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How to Buy a New Car- I might save you money (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter AcerFC
- Start date
ghostguy123
Footballguy
How does carmax make money? The dealerships are cheaper if you just pay the sticker price.
So is there a trick to get a better new car price these days? Looking at a new Honda CRV LX or maybe a 2-3 year old version.
I have an "appointment" tomorrow. I have a printout offer from one Honda dealership and am taking it to the new dealership. Any other tricks? Things to say? Things not to say? I do not have a trade in.
So is there a trick to get a better new car price these days? Looking at a new Honda CRV LX or maybe a 2-3 year old version.
I have an "appointment" tomorrow. I have a printout offer from one Honda dealership and am taking it to the new dealership. Any other tricks? Things to say? Things not to say? I do not have a trade in.
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
Do the salesmen prefer you finance or pay cash?
belljr
Footballguy
I don't know about the salesman since we didn't get a cut but the finance guys cares. If you are financing through them all the interest goes to them. Unless you are talking the 0% loans. They just want to sell
Where I worked was used so we would prefer cash obviously. Guaranteed full payment right away and no risk. But in the end it was the same commission
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Nugget
Footballguy
Overall they prefer you finance, but not much. Most banks are just playing a flat fee to F&I teams now. They throw 200-300 to the dealership for the loan origination and doing the paperwork. Too much competition for cheap money to hold rate.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
FWIW, I've used Checkbook.com's CarBargain as a buyer using this same process in the past.
Benefits include that the service buys many thousands of cars each year, so dealers know they're legit and also that, since the buyers are savvy and other dealers are 100% going to reply, they're going to have to work the # to get the sale.
Cost is $250 up front (was $140 when I did it), but easily worth it my opinion not to have to do anything and get the benefit of having a big buyer behind you.
Walked in with a check and walked out 15 minutes later with my car. No hassle.
ETA: "Our customers save an average of $1,572 compared to TRUECar®"
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jm192
Footballguy
I spent a lot of time researching this when I was buying my truck back in December. Mostly via YouTube.
I’m also the belief that most dealers prefer you finance, but I don’t know if they’re going to change the deal over it. They do usually have a rebate if you finance with their specific lender. For example I bought a ram, and there was a $500 rebate for financing through Chrysler financing.
My bank had a better rate, so I went with the bank, but it wasn’t until we were pretty far into the process that I learned there were loan origination fees through the bank.
I’m also the belief that most dealers prefer you finance, but I don’t know if they’re going to change the deal over it. They do usually have a rebate if you finance with their specific lender. For example I bought a ram, and there was a $500 rebate for financing through Chrysler financing.
My bank had a better rate, so I went with the bank, but it wasn’t until we were pretty far into the process that I learned there were loan origination fees through the bank.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Any tips for purchasing a new Nissan Z without paying way over invoice?
Hawks64
Footballguy
Good luck? A car that will be in high demand during a period of supply chain issues doesn't seem like you're going to sniff it even at invoice.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Jobber
Footballguy
There are very few dealerships these days not marking up new cars by thousands. But, I would call around, there may be some out there with more scruples.
The alternative is to order a Tesla. They don’t mark up as far as I know. They have been raising prices, but what you lock in at online is what you pay. Also look at Rivian and maybe Polestar who may be similar.
The alternative is to order a Tesla. They don’t mark up as far as I know. They have been raising prices, but what you lock in at online is what you pay. Also look at Rivian and maybe Polestar who may be similar.
Sullie
Footballguy
Have you seen this? It's a timeline on the release of the new Z, pretty cool I thought.
https://www.newnissanz.com/threads/2023-nissan-z-launch-timeline-revealed-production-media-first-drives-sales-start.1066/
I was driving through my local Ford dealership and I noticed they had the sticker price, ADM and all these BS fees tacked on the price of a badlands Bronco (I'm not interested in a Bronco but my eye wanders toward F-150's every now and then) but I spotted this insane markup of like $25,000 and I just cannot wrap my mind around this. I cannot believe people are just so damned stupid with their money that would do this. I don't care if you're a millionaire, unless you won the lottery, why would you waste your money this way? Look at this, scroll through this link, to my shock (and horror) these dealerships are right near me here in Indy. Brutal! Those are from 2021 but I'm STILL seeing markups like this on Broncos, come on people, don't piss away your hard earned money like this!
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
HFS on those up charges. I 100% don’t get it either. If those charges are there that means people have already paid them or else the dealership wouldn’t be selling anything.
The only thing I can think is happening is house prices blowing up, crypto money creation and stock prices to the point where people think they’ve gotten free money and according to TikTok and YouTube you aren’t anything without a Lambo so to speak. I feel like a weirdo because we’ve got a huge chunk of equity in my house (LTV of 25%) and I’ve got no urge to use it.
