harvin vs. crabtree (1 Viewer)

[finfansteve]

now that crabtree has signed and is actually playing I watched the SF game last week and thought that he actually looks like a player that could have a decent career (I gave him no chance at that in the preseason with his holdout and attitude and all). Harvin has had a nice start to his career also at wr but I think his greater value actually is at special teams rather than wr- especially after favre retires. Anyone care to venture a guess which wr will be more productive over their careers? I think it will be crabtree because of his size advantage over harvin (I see another devin hester in harvin) and the fact that crabtree will have singletary riding him to become the best player he can be.

Any thoughts?

 

[Sudoku_in_the_Bathtub]

I'd take Crabtree over any other rookie WR. [fantasy]

Harvin could be the more valuable football player if they keep him on returns.

 

[thehornet]

My guess is Crabtree. He is an unreal talent. If SF gets a real QB, he's gonna be a Top 5 WR option for years.

I don't have anything against Harvin, in fact, I actually think he is an exceptional talent too.

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

I think if you took either in this years rookie drafts you'll be happy for a long time. Personally, I like Crabtree to be the better fantasy player going forward. Despite the holdout, I also think Crabtree will be the better citizen. i.e. Harvin has more character issues that may surface down the road.

 

[baldbird]

I think maclin will be the best from this years draft. I am a eagles fan but I believe Mac has the best suporting cast around him to help him thrive.

 

[basher]

Crabtree. Harvin is an exceptional return man now but is still really raw on the offensive side of the ball. It will probably take him another year or two to become a consistent player at minimum. By that point in time Crabtree should be in the top 10 at his position and movin' on up

 

[SSOG]

now that crabtree has signed and is actually playing I watched the SF game last week and thought that he actually looks like a player that could have a decent career (I gave him no chance at that in the preseason with his holdout and attitude and all). Harvin has had a nice start to his career also at wr but I think his greater value actually is at special teams rather than wr- especially after favre retires. Anyone care to venture a guess which wr will be more productive over their careers? I think it will be crabtree because of his size advantage over harvin (I see another devin hester in harvin) and the fact that crabtree will have singletary riding him to become the best player he can be.

Any thoughts?

Devin Hester? You mean the same Devin Hester who played WR for the first time in his career in 2007, and who is quietly on pace for 80/1100 receiving this year despite getting injured in the first quarter of one of his games (on pace for 90/1250/7 in the games where he doesn't get hurt in the first quarter)? I can think of a lot worse things for a WR to be than another Devin Hester.I think the answer depends on the question. Better fantasy career? Crabtree. Better NFL career? Harvin.

 

[JuniorNB]

[Al Davis] You guys are all missing the obvious choice. [Al Davis/}

 

[doubletrouble]

Nicks b/c Manning is young and will/should be around for years to come...the others above don't have that with their current QBs...IMO

 

[SSOG]

Nicks b/c Manning is young and will/should be around for years to come...the others above don't have that with their current QBs...IMO

I hardly think that Eli Manning is a positive at QB. Sure, he's not a negative, either, but it's not like I'm going to bump up the NYG receivers because they're playing with a guy who's only topped 3400 yards once in his career, and who has never topped 24 TDs.

 

[Fallerjw]

Is this a poahl?

 

[Knobs]

I think maclin will be the best from this years draft. I am a eagles fan but I believe Mac has the best suporting cast around him to help him thrive.

You're not thinking long term. Generally, talent wins out. IMO Crabtree and Harvin are both significantly more talented than Maclin.Situations can change very quickly.

 

[RockHard]

There is nothing that Crabtree does better than Harvin.

 

[Multiple Scores]

There is nothing that Crabtree does better than Harvin.

Better hands, better routes, my ball mentality, leaping ability. You obviously didn't watch Crabtree during his two years at TT.

 

[todisco1]

Love them both. Love Crabtree a bit better. Nicks should absolutely be in this conversation though, and you could argue Maclin as well.

 

[RockHard]

There is nothing that Crabtree does better than Harvin.

Better hands, better routes, my ball mentality, leaping ability. You obviously didn't watch Crabtree during his two years at TT.

I completely disagree, I wont belabor the point because the items your mentioned are nearly impossible to quantify.

 

[Knobs]

There is nothing that Crabtree does better than Harvin.

Better hands, better routes, my ball mentality, leaping ability. You obviously didn't watch Crabtree during his two years at TT.

Rock Hard started a thread in the offseason stating why Crabtree would be a bust. So despite him looking fantastic thus far, don't expect him to change his tune.

 

[Multiple Scores]

There is nothing that Crabtree does better than Harvin.

Better hands, better routes, my ball mentality, leaping ability. You obviously didn't watch Crabtree during his two years at TT.

Rock Hard started a thread in the offseason stating why Crabtree would be a bust. So despite him looking fantastic thus far, don't expect him to change his tune.

Good to know.

