How To Get To Heaven When You Die (2 Viewers)

[Politician Spock]

The Bible doesn't teach universal redemption.

True. But the first letter of the new testament wasn't even penned until two decades after Christ, and it took many decades more for all the NT books to be written. Then a couple centuries passed before men decided to cannonize the letters they agreed with into the bible, so that letters they didn't agree with could be construed as less important. That naturally led to fundamentalists taking the position of the letters chosen as cannon being the word of God and innerant. Of course, the pressing questions is, is the resulting teaching of the bible what the early Jerusalem church believed? Or is it a modified, or even alternate teaching that had the benefit of being the religion of choice of one of the world's historic super powers?

 

[matuski]

Man Dies And Sees Hell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23JR_WuBfGg

That guy is the proof? I'm more depressed than ever. I do wish it were true...

You wish there is a hell?It's hard to believe we need a place called hell. - INXS

Yeah because then heaven would be true as well, right?

Why do both have to exist? I mean really, think about it. When our kids have a pet that dies, we tell them they've gone to pet heaven. But if one can't exist without the other, then why do we tell our kids their pet went to pet heaven when they could have just as easily gone to pet hell?

If we believe in a universal redemption at the second coming, it's easy to be hopeful that there is no such thing as hell. It's not an uncommon thing among theologians. Certainly unpopular among fundamentalists who want to see the heathens burn though.

Another instance where someone like me can only sit back and marvel at the fact it is even possible to make arguments that completely oppose each other on the most basic tenets of the Bible. Heaven and Hell are the carrot and the stick of Christianity.

I have my obvious stance on whether or not either exist, but I can't fathom how you could argue from a point of belief that they don't exist. You would be ignoring the most base appeals used in religion... see your loved ones again (carrot) or burn in eternal suffering (stick).

 

[tonydead]

Well if it's the only alternative I would hope it does not exist.

Why do we have to say anything when a person, animal etc. dies? The ones saying darn well don't know what they are saying is true and it's a really good chance it's not true, at least in my book.

Why can't we just say "that person died and doesn't exist anymore and we will miss him/her" ?

We've talked about it before, but, it's the believers that are the worst at funerals. I mean if they truly believe in heaven why do they take it so hard? Seems like it wouldn't be that big of deal, I mean sure they'll miss that person for a few years but after that it's nothing but glorious ever after. Logic would say they should be celebrating not mourning. That's always baffled me.

If you put as much effort into making the world a better place as you do portraying religious people as ####heads, there would be no war or disease.

How many lies did you squeeze into so few words? Four? Five?

Hi Bruce,

I see that you are having issues with my posts, again. Below are a couple of things that might help:

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Hope that helps.

 

[tonydead]

In universal redemption purgatory is like God's rehab facility.

 

[Zow]

It's easy (fun?) to debate back and forth with apologists, but it ultimately gets us nowhere. I honestly don't think they have a leg to stand on, if we're talking about real, strong evidence. If we're honest with ourselves, faith/belief is just that. It's not scientific or rational. What's more fascinating to me at the moment is why one person looks at an event in their life and feels a connection to a supernatural being, and another feels nothing. Is it just wishful thinking on the part of the believer? An inability to explain the event in rational terms? I'd love to hear more anecdotes from the believers concerning such events in their lives, and why they think/feel there is a connection to a god?

Faith isn't about evidence. It isn't about proof. This is where apologists come off the rails of being useful to many they think they are protecting, IMO.

If faith in something, whether it be Jesus or Krishna or whoever, helps folks navigate through life in a peaceful way that makes them happy... then so what? Who are we to try and crush that faith? The gospel of Luke tells us that the kingdom of God is within the person. It isn't "here or there" where it can be seen. Sounds like it takes faith in that statement to believe it. I see people with this type of faith everyday. I live with one in particular. She doesn't care if there wasn't a real global flood, or if Jesus rode one or two donkeys into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday, or if two guys named Peter and Paul fought over dietary restrictions or circumcision.

She has faith that the short life we have on this planet is not the end. She has faith that she will see deceased loved ones again one day where they will all live happily ever after. She puts her faith in Jesus and that faith gives her hope and peace. It's hard to argue against that.

As a skeptic I agree 100% with the bold. I know many people who take great joy and hope in their belief in god and honestly what harm are they causing?

The problem I have is with those who would use this faith to do terrible things like voting in favor of restricting rights to certain people, wanting to put their faith in classroom science textbooks, or telling women what to do with their bodies, etc. I know so many people who are able to have faith, yet at the same time have a modicum of common sense and take a live and let live approach, that when I see people who aren't able to do this, it's really infuriating.

Well put. It's why I find evangelists to be the epitome of narcissistic, arrogant, jag-offs.

 

[Paddington]

...

 

[Binky The Doormat]

...

Best thing you have said in here.

 

[CowboysFromHell]

un-

 

[Tanner9919]

1. There is no god.

2. No one parted a sea or spoke to a burning bush. No one walked on water.

Theres NO NEED to wear a beanie or burka or habbit or priestly collar.

Just stop.

Had anyone ever come back from 'the other side'?

No.

Youve been waiting 2000+ years for a guy to come back. I mean, when do you finally realize you ARE alone.He is NOT coming back.

You know , when dis Greek Mythology become Mythology? At some point people actually believed there was a Poseidon and Zeus.

Then it stopped

When is that eureka moment going to happed for all of you 'believers'?

And to think you are so simple minded to believe that your fake god is better than ther other group's fake god and so on.and you kill each other over it? Its lunacy.theres a reason none of the greatest minds believe in a god..not Carl Sagan.not Einstein.Not Hawking.

There is no hily ghost.no trinity.

No ten commandments.no 'chosen people' whatever that means.

No such thing as the holy land.its a country in the sand. Nothing more.

 

[Tanner9919]

Sorry for typos on my google android.