I’m just glad I bought my wife’s new Jeep at the end of 2020 because I don’t think we’d get the same $5k off MSRP. Also glad youngest still has a couple years before he might need something or gets mine and I need something. I just checked Carvana and found a same year Jeep with everything the same except without the one touch top we have. Taking out the taxes we paid and the option difference and it’s basically over $8k more now and we got ours brand new. Damn.
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gianmarco
Footballguy
When we were looking for a car, it seems the way to avoid the markup is to place an order for a vehicle and you can get it for MSRP.
The issue with that, obviously, is that you have to wait for the car to be produced/allocated to the dealership. That can be anywhere from several weeks to several months depending on the car and the dealership.
Buying a car now is insane.
The issue with that, obviously, is that you have to wait for the car to be produced/allocated to the dealership. That can be anywhere from several weeks to several months depending on the car and the dealership.
Buying a car now is insane.
snellman
Footballguy
The dealership I work at is one of them that is not. Good luck getting a New vehicle unless you order and wait though. GM has been very stingy with giving us allocations for new units to be built and 95% of the vehicles we are ordering are sold. Every once in a while we will get a transport in that has a couple unsold units on it, but the vast majority are already sold when the transport brings them.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Personally I don’t care if I have to wait a year. Whats this process like? Ive never done a “preorder”. Do I just go and plop 5-10k down for a preorder?
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snellman
Footballguy
I don't think my dealership is requiring a deposit but I am not sure (I am just a lowly Service Manager lol). You come in and build the vehicle they way you want, when we receive an allocation for the model you are looking to buy, we will place the order with your specs to be built. When the vehicle is delivered to the dealership, you are contacted and come in to fill out the paperwork and purchase. Have a trade is a bit of an issue because it is hard to give a trade value not knowing how long it will take to build and receive the vehicle and how many miles are put on the trade in during that time. I don't think we are requiring a deposit because if the vehicle comes in and you don't want it, it won't take very long to find someone that does in the current market.
Nugget
Footballguy
I don’t think Nissan let’s you put in an order. We had deposits on a Nissan Leaf in 3 states and one came in after 2.5 months. They let us buy it at MSRP. Nissan also suspended their friends and neighbor programs (VPP).
Nugget
Footballguy
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Told today Mazda isn’t even taking orders right now
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
I might be in the market for either an Infiniti, Acura, or Volvo SUV (maybe 3 row). Am I in for a rude awakening?
Judge Smails
Footballguy
I’m in the market now. Wondering if waiting for Memorial Day will make any difference. Heard not many deals coming anyway. With the huge markup on used I just don’t see value there. Thinking new without paying over MRSP is the way to go. Looking at Tesla S, Audi 6 or 8, or Mercedes. Probably BMW too though my experience with a supposedly ultra reliable 540i wasn’t great. Hate buying a car in a sellers market but I don’t have much choice. Starting a job where I’ll have to drive to locations and be meeting with physicians so can’t have a junker
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
I bought an Infiniti QX60, Sensory Package a few weeks ago. When I say bought, I mean I added my name to a 40+ person waitlist and was told 4-6 months for delivery of the vehicle. Price at MSRP at that time, regardless of paying cash or financing.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
This is good news to me. I dont mind waiting. I just dont want to pay over MSRP.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Average U.S. vehicle is now a record 12.2 years old
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Ha. Mines 26 years old. That’s like brand new.
FatMax
Member
My wife totaled her Nissan Murano in October. After researching and driving, she settled on a Highlander as her next car and decided what options she wanted. At that point, I took over the buying. I called every Toyota dealer within a 100 mile radius that had the one she was looking for, and asked just one question. Do you have a dealer markup, and if so, how much?
Every one of them except one (where we ended up purchasing the car) had a marked between 5-15k. And none were willing to budge. Crazy time to buy a car.
Every one of them except one (where we ended up purchasing the car) had a marked between 5-15k. And none were willing to budge. Crazy time to buy a car.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
Audi dealer in town would not take orders and said they have no idea what their allotment will be nor the timing. Unreal. Bought a 2019 A6 coming off a lease with 20K miles on it. Pristine. Zero negotiating. Wouldn’t move a dollar. I walked out and they let me walk l, then went and looked at 2 other cars that weren’t as good. Called the guy back from the other dealer and said I’ll take it. Full price. Picking it up tomorrow.