 

[RockHard]

There is nothing that Crabtree does better than Harvin.

Better hands, better routes, my ball mentality, leaping ability. You obviously didn't watch Crabtree during his two years at TT.

Rock Hard started a thread in the offseason stating why Crabtree would be a bust. So despite him looking fantastic thus far, don't expect him to change his tune.

I will give Crabtree credit for contributing right away, considering that he missed all of training camp and the first few games of the season.

 

[thehornet]

There is nothing that Crabtree does better than Harvin.

X

 

[CravenM]

I think if you took either in this years rookie drafts you'll be happy for a long time. Personally, I like Crabtree to be the better fantasy player going forward. Despite the holdout, I also think Crabtree will be the better citizen. i.e. Harvin has more character issues that may surface down the road.

Really Doctor? Do tell...

 

[SSOG]

I think if you took either in this years rookie drafts you'll be happy for a long time. Personally, I like Crabtree to be the better fantasy player going forward. Despite the holdout, I also think Crabtree will be the better citizen. i.e. Harvin has more character issues that may surface down the road.

Really Doctor? Do tell...

He smoked pot, and one time in high school he got frustrated at his coach.

 

[Instinctive]

If I am in an NFL team's management, and I get to have any one of this year's rookie WRs for my team...

Crabtree

Nicks

Harvin

Actually in that order. I think that Crabtree has the big ups, the bigtime hands, the playmaker mentality, and is an extremely hard worker. Nicks is also a hard worker, and he has really soft hands. Harvin can be electric, but IMO, I can find a guy who is very siutable on KR easier than I can get a guy who will be a difference maker at the WR position for years to come.

And not a rookie...but I really like Kelley Washington too. With his great hands and size, smarts, work ethic, and a young QB who will only get better, he could develop into something special as well

 

[mystykoekaki]

There is nothing that Crabtree does better than Harvin.

Exactly.

 

[Fallerjw]

There is nothing that Crabtree does better than Harvin.

X

 

[CravenM]

I think if you took either in this years rookie drafts you'll be happy for a long time. Personally, I like Crabtree to be the better fantasy player going forward. Despite the holdout, I also think Crabtree will be the better citizen. i.e. Harvin has more character issues that may surface down the road.

Really Doctor? Do tell...

He smoked pot, and one time in high school he got frustrated at his coach.

No - that was Randy Moss

 

[RockHard]

I think if you took either in this years rookie drafts you'll be happy for a long time. Personally, I like Crabtree to be the better fantasy player going forward. Despite the holdout, I also think Crabtree will be the better citizen. i.e. Harvin has more character issues that may surface down the road.

Really Doctor? Do tell...

He smoked pot, and one time in high school he got frustrated at his coach.

You left out the part about the state of Virginia preventing him from participation in high school athletics part of his senior year and getting into fights with college teamates Chris Rainey & Jarrod Fayson.

 

[cvnpoka]

but I really like Kelley Washington too. With his great hands and size, smarts, work ethic, and a young QB who will only get better, he could develop into something special as well

hes like 30.

 

[WFR]

I just traded in a 12-team non-ppr dynasty league:

Maclin + 1st rd rookie pick (going to be low as I plan on finishing in top-3)

for

Crabtree + 2nd

I think Crabtree has physical skills that the others do not. I also like bigger WR's (AJ, VJax, Britt).

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

I think if you took either in this years rookie drafts you'll be happy for a long time. Personally, I like Crabtree to be the better fantasy player going forward. Despite the holdout, I also think Crabtree will be the better citizen. i.e. Harvin has more character issues that may surface down the road.

Really Doctor? Do tell...

He smoked pot, and one time in high school he got frustrated at his coach.

You left out the part about the state of Virginia preventing him from participation in high school athletics part of his senior year and getting into fights with college teamates Chris Rainey & Jarrod Fayson.

Despite his accomplishments, Harvin's high school athletic career was not without controversy. He served a one-game suspension early in his junior football season for unsportsmanlike conduct. As a senior, he was suspended for the final two regular-season games after making contact with an official and using inappropriate language during a game against First Colonial High School. In basketball, Harvin and a Green Run High School player were involved in a scuffle that prompted referees to stop the game with time remaining on the clock. As a result of this and prior incidents, Harvin was suspended from athletic competition by the Virginia High School League (VHSL). The suspension prevented Harvin from competing in the VHSL Group AAA State Indoor Track Meet at George Mason University that year. His loss, after becoming the first athlete to win five state track titles in the same meet during his junior year, was a huge blow to his high school track team.[6]From ESPN draft guide:

Extremely competitive when motivated, but there are major concerns regarding his ability to consistently self-motivate and his overall character in general. According to multiple NFL scouts, however; there are concerns regarding his 'trust issues', 'lack of leadership qualities' and that he lives in 'Percy-World'.

Numerous teams also reportedly took him off their draft board due to character concerns.

