes, don't like that messenger one bit.  Total misinformation. 

Nah Japanese just more honest with their people

 

[tymarsas]

Because 'correlation <> causation' only applies when it's convenient for them.

When did I state either of the two positions you attribute to me in this quote box?

You have repeated made the above claim. My point is that it is relevant in the case of the VAERS deaths because those are not meant to be an accurate count of dealths caused by vaccines. They are meant to be count of possible deaths by vaccines. The number could be 0 or it could be equal to the VAERS data. There is no causation intended. The official covid numbers do intend causation because they are how the deaths are recorded. There may be inaccuracies there, but they are not off by 50% or anything like that. In this case, causation is in fact the goal of that count.

Regarding the other claim, that you said vaccine deaths are equal to the number of covid deaths. My mistake. I confused you with the other poster who said there were over 400k vaccine deaths.

 

[Witz]

Dude, read the post that was in response to. Mine was a mirror post to display to that poster how he is coming across towards me and others. Where is your 'be better' for that poster? Be consistent with your didactic comments at minimum, if you expect me to give them any serious consideration.

You and others do this regularly in your exchanges with me. You make derisive and inflammatory posts towards me, often attacking my character by twisting my words and sometimes even through outright lies. And then when I give it right back to you - very commonly in a deliberately-obvious reflective manner to convey to you how those tactics look and feel coming right back at you - you then shift to a high horse and accuse me of doing what your side is doing. While objectively annoying, these exchanges to serve a great purpose - they clearly illustrate your side's desperate tactics whenever you get frustrated with actually debating the points I make about the subjects at hand.

I'm sure reading that doesn't feel good. But really be honest and ask yourself if what I am describing might be true. Go back to most (all?) heated exchanges I've had in the Covid threads and see if my above descriptions hold. I think you'd be surprised by what you find if you take an truly objective look back.

As was requested - be better. 

 

[LawFitz]

That's not what the CMS data shows. It is only used as a way to calculate the underreporting factor on VAERS. It's an estimate that is trying to extrapolate data from one source by using a completely different source. It's likely widely inaccurate.

And of those deaths, most of them are caused by things other than the vaccine. That's how VAERS is designed. To record any adverse events regardless if they are related to the vaccine. Previously you stated that you think there have been over 400k deaths from the vaccine (or so I recall).

The leading cause of death in the US is heart disease at 660k or so. You think that the vaccine is suddenly causing nearly as many deaths as the leading cause of death? And that they are somehow covering that up? That doesn't seem realistic.

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm

I need to go back and find the article to dig into the numbers with more scrutiny, but I'm fairly sure I read recently that there has been an alarming and thus-far unexplained large number of excess deaths in recent months - not attributable to Covid. I believe the data was from the UK, but don't recall for sure. 

And I know that I've read articles indicating that hospitals are being overwhelmed right now - not by Covid patients, but people coming in with tons of other acute and severe issues - in numbers far greater than prior years' norms. Of course, the Covax-apologists immediately started rationalizing that it's b/c people deferred treatment during lockdowns - and they may be right, TBD - but their logic does contain some immediate room for debate, e.g. we've been out of lockdown and with vaxxes for most of this year that have made people feel safe to go back to the doctor's office - why is it suddenly hoards of people are coming down with a multitude of hospital-visit worthy ailments just in recent months, right along the timeline of waning Vax effectiveness and the most-likely window for VED effects? Nothing definitive at all yet, but this data point does raise my 'watching for societal signs of VED/ADE' radars a bit. Hoping it's just year-end maintenance, but watching for a continuation of the pattern into next year in case it isn't. Let's all keep tabs and pray this trend is just catch-up visitations as many here have already concluded.

 

[pinkham13]

JIslander doesn't like the messenger. So no one should consider the message.

You guys will never stop doing this, will you? All good, we'll just have to point out the 'Attack the Messenger' fallacy every time then. Carry on.

Then he denies Biden laughed off questions about death classy. It’s on mainstream tv.