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
My daughter just graduated from college and needs to get a new car. She has a job as a teacher - contract, decent credit (675 Experian which Chase calls "good"). The issue is that with inventories low, she's getting the runaround on the cars she wants. Either huge markups (hyundai - we're talking 20% over MSRP) or today Subaru guy told her the car is coming and she'd have to deposit $1,000 to "hold" it. No commitment on APR or out the door cost (need to wait until the car shows up on their lot - even though it's advertised already on Autotrader). She asked if she gets her money back if she doesn't end up liking the terms and his answer was yes if there's a medical emergency or death or something. Otherwise it would be up to his manager??
I told her to get to her bank and see if she can get a preapproval so she doesn't have to negotiate rates, and negotiate price once the car actually shows up. Any other suggestions for getting a decent deal on a new car in her situation? It's crazy to me that she knows exactly what she wants and what it should cost, and she can't even seem to get close to a deal without red flags popping up everywhere.
I told her to get to her bank and see if she can get a preapproval so she doesn't have to negotiate rates, and negotiate price once the car actually shows up. Any other suggestions for getting a decent deal on a new car in her situation? It's crazy to me that she knows exactly what she wants and what it should cost, and she can't even seem to get close to a deal without red flags popping up everywhere.
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MTskibum
Footballguy
You should be able to get a Subaru at msrp if you order it, but it does depend on the dealership.
I am not sure how many Subaru dealerships are in the DFW area, but you may need to check as far away as san Antonio.
My brother in law had to drive to Denver to get his new wrx at msrp and he lives in Albuquerque.
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moleculo
Footballguy
FairWarning
Footballguy
moleculo
Footballguy
I recently bought a Toyota 4runner. In Charlotte (my general area), there are 4 Toyota dealers: two on this list charging markups and 2 that do not. Behind Charlotte, I found around 20 other dealers within 150 miles or so that do not.
It just takes a bit of legwork. I used markups.org to eliminate any MSRP dealers from consideration.
FairWarning
Footballguy
The car lots are 25% full here, mainly used also. It can be done, but it’s a lot more work now. I think the dealers selling at under list are few and far between when you are away from a metro area.
moleculo
Footballguy
I don't think you can find under list but at list - they are out there. It just takes some legwork...and getting out of the metro area certainly helps too.
Is it worth a few thousand to drive a couple hours? I think so. Hell, I would fly 1/2 way across the country if the savings were there.
moleculo
Footballguy
If I were a manufacturer, I would be raising prices by $5k-$10k across the board in 2023, especially hybrids.
- used cars are going for more than new cars
- some dealers are charging quite a bit over MSRP anyways
- inflation is a ready-made excuse (and not exactly baseless)
moleculo
Footballguy
Below was my process for car shopping -
TL/DR: I was picky and did my shopping completely via the internet, which is not as easy as it should be.
As expensive as new cars are these days, I wanted something that I will be happy with for 20 years. I bought my last truck in 2005 and only got rid of it because the transmission broke twice - I wasn't going to replace it a second time. That means, I am not the kind of guy who needs a new vehicle every 5 years or so, so I might as well get exactly what I want, including trim and color. I settled on a Toyota 4runner, TRD off-road premium, in blue, with minimal other add-on features. This process would have been much easier if I was willing to settle for white, silver, grey or black, or if I was willing to pay thousands extra for things like running boards or blacked out logos and wheels.
I poked around some other forums for info on how this works these days. On 4runners.com, I found a link listing every Toyota dealer in the country. I narrowed that down to dealers within 100 miles of me, and filtered that list to exclude anyone charging over MSRP. I was left with about 20 dealers.
I quickly learned that dealers don't have what they show on their web page. The vehicles they list are probably pre-sold, if they even exist. Lots are empty, but they can't exactly that their web pages be empty, can they? You can't trust the web pages for availability at all - you have to work with an actual dealer.
I went on toyota.com and built my vehicle. At the end of the process, you can email your build to your local dealer (based on your zip code). I changed my zip code so I could send my build to all 20 of these dealers. This process puts you in contact with the internet sales specialist at each dealership, and not a typical lot guy. The internet guys are more tech savvy and capable of working with you over email. I specifically left my phone number and address blank for this step - I want communication only over email until we are close to a deal, and I didn't want to be ignored because I'm not local.
I suppose I should mention that I made a new email address for this process - I used protonmail.com. That gave me a separate app that would alert me immediately if something popped up, but also I can throw it away when I'm done with this.
I got a ton of responses of dealers asking when I can come in and take a look. Ugh, no, just tell me if you have exactly what I want. I got a lot of , "would you consider this truck that is completely different?", "We just got this used vehicle that doesn't match your requirements. When can you come in and take a look?" "Wouldn't you prefer we text you?" I get it. Dealers jobs is to get you to close, and the easiest way to do that is get you on property and appeal to emotion, and they can only sell what they have.