I'm not saying he can't grow up. He may very well. When comparing him to Crabtree or Nicks however, I think this is something that needs to be factored in.

 

[SSOG]

I'm not saying he can't grow up. He may very well. When comparing him to Crabtree or Nicks however, I think this is something that needs to be factored in.

When comparing him to Nicks? Sure. When comparing him to Crabtree? Hmmm... aloof, immature, lives in his own little world outside of reality... sounds like some other rookie WR in the league right now...

 

[FunkyPlutos]

They are totally different players. Crabtree can be a true WR1, in the sense that he can play everywhere - slot or outside and be effective. Harvin is best suited for the slot. They are both going to have great careers but do so in different ways.

I think many people underestimate how well Harvin runs routes. He kind of got that rep from people saying he didn't play full time WR at Florida, but all indications from the Vikings are that he is an exceptional route runner.

It is tough to compare them because they bring different talent sets to the table.

 

[ScottyFargo]

I think if you took either in this years rookie drafts you'll be happy for a long time. Personally, I like Crabtree to be the better fantasy player going forward. Despite the holdout, I also think Crabtree will be the better citizen. i.e. Harvin has more character issues that may surface down the road.

Really Doctor? Do tell...

He smoked pot, and one time in high school he got frustrated at his coach.

You left out the part about the state of Virginia preventing him from participation in high school athletics part of his senior year and getting into fights with college teamates Chris Rainey & Jarrod Fayson.

Despite his accomplishments, Harvin's high school athletic career was not without controversy. He served a one-game suspension early in his junior football season for unsportsmanlike conduct. As a senior, he was suspended for the final two regular-season games after making contact with an official and using inappropriate language during a game against First Colonial High School. In basketball, Harvin and a Green Run High School player were involved in a scuffle that prompted referees to stop the game with time remaining on the clock. As a result of this and prior incidents, Harvin was suspended from athletic competition by the Virginia High School League (VHSL). The suspension prevented Harvin from competing in the VHSL Group AAA State Indoor Track Meet at George Mason University that year. His loss, after becoming the first athlete to win five state track titles in the same meet during his junior year, was a huge blow to his high school track team.[6]From ESPN draft guide:

Extremely competitive when motivated, but there are major concerns regarding his ability to consistently self-motivate and his overall character in general. According to multiple NFL scouts, however; there are concerns regarding his 'trust issues', 'lack of leadership qualities' and that he lives in 'Percy-World'.

Numerous teams also reportedly took him off their draft board due to character concerns.

I'm not saying he can't grow up. He may very well. When comparing him to Crabtree or Nicks however, I think this is something that needs to be factored in.

A lot of teams made a mistake in passing on Percy Harvin.

 

[ScottyFargo]

“Once I got a chance to see him in person, it didn’t take long to say, ‘This guy’s pretty good.’ I told him from day one, ‘Hey, you’re not a rookie. Don’t play like it. Don’t buy into that, ‘he’s going to make rookie mistakes,’ because I don’t. I don’t buy into it.’”

In addition to speed, elusiveness and ability to break tackles, Favre pointed out that Harvin has a “sixth sense’ as well, and all of those traits coming together are what have allowed Harvin to be this impactful.

Favre even pointed to players such as Harvin as reasons why his interception total this year is lower. He cited the 51-yard TD pass he had to Harvin at Lambeau Field as an example.

Also, Favre believes Harvin has psychic powers. I don't know if anyone's said that about Crabtree yet, or if anyone would care if Smith or Hill said it.

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

The problem with knuckleheads is you don't know when they are going to act like a knucklehead. Minnesota invested a first round pick and millions of dollars into this guy. My guess is they are happy with what they have gotten SO FAR. Will the rest of the teams in the league think they made a mistake if he gets arrested this offseason? How about just goes to strike two in the drug program? (He's already got strike one).

I'm sure all the NFL scouts saw Percy's talent. We can all see that on the NFL field right now too. What we don't have any clue about is what role motivation issues, drug issues, anger issues, authority issues or Percy World issues will play in his career.

 

[Dancing Bear]

I think that this is a more difficult issue than being addressed so far for two reasons.

a) How they are used ...

Harvin can impact the game in more ways today than Crabtree. If Minnesota continues to keep him as a return man and use him regularly as a Slash, then as long as he stays healthy he will have a better career than Crabtree.

If they take away his return duties and limit his touches then I don't think he can compete against Crabtree WR vs WR.

b) Who is throwing to them ...

Favre will be a 1 and done QB. After the Vikings sputter in the playoffs this year ... Brett will finally go off to Mississippi and retire for good. Who replaces him? T. Jackson? This will KILL Harvin's future.

S. Hill or A. Smith for Crabtree? To me neither of these guys is too exciting a prospect ... Crabtree could see a pant-load of double-teams and many, many games like last week against Tennessee.