 

[LawFitz]

"Biden thinks COVID Deaths are Amusing".   Really??? I just picked one article.  Yes, don't like that messenger one bit.  Total misinformation. 

One bad article on that site - even several if it's the case - doesn't completely negate the article he posted. Sure, it reasonably brings it into question and subject to greater scrutiny - but you're throwing out a potential baby simply because she's in dirty bathwater.

 

[pinkham13]

Is this link okhttps://www.npojip.org/english/MedCheck/Med Check Tip-20-2021-08&12.pdf

They don’t have any anti Biden stuff for the easily triggered they do note the cardio risk for young people is down right horrifying. Do no harm right?

 

[LawFitz]

As was requested - be better. 

I try very hard to be.

Maybe you should consider following your own advice/request/demand. Or just keep doing what you are doing, which is derailing topics with personal attacks. And make no mistake, your last two posts were thinly-veiled passive-aggressive examples of exactly that. I've not once ever reported someone on the FBG for the multitudes of inflammatory and inciteful behaviors I've come across here, and I certainly won't start now. But you are being exactly what you are accusing me of. Think about it.

 

[Witz]

I try very hard to be.

Maybe you should consider following your own advice/request/demand. Or just keep doing what you are doing, which is derailing topics with personal attacks. And make no mistake, your last two posts were thinly-veiled passive-aggressive examples of exactly that. I've not once ever reported someone on the FBG for the multitudes of inflammatory and inciteful behaviors I've come across here, and I certainly won't start now. But you are being exactly what you are accusing me of. Think about it.

Please feel free to share any posts I made after J closed the other thread and subsequently said in another thread to be better that in any way corresponds to what you are saying here.

Go on - I’ll wait. 

 

[pinkham13]

Please feel free to share any posts I made after J closed the other thread and subsequently said in another thread to be better that in any way corresponds to what you are saying here.

Go on - I’ll wait. 

I’m still waiting for you big Pharma warp speed fans to tell me how the Japanese ministry of health is misinformation. Please stay on topic. 
https://www.npojip.org/english/MedCheck/Med Check Tip-20-2021-08&12.pdf

 

[Witz]

I’m still waiting for you big Pharma warp speed fans to tell me how the Japanese ministry of health is misinformation. Please stay on topic. 
https://www.npojip.org/english/MedCheck/Med Check Tip-20-2021-08&12.pdf

The link you literally just posted 11 minutes ago? I’ll look it over. 

 

[tonydead]

Biden laughed off questions about death classy. It’s on mainstream tv.

100% true.  

 

[LawFitz]

Then he denies Biden laughed off questions about death classy. It’s on mainstream tv.

Very sadly, the 'Attack the Messenger' tactic is long and strong with these folks. They've been doing it for so long that it's clearly just reactive instinct for many of them now. Certainly, I'm not the first person to call them out for it, yet it continues day after day, topic after topic. Let's just point out when they do it to hopefully help open the minds and views of who are doing it out of bad habit, rather than nefarious argument tactics - I am sure many here actually fit into the former category.

 

[LawFitz]

Please feel free to share any posts I made after J closed the other thread and subsequently said in another thread to be better that in any way corresponds to what you are saying here.

Go on - I’ll wait. 

Dude, the two posts you made to me to 'be better' qualify. Re-read my last reply to you, where I thought I made that abundantly clear. How about we let Joe be the arbiter of 'better' rather than you. Thanks.

 

[pinkham13]

Very sadly, the 'Attack the Messenger' tactic is long and strong with these folks. They've been doing it for so long that it's clearly just reactive instinct for many of them now. Certainly, I'm not the first person to call them out for it, yet it continues day after day, topic after topic. Let's just point out when they do it to hopefully help open the minds and views of who are doing it out of bad habit, rather than nefarious argument tactics - I am sure many here actually fit into the former category.