Email only made it a lot easier to cut through all of that. It takes some time. Eventually I found some dealers willing to do a "custom order", but I later learned that really means they will take my deposit and try to do a dealer swap with no target date. This could end up being a 6-12 month endeavor, but they would never say that.
After a week or so of that, I figured out that all of the dealers I had communicated with are in the same sales region. If they are going to do dealer swaps, they are all competing from the same pool. So I opened up my search to include Tennessee and Virginia, both in different sales territories, just because they have different pools to swap with.
Finally I found what I was looking for: a dealer in Virginia had an unclaimed allocation of exactly what I want, on a freighter inbound from Japan. It was maybe 6 weeks out from being on the lot. A little back and forth, I was even able to get them to knock $500 off, and I put down my deposit. This is the only opportunity you have to negotiate so be careful here.
The dealer wanted to tack on $800 for sanitizing due to COVID. I get it - they are using whatever tricks they can to make money. I told them that we didn't need that because COVID was over and he knocked it down to $300. Ugh. I hate these games but it's better than the $2500 "market adjustment" other dealers were asking. And I got it all in writing. Toyota actually raised the MSRP by $350 between this stage and when I took delivery so having this documented saved me more.
Closing was a pain in the ###. The finance people pressured me to use their bank, and then the hard sell on extended warranty, paint warranty and lifetime service contracts. It was about $10k they tried to upsell me on. No thanks.
It was a big hassle and it's not easy but it is possible to find what you want at MSRP. You just have to wade thru the typical dealer BS.
TL/DR: I was picky and did my shopping completely via the internet, which is not as easy as it should be.
As expensive as new cars are these days, I wanted something that I will be happy with for 20 years. I bought my last truck in 2005 and only got rid of it because the transmission broke twice - I wasn't going to replace it a second time. That means, I am not the kind of guy who needs a new vehicle every 5 years or so, so I might as well get exactly what I want, including trim and color. I settled on a Toyota 4runner, TRD off-road premium, in blue, with minimal other add-on features. This process would have been much easier if I was willing to settle for white, silver, grey or black, or if I was willing to pay thousands extra for things like running boards or blacked out logos and wheels.
I poked around some other forums for info on how this works these days. On 4runners.com, I found a link listing every Toyota dealer in the country. I narrowed that down to dealers within 100 miles of me, and filtered that list to exclude anyone charging over MSRP. I was left with about 20 dealers.
I quickly learned that dealers don't have what they show on their web page. The vehicles they list are probably pre-sold, if they even exist. Lots are empty, but they can't exactly that their web pages be empty, can they? You can't trust the web pages for availability at all - you have to work with an actual dealer.
I went on toyota.com and built my vehicle. At the end of the process, you can email your build to your local dealer (based on your zip code). I changed my zip code so I could send my build to all 20 of these dealers. This process puts you in contact with the internet sales specialist at each dealership, and not a typical lot guy. The internet guys are more tech savvy and capable of working with you over email. I specifically left my phone number and address blank for this step - I want communication only over email until we are close to a deal, and I didn't want to be ignored because I'm not local.
I suppose I should mention that I made a new email address for this process - I used protonmail.com. That gave me a separate app that would alert me immediately if something popped up, but also I can throw it away when I'm done with this.
I got a ton of responses of dealers asking when I can come in and take a look. Ugh, no, just tell me if you have exactly what I want. I got a lot of , "would you consider this truck that is completely different?", "We just got this used vehicle that doesn't match your requirements. When can you come in and take a look?" "Wouldn't you prefer we text you?" I get it. Dealers jobs is to get you to close, and the easiest way to do that is get you on property and appeal to emotion, and they can only sell what they have.
Email only made it a lot easier to cut through all of that. It takes some time. Eventually I found some dealers willing to do a "custom order", but I later learned that really means they will take my deposit and try to do a dealer swap with no target date. This could end up being a 6-12 month endeavor, but they would never say that.
After a week or so of that, I figured out that all of the dealers I had communicated with are in the same sales region. If they are going to do dealer swaps, they are all competing from the same pool. So I opened up my search to include Tennessee and Virginia, both in different sales territories, just because they have different pools to swap with.
Finally I found what I was looking for: a dealer in Virginia had an unclaimed allocation of exactly what I want, on a freighter inbound from Japan. It was maybe 6 weeks out from being on the lot. A little back and forth, I was even able to get them to knock $500 off, and I put down my deposit. This is the only opportunity you have to negotiate so be careful here.