Agreed. I want people to come together for a change and stop letting numbskulls like Trump and Biden divide us. It’s tough because I have lost healthy people. Healthy nurses. Hopefully we can come together and see what the Japanese are saying among others

 

[Witz]

Dude, the two posts you made to me to 'be better' qualify. Re-read my last reply to you, where I thought I made that abundantly clear. How about we let Joe be the arbiter of 'better' rather than you. Thanks.

So nothing? It’s ok - I knew you wouldn’t find anything. Your mind is already made up regarding your beliefs on this subject so we’ll agree to disagree. 

Have a good night. 

 

[pinkham13]

Dude, the two posts you made to me to 'be better' qualify. Re-read my last reply to you, where I thought I made that abundantly clear. How about we let Joe be the arbiter of 'better' rather than you. Thanks.

Alright guys let’s stop now. Back on topic

 

[sho nuff]

Very sadly, the 'Attack the Messenger' tactic is long and strong with these folks. They've been doing it for so long that it's clearly just reactive instinct for many of them now. Certainly, I'm not the first person to call them out for it, yet it continues day after day, topic after topic. Let's just point out when they do it to hopefully help open the minds and views of who are doing it out of bad habit, rather than nefarious argument tactics - I am sure many here actually fit into the former category.

Because sources like American Thinker should be highly questioned.  They are not credible in any way shape or form.  Extreme right wing sources that constantly push misinformation and pseudoscience should be attacked.  Its an awful source that shouldn’t be taken seriously by anyone.

https://adfontesmedia.com/american-thinker-bias-and-reliability/

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/american-thinker/?amp=1

 

[LawFitz]

So nothing? It’s ok - I knew you wouldn’t find anything. Your mind is already made up regarding your beliefs on this subject so we’ll agree to disagree. 

Have a good night. 

Just b/c you chose to ignore the two examples I provided you doesn't make them nothing. You asked, and I answered. And here you are back again trying to incite me. Regardless of your continued attacks on my character, my mind is and always will be open. I'll say it to you again and then we can agree to disagree - try following your own advice, bud... Be better.

 

[LawFitz]

Because sources like American Thinker should be highly questioned.  They are not credible in any way shape or form.  Extreme right wing sources that constantly push misinformation and pseudoscience should be attacked.  Its an awful source that shouldn’t be taken seriously by anyone.

https://adfontesmedia.com/american-thinker-bias-and-reliability/

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/american-thinker/?amp=1

It's dirty bathwater to you, I get it. Maybe it is to many others as well, perhaps also, it's not to some others. The latter you don't seem to want to acknowledge or respect at all, which IMO is way more dangerous than information, even 'misinformation.'

But let's refocus away from the deflection of the website not fitting your standards and back to the original message itself... How about the baby that the poster was actually pointing toward?... Any opinion there, or did you just throw her out without any consideration whatsoever?

 

[sho nuff]

The message itself has no credibility is the point.  And its a waste of time to have to debunk every bit of misinformation posted from such places.   And seems a waste of time to try and reason with some.  Good day.

 

[shadrap]

I appreciate any skepticism of this covid thing with open arms.  I'm not firmly entrenched in either camp.  I've had both jabs, masks, distancing,-you name it.  Starting to question all of it.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Just b/c you chose to ignore the two examples I provided you doesn't make them nothing. You asked, and I answered. And here you are back again trying to incite me. Regardless of your continued attacks on my character, my mind is and always will be open. I'll say it to you again and then we can agree to disagree - try following your own advice, bud... Be better.

Dude, the two posts you made to me to 'be better' qualify. Re-read my last reply to you, where I thought I made that abundantly clear. How about we let Joe be the arbiter of 'better' rather than you. Thanks.

 

[LawFitz]

No reason at all for your rather inciting post. None.

And besides, you utterly misconstrued my reflective point to him with the bolded in the first quote you listed. Yet another sad example of what I stated just a bit upthread that you guys repeatedly do... i.e. Incite others into reflexive and reflective responses, and then call them out for bad behavior. It's hypocritical to no end. Shame on you.

 

[SoBeDad]

I appreciate any skepticism of this covid thing with open arms.  I'm not firmly entrenched in either camp.  I've had both jabs, masks, distancing,-you name it.  Starting to question all of it.

We're relearning and reliving and remembering how pandemics and viral surges happened in the past, including just over a year ago. Everyone won't die with the flu or Covid, but the healthcare system can get overloaded quickly with the exponential nature of disease spread. Remember the overwhelmed hospitals in China, Italy, NY, and LA? In Miami, funeral homes used refrigerated trucks during 2 of the surges.

In the Netflix documentary "Pandemic: How to Prevent an Outbreak" which was produced just before Covid, you can see how a hospital and ER doctor in a small rural town in Oklahoma got overwhelmed with the flu . That's what we're trying to prevent, along with the deaths. And the vaccine worked great at doing that in the huge July-Sep 2021 surge in Florida where the vast majority of those in the ICU and morgue were the unvacvinated, many younger people with health issues. The documentary shows the surveillance in place around the world including capturing and testing birds and bats in the middle east and swamps of Louisiana. I don't see a big problem with using masks in tight quarters, such as a comedy club. Or social distancing when cases increase. I think we're all experiencing COVID fatigue.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

  I've had both jabs, masks, distancing,-you name it.  Starting to question all of it.

Anti vaxxer.

 

[KarmaPolice]

No reason at all for your rather inciting post. None.

And besides, you utterly misconstrued my reflective point to him with the bolded in the first quote you listed. Yet another sad example of what I stated just a bit upthread that you guys repeatedly do... i.e. Incite others into reflexive and reflective responses, and then call them out for bad behavior. It's hypocritical to no end. Shame on you.

Just thought it was funny.   The PSF is starting to wind you a little tight, GB.  

 

[jhib]

Another study from CMS reports not only supports Fitzlaws viewpoint they think the numbers are much much higher.

https://vaersanalysis.info/2021/12/13/using-cms-whistleblower-data-to-approximate-the-under-reporting-factor-for-vaers/

Renz "Whisteblower" data from CMS falsely claims death rate higher for SARS-CoV-2 vaccine than flu

This is way to short and simple a summary, but...

First refers to an earlier blog post addressing background rates and the CMS numbers:

these number of deaths fell within what was expected as the background rate of death in the population and so did not provide any evidence at all that the SARS-CoV-2 vaccines had caused any excess deaths in this population.

And then addresses the comparison to the flu vaccine :

When accounting for the fact that SARS-CoV-2 is given in two doses and influenza vaccines in 1, these data do not provide any evidence that SARS-CoV-2 vaccines cause any excess deaths relative to the background rate after influenza vaccines.

 

[drummer]

r/HermanCainAward

 

[pinkham13]

French health authorities say no more Moderna shots due to heart attacks and strokeshttps://www.leparisien.fr/societe/sante/vaccination-contre-le-covid-la-has-deconseille-moderna-pour-les-doses-de-rappel-15-10-2021-NT6GTH2NEZADVJ7ZRQ6GWFPLLE.php

 

[pinkham13]

Nobel prize winner says the shots are causing the variants

https://www.globalresearch.ca/bombshell-nobel-prize-winner-reveals-covid-vaccine-creating-variants/5746003

 

[pinkham13]

Because sources like American Thinker should be highly questioned.  They are not credible in any way shape or form.  Extreme right wing sources that constantly push misinformation and pseudoscience should be attacked.  Its an awful source that shouldn’t be taken seriously by anyone.

https://adfontesmedia.com/american-thinker-bias-and-reliability/

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/american-thinker/?amp=1

https://www.globalresearch.ca/bombshell-nobel-prize-winner-reveals-covid-vaccine-creating-variants/5746003

 

[pinkham13]

Is news week ok to post on here? https://www.newsweek.com/cdc-100-people-vaccinated-jj-covid-shot-developed-guillain-barre-syndrome-1608987

 

[sho nuff]

https://www.globalresearch.ca/bombshell-nobel-prize-winner-reveals-covid-vaccine-creating-variants/5746003

Do you think posting from yet another conspiracy source is somehow making your point that places like American Thinker are legitimate?  That site may be worse.  