The dealer wanted to tack on $800 for sanitizing due to COVID. I get it - they are using whatever tricks they can to make money. I told them that we didn't need that because COVID was over and he knocked it down to $300. Ugh. I hate these games but it's better than the $2500 "market adjustment" other dealers were asking. And I got it all in writing. Toyota actually raised the MSRP by $350 between this stage and when I took delivery so having this documented saved me more.
Closing was a pain in the ###. The finance people pressured me to use their bank, and then the hard sell on extended warranty, paint warranty and lifetime service contracts. It was about $10k they tried to upsell me on. No thanks.
It was a big hassle and it's not easy but it is possible to find what you want at MSRP. You just have to wade thru the typical dealer BS.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I'm curious if anyone here has used an auto broker or "car buying concierge" service?moleculo said:
The idea of figuring out what sales territory I'm in and figuring out what dealerships are claiming what they have in stock even when they don't sounds exhausting to me. Frankly, I purchase a car so infrequently I don't really want to learn some elaborate system that will likely be completely different in 15 years when I want to purchase a car again. Lastly, once they do actually have what I want in stock and even after we have agreed on a price I don't want to hassle with what add-on's I have to have, or should have, or how I should finance it.
It just seem like someone dialed into the process could save someone thousands of dollars and maybe most importantly a ton of time/effort. Just curious if someone has experience with some sort of service that MAYBE saved them a little bit of money but probably saved a ton of time/effort in the haggling department to get exactly what they wanted.
brettdj
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
Thanks for posting this.moleculo said:
I need a car soon-ish, and this seems like a good plan of attack
Jayrod
Footballguy
Ugh.
My son is turning 16 next month and I've been poking around but have not done enough leg work to get what I want figured out.
We really want him to use my car when school starts (2015 VW CC with 150K miles) and I get a new truck. This has been the plan for 2 years now, but wasn't something I wanted to pull the trigger on before he turned 16 (in hindsight, I would have been better off financially to just add the payment and let the truck or car sit there unused...not sure I could have predicted that, though).
I was leaning toward buying new, but am getting priced out unless I want to go very bottom of the line.
This is becoming a very expensive Summer between inflation, our vacations and now the insanity of buying a new vehicle.
My son is turning 16 next month and I've been poking around but have not done enough leg work to get what I want figured out.
We really want him to use my car when school starts (2015 VW CC with 150K miles) and I get a new truck. This has been the plan for 2 years now, but wasn't something I wanted to pull the trigger on before he turned 16 (in hindsight, I would have been better off financially to just add the payment and let the truck or car sit there unused...not sure I could have predicted that, though).
I was leaning toward buying new, but am getting priced out unless I want to go very bottom of the line.
This is becoming a very expensive Summer between inflation, our vacations and now the insanity of buying a new vehicle.
Chris B.
Footballguy
I had a neighbor trade in her old Acura SUV in for a brand new model for free essentially.
So I messed around on KBB and found my 4 year old car was "worth" $5,000 more than when I bought it new. I even got contacted by a 2 used car dealers in my area asking to bring it in for an inspections and cash purchase. Unfortunately, a new 2022 version of my car is still about $5,000 (after all taxes and fees) more than my current car, so I think I'll just stay put for now.
So I messed around on KBB and found my 4 year old car was "worth" $5,000 more than when I bought it new. I even got contacted by a 2 used car dealers in my area asking to bring it in for an inspections and cash purchase. Unfortunately, a new 2022 version of my car is still about $5,000 (after all taxes and fees) more than my current car, so I think I'll just stay put for now.
massraider
Footballguy
I get that it's a pain in the butt to do some of this legwork, but saving 5-10 grand+ is worth the legwork, no?
moleculo
Footballguy
In my opinion, absolutely. The legwork is more about availability though. Its a lot easier if you are less picky. Had I wanted a black, silver, or grey 4runner, and was open to different trim packages, it would have been much easier.
My experience is only about 1/2 of the dealers are charging over MSRP - it's easy enough to weed them out. After that, it comes down to availability and what other crap they want to include (lifetime service contracts, undercarriage treatment, nitrogen in the tires, etc), and dealer fees.
Hmm, that surprised me a bit, but I guess the prices have made more people say nope, I’m not paying $30k for a 5 year old Civic. My son’s cars are 11/12 but mine is 7 and my wife’s is almost 2. I guess we do average 8, but honestly, I’d say we are on the old side for our area. Hopefully, all will keep going strong for a while. Have a third son so my car will likely go to him or my oldest, since it’s the nicest but I think I’d like to get a wee bit longer with only 1 payment.
I’d be interested to know what the breakdown is for different areas.
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