Seriously...find yourself some real sources.  That one is awful.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/global-research/

https://www.quora.com/Journalistic-Ethics-and-Norms-How-legitimate-is-The-Centre-for-Global-Research

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Chossudovsky

 

[Roger Sterling]

Is news week ok to post on here? https://www.newsweek.com/cdc-100-people-vaccinated-jj-covid-shot-developed-guillain-barre-syndrome-1608987

What point do you think you are making?

 

[Witz]

Is news week ok to post on here? https://www.newsweek.com/cdc-100-people-vaccinated-jj-covid-shot-developed-guillain-barre-syndrome-1608987

Per the article -

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) received reports that 100 people who got the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine developed Guillain-Barre syndrome, a rare autoimmune disorder where one's own immune system attacks the nerves, causing muscle weakness and sometimes paralysis.

These reported cases only represent a fraction of the nearly 13 million Americans who received the vaccine. Most cases occurred in men age 50 and over about two weeks after their received their single dose, the CDC said in a statement.

So 100 out of 13 million. 

Chances of dying in a car accident - 1 out of 107 yet people still drive all the time. 

 

[jhib]

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2021/12/covid_vaccines_pose_7_times_higher_death_risk_than_covid_for_young_people_japanese_experts_warn_.html 
Dying for big Pharma isn’t patriotic

Links go directly to Japanese health ministry. It’s legit.

Nah Japanese just more honest with their people

I’m still waiting for you big Pharma warp speed fans to tell me how the Japanese ministry of health is misinformation. Please stay on topic. 
https://www.npojip.org/english/MedCheck/Med Check Tip-20-2021-08&12.pdf

Agreed. I want people to come together for a change and stop letting numbskulls like Trump and Biden divide us. It’s tough because I have lost healthy people. Healthy nurses. Hopefully we can come together and see what the Japanese are saying among others

Could you summarize any important points coming out of Japan's Ministry of Health that you think are important here?  Is it just this part of their "Instructions for the COVID-19 vaccination" form?

 Although extremely rare, mild cases of myocarditis and pericarditis have been reported after vaccination (*2). If you experience symptoms such as chest pain, palpitations, shortness of breath, or swelling within a few days after vaccination, please visit a medical institution immediately. (*2) This is more common after the second inoculation than the first inoculation, and tends to be more common among younger people, especially men.

 

[jhib]

French health authorities say no more Moderna shots due to heart attacks and strokeshttps://www.leparisien.fr/societe/sante/vaccination-contre-le-covid-la-has-deconseille-moderna-pour-les-doses-de-rappel-15-10-2021-NT6GTH2NEZADVJ7ZRQ6GWFPLLE.php

That is not what that link says.  Were you getting that impression from reading the linked site, or from another place linking to the same site?

 

[LawFitz]

Do you think posting from yet another conspiracy source is somehow making your point that places like American Thinker are legitimate?  That site may be worse.  

Seriously...find yourself some real sources.  That one is awful.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/global-research/

https://www.quora.com/Journalistic-Ethics-and-Norms-How-legitimate-is-The-Centre-for-Global-Research

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Chossudovsky

The virologist who is being interviewed in that article is world renowned and won the Nobel prize for discovering the HIV virus. He claims that the vaccines are responsible for the variants due to adaptive selection and that some people who are getting vaxxed are developing ADE. Sounds familiar.

 

[jhib]

Nobel prize winner says the shots are causing the variants

https://www.globalresearch.ca/bombshell-nobel-prize-winner-reveals-covid-vaccine-creating-variants/5746003

No, COVID-19 Vaccines Do Not Cause New Coronavirus Variants

Peter Stoilov, PhD, an associate professor of biochemistry who is leading the SARS-CoV-2 variant sequencing efforts in West Virginia, described Montagnier’s argument as “completely bonkers.”

“The fact on which he bases his argument is that mutations can change epitopes that the immune system has learned from the vaccination, and this gives some selective advantage to the virus. Consequently, in his mind, this would ‘create’ new, more dangerous variants,” he said.

However, Stoilov pointed out that “selection does not cause new variants to emerge; it merely selects some of them.”

“Mutations and variants occur randomly and independently of vaccination or any other selection process. In fact, they may precede selection by years or millennia,” Stoilov said.

He further explained that the mutations defining the current SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern emerged before vaccines were created or became widely available.

He added that they emerged in multiple independent unvaccinated individuals from across the globe, and they continue to reoccur randomly in unrelated lineages of the virus.

Stoilov said it’s a well-established fact that selection does not cause mutations.

“The facts that Dr. Montagnier ignores are that, while vaccination may select for some variants, it is still effective at suppressing them and the overall effect is a dramatic reduction of infections and a milder disease when the virus manages to break through the vaccine,” he said.

Stoilov said that Montagnier is not only mistaking correlation for causation with his claim, but that he isn’t even using a viable correlation to make the argument.

“The variants of concern frequency increase correlates to some degree to the onset of vaccination. But, this is the same as claiming that pirates are causing global warming. This correlation merely reflects the similar times it took for the virus to mutate and spread, and for us to develop the vaccines and start applying them,” he said.

If vaccines were creating new dangerous variants, then Stoilov said we would see proportionately more new variants emerging over time among vaccinated populations than with unvaccinated parts of the world.

There would also be a lot more diversity among the virus variants in countries with high vaccination rates, and increased disease spread and mortality among vaccinated people.

“We see nothing of that. In fact, we see exactly the opposite,” Stoilov said. “In places with high vaccination rates, the case numbers and mortality are dropping; virus diversity is limited to few (one to three) variants; and, so far, no new variants are emerging among vaccinated populations.”

I imagine LawFitz will object to me "attacking the messenger" here, but I feel it important to note since you didn't even refer Montagnier by name but only stressed his Nobel Prize...  He has been roundly criticized among the scientific community for many of the views he has espoused since his work on HIV, including his ridiculous backing of clear pseudoscience like homeopathy.

 

[LawFitz]

No, COVID-19 Vaccines Do Not Cause New Coronavirus Variants

I imagine LawFitz will object to me "attacking the messenger" here, but I feel it important to note since you didn't even refer Montagnier by name but only stressed his Nobel Prize...  He has been roundly criticized among the scientific community for many of the views he has espoused since his work on HIV, including his ridiculous backing of clear pseudoscience like homeopathy.

As the professor you quoted notes, mutations themselves are indeed random, but the selection process of which ones thrive isn't when you mass vaccinate in the midst of a pandemic with immensely leaky vaxxes. That adaptive selection causes the rise of certain variants that are vax resistant, and thus adaptively selected among all naturally occurring variants for that exact reason.

 

[Witz]

The virologist who is being interviewed in that article is world renowned and won the Nobel prize for discovering the HIV virus. He claims that the vaccines are responsible for the variants due to adaptive selection and that some people who are getting vaxxed are developing ADE. Sounds familiar.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-health-coronavirus-idUSL2N2ND0WS

There is no confirmed record where this individual made the comment about vaxxed individuals developing ADE. 

 

[sho nuff]

The virologist who is being interviewed in that article is world renowned and won the Nobel prize for discovering the HIV virus. He claims that the vaccines are responsible for the variants due to adaptive selection and that some people who are getting vaxxed are developing ADE. Sounds familiar.

He may be...is there a reason there isn't peer reviewed information from the virologist on anything resembling a credible source.  Do you see the issue with a conspiracy site like that pushing this...and nobody else picking it up?  Do you think they may misrepresent things?